Rant

[undergroundpanther]

Why do christians make so many excuses.

I cannot deal with people that claim they are "good" while having faith in a book that supports genocide, torture,rape, slavery,murder,tyranny,women;s inequality, and homophobia as holy word to not be questioned.


I have been really harmed by christianity by the religion(following it) and by the people(followers).These deluded people will rush to Defend their RELIGION rather than sympathize with me,a human being and ask themselves what about their god,their bible if it is so holy permits christians to hurt people in the name of their god and NOT see the error and moral relativism in it?

No they don't ask why is there such abuses allowed by their god.. they just give me a lame line about how they are an exception and that not all christians are bad.I feel that if they let that *book* be their moral guide they *are * irresponsible and they shirking the things that book inspires in people in their 'faith'. These christians are fooling themselves ,too busy defending their 'faith' from all hurt by it,telling the,selves they are not bad people as they go on defending a bad religion...all while real people are getting hurt by other real people in the real world over these "beliefs" that only reside in books and minds..And these"good christians" will NOT own the bad effects of their religion if it condemns their belief system.I gotta ask would abortion,stem cells or homophobia be such a socially heated issue and excuse to harm people if there was no OT NT or no bible? No christianity?

Why can't these "believer" people see this disconnect in their thinking and admit their bible is wrong,it inspires homophobia,and gender inequality..And it inspires this because it's all written there, by their god who claims it wrote it,The bible says it's word is god itself..and the bible claims this god is the sole dominator/creator of reality,a book demanding obedience and "faith" out of every follower and this god says it never changes.
This is all so FUCKED UP!!and they don't even SEE it! And this bible is rationalizing itself to believers,the belief that motivates believers is hurting real people now, and it hurts me,and it has hurt people all though history too.

When will it STOP?

Why can't decent people give up the bible habit ? Why can't they not spread it around and force their kids to swallow it when they are too Young to understand it? Why can't these 'good people' do what the roman empire already did to that book,Why not re edit out the evil parts of the book and get rid of the moral inconsistencies so people who believe as they do,who are bad hearted and around in their churches cannot use the bible the church and it's pretense to spiritual authority to justify abuses? Because the bible itself DOES justify abuses as it denies it at the same time. It's enough to make anyone morally confused.

Check this thread...I feel like Christians are brain damaged..They just don't GET IT. I want to scream!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3833616

[beam me up scottie]

1. I've got another question,

why is this still accepted?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x21558

I LOVE your rants, by the way.

[NAO]

2. Here's my RANT and my proposed solution - A Freethought Revival

Religious Superstition Threatens to Destroy Civilization (Again)

The Religious Right is really OUT OF CONTROL and is exerting a greater and greater influence on our society. They are flexing their muscles in the political process, the economy and our entire culture.

Let us remember that the first time Christianity spread rapidly and gained control of the government (from 200 - 500 AD) it resulted in the utter collapse of Western Civilization and ushered in 1,000 years of darkness, superstition, ignorance and suffering.

Finally, after a millennium of Darkness, mankind began to see the Dawn of The Age of Reason and The Enlightenment. Humanity recovered some dignity, science was freed from the chains of religious superstition and real progress began.

The Constitution of the United States of America was one of the crowning achievements of The Enlightenment, being a document for the Establishment of a government that did NOT MAKE ONE SINGLE REFERENCE TO "GOD". With the establishment of the United States, government as well as science was freed from the domination of religious superstition.

Now, every day in the news there is some story about how the religionists are exerting their influence. Radical Clerics like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell get air time on network news. Religionists are organizing and boycotting businesses that do not adhere to their version of personal morality.

The specter of religious superstition is once again casting a frightening shadow over our world. The ghosts and demons of the Dark Ages, once believed to be banished forever by Reason, are again haunting our culture. Christianity destroyed civilization once before - it could happen again.

Antidote to Fundamentalist Nut-Cases is a Revival of the Freethought Movement

I think what we need is a Freethought movement similar to what the US had around the turn of the 20th century. Robert Ingersoll was touring the country, lecturing on secularism and exposing the claims of revealed religion to be false. Unless something breaks the stranglehold of religious fundamentalism in the US - and in the world - I think we are going to continue the slide into Theocracy and destruction.

