My experience with type II diabetes and Atkins.....My baseline # was near 10.

[old mark]

My cardiologist MADE me go on Atkins -I started Feb 5th. I have had very high glucose for several years - unable to control it with oral meds, I had just started on insulin. My morning numbers were in the 200-320 area with oral meds, not much better with insulin.
Within several days of starting Atkins, I was in normal range in the AM. I cut back on the insulin, and quit it completely after a week. I was on fairly strict Atkins for 4 weeks, started to experiment with carb foods again a little at a time, fruit and some veggies. Recently I have had even a banana split - sugar went up, then came back down. Yesterday at my regular doc, my baseline was 6.8. I am continuing on the moderate Atkins with an occasional blowout, and I go to a gym several days a week on treadmill and machines. Weight is down almost 20 pounds, I feel much better and I am very relieved. Morning sugar is 100-130, sometimes lower.
Not selling anything, but this really has worked well for me and I wanted to tell you about it.


mark

[DrDan]

1. a bit naive here - but what do the baseline numbers mean

[WhiteTara]

4. long term blood sugar levels

my partner's is around 6-7 and he is type II. Well controlled with oral meds, but if he would exercise, he would be normal (I think it is 5)

[old mark]

7. 7 is high normal. nt

[WhiteTara]

24. indeed

but almost 10 must have been very scary and you must have been very ill. I'm glad you're doing so much better.

[old mark]

25. I had no symptoms at all - it had evidently been that high for years, and I had

never been tested for diabetes. NO ONE was able to control the glucose level with meds - the 9.whatever was with all oral meds.

mark

[kdmorris]

5. Just a guess, but I think it's the A1c test

At least, that's the best guess, given the number and the fact that the poster goes on to say further in the post that his/her fasting blood sugar was near 200. The rest of the world uses a different measurement of blood glucose, so, if the baseline number was a blood sugar test and he/she was in Europe, 10 would be a (bad) fasting blood glucose level.

10 on the A1c test roughly correlates to an average 3 month blood glucose level of 275 (which is quite bad)

[DrDan]

12. ahhh - got it - I could not relate to the single-digits based on my past results

[eilen]

11. It's the hemoglobin A1C nt

[Vinca]

2. My husband has been following a low glycemic diet for years.

In addition, he walks for 20 minutes on the treadmill after every meal. The diet isn't so bad after you get used to it. We make a substitute for flour tortillas with chickpea flour, for example and substitute rye flour for wheat flour. (Rye flour makes a great pie crust even though it's hard to work with and requires chilling and TLC.) Substitute barley (not the instant kind) for rice in Chinese dishes. His blood sugar is generally pretty low now.

[WhiteTara]

3. ah. Another important component.

You go to the gym several times a week. Physical exercise is the most important. Low carbs is also very important. Have you learned about the glycemic index? It is a great way to see what foods will help and which will harm you. Congrats on your new health!!!:thumbsup:

[Epiphany4z]

6. congrats on the great BG #s......I had great results

with adkins ,,,,...while on adkins all my labs came back better than most people without diabetes...I lost 60 lbs faster than most folks can but I burned out on the diet...now I just do NO white rice , pasta, bread or sweetened treats .and make sure that veggies make up the biggest portion of what is on my plate...I am having pretty much the same results eating that way

[zipplewrath]

8. IIRC Atkins derived his diet from working with diabetics

The good doctor developed that diet while working with diabetics if I recall correctly. The fact that it works (it worked for me quite well) is a testament to the small amount of exercise many of us get.

[old mark]

9. I was AMAZED at the problems I had with rice!!!! That may be THE worst

single think I can eat....so I don't.
I used to believe the carb based "food pyramid" stuff, and thought rice and beans was a healthy meal...Now I will eat maybe a pork chop and a medium fresh tomato.

