Confirmed Reports of Nerve Disease Linked To This Years's H1N1 Vaccine

[Techn0Girl]

From the San Francisco Examiner Nov 12,2009

http://www.examiner.com/x-29228-LA-Health-Technology-Examiner~y2009m11d12-Nerve-Disease-from-H1N1-vaccine--Teenager-diagnosed-with-GuillainBarre-syndrome-after-flu-shot

The 1976 swine flu vaccine program resulted in hundreds of cases of a rare nerve disease called Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS). This condition results in numbness and weakness in the lower limbs, which spreads upwards through the body. Some patients require hospitalization and artificial respiration due to an inability to control breathing. The paralysis associated with this condition may resolve over time, but nerve damage can also be permanent.

Teenager diagnosed with GBS

A fourteen year old boy has been diagnosed with GBS, hours after receiving his swine flu shot. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 5 other people have been diagnosed with GBS across the nation since the swine flu vaccine program began in early October.

I was around in '76 and remember the huge uproar over the numbers of Guillain-Barre victims. There were literally hundreds that year and it was a scary part of the culture at the time. It brought vaccine production and distribution to a halt. This was the first time that paralysis had ever been associated as a side effect from a vaccine.

Now we have a confirmed case just weeks after the vaccine went into distribution. Are we looking at a possibility of a repeat of '76 ?

Here is a Wikipedia link to the syndrome. Apparently it is an autoimmune disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain-Barre

UPDATE:
I found an interesting NYT article that gives some background into the Guillain-Barre / vaccine problem back in '76 and interviews one of it's victims.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/health/09vaccine.html

With fears of swine flu engulfing the nation in 1976, Janet Kinney got vaccinated to make sure she would be able to take care of her children. Instead, her children ended up taking care of her.

About a week after getting the swine flu shot, she recalled, “I was so weak I couldn’t push down the toaster button.” She spent a month in the hospital, paralyzed from the neck down, before gradually recovering.

[LeftyMom]

1. Wait a damned minute.

You had to wiki just to see what the disease is, but you're sure it was caused by the H1N1 shot? Come the fuck on.

[Techn0Girl]

3. It was determined to be caused by the vaccine at the time.

The Examiner article mentioned this as well and, of course , I recall it as well as the stop in vaccine distribution when the link was determined. It was eventually determined to be caused by bad production of the vaccine of some sort. At the time H1N1 was a really big scare back then and there was a huge impetus to put out a vaccine.

[LeftyMom]

6. Oh my god, there is so much wrong in that post I don't even know where to start.

I'm going to go have a drink or three to see if after that I can read your post without wanting to reach through the internet and slap whoever was supposed to teach you science (or logic.) If nobody else explains just how many things you got wrong in four sentences I'll give it a shot.

[Techn0Girl]

7. If you'd like to elaborate....

as to what was wrong and why I am willing to listen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Here is a little hint

we have had over 10 million doses given so far... we have had ONE no doubt, confirmed case and five more that are suspect. So worst case scenario the ratio is 10 million:6...

Those odds are worst than the lottery, getting hit by lightning or being a victim of an assault.

ALL medicines, yes even Tylenol, have a risk inherent in them. This is a cost \ benefit analysis and the fear factor should lose here. Oh and yes, it was MUCH higher in 1976.

[Techn0Girl]

12. Yes the Odds back then were pretty low ...

And that's a very valid point.

I do remember that many tens of millions of Americans got vaccinated. Back in '76 there were rumors that the flu would cause massive deaths which ended up in a mass vaccination program larger than anything before for an influenza. The vaccine was rushed out and there were problems with it (some sort of contamination) and 500 people ended up getting paralyzed .

I think the point of the Examiner and certainly the NY Times articles is that possible people ended up getting ill in the midst of a panic when there was no real need to rush things (which probably led to the contamination) . As I recall a huge number of people fell ill that year (including me in the 77 episode) but the death rate was like a regular flu - not the awful amount that many were predicting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. That is becuase in 1976 it was CONTAINED in an army post

what you saw in 1976 was NOT Influenza Type A virus from pig origin... and the President of the US went against his SCIENCE staffers declaring an emergency.

This one is of Pig origin. we have very little yearly flu in circulation and MOST of it IS pig in nature. Oh and the death rate is AHEAD of the yearly NORMAL rate.

By the way the vaccine followed the same protocols that the yearly vaccine did, and it has about the same rate of GBS that the yearly vaccine has... which is pretty damn low.