- Freethinkers could produce TV ads that exposed the claims of Christianity to be falsehoods.

- Freethinkers could form an 'anti-Gideons' and leave copies of Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason" and Robert Ingersoll's "Why I am Agnostic" in hotel rooms.

- Freethinkers produce tracts and pamphlets showing the contradictions in the Bible and exposing the rip-off of dozens of pagan beliefs and their incorporation into Christianity.

We could have a Second Enlightenment, a Second Age of Reason? We could re-secularize a world gone mad with religious superstition.

Robert Ingersoll's "Why I Am Agnostic"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/why_i_am_agnostic.html

Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

*****

From "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine (1795)

EVERY national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet; as if the way to God was not open to every man alike. Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.

When I am told that the Koran was written in Heaven, and brought to Mahomet by an angel, the account comes to near the same kind of hearsay evidence and second hand authority as the former. I did not see the angel myself, and therefore I have a right not to believe it. When also I am told that a woman, called the Virgin Mary, said, or gave out, that she was with child without any cohabitation with a man, and that her betrothed husband, Joseph, said that an angel told him so, I have a right to believe them or not: such a circumstance required a much stronger evidence than their bare word for it: but we have not even this; for neither Joseph nor Mary wrote any such matter themselves. It is only reported by others that they said so. It is hearsay upon hearsay, and I do not chose to rest my belief upon such evidence.

It is, however, not difficult to account for the credit that was given to the story of Jesus Christ being the Son of God. He was born when the heathen mythology had still some fashion and repute in the world, and that mythology had prepared the people for the belief of such a story. Almost all the extraordinary men that lived under the heathen mythology were reputed to be the sons of some of their gods. It was not a new thing at that time to believe a man to have been celestially begotten; the intercourse of gods with women was then a matter of familiar opinion. Their Jupiter, according to their accounts, had cohabited with hundreds; the story therefore had nothing in it either new, wonderful, or obscene; it was conformable to the opinions that then prevailed among the people called Gentiles, or mythologists, and it was those people only that believed it. The Jews, who had kept strictly to the belief of one God, and no more, and who had always rejected the heathen mythology, never credited the story.

It is curious to observe how the theory of what is called the Christian Church, sprung out of the tail of the heathen mythology. A direct incorporation took place in the first instance, by making the reputed founder to be celestially begotten. The trinity of gods that then followed was no other than a reduction of the former plurality, which was about twenty or thirty thousand. The statue of Mary succeeded the statue of Diana of Ephesus. The deification of heroes changed into the canonization of saints. The Mythologists had gods for everything; the Christian Mythologists had saints for everything. The church became as crowded with the one, as the pantheon had been with the other; and Rome was the place of both. The Christian theory is little else than the idolatry of the ancient mythologists, accommodated to the purposes of power and revenue; and it yet remains to reason and philosophy to abolish the amphibious fraud.

Consider a Freethought PAC to Run Attack Ads Exposing Religious Superstition on TV

I think what we need to counter this type of crap is a Freethought PAC - One that would run aggressive attack ads on TV. "Freethinkers for Truth", or something along those lines, to debunk religious superstition using 30 second TV attack ads. They could feature "Great Moments in American Secularism and Freethought" with "Great American Freethinkers" like Thomas Paine and Robert Ingersoll.

If TV stations would not run the ads, we could pull the same, "help, help, I'm being repressed!" crap that the fundies are always whining about. And of course the refusal to run the ads would draw attention to the works of Paine and Ingersoll, which are in themselves a very effective antidote to religious superstition.

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

Dominionism's Theocratic Designs and Radical Clerics

Fundamentalist Radical Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism". Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy. These Radical Clerics have developed and are executing a detailed plan to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy.

