Flu shots don’t save seniors' lives, study finds

[Why Syzygy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6969077/



CHICAGO - A new study based on more than three decades of U.S. data suggests that giving flu shots to the elderly has not saved any lives. (...)

No plans for new guidelines
However, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta plans no change in its advice on who should get flu shots, saying the NIH research isn’t enough to shift gears.

“We think the best way to help the elderly is to vaccinate them,” said CDC epidemiologist William Thompson. “These results don’t contribute to changing vaccine policy.” (...)

Older Americans should keep their risk in perspective, said Dr. Lisa Schwartz and Dr. Steven Woloshin, senior researchers at the VA Outcomes Group, a small group of researchers trying to promote the straightforward presentation of medical information.

For the average senior citizen, the annual risk of dying from the flu is low: about 1 in 1,000. They said senior citizens still should try to get flu shots, but shouldn’t panic if vaccine isn’t available.



"There is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know that they are worthless, but they go on selling them, anyway."------Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the FDA)
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/morris_h.html

[Old Coot]

1. Vaccinate Children Instead of Elderly.

From the article:

"The flu vaccine is less effective in the elderly than in younger people. It works, but not very well, said Ira Longini, a biostatistics professor at Emory University’s Rollins School of Public Health and a proponent of vaccinating schoolchildren.

While it’s smart for senior citizens to get their yearly flu shots because it can decrease their risk of getting sick, he said, a smarter government strategy would emphasize shots for children, ages 5 to 18. His statistical models show that strategy could save more elderly Americans from hospital visits and death."

[Why Syzygy]

2. Yes.

The reasoning was that school children are the ones who spread flu the most.

[trotsky]

3. This has actually been suspected for some time.

Mainly because it takes more to trigger an immune response in older individuals. The flu vaccine just isn't virulent enough to get that response, unfortunately. However it does no harm, and quoting dowsing quack site whale.to is good for a laugh.

[xchrom]

4. oooh -- i didn't see that --

that hysterical.

[Why Syzygy]

5. If you don't like that source for the quote,

use one of these others:

http://www.google.com/search?q=anthony+morris+vaccine&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS245US246

Or how about a book that quotes him?

From Publishers Weekly
Journalists Bookchin and Schumacher argue that for nine years, from 1954 to 1963, almost every dose of polio vaccine produced in the worldâ€"and the 98 million Americans who received polio vaccinationsâ€"was contaminated with a cancer-causing virus from the monkey kidneys used to develop the vaccine. Although the polio vaccine developed by Dr. Jonas Salk virtually ended polio as a threatening disease, the authors detail how "the screening techniques and observation periods that Salk and the vaccine manufacturers employed were not capable of always catching the contaminants." This sordid story spells out how repeated research studies showing that the "SV40" virus was in the vaccine were dismissed by federal health officials, so that "there would be no warning to consumers that the vaccine they and their children were receiving contained a live monkey virus whose effect on humans was entirely unknown." In the second part, the authors contend that even today such organizations as the National Institutes of Health continue to dismiss study results, even though numerous studies have shown that SV40 is capable of causing cancer in humans. The final and most horrific part of the story reports that Lederle Laboratories, the sole oral vaccine supplier in the U.S. from 1977 onward, continued to use monkey kidneys possibly infected by the SV40 virus in its manufacturing process until oral polio vaccine was removed from the market as late as January 2000. This meticulously researched, levelheaded and well-written book should stir up considerable debate. Because the authors never become alarmist, this solid work of investigative reporting carries considerable weight, and deserves to be read by a large audience.

http://www.amazon.com/Virus-Vaccine-Contaminated-Cancers-Government/dp/0312342721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243475410&sr=1-1

http://books.google.com/books?id=uiAQ0k7-N_0C&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=anthony+morris+vaccine&source=bl&ots=VtgTb3zkci&sig=bxsEpV_VwGJvoR5_zvrMBx8UYeI&hl=en&ei=eO0dSpzWEMLcmQfUzoC3Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#PPP1,M1

[trotsky]

6. A wacky conspiracy book quoting a wacky conspiracy nut?

No way!
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/163/

[Why Syzygy]

7. You're an inspiration. nt

[trotsky]

8. No, that honor goes to whale.to and all who quote from it.

Where else on the web will you find both the anti-Semetic piece of garbage known as The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion AND the insane ramblings of the Maniacal World Control Thru The Jesuit Order?

Very disturbing to see you quote from them.

[Why Syzygy]

9. I'm not familiar with the entire site

nor do I endorse it. As I showed, the quote is available from other sources.

You obviously care more about digging up the back alley than dealing with the quote as presented.
Not MY problem.