Now repeat after me, 1976 no swine flu in circulation, why it was not necessary. This year, we have a pandemic of the thing with many young dying in hospitals... and little to no ANNUAL flu in current circulation.

Hope that explains this as this is the cliffs notes.

[Techn0Girl]

15. I'm sorry but I can not understand what you are trying to say

None of it is making any sense to me and much of it I already know to be wrong (like your increased death rate claim, the confining to an Army post and the whole pig origin thing) so we may not be able to really communicate with each other on this issue. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Ok let me speak even more plainly

there are two main types of flu that affect humans. Most of them are TYPE B... non animal origin. That is what we had in circulation in 1976 and the only CONFIRMED cases of the Type A were at an Army post where it was contained. So we vaccinated people, with a rushed vaccine against a bug that was not going from person to person.

Today we have the type A, that is of animal origin. The usual flu, type B, is almost nowhere to be found.

Oh and the vaccine for both was developed using the same exact protocols.

Is this clear enough or do you need further clarification?

[SidDithers]

36. If you don't understand that post...

then perhaps you shouldn't be posting about this subject.

You're the perfect example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Sid

[stray cat]

27. People don't seem to understand that vaccines are not given if a disease is contained

your pearls of knowledge are being thrown to swine I'm afraid.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I still have to try, for all those lurking

who may actually learn something important.

:hi:

[LeftyMom]

20. Well, for starters, there was no H1N1 in the 70's.

Swine flu, yes. H1N1, not so much.

[Techn0Girl]

21. I'm afraid that you are wrong....

You can look it up for yourself.
FWIW I was around back then and remember it well as I was part of a military field hospital that was activated to help the Ft. Benning hospital that had become overwhelmed with Russian flu - another H1N1 variant that came a year or so after the H1N1 swine flu epidemic of 1976.


Anyhow I am not going to argue this or anything further with you - you can look it up if you choose ...or not. :)

[Warpy]

29. I'm afraid a little learning is a dangerous thing

and they made an unfortunate mistake in calling the present H1N1 flu "swine flu" because they scared the daylights out of people with a little learning.

This is not the same virus that provoked the mass immunization in 1976. The disease is not the same. The vaccine is not the same. There is no resemblance anywhere to 1976. Get 1976 out of your head. 1976 is irrelevant.

They called it swine flu because calling it Mexican flu would have given the bigots too much of an excuse to attack their neighbors.

The truth is that the CDC and FDA both expected to see more confirmed cases of GBS when this vaccine hit the market. Instead, they've seen far fewer cases than they expect every year with seasonal flu vaccination.

As for your concern about paralyzed people, perhaps you should read up on GBS. It is not only survivable, most people who get it make a complete recovery with no after effects. Very few people have persistent problems from it. It is a severe, scary illness but people GET OVER IT.

Please understand that this is not your field.

[uppityperson]

31. Correlation does not equal causation. Many people have been in car accidents after h1n1 vx.

Therefore the vaccine causes car accidents. People have been diagnosed with all sorts of stuff after getting a vaccine, but this does not mean the vaccine caused it. I am glad that at least he won't have to worry about getting influenza on top of having GBS.

Second point, as has been pointed out NUMEROUS times, Gbs has many causes and often the cause is unknown. Do a health forum search and you will be able to find those many links. Links more reputable than wiki.

Third point, The Examiner is about as reputable as The National Inquirer.

[stray cat]

26. H1N1 wasn't present back then - your history and science are faulty

they of course discontinued the vaccine in your historical example because the flu never became widespread. A vaccine isn't worth giving if there is no disease present in the population - common sense.

H1N1 is not technically a swine flu - it has components of human, avian and swine components -if you look up a real science article you can see what it is instead of a improper label of swine flu

[barbtries]

2. from the wiki page:

GBS may be a rare side-effect of influenza vaccines, with an incidence of about one case per million vaccinations.<11> There were indeed reports of GBS affecting about 500 people who had received swine flu immunizations in the 1976 U.S. outbreak of swine flu — 25 of which resulted in death from severe pulmonary complications, leading the government to end that immunization campaign<12>. However, the role of the vaccine in these cases has remained unclear, partly because GBS had an unknown but very low incidence rate in the general population making it difficult to assess whether the vaccine was really increasing the risk for GBS. Later research have concluded to the absence of or to very small increase in the GBS risk due to the 1976 swine flu vaccine<13>. Further, the GBS may not have been directly due to the vaccine but to a bacterial contamination of the vaccine.<14>

this would not be a reason not to get the vaccine. a person will still be more likely to die from the flu.

