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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:00 PM
Original message
Study Shows No Differences in Weight Gain Between Sucrose, High-Fructose Corn Syrup
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20101011/how-sugar-compares-with-high-fructose-corn-syrup

"High-fructose corn syrup, a sweetener used in soft drinks and many other products, isn't more likely than sucrose, commonly called table sugar, to promote weight gain, according to a study presented at the annual meeting of the Obesity Society.

The study was supported by the Corn Refiners Association, a trade organization representing corn refiners who make high-fructose corn syrup and other products.

When overweight and obese people were given each type of sweetener, ''we saw no differences between the two treatments," says researcher Joshua Lowndes of the Rippe Lifestyle Research Institute at Florida in Celebration.

While high-fructose corn syrup has gotten a reputation as a "bad" sugar, the new study found that neither sweetener, when consumed as part of a sensible diet, promoted weight gain or fat accumulation.

..."



----------------------------------------------

Yes, it's a small study, which is makes it very preliminary, and hardly decisive. Still, since every other small study on the matter gets big play, this one should too. No?

:hi:
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Supported by the Corn Refiners Association...
that aboslutely lends credence to the study all by itself.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Funny that the critics don't seem to do studies that compare HFCS to other sweeteners.
Why is that?
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. It's been a while, but ladies and gentlemen I present another sad case of
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Hahahahahahaah!!!
Gawd, I needed that laugh!

Thank you!

:toast:
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. The study was supported by the Corn Refiners Association....Unrec.
The study was supported by the Corn Refiners Association, a trade organization representing corn refiners who make high-fructose corn syrup and other products.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The next time a study that claims something is horrible with HFCS...
Edited on Tue Oct-19-10 02:54 PM by HuckleB
... and tells people to use other sweeteners, even thought the study didn't compare those sweeteners to HFCS, I'm sure you will unrec that, too!

Right?

Oh, by the way, this study just shows what other studies in the vein have showed.

Is High-Fructose Corn Syrup a Safe Alternative to Sucrose?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13510478/Is-HighFructose-Corn-Syrup-a-Safe-Alternative-to-Sucrose
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. I see
and there's no reason why people being paid by the Corn Refiners' Association might be interested in producing a particular result?

All 'studies' should be taken as propaganda unless and until independently confirmed by parties with no material stake in the outcome.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, it should be reviewed more.
However, this does compare sucrose to HFCS, which is not what has happened in most of the studies that get the "HFCS is EVIL" headlines.

It does appear that WebMD interviewed researchers who have seen the study but were not involved in it.

Again, no matter what, it's too small to make any great supposition.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sorry, not credible - "corn refiners who make high-fructose corn syrup and other products"
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Number 4!
WebMD made sure to be up front about that, which is far more than what can be said for many studies in the world. WebMD also interviewed researchers not associated with the study.

Further, if this is not credible, then what can be said of studies that make claims about the supposed horrors of HFCS, when those studies haven't compared it to sucrose and other sweeteners?
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more
A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain

A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

In addition to causing significant weight gain in lab animals, long-term consumption of high-fructose corn syrup also led to abnormal increases in body fat, especially in the abdomen, and a rise in circulating blood fats called triglycerides. The researchers say the work sheds light on the factors contributing to obesity trends in the United States.

"Some people have claimed that high-fructose corn syrup is no different than other sweeteners when it comes to weight gain and obesity, but our results make it clear that this just isn't true, at least under the conditions of our tests," said psychology professor Bart Hoebel, who specializes in the neuroscience of appetite, weight and sugar addiction. "When rats are drinking high-fructose corn syrup at levels well below those in soda pop, they're becoming obese -- every single one, across the board. Even when rats are fed a high-fat diet, you don't see this; they don't all gain extra weight."

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's been discussed ad nauseum.
Edited on Tue Oct-19-10 02:35 PM by HuckleB
Researchers who've looked at it can't quite figure out how they came to the conclusions that they did. Besides that, it's a very preliminary rat study. It needs to be replicated on a larger scale, and then the issue needs to be studied in humans.

Why the new study on high-fructose corn syrup and weight gain is flawed
http://www.eatingwell.com/blogs/nicci_micco/2010_03_26/why_the_new_study_on_high_fructose_corn_syrup_and_weight_gain_is_flawed

HFCS makes rats fat?
http://www.foodpolitics.com/2010/03/hfcs-makes-rats-fat/

Is High Fructose Corn Syrup Worse Than Regular Sugar?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=19