[trotsky]

10. One is known by the company one keeps.

What parts of whale.to do you agree with?

[Why Syzygy]

11. crickets.

I'm not having this discussion with you. Perhaps you want to ponder why the former vaccine chief of the FDA made such a comment.
Otherwise :shrug: you are not someone with whom I care to dialog.

[trotsky]

12. I understand your hesitation.

Whale.to is a despicable, deplorable, disgusting site and I totally understand your unwillingness to even acknowledge that you linked to it. Now you see the kind of insane racist hateful wacko bullshit that the antivax movement is tied to - hopefully you learned something.

[Why Syzygy]

14. Since I know a lot of DU

members here have questions about the vaccine issue, I'll resist your unhealthy all or nothing thinking and not lump them all into one group based on the content of one website.

[trotsky]

16. It's one thing to "have questions about the vaccine issue."

It's another to suggest that vaccines are part of a global conspiracy to assassinate, control minds, and/or enslave people. Which is what a lot of whale.to content suggests. I had hoped maybe you learned something, but it appears you haven't. Hopefully other readers of this thread did.

[truedelphi]

21. It is very hard to fight such a fight here on DU.

If you have an objection to any aspect of vaccine protocols as pushed by the Pharmaceutical Industry, even a small opposoition, you are labelled a whack job.

My main objection to the vaccine industry is the notion of injecting day old babies to as many as nine vaccines - including a hepatitis shot that is so risky my personal physician would not sign off on it for me whent I was 41!

As far as the elderly - much of what keeps them safe during the influenza season is the fact that they have been on the earth for many decades, and so probably have anti bodies in their blood streams that contain protection for certain influenzas. WIthout help from vaccines being needed.

[Why Syzygy]

22. I'm not interested in fighting about it.

I wondered if the flu vaccine has proved to actually save lives. I looked it up. The result is the OP. I haven't located information for other age groups yet. I think people might be interested in the life saving potential. Unfortunately, I tagged on a quote from a source that could be attacked and opens the door for the loonies to swarm. There's always another day... ;)

[trotsky]

27. Yeah, there are lots of loonies at whale.to.

You definitely don't want to open their door and let them swarm.

[trotsky]

26. The whackjobs are the ones who push conspiracy theories.

Like the Protocols document, or that "big pharma" just wants to kill everyone (and the FDA helps them), etc.

My main objection to the vaccine industry is the notion of injecting day old babies to as many as nine vaccines

That is completely untrue. Please do not repeat false statements.

[truedelphi]

30. It is entirely true.

Day old infants receive as many as nine vaccinations. Nine.

And nowadays, the "norm" for a baby is being jaundiced. Yep, seventy per cent of all infants are juandiced.

In another twenty years, people will not even remember that back in the day, babies were born without jaundice.

[trotsky]

32. Prove it.

Post the schedule that shows day-old infants receive 9 vaccines.

Go ahead.

[truedelphi]

34. Just off the top of my head, I can think of six -

Varicella, DTaP, HepB, Hib, PCV, and Polio.

[SidDithers]

35. Varicella given at 12 months...

DTaP at 2 months
HepB at Birth
HiB at 2 months
PCV at 2 months
Polio at 2 months.

So, 1 for 6. Or is it 9?

American Academy of Pediatrics recommended immunization schedule here:
http://www.cispimmunize.org/IZSchedule_Childhood.pdf

[trotsky]

38. So to you, "proving it" is just saying so? You are utterly and totally wrong.

:rofl:

There is one and ONLY ONE vaccine routinely given to infants right after birth, and that is HepB. The first DTaP, Hib, PCV, and Polio shots aren't until 2 months. Varicella isn't until 1 year.

http://www.cispimmunize.org/IZSchedule_Childhood.pdf

Thank Koresh vaccination opponents regularly embarrass themselves with their ignorance, or more people might just take their paranoid ramblings seriously.

[uppityperson]

39. They are not give to "day old babies".

[Why Syzygy]

36. Schedule for baby born yesterday

(note how many follow up vaccines there are!)

http://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/kidstuff/newscheduler_le/schedule.asp
At Birth Hepatitis B
Dose 1 of 3 Hepatitis B virus (chronic inflammation of the liver, life-long complications) May 28, 2009
1 to 2 months
(part of well-baby visit) Hepatitis B
Dose 2 of 3 Hepatitis B virus (chronic inflammation of the liver, life-long complications) Jun 27, 2009 to Jul 27, 2009
2 months
(part of well-baby visit) DTaP
Dose 1 of 5 Diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough) Jul 27, 2009
Hib
Dose 1 of 4 Infections of the blood, brain, joints, or lungs (pneumonia) Jul 27, 2009
Polio (IPV)
Dose 1 of 4 Polio Jul 27, 2009
Pneumococcal conjugate (PCV7)
Dose 1 of 4 Infections of the blood, brain, joints, inner ears, or lungs (pneumonia) Jul 27, 2009
Rotavirus
Dose 1 of 3 Rotavirus diarrhea (and vomiting) Jul 27, 2009

[SidDithers]

37. So, a day-old infant gets 1 vaccine...

which is kinda different from 9, right?

