UofL Neuroscientist So Close To Autism Breakthrough...

[bloom]

He's Helping Fund Research

"(LOUISVILLE) -- New findings could mean an incredible treatment for people with autism -- so incredible that a researcher at the University of Louisville is digging into his own pockets to make it happen as quickly as possible.

...The brain strands or minicolumns of autism patients have more cells, but they are narrower and more densely packed -- which can limit the brain's ability to send messages.

Dr. Casanova says that's because "there's not enough juice to actually power very long connections in the brain."

Examining tissues from a normal brain and the brain of an autistic person, Dr. Casanova explains the differences. "The more bluish staining actually means more cells present," he says.

More cells and smaller cells, making up tiny brain strands, or minicolumns. These minicolums take in information, process it and respond to it.

But the increased amount of cells works to increase other abilities -- like mathematics.

Armed with this knowledge, Dr. Casanova is ready to begin working on wiping out autism entirely. "Knowing the pathology, what is wrong with the brains of autistic individuals, opens the door to potential strategies that may actually even lead to a cure."

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=5146301


I suppose that people wouldn't get treatments unless they wanted them - but it seems odd to me that the article jumps from saying:

But the increased amount of cells works to increase other abilities -- like mathematics.

Armed with this knowledge, Dr. Casanova is ready to begin working on wiping out autism entirely.

I guess I'm thinking - like Autism Spectrum people who are math geniuses - that might rather be math geniuses than be normal. Just depending on what their life is like. Or what the cure supposedly actually cures.

[IndyOp]

1. My conclusion:

Based on these statements:

"The brain strands or minicolumns of autism patients have more cells, but they are narrower and more densely packed -- which can limit the brain's ability to send messages.

Dr. Casanova says that's because "there's not enough juice to actually power very long connections in the brain."

Is that a 'cure' - a drug, I presume - that would improve the autistic person's brain's ability to carry messages, would leave their mental strengths intact and improve their overall functioning.

Wow.

[bloom]

2. That would be something.

I wish the article had addressed that.

[crikkett]

19. Unlimited market potential!

Sez IndyOp:
Is that a 'cure' - a drug, I presume - that would improve the autistic person's brain's ability to carry messages, would leave their mental strengths intact and improve their overall functioning.

Sez Me:
A drug to overclock your brain. No wonder Dr. Casanova (is that right?) is self-funding research, if he makes his breakthrough he'll be rich & famous.

[msongs]

3. autism is a spectrum of symptoms - may or may not have the same causes

so people labeled autistic may be very intelligent or very retarded.

the same symptoms can occur in high and low intelligence people.

primary symptoms or behaviors are socially withdrawn, lack of eye contact and initiation of communication, below age level
verbal and communication skills and interpersonal relating skills, and similar things.

inability to determine what a person knows because of communication issues makes it difficult to determine intelligence.

these are not clinical diagnoses but generalized statements related to the topic at hand.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/demfest1.htm

[MichiganVote]

4. The majority of Autistic or Asperger's children or adults have no

'genius' abilities. The gaps in social/emotional or language development are, however, often severe.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Do You Have A Reference For This?

Do you have a reference for this? I've not been able to find a single study that documents the IQs of kids with so-called "autistic spectrum" disorders.

However, I do know that the "autistic spectrum" posse in my kid's elementary school class are all little geniuses - they may be socially awkward, even a bit odd, but they all could read, write, do math, name the planets, and discuss the Big Bang before they hit kindergarten. And talking to experts in the field, they report that the kids that they work with are almost universally quite smart. But I'd love to see some actual numbers...

[back2basics909]

9. There are...

.. high and low functioning Autotistic kids. Many of the high functioning have Aspergers.

[bloom]

10. There is this article that was posted...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=228&topic_id=17502


Scientific brain linked to autism

Highly analytical couples, such as scientists, may be more likely to produce children with autism, an expert has argued.
Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, of the University of Cambridge, said the phenomenon might help explain the recent rise in diagnoses.

He believes the genes which make some analytical may also impair their social and communication skills.

A weakness in these areas is the key characteristic of autism.

It is thought that around one child in every 100 has a form of autism - the vast majority of those affected are boys.

The number of diagnoses seems to be on the increase, but some argue this is simply because of a greater awareness of the condition...cont'd

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4661402.stm



Also - these quizzes which were posted on that thread:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/news/page/0,12983,937443,00.html

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Here In Boston...

I live in Boston, and there are a ton of super smart people at Harvard and MIT and so forth. It seems like whenever two very smart and people that we know get married, they have at least one child that gets diagnosed with this unproven "spectrum autism" diagnosis. As far as I can tell, these kids are just really smart and introspective, like one or both of their parents.

