Doctors puzzled over (very) bizarre infection surfacing in South Texas

[truthpusher]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printstory.jsp?path=/news/metro/stories/MYSA051106.morgellans.KENS.32030524.html

"It really has the makings of a horror movie in every way," Savely said.

Doctors puzzled over bizarre infection surfacing in South Texas

Web Posted: 05/12/2006 10:51 AM CDT
Deborah Knapp
KENS 5 Eyewitness News

(snip)

Patients say that's the worst symptom — strange fibers that pop out of your skin in different colors.

"He'd have attacks and fibers would come out of his hands and fingers, white, black and sometimes red. Very, very painful," said Lisa Wilson, whose son Travis had Morgellon's disease.

While all of this is going on, it feels like bugs are crawling under your skin. So far more than 100 cases of Morgellons disease have been reported in South Texas.

"It really has the makings of a horror movie in every way," Savely said.

(snip)

However, nothing worked, and 23-year-old Travis could no longer take it.

"I knew he was going to kill himself, and there was nothing I could do to stop him," Lisa Wilson said.

Just two weeks ago, Travis took his life.

link to website: http://www.morgellons.org/

link: http://www.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printstory.jsp?path=/news/metro/stories/MYSA051106.morgellans.KENS.32030524.html

[WhiteTara]

1. OMG I don't watch horror shows because

true life is so much scarier cause it's true. This sounds horrifying.
:hide:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. Is this a JOKE?

please tell me it is. I have enough to worry about.

I have this itchy place above my knee...

[Rainscents]

7. No, it's not a joke!

I seen this on the news first time about 6 months ago.

[gristy]

11. So maybe it's an old joke?

"I tried to pull it as hard as I could out and I could not pull it out."

What, he was standing on the guy's chest and pulling on the thing with a pair of vise-grips??? LOL

edit: spellin

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. It got so bad, the guy committed suicide. Do you still think it's funny?

[babylonsister]

3. TX, CA, and FL-all on the coast. This is the first I've heard of

Morgellon's; very freaky!

[grytpype]

4. I have weird black fibers growing out of my head..

... oh wait that's my hair

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Yes, and I have a few

growing out of my chin that I have to keep up with.

[bullimiami]

14. i used to have more of those fibers growing from my head :). all kidding

aside though. this is horribilous.

[slor]

15. LOL...

you made a funny! My first laugh today...TY.

[mike_c]

26. mine are slowly turning grey....

:rofl:

[undergroundpanther]

5. Damn..

I tell you someone is tinkering with DNA..and if we don't stop these mad scientists and get into the labs and boardrooms where the evil starts and expose it we will all suffer.

They test aids drugs on foster kids..secretly
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736157/
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:bIrctRysvasJ:www.swin.edu.au/sbs/ajets/journal/issue4/pdf/AJETSV3N102Ekberg.pdf+New+emerging+diseases+DNA++prisoners&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=16&client=firefox-a

[jokerman93]

51. mmm, you may be onto something there n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. K & R.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. I hope this is someone's idea of a really bad joke. If not.............

....this sounds like pure hell.:hide:

[woo me with science]

21. It's a form of hysteria.

See the post below about delusional parasitosis.

[MercutioATC]

32. Actually, Morgellons and delusional parasitosis seem to be different

things.

[woo me with science]

49. Morgellons at least sounds like a hysterical condition

and many physicians in Texas are treating it as one.

There appears to be a link with Lyme disease, with as many as 40 percent of the reports coming from people who have supposedly been diagnosed with Lyme disease. But the diagnosis of Lyme disease in this country has spun out of control, with fly-by-night "specialized" labs diagnosing the condition in epidemic numbers based on criteria that the CDC does not recognize as reasonable. It is hugely overdiagnosed based on vague, nonspecific complaints that are probably psychologically based. Lyme disease diagnosis is a lot like diagnosis of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome now. You just have to find the right doctor and the right lab, and anyone can be diagnosed.

Morgellons looks to me like a case of hysteria, in part being publicized and spread by the same folks who gave you "epidemic" Lyme disease.

[MercutioATC]

50. If there's actual physical evidence (fibers), wouldn't that rule out

"hysteria"?

I'm not saying that every person who feels that they have bugs crawling on them has an actual physical condition, but if some people DO have these fiber thingies wouldn't that indicate a physical problem?

[woo me with science]

53. If you google "Morgellons" and look at the photos

you will see pictures of people with general skin conditions. You will also see pictures of the alleged "fibers," apart from skin. What you won't see is pictures of the fibers actually emerging from the skin, as they are reported to do. Until there is better evidence of what these fibers could logically be (and why they would come out of people's bodies) AND convincing evidence that they are actually coming out of people, I think it is highly likely that people in a state of hysteria are looking for anything that looks like a fiber, perhaps stuck to a scab or scaly area of the skin, in order to diagnose the condition in themselves.

The news reports I have read so far online have described people bringing little fibers to their physicians after the fact, and physicians saying that they look like lint.

The vague descriptions of so-called Lyme Disease are very similar. In real Lyme's disease, there is supposed to be a bullet ring with a little black dot in the center of it. Yet the people who are diagnosed at these "specialized labs" are often told that the ring can be missed very easily. Anything will do for a little black dot.

[MercutioATC]

55. I'm assuming that doctors have actually observed the fibers in the skin.

If not, I'd agree with you.

I don't think it would have gotten this kind of attention if the fibers in the skin hadn't been verified by medical professionals, though. I guess we're going to have to wait and see.

[mike_c]

71. no one has EVER observed these fibers or the insects that...

...Morgellon's patients also report in vivo. NEVER. You'll find lots of pics like the one on the Morgellon's site of isolated fibers and in at least one case, a completely unrecognizable blob that is reported to be a collembolan pulled from a skin lesion, but no photos exist that I'm aware of showing intact, unambiguous, in vivo fibers or insects. (On edit- I've seen that blob photo-- it's NOT a collembolan and isn't even recognizable as living tissue.) As I note down thread, I've had Morgellon's patients point out fibers growing from their skin or (more often) insects that have crawled out of their skin DOZENS OF TIMES-- point them out to me on their skin or hand me the insect wrapped in a tissue or stuck on a piece of tape-- only to have those fibers or insects turn out to be dirt, or very often the patient's own dried body fluids.

The lack of direct evidence is especially troubling because we're talking about things that would be easily seen and photographed if they were there.

[AlienGirl]

74. Wigs exist, so all hair must be wigs

Just because an entomologist doesn't see actual insects doesn't make the whole condition imaginary. Admittedly, delusions of parasitosis exist. But something else ALSO seems to be going on that involves neurological symptoms and odd fibrous cellulose bits. To assume that just because *some* parasite reports are delusional, *all* similar reports must also be is like assuming that since some people wear wigs, real hair doesn't exist.

Unfortunately, the medical community has a history of dismissing emergent diseases as "hysteria," especially if they affect women, are non-fatal, and have unusual symptoms.

Tucker

[MercutioATC]

111. Hey, maybe it IS all B.S. but it seems to have more to it...

...but then again, I've been wrong before.

[harpboy_ak]

112. You obviously know nothing about Lyme Disease

The vague descriptions of so-called Lyme Disease are very similar. In real Lyme's disease, there is supposed to be a bullet ring with a little black dot in the center of it. Yet the people who are diagnosed at these "specialized labs" are often told that the ring can be missed very easily. Anything will do for a little black dot.