Is that right? HFCS makes people fat?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkup/2010/03/is_that_right_hcfs_makes_rats.html
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Another mis-direction
it's not the weight that is the problem as much as what it does to your liver...and the predilection to Diabites...
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Untrue.
Sorry.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The problem with the small studies showing affects on the liver and diabetes...
Edited on Tue Oct-19-10 02:43 PM by HuckleB
= Those small studies did not compare HFCS to sucrose and other sweeteners. Plus, of course, they are small, preliminary studies that must be repeated on a much larger scale.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
14.  Is High-Fructose Corn Syrup a Safe Alternative to Sucrose?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13510478/Is-HighFructose-Corn-Syrup-a-Safe-Alternative-to-Sucrose

"At least five studies conducted in recent years have repeatedly shown that there is no statistically significant difference in blood glucose, ghrelin, leptin, and/or insulin levels following the consumption of foods and/or beverages sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup and sucrose4. Still another study has shown that both HFCS and sucrose both show triacylglycerol responses much more like pure fructose than what would be expected for a mixture of fructose and glucose3. Regardless of how one tries to read into these studies, there is simply no evidence to indicate that sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup have fundamentally different effects on or responses in the body."


In other words, it appears that this study just shows what other studies have shown.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. I do think that since it's
supported by the corn refiners association, it can be (rightfully) called into question. However, I also believe that sugar/HFCS/whatever.... MODERATION.

I would much rather use sugar that corn syrup while baking. But I don't bake a lot. It's not necessary to eat a lot of either of the two things.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Exactly.
I've never tried to use anything but sugar when baking myself. But, yeah, I'm not exactly a prolific baker either. And moderation is key.

The HFCS worries in the press actually helped me to stop drinking much soda (I never drank much in the first place). So I have to give credit where credit is due. I also have myself convinced that the sugar sodas (vs. HFCS) taste better. I wonder if I would pass a blind taste test, but no matter. Luckily, I've continued to decrease my sugar/HFCS intake, which has been quite moderate.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

That's my long way of saying I agree with your post wholeheartedly.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Cutting out sodas
whether made from Sugar or HFCS is probably a good idea. (or even the Diet Versions, which I admit an occassional liking to!)

When I started losing weight years ago (I had lost 95 lbs), the first thing I tackled was "drinking calories." It's wasteful and non-nutritious. Once in awhile, milk (skim) is acceptable, especially in coffee, but I pretty much avoid imbibing in any drink that has a high caloric count. And it helped a lot.

And like I've repeated in other threads about HFCS, i do avoid them in general. But that's because I try to avoid processed foods, and they are included in most of them. If regular old table sugar was in everything packaged at the supermarket, as well, I'd be avoiding that as much as reasonable, as well.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. But -- if you get your sugar from fruit, and not from baked goods or soft drinks
or things like that, you get a lot of fiber with a smaller amount of sugar. So, for your body, fruit is the most fully satisfying way to get sugar.

As a short person, I either had to figure that out or become wider than I am tall.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Absolutely.
I love every season of fruit. Berries (blue, black, rasp, huckle (obviously), logan, marion, straw, cran etc...) are probably my favorite, but I'm always ready for peaches, plums, pears, nectarines and apples, which can help keep me going through winter (though I freeze a good amount of berries for winter, too). I buy some citrus and other exotic fruits because they're wonderful, but it's not a local fruit, so I struggle to justify it.

Veggies have to follow, of course, because it's probably possible to overdo the fruit. I'm sure I've done it more than once when I've hit the Farmer's Market after a long bike ride.

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Wow! Supported by the Corn Refiners Association even!
Good thing that the researchers didn't have any kind of agenda.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Good thing you don't have any kind of agenda!!!!!
:boring:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Perhaps you could tell me what my agenda is here.
You apparently know more about it than I do.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. When your only response is to repeat a response that has already been done to death...
Edited on Wed Oct-20-10 01:12 PM by HuckleB
... and that response ignores the fact that Web MD was up front about the funding, and that it interviewed researchers who have nothing to do with the funding, and you also ignore the fact that this study merely replicates studies that have already been done on this matter, it makes it hard to think you don't have an agenda.

Why would that be your response if you didn't have an agenda?

That makes no sense at all.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I didn't read the other responses before I responded.
I had a spontaneous reaction and decided to post it. I'm obviously not a very original thinker. I haven't got an agenda with respect to HFCS other than I would like to consume as little of it as possible, and I wish it wasn't so ubiquitous in everything we eat (but I shouldn't be eating so much processed food anyway).

I think more than anything, I'm kind of bemused by your own fixation on the issue. When you single handedly go in and turn a nice little post about popcorn into 70 post flame thread it kind of makes one a little curious. :shrug:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm amused by the fixation of those who are determined to believe it's some horrific evil...
Edited on Wed Oct-20-10 06:45 PM by HuckleB
... all the while they're pushing other sweeteners that are just as bad, AND they don't give a rip about the actual science of the matter.