Sid

[Why Syzygy]

15. btw...

the site says that the Protocols are OFFENSIVE. It is NOT recommending adherence. You seem to be the sort that doesn't trust others to be able to handle controversial issues. You merely slam the door. If some people want to discuss dark things, they have that right.

[trotsky]

17. You really need to read more carefully.

Despite a general misconception amongst certain politically-aligned groups and ill-informed individuals - including Jews and non-Jews alike - that the Protocols are a 'proven fraud', this is not the case, as I will show.

The cry of 'anti-Semitic' is a standard one and almost automatic from ill-informed, if often well-intentioned individuals who have little background knowledge of the vast history and consciousness of the perpetrators of the 'world revolution'. The majority of people remain drastically unaware of the conspiracy because a vital aspect of the conspiracy is to hide itself behind many walls of secrecy, as the following information will show. Those that would call 'anti-semitism', or say 'there is no conspiracy', are amongst the greatest victims of the very conspiracy they vehemently deny.

...

The main point pertinent to this work is that the plan and execution of this agenda was predicted and detailed in the Protocols, before the Zionist plan began to be put into action openly on the world stage. More dramatically, however, the agenda outlined in the Protocols was foreshadowed by over 2,000 years of similar documents, edicts and statements.

The introduction isn't saying that the Protocols are offensive, it's saying that DISMISSAL or DENIAL of them is what's "offensive."

Want to embarrass yourself some more, or do you want to give up now? Whale.to clearly does not condemn the Protocols document, and in fact links directly to an anti-Semetic discussion board.

Fucking neo-Nazi bullshit is what whale.to is pushing. Be damn careful discussing those "dark things."

[Why Syzygy]

20. This is the part I read

and this is my final post on the matter. It IS concerned with 'conspiracy', and there's no profit in debating it. I am NOT familiar with all things neo-nazi and admit I am unqualified to give a full account. You may be entirely correct in your assessment. I'm not ready to accept JUST YOUR WORD FOR IT. You don't carry that kind of authority in my life.

However, I will defend my reading skills to the point I used them in this context.

It would be madness to ignore the possibility that this document is genuine and authored by those claimed, simply because certain people find it offensive. Because if it is genuine, then people absolutely should find it offensive! It is the greatest single betrayal of both Jews and Gentiles imaginable.

EOM

[trotsky]

25. Yeah, you're reading it wrong.

It has nothing to do, however, with me having some kind of "authority" in your life. ROFL. You're just wrong. Please go ask for other opinions since you don't believe me.

Because if it is genuine, then people absolutely should find it offensive! It is the greatest single betrayal of both Jews and Gentiles imaginable.

The people who believe that the Protocols document is real ARE scared by it. Who wouldn't be, if it were actually true that some secret cabal of Jews conspires to control everyone's lives. That's why they want others to be offended, and that's why you should be ashamed of pulling material from a site that features such bullshit.

But hey, you don't like me, so don't bother accepting anything I have to say about it. Feel free to embrace all the anti-Jew hatred and conspiracy horsecrap you want.

[SidDithers]

18. Wow, now you're defending whale.to?...nt

Sid

[trotsky]

19. It's the price one pays when one is dedicated to an agenda rather than the truth. n/t

[fair trade soy chai]

23. Wow...I was waiting for you to tell this naysayer that he isn't helping anyone with his remarks...

But apparently he is very productive to this forum, in your opinion.:eyes:

[uppityperson]

24. Heh, welcome back and gone so soon.

Yes, Why Syzygy is more productive than you, the Amazing Reincarnating Troll. And you didn't even tell me hi before getting ts'd. tiny tear

[trotsky]

28. Hey, at least Why Syzygy has our favorite troll on her side!

How sweet!

[Why Syzygy]

29. It appears I hurt your feelings last time.

It's only due to your extraordinary popularity with the less fortunate that poses a problem.
Think about it.

[stray cat]

13. Vaccines provide herd immunity which prevents spreading - ie if elderly are not exposed

because no one around them is ill - they receive indirect protection. I would prefer an elderly parent with asthma not be exposed to the flu

[xchrom]

33. you're making sense!!!

i don't think you're allowed to do that in the heath forum.

[DCKit]

31. K&R for the comments.

I don't usually find the fun until after it's been locked.