You are full of crap. Diagnosis of Lyme Disease is not based on the tick bite. It is based on finding the bacteria in the bloodstream. It invades joints and the symptoms can be similar to arthritis. it can also infect brain tissue.

Treatment involves multiple infusions of antibiotics over several years, and is not fun.

[preciousdove]

114. Close

Lyme tests look for antibodies in the blood for the specific Lyme spirochetes . Current tests are too genetically specific and miss 60% of active Lyme according to the CDC. Therefore Lyme has to be a clinical diagnosis. If you have tick bite or bullseye rash, the symptoms AND respond to antibiotics you have Lyme.

It takes a few days to get those antibodies but it takes only 24 hours for the spirochetes to breach the blood/brain barrier. After 6 weeks the disease becomes deep tissue and then you may only find antibodies in the blood sporadically. Some people do not make antibodies. They often have ALS like symptoms and are the most likely to die.

I have never heard of a "black dot" specifically but I am guessing there may be one shortly after a tick has dropped off a scab.

Bulls eye rings indicate the body has mounted a defense against the spirochetes but those who do not make antibodies or make them late do not have any ring or they can show up when the disease is very disseminated far away from the tick bite. CDC thinks 75% have bullseye rash, clinical researchers say more like 39%.

You need 6 weeks of antibiotics just like syphilis, no alcohol and you can transmit it to your partner, fetus or nursing baby during this time I know my second was born with it and I lost my third to miscarriage because of it.

NOBODY makes money treating Lyme Disease But tests ($100 a pop and each new doctor makes a new test)which never should have been approved because tossing a coin is more accurate for diagnosis do make money. The people who approved these tests had a financial interest in them.

[rman]

122. fibers emerging from skin:

http://www.dpref.com/fibers.html

[AlienGirl]

57. Does it respond to psychiatric treatment?

[woo me with science]

70. If it is hysterical, the recommended intervention would involve

reduced attention to the reported symptoms (and perhaps increased attention to actual problems in the patient's life) and separation of the patient as much as possible from others who believe in and fuel the hysteria.

But the problem with hysterical illnesses is that they are usually supported and fueled by a few doctors who are caught up in the hysteria, as well, and the patients cling to them and avoid those who don't believe. I suspect it's no coincidence that so many of the people who believe they have this new illness are also diagnosed with Lyme disease. There is a subgroup of physicians, (including psychiatrists) in this country that is diagnosing Lyme disease all over the place where it doesn't exist. They attribute every vague physical or psychiatric symptom that comes through the door to the illness, and they truly believe this is what they are seeing. This despite protestations of the Center for Disease Control.

It is the same reason you will see certain family physicians who have caseloads full of fibromyalgia patients and others who never diagnose a case in their whole careers. And why certain therapists have caseloads full of satanic ritual abuse and multiple personality patients, while most never diagnose one.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this, but right now, at least, the reports sound a lot like hysteria.

[AlienGirl]

73. So fibromyalgia is a hysterical illness too?

[woo me with science]

81. In many cases, probably.

If you look at the criteria for diagnosis of fibromyalgia, you will see that they are very vague and nonspecific. It is like chronic fatigue syndrome in that there is not a specific symptom set or disease process that can be identified to define it. There is often a strong psychological history in the people who present with it, as well.

Fibromyalgia is a topic of some controversy and interest in medicine and disability law right now. There are entire conferences being held to discuss how this illness should be managed, given that it does not share many of the characteristics of the typical disease model.

[pitohui]

87. alien girl, so you know where this person is coming from

easy to dismiss other people's illnesses as hysterical, sigh

i have a relative crippled by lyme disease, so i am prob. not one to read such posts w. best humor

of course there is a strong psychological history in people who present w. these diseases because doctors have spent years telling these people they're crazy

if my relative had received a course of antibiotics in time instead of bullshit, she'd be well today instead of permanently disabled -- and she was living in freakin hartford, connecticut, no excuse for lyme not to be tested for and treated

another case, my mom nearly died because her cardiovascular disease was diagnosed as depression -- by they time they FINALLY did a coronary bypass on this woman, they said she would have lived only a week longer

but it's better than what happened to my friend, whose father DIED, because his colon cancer was misdiagnosed as depression until it was way too late

i think we need to be very suspicious of "psychological histories" because people feel tired and depressed because they are ill -- it should not be a license for doctors to ignore real diseases like lyme disease, heart disease, or freakin cancer

this type of post makes me feel sorry for the people w. the fiber disease and i'll be the first to admit i never heard of it before and have no way to judge it on its merits

but i have too much experience w. doctors not being able to see beyond their noses w. "real" diseases that most people would accept as acknowledged to exist, apparently if you are thin, you can't get ill and if you say you are, prepared to be dismissed as a hysteric

[woo me with science]

91. Please don't talk about me in the third person.

It is rude, and I would not behave that way with you.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see that I have stated clearly that Lyme disease does exist as a true disease. I have also stated that SOME cases of fibromyalgia probably reflect undiagnosed physical illnesses. I have never argued that those claiming such symptoms should be shunned or abused or treated in any way without compassion. However, for you to deny that hysterical illnesses exist is to ignore a phenomenon that has been well-documented throughout history.

I would never make a claim about whether your family member's case of Lyme disease is a medical one or not, because I don't know how the diagnosis was obtained.

Those who would suggest that anything can be called a "disease," even in the absence of good medical evidence for a true disease process, pose a threat to the integrity of medicine and the provision of good care.

I care about the many people led into expensive treatments they don't need, and the medical "professionals" who rely on less than scientific evidence to sustain such interventions.

[pitohui]

95. hysteria is not a diagnosis

it is my understanding that most doctors no longer accept hysteria as a medical term

it is a term used to insult people, esp. women

so yeah, i was rude because i was responding to rudeness, hysteria is a term of abuse, not intended to help anyone but instead intended to cast aspersions

my problem w. issues like this is that doctors -- perhaps spurred on by insurers -- would rather say a person is a hysteric or depressed -- diseases that don't require treatment except for an Rx, because it's cheaper than looking for the actual cause of the symptoms

i come by my skepticism the hard way as i said in my story -hysteria is a way for insurers to cheap out and doctors go along to get along since insurers pay their bills

in my relative's case, why would any connecticut doctor not check an active young outdoorswoman who reports being inexplicably tired and in pain for lyme disease, oh, because the insurer didn't want to pay for tests, and months later, it was too late, her health was permanently affected, some of the neurological symptoms can never be repaired if you don't get antibiotics in time

in my mom's case, why would any doctor assume that a woman in her sixties is just depressed when she reports being tired after exercise? do they assume that simply because of her age? why wouldn't they check for heart disease first? you see, my mom almost died because doctors are too busy worrying abt "hysteria," something that may or may not exist, and not enough time checking for real killers of women, christ, heart disease is prob. the number one killer of women in her age group!

so excuse me if i'm not real interested in "hysteria"

sigmund freud passed a long time ago and too many illnesses put down to "hysteria" have turned out to have real causes

check the physical first

then worry about eliminating some magical metaphysical effect

[woo me with science]

101. Of course check the physical first.

Where on earth did you read that I favor ignoring women's complaints and not checking for heart disease? or actual Lyme disease? I am arguing exactly the opposite. Of course the tests should be run. There are tests approved by the CDC that will identify true Lyme disease. That is the purview of physicians. Treat disease. But don't pretend that something is a disease when it isn't. You SHOULD care when the very definition of a disease starts getting bent and reshaped, because it affects the integrity of medicine, and it strips away an expectation of reasonable care from patients.

