Fertility treatments.

[FM Arouet666]

Anyone have any experiences? Just started the whole process and I am a little lost. And yes, for those that know I am a doc, but not an OB/GYN. I seem to have dumped the little bit of OB that I once knew long ago. My impressions and information thus far.

I got handed a cup on day one.

Urine?
No, semen.

Just great, not really in the mood at the moment, but thanks.
It is OK, you can use the bathroom.

Fine if you must have a sample today. Wait a sec, nothing in here to read, just Redbook and some shitty travel mag. This is just not going to work for me.
Ok, you can bring it in from home, just keep it warm.

Warm? Like how? Microwave perhaps? No, keep it in your crotch.
Well Ok, I will get back to you on this.

Lovely first day, but my part was easy, the little guys are producing good stuff and now my wife is in for the inquisition.

Pelvic ultrasounds, multiple pelvic ultrasounds......
Follicles are not maturing, endometriosis and now a possible polyp in the uterus. Looks like a lot more tests and then some possible treatments.

Any experiences out there in DU land..................

[tama]

1. Not something you want to hear

but there is allready too many of us... and this is the century of "ecological credit crunch", :(

Please, give it a second thought, serious and deep. If after that you still want to go through the treatment, all the best! :)

[dropkickpa]

6. Wow

You are a deep well of compassion. If someone is going through all the testing that his wife already has, something tells me they really have thought serious and deep, unlike you. Infertility is fucking painful and you just had to get a kick in there, huh?

[tama]

20. Believe me

with what is coming - the collapse of civilization and dieoff - fertile parenthood is million times more fucking painfull.

[Dorian Gray]

8. Unnecessarily rude

and truly horrible thing to say to someone who wants to be a parent.

[tama]

19. Still time to wake up

and take a good look into what kind of world they plan to make kids.

Yes, I'm insensitive and rude asshole who don't give a damn about the sensitivities of wannabe artificial parents. I care only about the kids.

And don't get started on fertility treatments. Dropping fertility is nature's way of telling us we are doing something horribly wrong and that there are allready too many of us. Not to mention there are children dying and suffering from curable diseases while the doctors give fertility treatments to rich fucks who think having a child is a "right".

[Dorian Gray]

21. lovely

[tama]

23. Party on

don't give a fuck.

[Crunchy Frog]

25. You're accusing people on DU of being "artificial parents"?

Maybe you're the one who's an artificial human being. :shrug:

[FM Arouet666]

28. LOL spunky response

Doctors give treatments to rich fucks...... love it. Oh, and sorry for the pun, "spunky response" Yeah, your basic premise is valid, I am still have concerns about bring another life into the world. A world already over crowded and full of despair. I will take the best, thanks.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. Some thoughts

1: Hum Reprod Update. 2008 Jul-Aug;14(4):345-57. Epub 2008 Jun 4.Click here to read Links
Oxidative stress and antioxidants: exposure and impact on female fertility.
Ruder EH, Hartman TJ, Blumberg J, Goldman MB.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802, USA. [e-mail]

BACKGROUND: Reproductive failure is a significant public health concern. Although relatively little is known about factors affecting fertility and early pregnancy loss, a growing body of literature suggests that environmental and lifestyle factors play an important role. There is sufficient evidence to hypothesize that diet, particularly its constituent antioxidants, and oxidative stress (OS) may influence the timing and maintenance of a viable pregnancy. We hypothesize that conditions leading to OS in the female affect time-to-pregnancy and early pregnancy loss.
METHODS: We review the epidemiology of female infertility related to antioxidant defenses and oxidation and examine potential sources of OS from the ovarian germ cell through the stages of human pregnancy and pregnancy complications related to infertility. Articles were identified through a search of the PubMed database.

RESULTS: Female OS is a likely mediator of conception and threshold levels for OS exist, dependent on anatomic location and stage of preconception. CONCLUSIONS: Prospective pregnancy studies with dietary assessment and collection of biological samples prior to conception with endpoints of time-to-pregnancy and early pregnancy loss are needed.