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 Presidential Election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing take place now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup: Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

The Religious Right - An Anti-American Terrorist Movement
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8816.htm

Evolve Fish - Your One-Stop Shop for Freethought Materials
http://www.evolvefish.com

[NMMNG]

3. Trying to rationalize with them is like banging your head against a wall

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

They have more excuses for their behavior (no matter how vile it may be) than Carter has Little Pills.

The worst evil of Fundamentalism is this; Its followers put words in a book before humanity. In doing so, they treat fellow humans abominably.

It is a sad commentary on humanity when people become outraged because somebody allegedly threw a holy book down a toilet, but cheer because a gay man was brutally murdered.

That is what fundamentalism does to humans.

:cry:

[highlonesome]

4. "The sabbath was made for man....

....not man for the sabbath"

That's the basic recurring theme of the New Testament and the root of what you're pointing out here.

But don't throw the baby out with the bath water and equate Christianity with the Evangelicals or Fundamentalists. They're a result of the fact of how Christianity was shaped 2000 years ago by a relatively small handfull of Christians and their flawed personalities -- Peter, Paul, Constantine -- and very specific issues and situations associated with the Christian communities in various places around the Mediterranian.

In it's beginning it was very diverse and much of it was VERY related to the Hellenistic Greek world and its philosophy that Jesus was surrounded by. In many ways, much of what Jesus preached was heavily influenced by Stoic philosophy and could even be viewed as a marriage between Hellenistic and Hebrew culture at the time.

For more on stoicism, Epictetus is a real good one to look into. He was born around 50 CE so was somewhat contemporary to the time of Jesus. Stoicism as a philosophical tradition, though, was already around 400 years old during the lifetime of Jesus.

[Pacifist Patriot]

5. The Bible has some nuggets of gold.

Unfortunately the cherry picking going on right now seems to be attached to the chaff, not the wheat. (Are you impressed with the number of mixed metaphors I just managed? LOL!)

One of the problems is with the fact that people tend to view the Bible as a cohesive entity rather than recognizing it for what it is. It's a library that spans centuries. It had it's last submission almost two thousand years ago and the world has changed a wee bit.

Biblical literalism is not only silly, it's dangerous.

[johnnomac]

6. I'm actually offended by this..... weird

First off, I'd just like to say that if you interpret it different ways, different parts of different books of the Bible written at different times by different people can say almost anything. If you know where to look, and can argue well, you can get the Bible to say whatever you want. Including "let's kill gays" or "let's kill Jews" (those are both easy ones) or "Thou shalt vote Republican". (Although I think I missed that chapter of Leviticus.)

You make a lot of random baseless accusations, such as "their bible is wrong" which are either going to be accepted by people who think like you, or exposed for what they are: baseless propaganda. You've been hurt by Christians, OK, who hasn't? I know I have. But Christians are not the point of Christianity. Nor, for that matter, is the Bible. Jesus is the point of Christianity. And there's a name you didn't mention in this rant, I notice.

I'm not going to deny that there is a lot of hypocrisy among Christians. Most -- if not all -- Christians at some point will judge, hate, draw lines and make ignorant statements. But hatred of anyone is not justifiable by Jesus' teachings. Nor is clinging to religion while not sympathizing with someone who is suffering.

While Christianity has caused a lot of suffering, it is responsible (albeit sometimes indirectly) for a lot of positive things, such as: innumerable works of art, the printing press, the modern understanding of genetics, charities, the fall of the Soviet Union, the end of child sacrifices in many parts of the world, the end of slavery in the US.... I could go on.

What you are doing here is seeing that many Christians cause harm to others, and declaring that what they believe is false and they are all mentally deficient. I'd like to let you know that I frequent a Christian Teen Forum on-line, and if a post this ignorant and offensive somehow made it through the moderators, it would be attacked from all sides, including the atheists/agnostics.

"Christians are brain damaged", eh? Well, over 80% of Americans are Christians. Say every single Bush voter was a Christian (unlikely, but let's say so for the sake of the argument). That would still mean that most of the 49% that voted for Kerry are brain damaged. Plus, you know, the people who actually ARE brain damaged.