Of course hysteria is not a medical disease. It is a social and psychological phenomenon. I thought it was clear that that that is the crux of my entire argument: some things are NOT medical diseases, and it is malpractice for physicians to act as though they are. It is important to recognize the difference, and we have criteria by which to do that. In some sad areas (Lyme disease is a good example), those boundaries are being eroded by some physicians, and people are paying thousands of dollars for bogus medical treatments they don't need.

There are real consequences, to real people, when you start redefining what is "disease."

[preciousdove]

117. Lyme can be treated later

If she still has symptoms she may still have active disease. There are nutritional supplements such as magnesium (normal doses please), Q10, B vitamins that help repair da manged nerves long after the original damage. Hyperbaric Oxygen helps people heal nerve damage especially those who cannot take antibiotics. It is used routinely for MS in Europe.

It is a tough road to walk but people do get better long after initial infection. They are using antibiotics for trials in MS and ALS this year and a second scientist in the US has joined McClusky in research that indicates that some Alzheimer's is related to spirochetes in the brain so that is another reason to keep after the symptoms if she still has them. McCluskys original research was in Switzerland, then Temple University now she is in Vancouver working with the Canadian Lyme Association.

[preciousdove]

118. When did medicine become so adversarial?

Here is the rub. Insurance companies say that doctors need Lyme tests to get permission to treat. Lyme tests are useless. The Doctors see they have a sick patient and they realize that they will not be allowed to treat them but if they get a diagnosis somewhere else they could be held legally liable for a misdiagnosis (most people do not want to sue doctors) so they shuffle them off to specialists or decide to muddy the waters with a psych diagnosis. I would guess that most don't even think about what they are doing any more it has been this way since 1999 when ICANN started fishing through doctors records for "overuse" of antibiotics. Their professional lives are at stake because of decisions made by bean counters in insurance companies who also put great pressure on the CDC by the way.

Good doctors do this. Bad doctors tell patients they need to have more sex, that they suspect Munchhausen's that the patients are hysterical or non compliant. I have dozens of these case stories for each.

Kind of like the idiot who gave me a pregnancy test when I was ten years past menopause and told him I was not sexually active. He just called me a liar and it was more than rude. Was there something on my medical records to prompt that or did he want to make sure I wouldn't trust him enough to come back? Would I have gotten a truthful answer if I asked?

[Hekate]

113. Recommended reading: "Fibromyalgia & Chronic Myofascial Pain"...

... by Starlanyl and Copeland, 2nd rev. ed., 2001, available in large-format paperback.

Your comment pressed a trigger point, so to speak.

I think it's safe to say that chronic pain can influence how you look at your life and the rest of the world -- that is, your psychological state. Chronic pain, if you are unlucky enough, can eventually turn you into a person unlike the person you were before you had chronic pain.

I think it's also safe to say that chronic mental misery (an abusive relationship, the boss from hell in a job you can't afford to quit, actual powerlessness) can eventually have a negative effect on your body. Teeth can crack from clenching your jaw all the time. Heart disease from chronic stress has been pretty well documented.

I've had fibromyalgia for about 25 years. Yes, I live with chronic pain. I lived with chronic -- and often acute -- stress for about 20 years leading up to the onset of the FM, and continuing on after that. I come from a family that values stoicism, but ultimately no amount of trying to override/ignore my body's gathering pain worked.

I shattered two molars while working for the boss from hell -- why would it be so hard to imagine/acknowledge other damage to my body as well? I was abused in my childhood -- for twenty years I suppressed the information in order to get on with my life, but never forgot -- could it be that my body "remembers" as well?

I don't want to flame you for your comments, only offer you a different point of view on one dis-ease often dismissed by those who don't live with it. As I indicated at the outset, I believe mind and body powerfully interact with each other, and are not truly separate.

As for the ailment that started this discussion, I see by reading downthread there are some scientists (like the entomologist poster) actually examining what people bring to them, and who knows -- by process of elimination, at least they may be able to say what it is not. I'm always up for that. And I found reading about DP very interesting, if sad.

Hekate

[preciousdove]

116. A Few Case Histories

A elderly retired surgeon became ill and was unable to get a diagnosis. He went to Columbia Medical Center where he was diagnosed with Lyme Disease. He opted to see the top Lyme Clinitian, the one who testified that Dr Steere was full of crap before the Senate in 1993. He was treated for 6 months and was feeling well enough he wanted to return home and continue treatment. We called around to our contacts here and were told that a professor of Medicine at the University of Minnesota would see he would be able to continue treatment here. When he showed up for that appointment he was told that they were not going to continue the treatment so he had to go back to NY.

A mother who had been treated at the same time called looking for another doctor for further treatment after Dr Franke had been forced to stop treating Lyme Patients only in 1994. She was going to be in an ugly divorce and needed to be better physically for the divorce and custody issues. She is the one who told me that many professional golfers went to South Africa for treatment to avoid publicity and keep their medical status private. She had money too but her insurance was through the U of MN. She was unable to get help through the Infectious Disease or Hematology's departments but she found a psychiatrist there who had her go to Columbia for diagnosis and agreed to treat her here. The Doc arranged for a pic line to be inserted in the ER but when she went in she was am bused by the Infectious Disease department and put in the psychiatric floor for a three day hold where they did daily blood draws, not standard on the psych ward (I hear they even take meds away there). A nurse on the floor said it looked like they were trying to cover their asses in case she sued for misdiagnosis and the psychiatrist and her family got her out of the state as soon as she was released. She was treated again in NY for a year and returned here to sort out her legal and medical problems. Because of them she lost a year with her children.

I went to Albany NY to kick off the campaign to draft legislation to make the NY medical board hearings fair to doctors. There was a hit list of 17 doctors they were going after for treating Lyme Disease. The education of the NY State Congress was so successful that Gov Pataki finally backed down and stopped the witch hunt. However they then switched to Dr Jones. Dr Jones is 70. He has treated over 70000 children with Lyme Disease. Children other doctors had sent home or accused their parents of Munchhausen's in their ignorance. Why is Dr Jones under investigation today. He got records and spoke to a local physician about a pediatric patient. The mother could not immediately get to CT so he prescribed antibiotics. Unfortunately the kids parents were divorcing and the father decided he wanted to make trouble so (or money who knows) so he filed a complaint against Dr Jones and the American Lyme Foundation was only to happy to send their experts in to testify against Dr Jones. Their experts are the ones who don't believe in persistent Lyme Disease. Despite Dr Fallon's 5 year study that proved infection after treatment with despite the crap the CDC tried to throw at the study including having Dr Steere lie in the press.

I was supposed to go protest Dr Steere receiving the "distinguished clinician" award by the ALDF in Manhattan in 2000. 400 patients in wheelchairs hooked up to IVs showed up with 14 days
notice. All the Major networks were there covering it but Zuckerman saw the protesters stepped out of his limousine and made a cell phone call and NONE of the coverage made it to the MSM. So if you think I am crazy for thinking that Lyme did not get politicized out of existence in this country you are wrong. Same way we are not heard about the GOP the Lyme Community is not able to get the truth out. If they can do this to us they can do it to any group of sick people. That is downright terrorizing.

