Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 days

[rainy]

Go to the site below: A documentary is out now describing how healthy eating can cure diseases like diabetes.

http://www.rawfor30days.com/

Watch the trailer. This is very interesting.


Synopsis

Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days is an eye opening documentary film that chronicles six diabetics who switch to a diet consisting entirely of organic, vegan, uncooked food to reverse disease without prescription drugs. The culturally diverse participants are challenged to give up meat, dairy, sugar, processed and packaged food, and even cooked food for 30 days. The film follows their remarkable journey and captures the medical, physical, and emotional transformations brought on by this radical diet and lifestyle change. We witness moments of struggle, support, and hope as what is revealed, with startling clarity, is that a "simply raw" diet can reverse disease and change lives.

Additional wisdom is provided by Morgan Spurlock, Woody Harrelson, Anthony Robbins, Rev. Michael Beckwith, and Doctors Fred Bisci, Joel Fuhrman, Gary Null, and Gabriel Cousens.


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

[demosincebirth]

1. Naw, I'd rather just stick (no pun indended) to my one shot a day

[beam me up scottie]

3. Aw, c'mon!

Killjoy!

What could possibly happen?

:rofl:

[CPschem]

2. They need to distinguish

between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. There is no cure for Type 1 and no agreed-upon cause.

[nadinbrzezinski]

There is no cure for type II either... due to how the endocrinological system

works

It is just that you can lessen your dependence on meds by loosing weight, exercise, and eating a diet with a lower glycemic index

[rainy]

9. that is the cure. By dietary changes you end your dependence on insulin

and lower your sugar count. That of course is the cure for diabetes.

[Warpy]

12. Not quite

although a rapid weight loss, something pretty much assured by a vegan raw foods diet, will certainly help many people with type II diabetes for a while.

Type II diabetes is a progressive disease of insulin resistance, not insulin supply, and the improvement will be a temporary one. Frequent blood sugar checks are still essential to make sure the blood sugar isn't starting to creep up again.

Type I diabetes is a disease of insulin supply. This diet won't affect it one bit, except perhaps by supplying insufficient calories for an insulin regimen. This is dangerous, as is any drastic reduction in calories without consulting a physician.

Diabetes of both types is nothing that can be played with. There is no cure for either, as yet, although pancreatic islet cell transplants have shown some promise in type I diabetics.

This diet is not a cure in any sense of the word, although it might afford temporary treatment for type II diabetics.

[rainy]

17. none so blind as those who will not see.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Do you EVEN get the science behind insulin resistance

or inlet of Ingerhans degeneration?

The best hope right now are not only transplants, but stem cell research

Diet plays a role... and any diabetic knows it is a good idea NOT to eat a candy bar (unless your sugars drop so low that you need to for survival). but he or she also knows that blood sugar monitoring and Hemoglobin Sugar monitoring the aforementioned 1Ac I never saw done... is critical and that this is a progressive disease.

you are trying to peddle something that you truly DON'T understand

[Warpy]

26. Um, this is my field, honey

so you might want to rephrase that.

[varkam]

29. Nah.

You just need to watch some random documentary on teh internets to be exposed to teh Troof! Big Pharma obviously wouldn't want this to get out, because then they would loose out on all that insulin money!

:eyes:

You have my sympathies.

[LeftishBrit]

33. I think that was actually a reply to the OP.

[kdmorris]

41. I guess what he/she said is correct, though

Not about you, but someone is sure blind here and refuses to see anything.

[Luna_C_06]

71. Kinda off topic here, but

if everything goes according to plan (and our insurance doesn't screw us) in less than 2 years i will be the proud owner of a new pancreas . I'm already on a waiting list for one from the Mayo Clinic. There are some downsides of course, money being one ($300,000 ?!), and the fact that it's not a complete cure, but it beats type 1 diabetes!

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. By the way you DO KNOW that MOST type II diabetics DO NOT

inject insulin...

At least not in early and mid stages,

But I am sure you knew that

Here is a little factoid for you

My dad now uses insulin

He is 82... with a fifty year history of diabetes... he is in the lower range of his weight (healthy) and now takes insulin... translation, he is rail thin

So genius, why is that happening? Free clue... insulin resistance...

I hate snake oil salesmen... I really do

[kdmorris]

43. One more thing

ALL human beings are dependent on insulin. You need it to survive.