1: Obstet Gynecol Surv. 2007 May;62(5):335-47; quiz 353-4.Click here to read Links
The role of oxidative stress in spontaneous abortion and recurrent pregnancy loss: a systematic review.
Gupta S, Agarwal A, Banerjee J, Alvarez JG.

Reproductive Research Center, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio, USA.

Human reproduction is not considered a highly efficient biological process. Before the end of the first trimester, 30%-50% of conceptions end in spontaneous abortion. Most losses occur at the time of implantation. 15%-20% of clinical pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions. Recurrent pregnancy loss is a frustrating clinical problem both for clinicians and patients. Recurrent pregnancy loss affects 0.5%-3% of women in the reproductive age group, and between 50%-60% of recurrent pregnancy losses are idiopathic.

Oxidative stress-induced damage has been hypothesized to play a role in spontaneous abortion, idiopathic recurrent pregnancy loss, hydatidiform mole, defective embryogenesis, and drug-induced teratogenicity. Some studies implicate systemic and placental oxidative stress in the pathophysiology of abortion and recurrent pregnancy loss.

Oxidant-induced endothelial damage, impaired placental vascularization and immune malfunction have all been proposed to play a role in the pathophysiology of idiopathic recurrent pregnancy loss. Oxidative stress-induced placental dysfunction may be a common cause of the multifactorial and polygenic etiologies of abortion, recurrent pregnancy loss, defective embryogenesis, hydatidiform mole, and drug-induced teratogenic effects. Oxidative stress-induced modification of phospholipids has been linked to the formation of antiphospholipid antibodies in the antiphospholipid syndrome. The objective of this review was to examine the association between oxidative stress, spontaneous abortion and recurrent pregnancy loss, based on the published literature.

We conducted an extensive literature search utilizing the databases of Medline, CINAHL, and Cochrane from 1986 to 2005. The following keywords were used: oxidative stress, abortion, recurrent pregnancy loss, reactive oxygen species, antioxidants, fetal development, and embryopathies. We conducted an electronic search, as well as a manual search of cross-references. We have included all studies in the English language found in the literature focusing on oxidative stress and its association with abortions, recurrent pregnancy loss and drug-induced teratogenicity. The role of antioxidant vitamins for primary prevention of oxidative stress-induced pathologies needs to be investigated further.

TARGET AUDIENCE: Obstetricians & Gynecologists, Family Physicians. LEARNING OBJECTIVES: After completion of this article, the reader should be able to state that the causes of spontaneous and recurrent abortion are multifaceted, however, some of the causes may be preventable and also explain that the role of oxidative stress during pregnancy and adverse pregnancy outcomes has a basis in pathophysiology, although the role of oxidative stress and the treatment of oxidative stress during or before pregnancy remains speculative.

[cosmik debris]

4. Dr. Google is back!

We missed you.

How is that "car that runs on water" working out for you? Are you getting a lot of free energy from it?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

14. My guess is that car that runs on water

Ran out of gas!

:rofl:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. Not too bright this one....

http://www.hy-drive.com/main/Default.asp?Page=88


The first studies were carried out by NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, CA.

“The J.P.L. concept has unquestionably demonstrated that the addition of small quantities of gaseous hydrogen to the primary gasoline significantly reduces CO and NOx exhaust emissions while improving engine thermal efficiency”

A study at the University of Calgary by G.A. Karim on the effect of adding hydrogen to a methane-fuelled engine says:

“... the addition of some hydrogen to the methane, speeds up the rates of initiation and subsequent propagation of flames over the whole combustible mixture range, including for very fast-flowing mixtures. This enhancement of flame initiation and subsequent flame propagation, reduces the ignition delay and combustion period in both spark ignition and compression ignition engines. This should lead to noticeable improvements in the combustion process and performance.”