[preciousdove]

115. Wrong. Lyme Disease is grossly under diagnosed

You know who has revitalized the Lyme support groups here after the campaign by insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies to control the disease are? Doctors and nurses who realized they had been bamboozled by a false PR campaign. Insurance companies were not going to let patients control access to care so they founded the American Lyme Disease Foundation to spread disinformation and have experts to testify against patients in court.

Specialized labs sprang up because the CDC approved about 100 tests that they knew only found 39% of the disease in positive samples they sent to the testing companies. This is documented.
Twice we stopped the FDA from closing down IGENEX and we used documented facts not propaganda that had been published against them. The CDC sent degraded samples to IGENEX and ordered them to test them and send results and then got someone to published that those tests failed in Europe so IGENEX had to fight both here and the EU. They did and they won but the smear tactics still work on folks like you. We were the model for the control of health care by this cabal. There are books about it if you care to learn.

The politics have caused huge suffering and cost to thousands of Americans and point out how badly our medical system is broken.

BTW the low level brain and nerve inflammation often causes crawling sensations and in rare cases hallucinations. These people are not coming to you to torture you they are coming for symptom relief. There are currently 2 doctors actively treating Lyme beyond 6 weeks in this state. Mayo sends all people with Lyme Diagnosis straight to the psych department. Even Mayo is getting it wrong but then they got the contract to develop the tests post LymeRix so they are caught up in the economics of it. If they admit their test is useless they are in trouble so instead they say that hundreds of people are delusional about Lyme. Wellstones aide told ne that for some things Mayo is just plain wrong. They almost had to sue them to get them to use the fecal occult blood tests after everyone else was using them to try to diagnose GI cancer.

Before I lost so much to this disease, undiagnosed from 1974-1991 I had great respect for the medical community. Now I ask a lot of questions before I let anybody treat me and one of them is what do you really know about Lyme Disease?

[genieroze]

10. What kind of infection? Viral, bacterial, fungal. It seems world wide

from the site.

[pnwmom]

12. Morgellon's foundation: cases in all 50 states

I can only hope this is an elaborate hoax.

www.morgellons.org

[bullimiami]

13. holy crap. i never saw this before.

look at the site morgellonsusa.com.

[wiley]

16. Try this. Sounds like an untreated insect infestation

http://www.morgellons.org/rwupdate.html

Could be T. gondii or helminths. Routine screening tests for opportunistic infections associated with immunosuppression should help figure it out. Sounds like adequate diagnostic testing is not being done.

[kestrel91316]

76. Toxoplasma gondii is a microscopic protozoan parasite with a well-

known and thoroughly studied life cycle. Sorry, whatever this is, it AIN'T Toxo.

If it's a helminth (worm), some intelligent doctor needs to submit a biopsy specimen to a pathologist that the pathologist can then identify a helminth in. Until that happens (standard diagnostic protocol for a mysterious skin lesion) I am NOT buying this nonsense.

I think it's nutty hypochondriacs being validated by ignorant fools.

[mike_c]

84. I've tried to tell folks in this thread that I've personally worked...

...with a number of these patients and while their condition is certainly debilitating, it really is based on delusions. I have examined MANY specimens patients have pulled from their skin in front of me and shown them that under the microscope the specimen is INVARIABLY dirt, or a bit of plant material, or some of their own dried body fluids with clothing fibers embedded. It is really sad, but it's not parasites. This thread is evidence of how strongly people WANT to believe this, IMO. Even when faced with eyewitness accounts and direct experience from folks who certainly can identify insects or insect parts, they refuse to face the truth. It's very frustrating.

[kestrel91316]

90. I know the type of people. I have had many clients over the years who

come in with their pet, and it's clear they do not actually want MY OPINION. They want me to validate THEIR opinion. They have already made up their minds what the problem is, and nothing I say can dissuade them. It's very frustrating. Some is psychological disease, and some is the "a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing" syndrome combined with internet access to reinforce the odd ideas.

[wiley]

107. My point is that diagnostic tests can rule out just about everything

Any doctor have the sense to biopsy a supposed lesion? Fecal screening? A large number of these people claim that this "disease" is related to a positive Lyme's Disease "test". One nurse claims that the same antibiotics used for Lyme's are effective treatments. Sounds like someone's generating some high priced antibiotic infusions' business. I think a good SSRI is probably the answer.

[sunniluna]

17. i will simply ignore this

i will simply ignore the things i can do nothing about, i mean, what the hell, what the hell is that? hopefully this is a joke, but if it isn't obviously if you get it, you're kind of screwed, how do you explain that to someone, i guess, hand washing or possibly just staying in your house with the doors closed.

like sars, flesh eating bacteria, and space aliens, i will simply not concern myself with this...
sunni

[LynzM]

18. Totally creepy....

And once again, to add to the list of things I can do nothing (but worry) about. x(

[The Sushi Bandit]

19. I have weird fibers growing out of the Palm of my Hand!

ever since I was 13!

[crikkett]

25. How's your eyesight? n/t

[formercia]

46. Tell Rosy Palm she needs electrolysis. n/t

[AngryAmish]

20. Delusional parasitosis

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_parasitosis>

"Delusional parasitosis is a form of psychosis in which sufferers hold a delusional belief they are infested with parasites. It is usually diagnosed as a subtype of delusional disorder. A related symptom involving a tactile hallucination of insects, snakes, or other vermin crawling over the skin is known as formication. The origin of this word is from the Latin formica, "ant"."

see also <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons#Delusional_parasitosis>

[TexasLawyer]

30. yeah, but do delusions have colors and stick out of

your bodies like fibers?

[woo me with science]

54. Do you have a picture of the fibers coming out? nt

[AlienGirl]

58. Here are pictures of fibers protruding from (through?) skin

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. And do these delusions include lesions and actual growths....

...erupting from the skin?

I don't think so.

[Oversea Visitor]

22. Hmm

cases of this all over the world.
Look like me in for some heavy reading. :(

[TreasonousBastard]

23. Note that Ginger Savely is a principal of this Morgellon...

foundation. Not that that means much in itself, but most medical authorities seem consider this condition a delusion, perhaps along the lines of stigmata.

And, did the reporter herself actually SEE these lesions, or just hear about them?

Apparently, Morgellons was first described in the 16th century, and again in medical literature of the 17th, but seems not to have been taken very seriously then, or now.

I would not add this to the list of worries we all carry about with us.

[pnwmom]

61. The Morgellon's org web site said they just borrowed the

name from the earlier disease, but there is no other connection.

www.morgellons.org

But I'm still hoping this turns out to be an elaborate hoax.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

68. Are we supposed to know who Ginger Savely is? Who is that?

[TreasonousBastard]

80. You would if you read the article, or the OP. She's...

the nurse quoted all over the place. The one who has seen "hundreds" of cases of this.

Possibly the only who's seen them.

[mike_c]

24. delusional parasitosis is WELL known among entomologists....