[undergroundpanther]

7. The bible Christianity

Has gotten a free ride for two centuries,
Very little criticism very little debunking compared to other theories about the unknown,
The bible has an AWFUL effect on politics,it's history as a "moral guide" is deplorable.

It claims to maker new people of us and we still have the same old abusive tyrants as before.

Supernatural claims to be taken seriously need to show supernatural results. The bible has caused alot of harm.

Christians need to ask WHY Jesus failed to fix the world's issues.

And if they do not ask why,Than why does their book or belief system deserve this overblown respect at all?

[beam me up scottie]

8. Umm, it is you

who is spreading propaganda.

Christianity "is responsible (albeit sometimes indirectly) for a lot of positive things, such as: innumerable works of art, the printing press, the modern understanding of genetics, charities, the fall of the Soviet Union, the end of child sacrifices in many parts of the world, the end of slavery in the US..."

Here is your history lesson for today. (note: I am only using Wikipedia as a source but I can find innumerable others if you like)

*****
the printing press

From Wikipedia:

"The printing press is a mechanical device for printing many copies of a text on rectangular sheets of paper. First invented in China in 1041, the printing press as we know it today was invented in the West by a German goldsmith and eventual printer, Johann Gutenberg in the 1450s. This event has been awarded number 1 of the Top 100 Greatest Events of the Millennium by LIFE Magazine. Apart from Gutenberg, the Dutch Laurens Janszoon Coster has also been credited with this invention."
*****

the modern understanding of genetics

Also from Wikipedia:

History of genetics
"It was not until 1865 that Gregor Mendel first traced inheritance patterns of certain traits in pea plants and showed that they obeyed simple statistical rules. Although not all features show these patterns of Mendelian inheritance, his work acted as a proof that application of statistics to inheritance could be highly useful. Since that time many more complex forms of inheritance have been demonstrated.
From his statistical analysis Mendel defined a concept that he described as an allele, which was the fundamental unit of heredity.
The term allele as Mendel used it is nearly synonymous with the term gene, whilst the term allele now means a specific variant of a particular gene.
The significance of Mendel's work was not understood until early in the twentieth century, after his death, when his research was re-discovered by other scientists working on similar problems.
endel was unaware of the physical nature of the gene. We now know that genetic information is normally carried on DNA. (Certain viruses store their genetic information in RNA). Manipulation of DNA can in turn alter the inheritance and features of various organisms."
*****

the fall of the Soviet Union

Wikipedia again:

"Although reform stalled between 1964–1982, the generational shift gave new momentum for reform. Changing relations with the United States might also have been an impetus for reform. While it was Jimmy Carter who had officially ended the policy of Détente following Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, East-West tensions during the first term of U.S. President Ronald Reagan (1981–1985) reached levels not seen since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
By the time Mikhail Gorbachev ushered in the process that would lead to the political collapse of the Soviet Union and the resultant dismantling of the Soviet administrative command economy through his programs of glasnost (political openness), perestroika (economic restructuring), and uskorenie (speed-up of economic development) the Soviet economy suffered from both hidden inflation and pervasive supply shortages."
*****

the end of slavery in the US

Wikipedia:

"The tensions came to a head with the 1860 election of Abraham Lincoln, who was opposed to the expansion of slavery. Many in the South feared that the real intent of the Republicans was the abolition of slavery in states where it already existed, and that the sudden emancipation of 4 million slaves would be problematic. They also feared that the delicate balance of free states and slave states would be no more and that they would then be under the domination of industrial North with its preference for high tariffs on imported goods. The combination of these factors led the South to secede from the Union and thus began the American Civil War. During the Civil War (in 1863), Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which freed all slaves in the Confederate States of America (though not in states which had remained part of the Union). Following the war, the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was passed, which officially banned slavery and involuntary servitude in the United States."
*****

I have no idea what you are talking about when you claim christianity brought about "the end of child sacrifices in many parts of the world". You'll have to provide me with the details of that claim.

And although responsible for the charitable contributions of some of its members, christianity certainly did not invent charities.

What is and was expected in return for some of their charity is a whole other story...

I do not know who taught you that christianity was responsible for those things but I can take a wild guess.