Atkins goes against SO MUCh of the mainstream recomendations on diet, but it certainly works well for me, and I don't find it that hard with the occasional cheat....
I am even enjoying the exercise.

mark

[eilen]

13. I eat brown rice which does not give me the same problems as

white. But I don't eat as much of it. Also, cutting out baked wheat products is helpful though the sprouted grain bread is fine, does not give me symptoms. I am not diabetic but find I feel ill after eating pizza, or anything too high in fat or highly processed carbs.

Vegetables and fruits are fine, I get no problems from them.

[K8-EEE]

20. I love brown rice!

I love the chewiness of it -- I love it stir fried with fresh herbs (mint, basil, cilantro) ginger, garlic, tofu and hot sauce! Did you know you can freeze it in cupcake pans, then pop it out in half-cup portions. Steam it up in 7 minutes with some fresh veggies.

The Atkins diet is so meat heavy. Even if I liked meat more it's such a filthy industry. I can't afford the good stuff on a daily basis and I factory farmed is gross.

[Lex]

10. I've had great success with low carb eating too. One thing for me

that I noticed was that it just knocks down my appetite so I just am not as hungry, don't want to snack as much (or at all), just don't think about food as much. I think I must've been pre-diabetic before going on Atkins/low carb. I've lost 70 pounds and will soon be in the normal weight range for my height/gender.

[sinkingfeeling]

14. Diet and exercise leading to weight loss is the best thing for Type II.

[eridani]

29. The weight loss is irrelevant

Positive changes start immediately with exercise and a low glycemic index diet, well before any noticeable weight loss. If those things preceed weight loss, then weight loss cannot be causing them.

[supernova]

15. I've experienced the same thing with Atkins

I eat mainly protein sources like poultry, fish, pork and some tofu and have with at least two sides of low GI veggies with a meal.

I find that too much fruit even causes me to want to still eat.

If it stick to protein and low GI veggies, I don't think about food all the time when it's not meal time. That is a huge relief.

I have a wheat sensitivity anyway, so I stay away from wheat-based products and baked goods, even pasta. Ditto dairy. I use almond milk instead for things that require milk. My stomach is so much happier these days.

I'm better off eating this way and having the occasional cheat with dessert or french fries.

I find that when I eat this way, I lose weight. If I don't I will gain.

[old mark]

16. Interesting to find SO MANY people with great reactions to the

"terrible" Atkins program...When they designed that food pyramid thing and said that everyone should follow its guidelines, they did us a serious disservice. Many people really condemned Atkins when he first promoted his diet - I wonder how many lives his work has saved.

mark

[supernova]

17. Don't forget that awful pyramid

was designed by marketers and PR flaks who worked for the grain and dairy industries. People who had a vested interested in seeing that you and I ate more of those foods. I gave up on the food pyramid when I was about 35. That was 13 years ago. I sort of intuitively came to eating low carb on my own. Didn't know until a few years later that someone else had also come up with the same idea and had the scientific and medical background to back it up.

[K8-EEE]

21. I think those of us who had terrible reactions to it are being polite

Cuz ya know when somebody's all excited about their diet what are you gonna say but good for you? Whatever works!

I hated that diet & would NEVER ever go back on it!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

27. Same reaction here

It was awful for me, and my cholesterol shot through the roof on it.

Now it's just lots of fruits and veggies, low fat and cholesterol and lots of exercise. That keeps me at a pretty good weight. But, I'm not diabetic so there may be something else going on that causes Adkins to be more beneficial. I dunno. :shrug:

[old mark]

22. I will be seeing my regular doc again in August - we are already talking about dropping

more of the meds. I am just glad to get away from that needle.
My BP yesterday was a rather sedate 130/70, which is about normal for me now.

mark

[mike_c]

18. congratulations!

Best wishes for your continued trajectory toward better health, Mark!

[K8-EEE]

19. My dad went vegan after his diagnosis

and is off all the diabetes meds and cut his blood pressure meds in half, lost 30 lbs.