It's also called Morgellons disease. I have had a number of people bring me bags and bags of stuff scrapped from their skin-- lots of scabs and dried fluids because they've chronically irritated themselves-- that they swore were filled with "mysterious fibers" and with tiny insects that had crawled out of their skin. I'm an entomologist-- I know the difference between insects, their body parts, and random stuff, usually dirt or plant fibers. I've consulted with dermatologists whose patients are CONVINCED they're being eaten alive by "microscopic insects." NEVER ONCE have I seen any evidence of any parasite in any such case I've examined.

BTW, you'll see numerous references to a study published several years ago in New York proporting to offer proof that Collembola were the "parasites" involved. Such references NEVER mention that the "study" was utterly debunked almost immediately after appearing.

[NoodleyAppendage]

29. So, what is pictured in the electromicrographs on the Morgellons org site?

As a clinican, I'm well aware of the symptoms of formication and have seen it frequently in our recently detoxed patients. That being said, I would be interested to know exactly what these pictures (taken from the Morgellons site) represent? According to the captions, they were taken from skin samples of a 3 year old. I do not know of any pediatric cases of delusional parasitosis, and assuming the child isn't hitting the bottle, we can probably rule out formication due to ETOH withdrawal.

Also, I'm a bit puzzled by the apparent distribution in the reporting of these cases. Why clusters in California, Texas, and Florida? Unless one is willing to posit mass delusion, then formication secondary to delusional parasitosis shouldn't cluster like it's being reported.



60x (lesion pull from 3-year old)



SEM 250x bar = 100u



1200x bar = 10u

------------------

For me, these pictures seem to suggest some weird mutation of hair follices, which would be more plausible than an infectious vector. That being said, we are again stuck with the cluster pattern in the population. So, who knows?

J

[mike_c]

62. couple things of note....

First, I have absolutely no idea what the first photo is, but I can assure you that it is not of insect origin. I have had delusional parasitosis patients bring me jars and ziplock bags filled with fibers, mostly multicolored that look like artificial fibers, e.g. polyester lint, sometimes with lots of dried body fluids attached. But there is nothing in that photo that even looks like living tissue, to be frank. It COULD be prepped to determine whether it was organic fairly easily, and certainly cells would be clearly evident, but the Morgellon's site did not do that (or did it and did not share the results). Even a wet mount under a compound microscope would have answered that question definitively. I find the absence of that information surprising since it could be so easily obtained. Nothing presented by any Morgellon's patient in my experience has ever been intact metazoan tissue other than their own skin scrapings.

The second and third photos are SEMs of course, and that raises another set of questions. Prepping for SEM is quite disruptive, and of course it cannot be done with living flesh, so these micrographs are certainly not in vivo and there is no way to assess their relationship to any clinical presentation. Again, I've seen lots of dried body fluids with normal clothing fibers embedded. The surrounding area in these micrographs does NOT look like skin (and if it were, it would not be still attached in any event-- they're SEMs after all)-- and the fibers in the micrographs are certainly not emerging from mammalian follicles. That's apparent even to an entomologist!

The clinical info on that three year old is pretty sparse IIRC (it's been a while since I looked there). It is equally likely that the child suffered from some other condition and the PARENTS or the doctor misinterpreted it in the Morgellon's context IMO-- more likely, in fact. Again, I have searched through lots of "samples" and "specimens" from delusional parasitosis patients (not alcohol withdrawal patients as far as I know) and have NEVER found anything remotely like a metazoan parasite. I can't rule out microbial infection, but I'd also note that most end up in my office after their doctors and dermatologists tell them there is no discernible infection.

[NoodleyAppendage]

89. Thanks for the follow-up. Great info. I was wondering about Munchausens.

In the case of the 3 year old, I was wondering if Munchausens by proxy could be in play. It's certainly a possibility that can't be ruled out.

While the likely explanation is psychosomatic, have you considered whether the "lesions" may be a byproduct of some other microbial or environmental exposure? Have any of the "lesions" been sampled for differential DNA expression (host and whatever)?

J

[AlienGirl]

92. Or, for that matter, a neurological or autoimmune disorder

This is being presented as if the choice is either hysteria or parasites; but I find myself wondering whether it might not be something nobody is looking for because they're all chasing a diagnosis that is either hysteria or parasites.

Tucker

[mike_c]

98. AG, the parasite bit comes from the patients themselves....

Really, no one is trying to project this onto them, least of all the entomologists called in as the last resort to try and find SOMETHING that could account for their reports of insect bites. It's also important to remember that recognition of hysteria is NOT dismissal. In my experience DP patients are severely impacted, often profoundly disabled. That's a real effect. They need treatment. But they need the RIGHT treatment. Their physicians can prescribe all the skin creams and unguents they want, and it will not help them. One patient that I consulted with described a "jellyfish-like life form" that ate wiring in her old job and was forced onto disablility because she feared contact with the life form-- only to have her house invaded by tiny insects that invaded her skin and wove fibers through it. She was utterly debilitated. I tried to show her that all the "insects" she brought me were bits of dirt, etc. I don't think it helped-- I was one consultation in a chain of people she was seeking help from.

[woo me with science]

102. Thank you for highlighting this:

"It's also important to remember that recognition of hysteria is NOT dismissal. In my experience DP patients are severely impacted, often profoundly disabled. That's a real effect. They need treatment. But they need the RIGHT treatment."

[mike_c]

97. I think it's a possibility...

...but that's just a guess, of course. If you accept the precise that Morgellon's suffers are often quite desperate to prove their parasitosis, it certainly becomes something I'd look at.

[Zodiak]

36. As a fellow entomologist, I concur

I am about to graduate with my PhD and even in my limited experience I have come across these people. Sad, really....I wish there was something I could do to reassure them. Most that I have seen worry about mites, though.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. Sounds to me like you need quite bit of real-world experience...

...the last time I looked, delusions don't produce multi-colored fibers growing out of lesions on the skin.

[Zodiak]

66. I am talking about the delusions, not about this case

There are a lot of people who have these delusions. As far as the lesions are concrned, I have no idea because I have not read the research.

[Occulus]

103. One issue, though, is the sensation some of the people in these cases

The sensation of something crawling on them, or under their skin. I got the idea from the article that this is being misdiagnosed as the disorder you're talking about, but again the article states that that's the actual sensation accompanying the physical phenomenon.

What we're talking about here are lesions with fibers growing out of them. Did the guy who killed himself in the article have a delusion his mom tried to physically yank out of his chest? Somehow, I doubt it.

[mike_c]

106. with respect-- simple scratching and irritating does....

All you need to do is rupture some dermal cells under the top epidermal layer-- sticky fluid leaks out and clothing fibers become stuck in it.

[kestrel91316]

79. Thank you for your intelligent, informative posts on this nonsense.

My personal opinion is that most of the "victims" are either psychologically disturbed or on drugs. They are probably picking incessantly at tiny little skin lesions of the normal sort, and getting them infected, and then fibers like caarpet fuzz and cat hair and such get stuck to the stuff oozing from where they pick.

Don't cokeheads and meth addicts do an awful lot of picking at their skin because of the imaginary creepy-crawlies?

[Occulus]

105. I just had a terrible thought

What if both camps are right?

There is nothing precluding the existence of an actually similar- if not identical- physical disease alongside a delusional counterpart. Perhaps there's an actual, physical Morgellan's disease and a delusional form of the same.

I'd like to know if any MDs have seen this themselves, and I'd also like to know if any of those patients have sensations of bugs crawling in the area of the lesion.