[Confusious]

5. The odds

Vaccine: 1 million to 1

Lightning: 5000 to 1


WE SHOULDN'T GO OUTSIDE!!!!

[barbtries]

8. there ya go

too lazy to look up the odds of being killed or maimed in a car accident, but: we shouldn't DRIVE!

risk is everywhere. we are in an influenza pandemic. good idea to get the shot as soon as possible.

[Confusious]

4. Sorry

They've given out 10 million doses already, and *MAYBE* this is the first problem.

10 million to 1. I'll take those odds and get the vaccine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. To be fair, ten million to six

of which only ONE is fully and completely confirmed.

Yeah I will take those odds.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. What dumbass linked GBS to this years vaccine?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

13. Your title is misleading

It should read something like "10 million H1N1 vaccines delivered with only one known case of nerve damage". As I pointed out to you in another thread, that number is infinitesimally small and statistically insignificant.

[Techn0Girl]

16. We'll have to agree to disagree...

As far as I know from what I have read in the articles the CDC did confirm that the GB Syndrome paralysis was indeed linked to the vaccination so the title stands.

I do understand the point that you are trying to make however.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

18. From what I've read

The GBS diagnosis hasn't been linked to the vaccination that the young man received, but that it occurred soon enough after the vax for them to look at it further. A slight uptick in the occurrence of GBS from flu vaccinations (whether from the H1N1 vax or the regular old flu vax) has been reported, but it's only increased it from like 1.65 out of 100,000 people to 1.80 out of 100,000 people (or something like that). Again, it's a statistically insignificant increase for a vaccine that has saved thousands of lives.

Your title was misleading in that it mentions "reports" (plural), when you're talking about a single "report" (singular).

[Techn0Girl]

19. Well I'll change that title then :)

tried to but can't anymore - timed out - oh well consider it done in spirit then

[Warren Stupidity]

33. You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts

The CDC has not confirmed any such thing. Please provide the evidence for your assertion that "the CDC did confirm that the GB Syndrome paralysis was indeed linked to the vaccination ".

[Techn0Girl]

22. Leaked British letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America

Just some more interesting news - albeit a bit old Aug 15,2000

From The Daily Mail

A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.

The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html#ixzz0WuixiYPO

[newfie11]

23. Just wanted to say

my sister was one that came down with guillain barre in 1976 following the flu shot. It was diagnosed by her doctor and she was told it was caused from the shot.This can be debated till the cows come home. I am not saying the new vaccine causes this but I think the old one did.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/health/09vaccine.html (in case you cannot access it the following is an except from it)


Still, many experts consider the matter settled. The Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences concluded after an extensive review in 2003 that the “evidence favored acceptance of a causal relationship” between the 1976 vaccine and the syndrome. It stopped short, however, of saying the evidence “established” a causal relationship.

“It’s really not all that controversial anymore,” said Dr. Lawrence B. Schonberger, who as a young epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 1976 gathered the initial evidence that led to the vaccination program being halted that December. Dr. Schonberger, who is still with the agency, found that for people who got vaccinated, the rate of getting a diagnosis of Guillain-Barré in the next six weeks was more than seven times as high as for those who did not get the vaccine.

In all, the vaccination resulted in nearly one extra case of Guillain-Barré for every 100,000 people immunized, which would translate into roughly 450 cases for the 45 million people who got the shot.

Some critics challenged the findings, arguing that some diagnoses were mistaken and that vaccinated people were more likely to self-report having Guillain-Barré than others because it was in the news.

But some studies canvassed health records for all diagnosed cases and had the diagnoses confirmed by experts. One of the leading critics worked on his own study, which confirmed the magnitude of the increased risk.

The more intriguing question is how the vaccine triggered the syndrome. One hypothesis was that the vaccine, rushed into production, was contaminated with Campylobacter, a type of bacterium that does cause Guillain-Barré. The Institute of Medicine said this was unlikely but could not be totally excluded.

A more likely explanation is that something in the vaccine resembled something in the nerve cells. When the body’s immune system mounted an attack on that component of the vaccine, it also then attacked the lookalike in the nerves.

Irving Nachamkin, a professor of pathology and laboratory medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, examined some 1976 vaccine that had been saved by a scientist in Texas. In a paper published last year in The Journal of Infectious Diseases, he and colleagues reported that mice given the vaccine made antibodies that reacted with gangliosides, which are components of nerve cells. An antibody attack on gangliosides is part of the disease mechanism of Guillain-Barré.