But apparently you think that makes sense.
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BuddhaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
22. Unrec...supported by the Corn Refiners Association
No bias there. :eyes:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. And I'm sure there's no bias in your unrec either.
Edited on Wed Oct-20-10 10:47 AM by HuckleB
:eyes:

This study only showed what similar studies have already shown. (See: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13510478/Is-HighFructose-Corn-Syrup-a-Safe-Alternative-to-Sucrose .)

Further, Web MD interviewed researchers who've seen the study but had no connection to the study.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Indeed. More bullshit from the usual purveyors of complete bullshit. nt
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-28-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Hardly.
Edited on Thu Oct-28-10 11:22 AM by HuckleB


Study of high-fructose corn syrup and sucrose consumption = no difference
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17234503

Sugars and satiety: does the type of sweetener make a difference? (no)
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/1/116

Twenty-four-hour endocrine and metabolic profiles following consumption of high-fructose corn syrup-, sucrose-, fructose-, and glucose-sweetened beverages with meals
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1194

Is High-Fructose Corn Syrup a Safe Alternative to Sucrose?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13510478/Is-HighFructose-Corn-Syrup-a-Safe-Alternative-to-Sucrose

In Worries About Sweeteners, Think of All Sugars
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/in-worries-about-sweeteners-think-of-all-sugars/

In other words, this study, which is open about funding, and has been looked at by researchers with no funding connection to it merely replicates what others studies have shown.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. More studies...

Study of high-fructose corn syrup and sucrose consumption = no difference
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17234503

Sugars and satiety: does the type of sweetener make a difference? (no)
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/1/116

Twenty-four-hour endocrine and metabolic profiles following consumption of high-fructose corn syrup-, sucrose-, fructose-, and glucose-sweetened beverages with meals
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/5/1194

And a nice review:

In Worries About Sweeteners, Think of All Sugars
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/in-worries-about-sweeteners-think-of-all-sugars/
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. a few more studies to peruse:
Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2010 Feb 26.
High-fructose corn syrup causes characteristics of obesity in rats: Increased body weight, body fat and triglyceride levels.
Bocarsly ME, Powell ES, Avena NM, Hoebel BG.
Department of Psychology, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08540, USA; Princeton Neuroscience Institute, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08540, USA.
Abstract

High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) accounts for as much as 40% of caloric sweeteners used in the United States. Some studies have shown that short-term access to HFCS can cause increased body weight, but the findings are mixed. The current study examined both short- and long-term effects of HFCS on body weight, body fat, and circulating triglycerides.

In Experiment 1, male Sprague-Dawley rats were maintained for short term (8weeks) on (1) 12h/day of 8% HFCS, (2) 12h/day 10% sucrose, (3) 24h/day HFCS, all with ad libitum rodent chow, or (4) ad libitum chow alone. Rats with 12-h access to HFCS gained significantly more body weight than animals given equal access to 10% sucrose, even though they consumed the same number of total calories, but fewer calories from HFCS than sucrose.

In Experiment 2, the long-term effects of HFCS on body weight and obesogenic parameters, as well as gender differences, were explored. Over the course of 6 or 7months, both male and female rats with access to HFCS gained significantly more body weight than control groups. This increase in body weight with HFCS was accompanied by an increase in adipose fat, notably in the abdominal region, and elevated circulating triglyceride levels. Translated to humans, these results suggest that excessive consumption of HFCS may contribute to the incidence of obesity.

**********

Nutrition. 2010 May 13.
Fructose and metabolic diseases: New findings, new questions.
Tappy L, Lê KA, Tran C, Paquot N.
Department of Physiology, University of Lausanne, Lausanne, Switzerland; Service of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Metabolism, CHUV, Lausanne, Switzerland.
Abstract

There has been much concern regarding the role of dietary fructose in the development of metabolic diseases. This concern arises from the continuous increase in fructose (and total added caloric sweeteners consumption) in recent decades, and from the increased use of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) as a sweetener. A large body of evidence shows that a high-fructose diet leads to the development of obesity, diabetes, and dyslipidemia in rodents. In humans, fructose has long been known to increase plasma triglyceride concentrations. In addition, when ingested in large amounts as part of a hypercaloric diet, it can cause hepatic insulin resistance, increased total and visceral fat mass, and accumulation of ectopic fat in the liver and skeletal muscle. These early effects may be instrumental in causing, in the long run, the development of the metabolic syndrome. There is however only limited evidence that fructose per se, when consumed in moderate amounts, has deleterious effects. Several effects of a high-fructose diet in humans can be observed with high-fat or high-glucose diets as well, suggesting that an excess caloric intake may be the main factor involved in the development of the metabolic syndrome. The major source of fructose in our diet is with sweetened beverages (and with other products in which caloric sweeteners have been added). The progressive replacement of sucrose by HFCS is however unlikely to be directly involved in the epidemy of metabolic disease, because HFCS appears to have basically the same metabolic effects as sucrose. Consumption of sweetened beverages is however clearly associated with excess calorie intake, and an increased risk of diabetes and cardiovascular diseases through an increase in body weight. This has led to the recommendation to limit the daily intake of sugar calories.