[IndianaGreen]

27. This is nothing to laugh at!

From the link provided by OP:

Neurological function severely affected

The peripheral nervous system is often affected by this disease, but the most significant element of the infection, appears to be the effect on the central nervous sytem. Nearly all people with this illness report extreme difficulty with mental concentration and short term memory. Mood disorders, such as depression and Bipolar Disorder, are extremely common in this group of patients, affecting well over half of all individuals reporting symptoms of Morgellons Disease. Parents of children with Morgellons disease report that the majority of these children have ADHD, ODD, mood disorders, or autism. It is estimated that 65% of these children have some form of psychiatric illness, and 10% have an autism spectrum disorder.

http://www.morgellons.org/

[drm604]

93. I'm not a doctor or anything but

IMHO this association with psychiatric problems fits well with the idea that this is some kind of delusion. In fact it fits very well.

You are correct that it is nothing to laugh at. Even if it's just a delusion it sounds like a severe and life disrupting one. Mental disturbances are no more humorous than physical ones.

[Occulus]

109. I'll say

"It looked like a piece of spaghetti was sticking out about a quarter to an eighth of an inch long and it was sticking out of his chest," Lisa Wilson said. "I tried to pull it as hard as I could out and I could not pull it out."

edited to add: That guy killed himself.

[Poll_Blind]

28. On the migration of foreign bodies which have been ingested...

One of the things I learned to do was make fly-fishing rods from scratch. It was years ago, but there was an anecdote relayed by the instructor to highlight the reason for taking care with the carbon fiber sheets which are baked onto the dowel which strengthens the rod. He indicated that it is not unheard of for folks working at flyfishing rod factories to accidentally pierce themselves with the carbon fibers due to careless handling of the material. He indicated that the carbon fibers are not recognized by the human body (possibly because of the extreme smoothness of their surface) and once inside, can migrate anywhere even coming back out the skin after a period of time.

From some of the things I've read in the article it appears a similar situation may be occurring.

PB

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

39. Looks like microfibers.

I probably have about a pound of toothpick wood stuck in my stomach and colon and who knows where else from eating the dam things after being at a restaurant over the course of 30 plus years. Does this mean I might have a micro-jungle growing in my gut?

I always think about all the stuff we flush down into the sewer, all our DNA mixing with everything else. Creepy.

[Poll_Blind]

43. The interesting thing about this is it's coming out via the skin...

...which means that if it was ingested it would have had to migrate out of that closed tube somehow. The digestive tract is fairly sensitive material but for something to pass through those walls and migrate to the surface of the skin is- well it's not something I've ever heard about except, possibly, for foreign bodies that the immune system does not recognize as foreign.

PB

[Rex]

47. Why won't the body recognize these as foreign bodies?

So it is not a synthetic substance, but organic and not recognized by our immune system? I live in South Texas and this is the first I've ever heard of this kinda thing. Kinda creeping me out.

[Poll_Blind]

48. Possibly. However, there isn't enough information to tell. There's...

...a difference between a titanium or niobium fragment, which is physiologically inert migrating to the surface of the skin from below and these fibers which may cause cysts of a sort.

The anecdotes about the tensil strength of the fibers are suspect or at least could use more detailed testing. The gentleman was reported to not be able to pull one of the fibers out even using "all his strength". This doesn't make so much sence unless there were a network of fibers connected to it which existed subcutaneously as an anchor which distributed the pulling force over some larger area.

PB

[woo me with science]

56. but is it really?

That I think is what some people are doubting. People in the grip of a hysterical belief can interpret things strangely.

[AlienGirl]

59. I tend to doubt diagnoses of hysteria

Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome are two diseases that have been labelled "hysteria" and then, later, verified as actual disorders. I tend to doubt diagnoses of "hysteria" and "somatization."

I once had a skin lesion on my tongue repeatedly diagnosed as "psychological" or "stress-related" by my ENT, over the course of two years. He even once implied I was biting my tongue to create it in order to get attention. When I finally convinced him it should be biopsied, it was squamous cell carcinoma.

Tucker

[woo me with science]

85. I agree with you that

some cases of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome probably do reflect illnesses that the physician has not yet been able to clearly identify. However, you are wrong that fibromyalgia has been identified as a "real disease."

It is only a "real disease" in the sense that criteria were created for its diagnosis. However, if you look at the criteria, they are vague, varied, and nonspecific. There is still a great deal of concern in medicine about the advisability of even calling this condition a "disease," because it does not not conform to the criteria used to define a disease. There is no specific, recognized symptom set, and there is no recognized course for it. If you do a medline search, you will find many good articles that will explain very clearly why fibromyalgia is not a "disease" in the sense that cancer, or diabetes, or Parkinsons's disease is.

[blonndee]

88. Isn't it possible that the "recognized symptom set"

may need to be rethought? I saw that you mentioned earlier that these often occur in conjunction with a strong psychological history. Isn't it possible that these conditions are linked with say, depression, in a way that hasn't yet been "figured out" along the lines of the diseases you mentioned?

I'm by no means ANY kind of medical expert--sounds as though you are to some degree--but having my own difficulties w/medical professionals telling me nothing is wrong when I feel like crap, I get frustrated to hear people talk about "hysteria" or imply that certain conditions can't really be "real" because they don't fit the typical model.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[woo me with science]

100. I think that's the problem,

that the symptoms that people actually report don't fall into a clear symptom set and don't have a clear, recognizable course or prognosis. The criteria that were created were a committee's best effort to lump the symptoms they'd heard about together in order to describe the condition, but they end up like a Chinese menu, rather than a specific, clearly defined entity. I'm not sure how you fix that, unless you are suggesting that physicians are missing a gestalt that actually does exist objectively. As I've said in other responses, I don't rule out that some cases here and there reflect the emergence of some other disease the doctor just hasn't recognized yet. At least for now, however, the evidence isn't good that there is a clear "disease" of fibromyalgia.

Saying that something is not a disease is often handled badly by physicians, who feel they don't have anything to offer to the person who is in pain. But saying that something is not a disease is not the same as saying it is not real. Hysterical illnesses and somatization of distress have been recognized throughout history, and the symptoms are very real to the people who have them. They just don't fall into the category of disease, and so the most effective treatment for them may not fall within the medical model.

[Gman]

33. At the Science Update link at the website

It has information from some Ph. D. outlining why he can't evaluate a video he was given. He says:

------------------------------------

April 5, 2006

Recently, I have been asked to evaluate some research that may have bearing on Morgellons Disease and that is presented in an online streaming video. Before I give my comments, I would like to state that I am NOT calling into question either the integrity or honesty of the person(s) who made the video.

I have viewed the video and am not able to come to any conclusions about the video for the following reasons:

1). When I am asked to review manuscripts for publication or grant proposals, there is always a clear statement of hypothesis to base the data on.... I could not ascertain what hypothesis is being tested in the video.

2). The microscopy images are of a high quality. However, when such data is presented at a meeting, or in a publication, a scale-bar would always be included. ...Seeing microscopic images without knowing the size is like looking at a road-map of a new land without a mileage scale marker. One just doesn’t know if it is 400 meters from point A to point B or 100 miles.

3). Whether a PowerPoint presentation or a paper, each figure displayed will have a thorough description of what is being shown. Species, tissue, cell culture, temperature, culture media, etc. are all details that would be written out so that the image has some meaning. This is true whether it is a chart or photo or a micrograph. In the absence of such information, one is left to try to guess what is being shown. This lack of information or interpretability is true from the start to finish of this video,...