SAE Report: A Before Treatment Method for Reduction of Emissions in Diesel Engines
(SAE Tech Paper 2000-01-2791, Bade Shrestha et al) Emission Reductions:

* PM 60%
* CO 30%
* NOx 19%


CEE Analysis: Heavy-Duty Exhaust Emission Test Report
Emission Reductions:

* HC 74.5%
* CO 14.6%
* NOx 11.1%
* PM 81.4%


SAE Report: Performance and Fuel Consumption Estimation of a Hydrogen-Enriched Gasoline Engine at Part-Load Operation
(SAE Tech Paper 2002-01-2196, Fontana et al) Reduction in Fuel Consumption:

* 12% to 50% over range of torques


Additional useful reading on the efficacy of hydrogen injection may also be found in:

Investigating combustion enhancement and emissions reduction with the addition of 2H2 + O2 to a SI engine (SAE Tech Paper 2003-32-0011, D’Andrea et al)

Spectral analysis and chemiluminescence imaging of hydrogen addition to HSDI diesel combustion under conventional and low-temperature conditions (SAE Tech Paper 2004-01-2919, Lu et al)

Hydrogen addition for improved lean burn capability of slow and fast burning natural gas combustion chambers (SAE Tech Paper 2002-01-2686, Tunestal et al)

Experimental evaluation of SI engine operation supplemented by hydrogen gas from a compact plasma boosted reformer (SAE Tech Paper 2000-01-2206, Green et al)

Influence of hydrogen-rich-gas addition on combustion, pollutant formation and efficiency of an IC-SI engine (SAE Tech Paper 2004-01-0972, Conte et al)

A numeric investigation of NOx formation in counterflow CH4/H2/Air diffusion flames (IMECE 2006-14458, Guo et al)

While Hy-Drive continues to establish Hydrogen as solution for the inefficiencies of the combustion engine, others are also pursuing hydrogen-enhanced combustion. Click here for more details.

[dropkickpa]

5. Read the OP

[FM Arouet666]

29. Thanks, the duck just scared the shit out of me. n/t

[Happyhippychick]

3. I think the hardest part is the constant "hurry up and wait" game.

There is so much of that with fertility treatments. It's stressful on a marriage, try to keep your sense of humor (can be difficult but it is crucial) and remember that your wife is going through hell. Not that the husband doesn't go through hell but we women somehow feel that we are mostly responsible for the failures.

Best of luck to you. They can do so much and I know dozens of miraculous stories, keep the faith.

[Dorian Gray]

9. That is true

Once my husband was free and clear, I've been hard on myself.

Sadly, endometriosis isn't that uncommon in females in their thirties who have not gotten pregnant yet. Intellectually I know that it's not my fault, but on some of my more "tender" days (usually day one of my cycle), I get hard on myself. Luckily I have a husband who is loving, funny, and supportive. It makes a HUGE difference.

[FM Arouet666]

30. bingo, you hit the nail on the head.

Just a couple of weeks into this and already like 10 arguments, doesn't help when I am a surgeon and have a tendency to under appreciate the anxiety that a patient, eg my wife, goes through in dealing with procedures. We haven't gotten to hell yet, but I can see the flames on the horizon. Thanks for the post.

[Dorian Gray]

7. In the last couple of months

I went through the whole gambit. Fertility tests. (You have the best end of the deal! One deposit and you're done!)

I had a bunch of tests (invasive tests). None were really as bad as I feared. (I'm a wimp!) But, the hysterospingogram, all the x-rays and the biopsies and blood tests (I think 26 vials of blood in all) tested for every single thing that could possibly be wrong.

I received a diagnosis of endometriosis, not uncommon in an older female. Just two weeks ago, I had laproscopic surgery in order to fix the problems, and I am meeting with my doctor tomorrow, hopefully to be given the green light to try again, naturally. I also had a polyp and needed a D and C, which they did during the other surgery. All in all, I was in the hospital for 5 hours. Knocked out for the surgery, and given some morphine in my IV at the end of it all. (The best part!)

I haven't been able to exercise for the last two weeks, but after the first three days, I was in pretty good shape. I still have a big bruise on my belly, but the staples were removed last week.

Funny you are asking about this so shortly after my experience.