How about we just proclaim these kids as being "really smart and introspective" and dispense with the unproven and unhelpful diagnoses? Why do we want to "cure" being smart and introspective? Don't we want people who know a lot and think deeply?

[bloom]

21. I have a son

who is a physicist who is marrying an actuary/mathematician.

I am somewhat worried that the Autism spectrum may end up being a problem for my grandchildren - but I figure - oh well. I'm not going to tell them not to get married. (My son is aware of the disorder - we've discussed it).

My daughter has (per my diagnosis) Asperger's. She doesn't like to think of it that way (she has received other diagnoses).

The way I see it - is that there are getting to be lots of young people who are getting this (a counselor at her high school mentioned that she was seeing a lot more students like my daughter - and we didn't have a name for it at the time ) - and it isn't just being "really smart and introspective". Though she is what I consider to be a genius at mathematics. (I'm biased - I admit it). She thinks that upper level calculus is the most fun thing that she can think of to do.

There are also problems that go along with that. She gets depressed. She doesn't socialize. She doesn't drive (too much going on at once). She gets stressed out more than most people. She is a perfectionist. She has not been able to hold down a regular job. We didn't think of her as having problems, esp. until it became time for her to live out on her own (at a residential gifted school in high school). What happened was - that unlike most people - she was unable to cope with the normal things that people cope with to get through life. Asperger's is not like that for everybody. But it is for some people.

Most people I think would have noticed something was strange when she was much younger - but I am similar - just not as extreme - so she didn't seem that unusual to me. I think if she had been diagnosed with this when she was younger - it might have been helpful. But it would just depend on what kinds of treatments were available (it wasn't on anyone's radar where I lived). Socialization sorts of things, esp. The way it is - if someone is having problems in that area at school - esp. when they are quiet people - most people do not see a problem. A person could get about all the way through school with barely talking at all - as long as they did what they were supposed to do.

And it's not so obvious at home - since people with Asperger's will be more likely to talk with people they are familiar with.

People only really need to be diagnosed if they are having problems. My son might have it, also- but since he gets along alright - there is no reason to diagnose anything.

Maybe the people you know are getting diagnosed right and left and for no reason. On the other hand - maybe some problems will be prevented. You never know about stuff like that. That's what I figure now, anyway.

[MichiganVote]

12. I don't know of a study that has documented the IQ's of AI students

Even if there were a study of this kind, which I doubt, be sure to review the variety of sources utilized. For example, sources in a review of the kind you seek may have omitted children who are enrolled in classrooms for the severely cognitively impaired.

Sadly, there are many experts who do not work with the supposed very low IQ kids also Dx as Autistic. In my professional experience, although there are some tell tale signs, each AI kid is different. Some develop early in terms of knowledge but lack the ability to synthesize information into a meaningful sequence. As young AI students commonly do not "test" well it can be difficult to pinpoint what they gain or lose in any given developmental period.

[bloom]

8. Whether people call them genius or not

there are a goodly number of Asperger people who excel at systematizing things and have lapses in social/emotional.

So I was just wondering what the overall effect would be.

For instance - if the people could no longer focus as well - that would not necessarily be a good thing. But if obsession was a problem - people may want that fixed.

[MichiganVote]

13. Obsessions do represent an inability to focus or focus effectively

If a child has developed an increased understanding about a particular topic or academic area, it seems reasonable to assume that their knowledge at the time of initiating treatment would remain the same or ahead of others. I s'pose the question is whether their interests, habits or zeal for understanding a given area would be impacted, how, when or why.

Regardless, it will remain somewhat of a mystery as a direct correlation between treatment A and result B may be affected by other variables. Autism is a highly complex neurological impairment so expecting one type of treatment to radically change a kid or adult into 'normal' seems premature, IMHO.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. "Spectrum Autism" is Highly Suspect

Sorry, time for my rant:

There's actually no scientific evidence that "Spectrum autism" is either related to autism, or is a spectrum. So far it's all "truthy" rather than truth - psychologist "just sorta know that it's true, dammit!" - like they knew that a lot of other things are true, which have never turned out to be true. Think WMD in Iraq - which we can't blame on psychologists, but it's the same sort of knowledge.

Basic analysis tends to indicate that "spectrum autism" is, in fact, neither related to true autism, and is not a spectrum. While truly autistic people tend to have very-low IQs, people with "spectrum autism" seem to have much-higher-than-average IQs. The lack of IQs in the middle of the spectrum tends to indicate that these are seperate conditions.

So we're subjecting these kids to all knds of nutty diagnoses and unproven treatments (there are no treatments that have been demonstrated to have any effect on either actual autism or "spectrum autism").

[back2basics909]

7. Spectrum..

..means there are a range of issues. Not just one. It's admiting there have been several types of illness put under the banner of Autism. Which is exactly what you are saying. Using the world Spectrum is entirely consitant with what you wrote.