4). There are words and phrases that show up in the video that have no meaning and hence, come across as though they have meaning, but as presented they simply do not. They should have been explained and there is no attempt to do so.

5). While never coming out and discussing the specifics, it seems that the implication is that an ‘organism’ has been generated by someone with genes of different species. If so, then there is no need to even debate the matter with nice production videos, still micrographs or speculation. ...Properly documented and well-described mages and video can be a PART of a case, but will never be considered proof.

These matters are of vital importance as it will likely be necessary to identify the cause of Morgellons Disease before effective treatments can be developed.

Best wishes for success to everyone researching the cause and treatment of Morgellons Disease.

http://www.morgellons.org/rwupdate.html

-----------------------------------------

Why would they publish on their website something debunking a video they use?

This makes no sense.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. I don't think the letter debunks the condition. I think that it is....

...some basic constructive criticism on how the information on the video was presented. Sounds like a re-do of the video using the additional data would be helpful to researchers who have not yet personally encountered the disease.

[Gman]

119. I'm not saying that the letter debunks the condition

I'm surprised they would post the letter at all as it shows they had a bad presentation put together and does not further what they are trying to do. The letter says it can't tell because of these reasons whether or not the condition is real. Its not something I would have put out there for the world to see.

[DBoon]

34. It is a sign of the Second Coming

http://www.bibleprobe.com/morgellons.htm

"And I saw another sign in heaven, great and wonderful: seven angels having the seven last plagues. For in them is filled up the wrath of God." - Apocalypse 15:1
A mysterious skin disease is spreading across the country... It may be a coinfection of the already nasty Lyme disease. Aids, Lyme disease, the bird flu, and now this.... Hmmmm!

[Lisa0825]

35. This was on local news in Houston recently.

But the people describing it said they were worms, not fibers. However, they interviewed several doctors who said what these people actually had was a mental illness that causes them to hallucinate symptoms! They did interview one doctor who believed it was real, and will treat them, but most docs won't, because most say it is imaginary.

edited to add: sorry, now that I have read the whole thread, I see that this was addressed. As a medical researcher in my 1st career, I doubt this is a real disease. For a disease with supposedly tangible symptoms, why would the vast majority of scientists and doctors not formally recognize it?

[TexasLawyer]

37. pictures on morgellons.org

How can these unknown fibers be described?




The unknown fibers associated with skin lesions can be described as coenocytic (aseptate), smooth-walled, branching, filamentous objects. The fibers have been analyzed by FTIR (Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy) and have tentatively been identified as cellulose.

The elongated fibers are often twisted into balls or what appear to be bundles of fibers, as they grow within the skin. Many people refer to these bundles as fiber balls, fuzz balls, or lint balls. The fibers are clearly hyphae-like structures, and yet, do not fall within the description of known hyphae or pseudohyphae. The fibers are most often white, but are also consistently seen as blue, black, and rarely red.




These fibers exhibit a high degree of autofluorescence and are not textile derived.



Image showing striking autofluorescence of fibers from child's lip skin lesion. Nothing was added to skin sample, except Gel/Mount mounting media and coverslip. Image is an overlay of red and blue images. Imaging was done using an Olympus Provis Microscope which employs standard wavelengths for rhodamine (Excitation 550 nm/ Emission/565 nm ) and Fluoroscein/alexa 488 (Excitation 494 nm/Emission 519nm).

http://www.morgellons.org/symptoms.html

[AlienGirl]

38. Cellulose?!

This is seriously weird. I think it's more likely to be in the "actual weird stuff" category than the "delusion" category, for two reasons. First, some of the samples are coming from kids who are too young for delusions of being parasitized. Second, the case in the OP where the mother tried to pull the "spaghetti-like" thing out of a lesion...People with delusional disorders don't project their delusions in physical form.

Tucker

[Sufi Marmot]

65. How do they know the fibers are not textile derived?

Since cellulose is widely used to make certain textiles.
Link #2
Link #3

The autofluorescence to me suggests some kind of dyed textile.... :shrug:

[mike_c]

110. all plant derived clothing fibers, e.g. cotton, are cellulose....

oh, and on edit-- MANY textile fibers like cotton have flourescent dyes added to make them appear "brighter." That's why people's clothes often flouresce under U.V. light.

[Poll_Blind]

45. Anyone familiar with the "gray goo" theory on fear about nanomachines?

It's fairly well-known though it is still a hypothetical. Anyway, the concern is that self-replicating nanomachines could have spontaneous corruption of their instruction set much like dividing cells introducing errors into their DNA. However, let's say the nanomachines were programmed to turn lead into gold, but the corruption among the instructions caused them to turn everything into gray goo. They replicate, continue replicating, all the while turning the whole planet into a big pile of gray goo.

Of course it's only a theory, but it's certainly a possibility if great care is not taken during the design of such self-replicating machines, should they ever be created.

What if nanomachines were created to produce thread out of certain basic components fed into a holding vat. Anyway, if such machines (and they don't have to be self-replicating) were improperly handled and then later ingested wouldn't they continue to happily continue making the thread out of the material available to them, even if it were inside a human body?

There's a funky thought for ya. :tinfoilhat:

PB

[jokerman93]

52. At first

this is so disturbing (and so hollywood) you'd think someone was trying to scare the crap out us.

[RadiDem]

60. I just lost a lot of faith and respect for morgellons.org

In their FAQ, they write:

"Could this be bio-terror..?

As yet, undetermined."

They might as well have written:

" Could these be minuture Flying Spaghetti Monsters..?

As yet, undetermined."

Except that would have produced LESS hysteria among the people already freaked out about it. COMPLETELY irresponsible!

[woodsprite]

63. Let's see - Jebby runs Florida. Isn't there a big, high level (3 or 4)

bioweapons lab in Galveston? Hmmm, what would the * connection be with CA - Arnie? Sounds like something got out of a lab somewhere.

[mike_c]

64. I've lost respect for a number of DUers reading this thread....

"Morgellon's disease" really is well understood to be delusional by all but a fringe group within the medical community, and I doubt if you could scrap together ten entomologists in the entire country that accept Morgellon's as anything but hysteria. I've personally worked with half a dozen Morgellon's patients and done a pretty thorough investigation of their symptoms, and SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES that they do not have mysterious fibers protruding from their skin, although they usually claim that the fibers are either there and I simply can't see them, or they claim that the fibers were there yesterday but are gone today. I've picked through all kinds of gross body oozings and scabs, furniture stuffing, innumberable bits of tissue and scotch tape supposedly full of the insects that torment them, and so on. I have seen this with my own eyes. It is hysterical. Members of my profession are VERY familiar with it because these folks end up on our doorstep frequently.

This isn't like chronic fatique syndrome in which the clinical presentation is so varied that a sure diagnosis was ambiguous (and often still is). Morgellon's patients see and feel bugs on and in their skin, or in their surroundings, AND THEY BRING THEM TO ENTOMOLOGISTS AND SHOW THEM TO US. Problem is, the bugs don't exist. I have have had literally dozens, maybe a hundred samples handed to me by patients who insisted THEY COULD SEE AN INSECT CRAWLING AROUND ON THE TISSUE, OR TRAPPED ON THE TAPE, but who were dumbfounded to see that same sample turn out to be a piece of dirt or a bit of something else under the microscope.