[johnnomac]

9. Can I explain?

I definitely don't want to get into a heated argument here. I agree that "Christians" have done an incredible amount of harm throughout the course of history, especially during the Crusades, the Inquisition, and many other infamous events. However, the examples I listed were all ones which I believe I can back up.

The printing press: It was created chiefly because of the demand for Bibles. The Bible was (arguably still is) the most important book by far, and Gutenburg sought to create something which could mass-produce this book. Were it not for such high demand, it is likely that this invention would have been delayed, posibly by centuries. However, I admit this is conjecture... "If things were different, they wouldn't be the same."

The modern understanding of genetics: Do you know where and why Mendel performed his experiments? He was at a monastery. He did these experiments mainly because he had nothing better to do. Had that monastery not been there, he would have been out making a living as a carpenter or ironsmith or whatever. Again, this discovery would not have been made for much longer, possibly up until the current day.

The fall of the Soviet Union: OK, I admit this one is a stretch. The late Pope John Paul II was one of the major players in bringing this empire down. It would have more likely resulted in a war, had there not been such a predominant world power outside the US helping.

Oops! I have to go now, but I will finish the rest as soon as I can. Sorry for the broken post here!

[beam me up scottie]

10. By all means,

discussion is one of the primary reasons I joined DU.
I look at history from a secular viewpoint but I am certainly willing to give credit where it's due.
I look forward to hearing from you again.

[undergroundpanther]

11. Well

Would people be so anti gay and KILL people like me,if there was no anti gay propaganda coming from holy books ,pundits claiming the christian good guy badge and church pulpits?

Would abortion or birth control be such an issue if the church wasn't around to MAKE it one?

The church influences peoples LIVES before they have a chance,parents force their kids to go to church and kids are trusting of parents and preachers,and if you think this kind of pressure and brainwashing in the name of"tradition"has no impact on society I don't have a clue what you are thinking..

Without the bible or other authoritarian religions extorting people with thew threat of hell and sin..things might be very different,and I know my transgender friends wouldn't get rocks tossed at them for being"abominations".

The bible can motivate hatred in people,it really can.

[onager]

17. John Paul II brought down the Soviet Union?

:rofl:

MTV probably had more influence in bringing down the Soviet Union.

JP II is credited with helping to end Soviet influence in Poland, his native land. Well, as usual OVER-credited by his credulous fellow religionists. And it's helpful to remember that as soon as the Catholic anti-Commies assumed power, they immediately moved to end womn's reproductive rights and drag in the other medieval bullshit that usually follows Catholicism.

But in Russia, where the majority of religious believers belonged to the Orthodox church?

Josef Stalin's famous wisecrack comes to mind: "Fuck the Pope! How many divisions does he command?

[johnnomac]

13. Round 2

Hi, sorry again for the big break in the post. I'll get right back to the next point.

Ending slavery in the US: OK, now I admit that there were churches on either side of this argument. But if it were not for churches, the Black slaves would not have been allowed to even meet eachother. Their masters let them go to churches because it would improve their moral fibre or whatnot, but these churches helped them really unite. They gained a feeling of hope from hearing the Bible's messages of freedom.

While it is true that the Bible does not condemn slavery, Jesus and Paul never encountered the kind of slavery seen in the US. If slavery for life had been a common occurence 2000 years ago, it is likely it would have been condemned in the Bible. But one thing for sure is that the mistreatment of slaves is condemned. (Colossians 4:1) If this was not so, would there have been as much of an outcry against slavery? I doubt it.

Ending child sacrifices: Do you know why they still have parades for St Patrick in Ireland? He was one of the first Christian missionaries to what is now Ireland. Before he came there, the vast majority of the population followed (for lack of a better word) pagan rituals. Some of these involved human sacrifices. For example, if a man built a building, he would have to sacrifice his youngest son to appease the gods, so that the building would stand. It is precisely this kind of thing which Christian missionaries put an end to. Not only in Ireland, but in other parts of the world.

"I do not know who taught you that christianity was responsible for those things but I can take a wild guess."