[emulatorloo]

23. TYPE II Diabetic here -- I don't do Atkins, but I don't need insulin anymore either

Basically what works for me is avoiding grain carbohydrates. 5 or 6 small meals a day, protein, fat, and vegetables/low glycemic fruit. I too hit the gym.

I was in a serious bad way -- lots of insulin and pills. Like you a couple weeks on that diet and excercise, I had to cut down the medicine. Soon after I was down to nothing.

CONGRATULATIONS!

[Duer 157099]

26. I have a question

I'm not very active but am going to change that, and yesterday I went for a 2-hour walk with my dog.

I checked my blood sugar when I got home and it was the SAME as before I left.

Does that make sense?

BTW, it was all fasting level, since I hadn't eaten before the walk.

[old mark]

28. For me, it takes maybe an hour or longer for the level to come down after

exercise....sometimes it is higher right after execrise.

mark

[eridani]

30. Yes, that is because you don't stop being insulin resistant

Those behavioral changes just result in far less stress on a genetically inadequate regulatory system.

[old mark]

31. ...part of my native American heritage....nt

[eridani]

32. Yep. They brought it with them from Central and North Central Asia

People close to coastlines with more temperate climates have lower incidence of insulin resistance. Those from the much harsher interior climates have much more.

[old mark]

33. Mom's family was partly Osage. nt

[Warpy]

34. Atkins isn't one of the diets I'd recommend

South Beach and Sugar Busters are a little more healthful. Perhaps as time goes on and your numbers improve, you can start experimenting with them.

Back in the bad old days before we had insulin, Type I diabetics would be put on the old Joslin diet, a diet of fat and protein, only. That would buy them just enough time to get their affairs in order before diabetes killed them. They barely recognized Type II diabetics, but the same diet bought them quite a lot more time, although the end result was the same. It makes sense that an extremely low carbohydrate diet would work to improve your numbers.

The problem with an extreme deprivation diet like Atkins is the impossibility of staying on it long term. Moderating it when your numbers are greatly improved by trying the Sugar Busters or South Beach diets might work better for you in the long term, with fewer blood sugar peaks when you crack and go on a massive cheat.

[kdmorris]

38. I liked the South Beach Diet

Phase 2 only, but when I was first diagnosed (in 2002), I did the Phase 2 South Beach diet for a while.

Now, I kind of make my own meal plan with the help of my CDE and doctor. I feel absolutely like crap without any carbs at all, so I do eat them, but as close to unprocessed as possible (for example, I never touch apple juice unless I'm treating a low, but I'll eat an apple for a snack, complete with the skin). After 8 years of experimentation and fastidious testing, I know what spikes my blood sugar and what doesn't. I also eat "good" fats and proteins.

Just got back from the doctor and my A1c is 6.0, my total cholesterol is 165, my HDL is 70, LDL 85 and Trigylcerides 50. Fasting blood sugar was 115.

I do take Byetta and metformin, but combined with my diet, it seems to be working for me.

[Abq_Sarah]

39. Extreme deprivation?

I've been eating low carb for years. I really don't feel deprivation for not being able to stuff my face with bread, potatoes, pasta and rice. I'd rather eliminate the sugars than take drugs. There is nothing unhealthy about limiting carbohydrates.

[grasswire]

35. I have an awful time giving up fruit.

It's even harder to give up than toast.

Mark, they lied to us about the "healthy diet." From the New York Times, 2002:

"What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie" by Gary Taubes:

If the members of the American medical establishment were to have a collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare, this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Robert Atkins, author of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and ''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just possibly this: they find out both of the above are true.

When Atkins first published his ''Diet Revolution'' in 1972, Americans were just coming to terms with the proposition that fat -- particularly the saturated fat of meat and dairy products -- was the primary nutritional evil in the American diet. Atkins managed to sell millions of copies of a book promising that we would lose weight eating steak, eggs and butter to our heart's desire, because it was the carbohydrates, the pasta, rice, bagels and sugar, that caused obesity and even heart disease. Fat, he said, was harmless.