*******

Curr Hypertens Rep. 2010 Apr;12(2):105-12.
The role of high-fructose corn syrup in metabolic syndrome and hypertension.

Ferder L, Ferder MD, Inserra F.

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Ponce School of Medicine, 395 Zona Industrial Reparada 2, Ponce, PR 00716-2348, USA. leferder@psm.edu
Abstract

Obesity and related diseases are an important and growing health concern in the United States and around the world. Soft drinks and other sugar-sweetened beverages are now the primary sources of added sugars in Americans' diets. The metabolic syndrome is a cluster of common pathologies, including abdominal obesity linked to an excess of visceral fat, fatty liver, insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, dyslipidemia, and hypertension. Trends in all of these alterations are related to the consumption of dietary fructose and the introduction of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) as a sweetener in soft drinks and other foods. Experimental and clinical evidence suggests a progressive association between HFCS consumption, obesity, and the other injury processes. However, experimental HFCS consumption seems to produce some of the changes associated with metabolic syndrome even without increasing the body weight. Metabolic damage associated with HFCS probably is not limited to obesity-pathway mechanisms.

**********

J Nutr. 2009 Jun;139(6):1269S-1270S. Epub 2009 Apr 15.
The state of the science on dietary sweeteners containing fructose: summary and issues to be resolved.

Murphy SP.

Cancer Research Center of Hawaii, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96813, USA. suzanne@crch.hawaii.edu
Abstract

This article highlights the discussion of the issues that had been raised during the International Life Sciences Institute North America- and USDA Agricultural Research Service-sponsored workshop surrounding the consumption of fructose. One conclusion of the discussion was that the metabolic effects of high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and sucrose appear to be similar in humans. However, there have been few studies directly comparing the effects of fructose to other caloric sweeteners, such as glucose, HFCS, and sucrose. Differential effects may include those related to insulin sensitivity, triglyceride and lipoprotein levels, and glycated protein levels. Further exploration of the differences between nutritive sweeteners should be the basis of a research agenda. Studies should also further investigate factors that might affect the results, such as the amount and form of the sweetener consumed, the macronutrient composition of the basal diet, the length of the study, and the characteristics of the subjects. Meanwhile, health professionals could help consumers by providing simple messages, such as the importance of consuming lower levels of energy, including those from all caloric sweeteners.

********

This is an oldie - from 1989
Effects of high-fructose (90%) corn syrup on plasma glucose, insulin, and C-peptide in non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus and normal subjects.
Hung CT.
Abstract

Interest in sweetening agents is encouraging manufacturers and researchers to find a safe substance to maintain the life quality of diabetics. The popularity of sweetened food items has increased recently in Taiwan. The glycemic index of fructose has been reported to be 20%, much lower than most carbohydrate foods. A high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) has come onto the market of sweetening agents and has been proposed as a low-cost substitute for fructose in dietetic management of diabetes. The aim of this study was to compare the glycemic effects of HFCS and glucose to see if there is a place for high-fructose corn syrup in diabetic management. In 8 normal and 21 non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM) subjects, we performed oral tolerance tests. After an overnight fast, the subjects were given either 75g of glucose or an equivalent amount of HFCS containing 75g of carbohydrate. Blood was sampled before and at 30, 60, 90, 120 and 180 minutes after the glucose load. Blood glucose was analyzed by the glucose oxidase method using YSI 23 A (Yellow-Springs Intrument). The insulin and C-peptide were measured by RIA kits from Daiichi. The area under the curves (AUC) was calculated for plasma glucose, immunoreactive insulin (IRI) and immunoreactive C-peptide (IRCP). The results showed that the glycemic effect of HFCS was 73% of glucose. The AUC of IRI after HFCS was 56% of that of glucose. The AUC of IRCP after HFCS was 57% of that of glucose. The high glycemic index of HFCS in our study does not support the use of HFCS as a substitute for fructose.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. The first one has been discussed ad nauseum, including on this thread.
The others don't mean much, since they don't compare HFCS to other sweeteners. HFCS may be bad for you, but it may not be any worse than sucrose or any other sweetener.

That's the state of the overall evidence at this point in time.

Why is that so hard to understand?
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Sometimes, huck -
you just gotta go with your gut.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Possibly, but only a fool would do so in matters regarding empirical fact
If you're trying to decide which movie to see, then "going with your gut" is fine.


But if you're trying to debate the evils of one sugar versus another, then your "gut feeling" simply isn't up to the task.
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