All in all, unpleasant, but not horrible. And hopefully you and your wife will get the results you are seeking after all the treatments. (And me too!) :)

[SidDithers]

18. Sounds very similar to what my wife and I went through...

our kids are now 10 & 8 :)

Best of luck to you and your partner :hug:

Sid

[Dorian Gray]

22. Thank you Sid

so sweet.

I'm glad that you and your wife have two beautiful children!

[FM Arouet666]

31. Thanks this helps a lot

We just got back from the doc yesterday and my wife is forming a follicle, initially he thought she was anovulatory. He canceled the balloon sono-hystogram, the placement of a balloon in the uterus with sonography to confirm a polyp. My wife didn't sleep for two days and was full of anxiety as we drove up. I thought she was just exaggerating at first but she really had sweaty palms like she gets when I drive aggressively on the freeway so I knew she was really scared.

Anyway, the doc told us that she needs a hysterosalpingogram, maybe a loop polypectomy and he recommends laparoscopy. Needless to say, we have a lot of "processing" to do. Thanks for the post.

[Celebration]

10. friends of ours went through the whole bit

Had a sweet, healthy girl after in vitro fertilization from the dad. The "problem" was with his sperm-- I suspect due to his being a too dedicated runner, extremely thin and athletic.

Their second child was from the regular method. He went to a western trained acupuncturist/nurse, and she gave him some Chinese herb that was specifically made for male infertility. It worked right away and they were able to save a lot of trouble and expense.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. I was instructed to read the OP so I did and this is what I have

to offer.

>>Follicles are not maturing, endometriosis and now a possible polyp in the uterus.<<



http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/11/2270
Antioxidants and reactive oxygen species in follicular fluid of women undergoing IVF: relationship to outcome

CONCLUSIONS: These results provide further evidence that ROS play a role in female reproductive function.


http://www.endometriosis.org/research-antioxidants.html

Deficient intake of antioxidant molecules is related to peripheral and peritoneal oxidative stress in endometriosis

The researchers showed that antioxidant intake (vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium and zinc) in the women with endometriosis showed a significative statistical difference when compared with the control group, including the total group and those stratified in pathology stages. The lipoperoxidation status in plasma and peritoneal fluid of women with endometriosis did not show statistical difference versus healthy women. When data was stratified according to the severity of pathology, the percentage of lipoperoxidation status increased in plasma in the severe grade of endometriosis and in peritoneal fluid in the moderate and severe grades.

And some people who share a common concern:
http://www.hopeforfibroids.org/faqs%20listing.html

[FM Arouet666]

32. Interesting, you hitting me with too much info this late at night.

But I suspect that the light of day may not convince me that anti-oxidants are the key to all of life's little problems. I will get back to you.....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

37. No.... antioxidants are not the key to all of life's little problems..

sorry if it comes across that way. What probably is true though is that ROS plays more of a role in more disease processes than we have come to realize. There is little doubt that industrial farming contributes to decreased nutritional content of foods, which is a contributing factor in neurodegenerative conditions.

[moc]

13. Yes, I have some experience. Some thoughts...

First, make sure you are working with a board-certified reproductive endocrinologist, not just an OB/GYN who "dabbles" in fertility treatment. Doing the latter can waste a lot of unnecessary time.

Try and see if your wife can get some support from other women in the same boat. Dealing with infertility is an unbelievably gut-wrenching experience that I'm not sure a man can understand. Yes, producing your "sample" is no picnic, I know, but compared to what the woman goes through, it's a piece of cake - the needles, the tests (oh God, that HSG can be a real bitch, especially if a woman had endo), the every-other-day transvaginal sonos and bloodwork monitoring follie development, being petrified that you'll trigger at the wrong time, becoming obsessed with every twitch (could I be pg?!), the surge of hope, then the crushing depression when you discover it didn't work...again. Month after month after month. You start obsessing about pregnant women. You can't go out in public without seeing pregnant women everywhere it seems. It is incredibly isolating for a woman.

It's been over six years since we were blessed with our second child, and the pain of those years has mostly faded. Still, dealing with infertility is something that changes you forever.