[cornermouse]

11. I disagree.

For the most part, we have no idea whether truly autistic people have "very-low IQs" simply because generally speaking, they are unable to provide enough feedback to determine their real IQ. Possibly you're referring to Aspergers when you use the term spectrum autism? And the charge that the middle of the spectrum lacks IQs? Where do you get that from?

Autism is not a mental illness. There are some things that they seem to prefer to concentrate on, (possibly it happens to catch their interest?) but their interests can be very narrow. To some extent, its an inability to conform to the norm. I always thought it was more like a broken link somewhere inside their head, although the theory that it could be multiple, smaller brain cells... I wonder could if thinking processes get bottled up or restricted because cells are too small? then again, maybe its like the original article stated.

Any way you look at it, its fascinating and hopeful. And sometimes hope is all parents of autistic children have to hold on to.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Anyone Who Does Something Great Is Unable to "Conform to The Norm"

Your sentence "its an inability to conform to the norm" hits the nail on the head. There are some kids that are truly disabled in this world. But it seems like any kid that is smart and introverted these days is being labeled as having some sort of utterly unproven "spectrum autism" disorder and "treated". How about instead we say "hey, that kid's smart and introverted - let's try to help them make friends and play with the other kids - he probably won't sell used cars when he grows up, but he may have to settle for founding the next Microsoft.

Why do so many focus on disability rather than ability?

[cornermouse]

22. Why do so many focus on disability rather than ability?

Because sometimes to get to the ability you have to either overcome or push past the disability. That's not an IQ diminishing activity.

Maybe its different where you are, but there isn't really a lot of treatment being done around here for spectrum autism other than physical or occupational therapy to help muscles which don't work as well as most of ours do or speech therapy in an attempt to train them to communicate better.

[bloom]

20. "unable to provide enough feedback"

That's how I see it.

[cornermouse]

23. There is a study based in one of the Carolina universities

into the possibility that it could be genetic. I'm not sure I believe that it is because I lean toward it being more like contact with something toxic or pollutant, but you might want to do a search for it so that you can make up your own mind.

[bloom]

25. From what I've read

(and I've read quite a bit on the subject) in addition to my own experiences - I'm going with the theory that there is a genetic component - that is exacerbated by environmental conditions.

I think that mercury and other toxins probably are a contributing factor. There is also often an immune response problem - that should not be overlooked when studying this.

I also think it's interesting that apparently people think that you can "test" ? for Autism AND Schizophrenia with a test for sulphites? I think it would be interesting if there were some connection. Other things I have read suggest that Schizophrenia is associated with a toxic environment as well.

[MichiganVote]

14. The use of "spectrum" Manny is intended to encourage clinicians

to recognize AI as a continuum of symptoms. Loosely, Autism, High-functioning Autism, and Aspergers.

IQ is perhaps the least effective measure of a diagnosis of Autism. Social/emotional and especially receptive/expressive language abilities are key factors to evaluate.

To be sure there are many clinicians, physicians and parents who Dx AI who lack the training or knowledge needed to discriminate AI from other neurological conditions. As to treatments, programs or clinicians who focus on communication problems or the social/emotional adjustment of kids or adults are effective. Some children and adults utilize medication and that too can be a viable option depending on the kid/adult and their circumstances.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. But There's Simply No Evidence

There's simply no evidence that there is a single disease, Autism, that shows up in a spectrum of people. Rather there is a true disease - Autism. And there are a bunch of people who do not have true autism, who are being pinned with a possibly-misleading and probably-unhelpful diagnosis of "spectrum autism", which nobody can define with any precision beyond that reached by reading tea leaves.

The whole "spectrum autism" thing smells like phrenology, lobotomy, repressed memories, and the rest of the hit parade of psychology fads.

[MichiganVote]

18. I agree. Like most medical diagnosis, terms and symptoms are over used

Its just a thing that happens in the med. world. Especially as some of the diagnosis are related to the dispensation of public funds. I've seen it happen.

Autism Spectrum Disorder refers to a broad spectrum of symptoms that denote the likelihood of Autism to the exclusion of other diagnosis. The term spectrum does not address a 'spectrum' of people, rather a spectrum of symptoms.

Like as not, there is a push by some in the psych world to 'spectrum' everything from mood disorders to autism. Some of this is good and some of it is bad or misleading.

Whether a category is deemed a spectrum or a single set malady, mysteries will persist.

[trotsky]

24. That makes me uncomfortable, too.

Clearly many of history's greatest thinkers and inventors had some kind of autism spectrum disorder - and it led to incredible advances for all of humanity. I don't want to get rid of that.

For some reason there is this perception that "autism" is the trendy/politically correct new term for "profound retardation." Far too many people think that a person with autism will never be able to function in society or care for themselves, and that's just not true.