I nearly laughed when I read that. You can guess if you like, but you'd probably be wrong. To be honest, I don't know excatly where I learned about the printing press or the child sacrifices. But the genetics one was from biology class (I'm still in high school), and the slavery one was from history class. The Soviet Union one was from CBC news. None of these sources are exactly notorious for right-wing evangelical propaganda.

[mongo]

14. Yeah, right.

Ending child sacrifices: Do you know why they still have parades for St Patrick in Ireland? He was one of the first Christian missionaries to what is now Ireland. Before he came there, the vast majority of the population followed (for lack of a better word) pagan rituals. Some of these involved human sacrifices. For example, if a man built a building, he would have to sacrifice his youngest son to appease the gods, so that the building would stand. It is precisely this kind of thing which Christian missionaries put an end to. Not only in Ireland, but in other parts of the world.


Are you getting your history lessons from Jack Chick by any chance? If you had some link, I'd love to see it. I could use a good laugh.

[beam me up scottie]

15. Hi Mongo.

I'm sure you're glad to see me, ha ha.

But I do agree with you that the child sacrifice myth is baloney trumped up to make the christians seem like saviors of the helpless, but I think our friend is a young person, if I'm not mistaken.

He does seem to be sincere so I'm going to post some educational links if you have any.

[mongo]

16. Here's what I could find on a quick search

Wikipedia entry on human sacrifice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice

But the info in there from Strabo is called into question here:

According to Strabo (64/63 B.C.E. - 21 C.E. at least) in his Geography (4.1.13):

The Romans put a stop both to these customs and to the ones connected with sacrifice and divination, as they were in conflict with our own ways: for example, they would strike a man who had been consecrated for sacrifice in the back with a sword, and make prophecies based on his death-spasms; and they would not sacrifice without the presence of the Druids. Other kinds of human sacrifices have been reported as well: some men they would shoot dead with arrows and impale in the temples; or they would construct a huge figure of straw and wood, and having thrown cattle and all manner of wild animals and humans into it, they would make a burnt offering of the whole thing (trans. by Benjamin Fortson, in Koch and Carey 1995, 18).

<snip>

Strabo's reference to arrows is especially intriguing; there's little or no archaeological data to support Celtic use of bows and arrows. Neither are mentiond in the medieval Irish tales, and the Irish words for bow and arrow are borrowed from Latin and Norse (Piggott 1975, 110).

I guess that there is some evidence supporting human sacrifice by the Celts, but not children and certainly not as prevalent as the poster infers.

Wish I had more time to look for stuff, but I have many fish to fry today.

Nice to see you too BMUS - its good to be somewhere we can agree.
:hug:

[beam me up scottie]

18. That's excellent.

I've got some sites bookmarked and I remember reading something else about the myth of child sacrifice in one of them.

I am hit and run posting this weekend too so I'll have to come back.

Hope you and yours are well Mongo, and believe it or not, I think we agree on a LOT of things.

:hug:

[Lilith Velkor]

19. The fall of the Soviet Union was so wonderful!

Gosh, they went from a poverty rate of 2% to 44%, and their population fell by 750,000! (Wikipedia, post-Soviet Russia)

Yessiree, nothing like having a Depression longer and worse than the "Great" one, and I'm sure the Russians are so grateful to the church for making it all possible!

:sarcasm:

[really annoyed]

20. People Cause Suffering, Not Religion

People just use religion to give their prejudices weight.

On the flip side, people do great things - whether or not they are "religious."

I think we should start giving credit to humanity, not to religion.

[Tux]

12. Er

I can't stand the Bible either since it promotes murder but what Jesus taught was decent. Try the Jefferson Bible. A little known Deist, Thomas Jefferson, took out all the paranormal events out of the gospels and rearranged them based on what all the gospels agreed upon. It's good reading. As a Deist, I like Jesus (not as much as Buddha) and he had neat ideas but what Jesus taught compared to fundie Christianity puts Jesus back on the cross to die again. Who here can say Jesus would hate gays, liberals, war protesters, non-Christians, etc?