[pauliedangerously]

104. Thanks for the first-hand knowledge, Mike!!

I'm not going to go back and count, but I think you made your point about six times in this thread. Discussions like this make me wonder when Rod Serling is going to appear. :shrug:

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

121. I also want to thank you for your rational and knowledgeable...

... posts on this thread, along with a few (sadly very few) other posters.

Many people seem to be taking the information and links found on morgellons.org at face value. Of course everything found there supports the notion of "Morgellons disease", that's why that site exists. That site will not post anything critical.

While wikipedia.org is not always 100% accurate, they do have an entry on "Morgellons disease" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons -- that provides a lot of history and references, both supportive and critical. If people really are interested in this subject, I encourage them to do research beyond that which is found on a website whose sole purpose is to convince them that this "disease" is a physical ailment, not a mental one.

[TexasLawyer]

72. They are tryng to get federal attention to the problem

Yes, that is sensationalism, but I don't really blame the organization.

This problem shows shades of Katrina-- people have to stand on a rooftop and scream for help before it's considered an emergency. Sometimes a little sensationalism will get things moving.

Edited to add-- But if those fibers aren't for real, then I agree-- that organization will have zero credibility. Please pardon the non-doctors here. We mean well.

[Minstrel Boy]

67. website of a sufferer with many images

and ironic commentary of her "delusions."

I came down with Delusions of Parasitosis in 2001. This bizarre syndrome is also called Delusional Parasitosis, Delusionary Parasitosis, Neurocutaneous Syndrome, Monosymptomatic Hypochondriasis, or even DOP or DP for short... Oddly enough, my delusions, although mostly microscopic, are completely capable of being photographed.

These delusions, although reasonably easy to locate and photograph once I had some experience with them, are not described in any book or article. I have looked through pages of images on the web of animal and human parasites, including protozoa, helminths, and arthropods, without finding them. Entomologists, including a vector parasitologist, have been unable to identify the organism in the video, although they have suggested it appears most like a flagellate protozoa.

I now believe it will take highly trained and experienced scientists to identify my delusions. I have created this website partly in the hope of catching the eye of some parasitologist or protozoologist or microbiologist or other such specialist who might be able to help identify some of my delusions. If one of you is reading this and can offer any suggestions or just plain interest, please email me at identify at dpref dot com. I am in contact with many of those who are currently studying the condition and will be thrilled to hear from any others who might like to contribute to the advancement of knowledge on this condition, even if it is just to offer one small idea or clue to follow.

I have also created this website to honor, support and validate the thousands of others who also suffer from this condition. If you would like to share your story, send me an email. I answer all legitimate emails, although it does sometimes take me awhile. So many people suffer from this condition that I sometimes get overwhelmed with emails. So I ask your patience in advance.

Ever Hopeful's Delusions

[Poll_Blind]

69. OMG those are pictures of some crazy things, or appear to be anyway...

What the hell?

PB

[kestrel91316]

83. If I found that in a skin scraping, I would call it AMORPHOUS DEBRIS.

Not a pathogen. Not an organism of any sort. It's debris, crud, junk. The world is full of this microscopic stuff. It may be safely ignored. If it makes you nervous, wash your hands with soap and hot water.

[mike_c]

86. see the response below-- I actually identified most of the stuff...

...in those skin detritus samples. The "sandal thing" is the best one, but most of it is dirt and bits of humus.

[mike_c]

99. that's a piece of cuticle from the underside of a decomposing leaf....

The round structures are stomates. In one of the other photos on that site you can clearly see the guard cells differentiated.

[mike_c]

77. the epidermal peels look like normal peels from irritated skin...

...e.g. skin that has been stratched a lot. The "burrows" are follicles. We all have them. The "starfish" things are called astrosclereids-- they're plant fibers. I see them all the time in samples from all kinds sources. They're common in humus and soil, for example, and in dust. The "capsule" looks an awful lot like conifer pollen, but it's hard to say without scale info, and the pics are poor quality. The "black specs"-- well, they look like bits of decomposing plant material to me-- that's where the astrosclereids come from too-- but again, the micrographs are terrible. The grains of sand-- some are silica grains, some (the ones with the fiber "emerging" from them") are probably dried body fluids, e.g. salt and/or protein crystals around some random fiber, and the really interesting one is the round one with the little urn shaped neck-- it looks like an earthworm egg coccoon! They're common in soil, as are those astrosclereids and bits of decomposing black bits of plant tissue. The "sandal thing"-- the thing you linked the pic of-- is also plant material. It is a bit of cuticle from the underside of a decomposing leaf. The rows of round structures are stomates-- if you look closely you can see the line dividing the two guard cells on some of them.

[In_The_Wind]

75. It looks like Morgellons Disease is in the warm coastal states.

http://www.morgellons.org/morgmap.html
I'm surprised that there aren't any reports in Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana.

[AlienGirl]

78. If it's delusional, what was his mother pulling on?

If it's a hysterical disease, how are there witnesses who see the "fibers" coming out of the skin? Most delusions I've heard of do not involve witnesses.

Tucker

[jarab]

82. You're good, Tucker!

All that delusion must run in those families.
...O...

[NoodleyAppendage]

94. Shared delusion = "follie a deux" (a well known psychiatric condition)

While strange as it may seem, there are many cases throughout medical history of "follie a deux" or "a folly/madness for two," in which an individual will adopt the delusions and even frank psychosis of another (often a spouse or child). Typically, the transfer/sharing of delusions happen in situations where social isolation is high.

J

[TexasLawyer]

96. I think your DU name

makes you highly qualified to opine on this crazy disease.:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

108. I read this article earlier today and it is very frightening!

Yet another disease for the human race to worry about. :-(

[Celebration]

120. Dr. George Schwartz of New Mexico

Has a theory about this disease--he claims to have found a variant of psuedonomas in this disease, and links it to bacteria that has been found in bottled spring water. Now that everyone is drinking bottled spring water, I guess we have a sort of new disease. He claims to have treated a woman with sulfa drugs I think (???). Also he has published some sort of book about it.

Now if you don't agree with this theory it is fine with me, as I am not invested in it, so to speak. I have no idea if it is correct or not, but I am just really glad that not every health care professional is writing this off to be some sort of delusion.


http://www.healingresearch.org/

[rocktivity]

123. I don't know whether to call

Muldar and Scully or Dr. House!

:scared:
rocknation

[philb]

124. They have done a lot of bioterrism agent research on prisioners in Texas

and exposed them to bioterrorism agents such as mycoplasma with inserted HIV gene.
It turned out the bioterrorized mycoplsma was contagious and it got out into the Texas population.
Dr. Garth Nicholson's wife got it, and after he treated her and his daughter he has done research on
the agent which also affected large numbers of Gulf War veterans, and which he treats on behalf of the Veterans Admin.

[schrodingers_cat]

125. I pulled a thin fiber from my husbands foot...

now before you go labeling me all nutty, it took about 2 seconds to figure out. Our doggie must have some sharp hairs, becuase it was a dog hair that had worked it's way into his skin! She's got a short shiny coat, so I would guess that the hairs are pretty smooth. Anyway, I just couldn't resist tossing this into the fray...........true story. Bulldog breed owners, be warned.......