If you have any specific questions, or if your wife does, let me know. We were successful conceiving our first with unmedicated IUI. #2 was pergonal/IUI.

:hug:

[Dorian Gray]

15. Congratulations

on your two children, Moc.

I'm sort of going through the crazy emotional upheavals of the trying. We've been trying for 18 months, and it's true that those emotions can take over, especially with the agony of defeat that a new menstrual cycle can bring.

And these times can be really trying for relationships, too. A dear friend of mine has had problems with her husband as a result of not being able to get pregnant. They aren't handling the stress well, and rather than coming together, they are both moving toward their individual comfort zones, only communicating when they argue. It's very sad to watch them fall apart like that.

I only bring that up because the problems are real, but with the strength of a solid relationship you should be able to work together.

And if infertility can't be overcome with the available treatments, there is always adoption to consider. (If I were diagnosed infertile, I'd happily go that route.) But it's not a process for everyone, just as in vitro isn't. (I don't need to do in vitro, though I've had many friends who have done so. For some, very successful. For others, very heartbreaking. I'd really discuss the options with a doctor and with your partner before going that route. It's perfectly viable, but it can be emotionally and financially draining, especially if the first round is not successful.)

[FM Arouet666]

33. Thanks for the post, also helpful

You are so right about the experience the female goes through with this compared with the male. I am done, for the most part and my wife is just getting started from what I can see thus far. My wife and I have a lot of processing to do after our last few weeks, this whole process is a bit more than I bargained for and a whole lot more than I think my wife bargained for.

[SidDithers]

17. My wife had pretty good endometriosis...

We were 2 years of trying with no results. Her OB/GYN did a laproscopic "cleaning" (for lack of a better word) of endometrial tissue, and then she was 6 months on Lupron. She was basically in menopause for 6 months, but that gave her body a chance to heal without endometrial tissue regrowing. Once she came off the Lupron, the Doc told us we had a good window of about 3 or 4 months, where our chances of getting pregnant would be good. I was looking forward to lots of "trying", but BAM, we got pregnant in the first month.

When we decided to go for #2, a couple of years later, there were no problems and we were pregnant again within a couple of months.

Our story is not nearly as involved as many couples. We've had friends who've had some really difficult experiences. But I throw our story out there to illustrate that sometimes the solutions are relatively simple.

Good luck!

Sid

[FM Arouet666]

34. Thanks a very interesting post

I suspect that we are older than you two were when you went through this process. My wife is 37 and our doc told us that if she does have endometriosis he would advice to go with GIFT, sorry can't recall what this acronym means, or IVF. His rational is that for an older patient he would be more aggressive, especially in the face of endometriosis. We shall see. Thanks.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. Best of luck to you both.

It is a very arduous process to go through, but hopefully you'll be rewarded in the end. I hope that you're seeing someone really good, it can make a huge difference which clinic/RE you go to.

I'm currently 20 weeks with twins from embryos I had frozen 10 years ago. I was fortunate in not having major issues, but it's still a hell of a lot to go through. :hi:

[Dorian Gray]

26. Oh Crunchy

congratulations! That's awesome!

I went to the doc yesterday and got all the results from laproscopic. I had a little damage around one of my fallopian tubes, but they cleaned it up. I'm all healthy now. My eggs, uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries! They're good. The doctor recommended trying naturally for a few months and let nature take its course. If I am not pregnant in 4-6 months, to come back and we can consider hormone treatment and IUI. So I feel happy to have a plan of action, and I am hoping that I can do this naturally. But we'll see.

It was really good news yesterday! :)

[Crunchy Frog]

27. Congrats on your good news. I hope everything works out for you.

I had to have a lap for a small amount of endo before doing the original IVF, but it apparently hasn't come back in the 11 years since.

I'm hoping that they got all of yours, and things will be clear sailing. :)

[FM Arouet666]

35. Congrats. Great story

Twins from embryos frozen 10 years ago. What a story to tell them when they can understand.

You are really 10 years older than your stated age. An interesting idea.

LOL Modern science is really fantastic great to see such a positive result. Best of luck you.:hi:

[Name removed]

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