[LeftishBrit]

28. Two points

One is: the physicians were referring to the 1976 problems, and the need to avoid anything similar - not to any new developments.

The second is that the Daily Mail is a MOST unreliable source on absolutely anything, as they try to 'spin' everything to make a sensation out of it (they also happen to be extremely right-wing and as racist and xenophobic as they can get away with).

Any exposure to an infection can unfortunately cause GBS in people who are susceptible, but it is more likely to happen with the flu itself than with the vaccine.

[Chemisse]

24. This is interesting, but

With the new swine flu statistics - 22 million infected to 4000 dead, the risk is still higher to have the flue itself.

Side effects from vaccinations DO happen, but usually they are so rare that the vaccination is a far better bet.

Sorry everybody slammed on you. Some people are so obsessive about defending vaccines. you would think people were being injected with holy water, and they can't even converse about it without being rude.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. Or we think this crap gets reposted every day.

The OP was not about 'having a conversation' about the risk analysis of vaccination, the OP was about declaring as fact a lot of misinformation, including for example that appropriate authorities have declared a causal link between this vaccine and GBS. The OP was about fear mongering. Quite the opposite from your statement that I for example think that "people were being injected with holy water", which by the way would probably kill you or make you quite ill. It is difficult to have a polite conversation when the original post is uninformed nonsense.

The risk analysis for this vaccine is really quite simple: if you are in one of the at-risk categories for serious consequences from H1N1, you should get the vaccine, as the risk from vaccine side effects is vanishingly small compared to the risk to you from the flu. Just ask your doctor. He or she will tell you the same thing.

Scaring people out of getting this vaccine based on misinformation is ethically challenged.

[Chemisse]

38. If this gets posted every day, then there is a lot of fear out there

And it should be addressed patiently.

Without checking the link, if this is fact:

"A fourteen year old boy has been diagnosed with GBS, hours after receiving his swine flu shot. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 5 other people have been diagnosed with GBS across the nation since the swine flu vaccine program began in early October."

Then what is wrong with her/him posting it, and talking about concerns regarding the GB connection decades ago?

Like many people, she reads this, gets worried, and could use a chance to discuss it and put it in perspective. You can't say she did not post this for a discussion, because people jumped on her from the get-go. Naturally, the OP must then assume a defensive pose. I felt sorry for her because, as a newcomer to DU, she probably had no idea how she would be slammed.

[irislake]

40. Good point about the holy water.

I get the impression that there is fanaticism on both sides.

[stray cat]

25. You are more likely to get it from the flu as a complication

[Warren Stupidity]

32. not this shit again

another day on DU another vaccine fear campaign.

There is not substantiated link between GBS and the H1N1 vaccine of '76 or the H1N1 vaccine of 2009. People who get vaccinated may get GBS. People who do not get vaccinated may get GBS. People who get vaccinated have no documented substantiated increased risk of GBS over those who do not get vaccinated.

The risk from H1N1 is far greater than the risk from GBS.

[HuckleB]

35. Not the SF Examiner.

And nothing there, or anywhere else backs up your claims.

[HuckleB]

37. Study: Mercury levels not elevated in children with autism

http://www.examiner.com/x-15966-Norfolk-Health-Care-Examiner~y2009m10d21-Study-Mercury-levels-not-elevated-in-children-with-autism

Check.

[astral]

39. If there is a timeline correlation between the vaccine

and the GBS, there is a high likelihood of cause and effect. How about someone who got a 'stroke' a week after a flu shot, but was not diagnosed for GBS at all? Happens! How would you ever know how many people got GBS or "a stroke" shortly after their flu shot? No data is taken on these things whatsoever.

Just because this topic can't be PROVEN to be true, it also can't be proven to be false and intelligent discussion is warranted on the issue, not venomous attacks on how stupid people are for having The Opposing Point of View.

I have reason to be concerned. I am interested in seeing both sides of this topic.

[Euromutt]

41. How many cases of GBS did the CDC report last year? Or the year before?

That seems the obvious question to ask here. After all, if the number of cases of GBS is not different (to a statistically significant level) from years in which no H1N1 vaccine was administered, there's no correlation.

According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/gbsfactsheet.html):

The precise rate of GBS in adolescents is unknown. Data from the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project and the Health Care Utilization Project on GBS incidence persons aged 11 to 19 years indicate a background annual incidence of 1 to 2 cases per 100,000 persons per year.

Okay, so it's perfectly possible that the number of cases in October and November is fairly typical, in which case, there's no reason to assume these cases have any causal relation with the H1N1 vaccine.