Atkins allowed his readers to eat ''truly luxurious foods without limit,'' as he put it, ''lobster with butter sauce, steak with béarnaise sauce . . . bacon cheeseburgers,'' but allowed no starches or refined carbohydrates, which means no sugars or anything made from flour. Atkins banned even fruit juices, and permitted only a modicum of vegetables, although the latter were negotiable as the diet progressed.

Atkins was by no means the first to get rich pushing a high-fat diet that restricted carbohydrates, but he popularized it to an extent that the American Medical Association considered it a potential threat to our health. The A.M.A. attacked Atkins's diet as a ''bizarre regimen'' that advocated ''an unlimited intake of saturated fats and cholesterol-rich foods,'' and Atkins even had to defend his diet in Congressional hearings.

Thirty years later, America has become weirdly polarized on the subject of weight. On the one hand, we've been told with almost religious certainty by everyone from the surgeon general on down, and we have come to believe with almost religious certainty, that obesity is caused by the excessive consumption of fat, and that if we eat less fat we will lose weight and live longer. On the other, we have the ever-resilient message of Atkins and decades' worth of best-selling diet books, including ''The Zone,'' ''Sugar Busters'' and ''Protein Power'' to name a few. All push some variation of what scientists would call the alternative hypothesis: it's not the fat that makes us fat, but the carbohydrates, and if we eat less carbohydrates we will lose weight and live longer.

The perversity of this alternative hypothesis is that it identifies the cause of obesity as precisely those refined carbohydrates at the base of the famous Food Guide Pyramid -- the pasta, rice and bread -- that we are told should be the staple of our healthy low-fat diet, and then on the sugar or corn syrup in the soft drinks, fruit juices and sports drinks that we have taken to consuming in quantity if for no other reason than that they are fat free and so appear intrinsically healthy. While the low-fat-is-good-health dogma represents reality as we have come to know it, and the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in research trying to prove its worth, the low-carbohydrate message has been relegated to the realm of unscientific fantasy.

Over the past five years, however, there has been a subtle shift in the scientific consensus. It used to be that even considering the possibility of the alternative hypothesis, let alone researching it, was tantamount to quackery by association. Now a small but growing minority of establishment researchers have come to take seriously what the low-carb-diet doctors have been saying all along. Walter Willett, chairman of the department of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health, may be the most visible proponent of testing this heretic hypothesis. Willett is the de facto spokesman of the longest-running, most comprehensive diet and health studies ever performed, which have already cost upward of $100 million and include data on nearly 300,000 individuals. Those data, says Willett, clearly contradict the low-fat-is-good-health message ''and the idea that all fat is bad for you; the exclusive focus on adverse effects of fat may have contributed to the obesity epidemic.'' much more at link here

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html

[supernova]

36. I love that article

It's a modern classic. :D

BTW, one of the MD researchers at Duke helped to write the new version of the book that came out just a few weeks ago.

edit: The idea that you have to forgo fruit forever is one of the misconceptions about Atkins. It just asks you to forgo medium to high sugar content fruits and veggies for a short time at the beginning so that your body can switch over to burning its own fat as its primary fuel. When you are in the middle stage of Atkins you can gradually add back in higher sugar content foods like fruits.

The idea is really to experiment with veggies and fruits to find the point at which your body will either lose, maintain, or add weight. If you add weight, obviously you want to forgo that food awhile longer until you reach your goal weight.. And on Atkins a food that is a wieght gainer is *very* obvious. Eating a serving of a new food one night and stepping on the scale the next morning to find that you gained 1 lb + is a good indication that food is not a good fit for you.

[grasswire]

37. I didn't mention...

....that the reason I have to be cautious about fruit is because I am a type 2 diabetic trying to reverse that. I am used to eating a LOT of fruit, and crave it.

One day at a time!!

[Abq_Sarah]

40. Berries?

As long as I don't go crazy, I can eat moderate amounts of berries without a blood sugar spike. Oranges, unfortunately, send my blood sugar higher than I'd like.