No matter what you do, you cannot end your "dependence" on insulin.

[Hannah Bell]

53. Type 2 = persistently elevated blood sugars.

if they stop being persistently elevated w/o the aid of drugs, you're "cured".

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. There is no cure for type II either... due to how the endocrinological system

works

It is just that you can lessen your dependence on meds by loosing weight, exercise, and eating a diet with a lower glycemic index

[rainy]

8. Yes, I believe this is strictly type 2 which is diet related.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I'm sorry but as a diabetic I call this hogwash

what is doing it is the change in diet, purely and the WEIGHT LOSS

You loose weight as a diabetic, you will need LESS medications,

You exercise, you need LESS MEDS

This vegan diet will have a lower glycemic index, all that fiber you know...

I know... I am doing it without going vegan... or not eating cooked foods... simple changes like brown rice instead of white rice are part of the answer... see lower index more fiber.

That said, diabetes cannot be reversed yet, due to the endocrinological processes that lead to ahem the disease process to begin with... its effects can be lessened. You may even see less meds but nowhere in there did I see a 1AC done... ONE... and in order to say that they reversed it they have to have 90 or bellow fasting sugars and a 1Ac bellow 6.

Hey, the disease has been around for a long time... it is genetic... and one of the meds goes at least all the way to the middle ages.Oh and since it is genetic it RUNS in families... as well as specific human populations who are more susceptible to getting it

You want to lessen your chances, loose weight, eat healthy and do exercise.

I hate people pedling "easy solutions" That said this also is similar to the Ornish diet, that for similar reasons, aka more fiber, less fat, reduces the problems with cardiac disease (CAD)

Yes diet plays a role, but you know what? You will not get somebody who KNOWS how these things work to buy into this as a solution and get off meds solution. Sorry charlie, won't happen

[rainy]

10. Diabetes is not genetic. Genetically your body might handle a bad diet by

developing diabetes in the first place but minus the bad diet and you have NO diabetes. Animals in the wild do not get diabetes but animals fed a shitty american diet get all kinds of degenerative diseases.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. You sure about that fact? Here you go

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/New-Genetic-Clue-to-Type-1-Diabetes-23286-1/



A faulty gene on Chromosome 16 boosts the risk of developing Type 1 diabetes, according to the latest probe into the causes of this disease .


http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/reprint/138/3/233.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16186405

I could go on....

Oh and one more thing... diabetes does exist in animal populations in the wild as well...

Just that they don't get to live long

Oh and the forms it takes changes from species to species and even branches of the animal tree... why diabetic birds (you read right) present and develop the disease in a different way than oh Humans or other primates

[rainy]

25. I'm not talking about type one diabetes. And diabetes does not exist in the wild.

[trotsky]

30. Diabetes doesn't exist in the wild because a diabetic wild animal dies.

Humans, livestock, and pets can live with diabetes because we can treat it.

Sheesh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Yes it does... I'll take the word of my bird's vet who also works

with wild bird populations any day of the week and twice on sunday.

He has treated wild birds who present classically as diabetics

Their choice, euthanasia or zoo.

Why? The bird's life expectations are anywhere from months to up to a year...

And yes it is genetic son...

Here you go, MORE links

search string included type two diabetes btw

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/Diabetes/tb/5518

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/69176.php

More Type 2 Diabetes Genes Discovered

Featured Article
Main Category: Diabetes
Also Included In: Genetics; Obesity / Weight Loss / Fitness
Article Date: 27 Apr 2007 - 5:00 PDT

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Find other articles on: "diabetes type II links of genetics"

Several teams of scientists this week report discovering more genes linked to Type 2 Diabetes and describe the achievement as bringing science closer to understanding the genetics of the origins and progress of this modern disease.


Type 2 diabetes

Type 2 diabetes has a stronger genetic basis than type 1, yet it also depends more on environmental factors. Sound confusing? What happens is that a family history of type 2 diabetes is one of the strongest risk factors for getting the disease but it only seems to matter in people living a Western lifestyle.

http://www.diabetes.org/genetics.jsp

http://organizedwisdom.com/Diabetes_Genetics

As you said above, open your eyes, and stop being blind

[rainy]

44. genetics is how a certain body, that may run in families, will respond to the

crap, pollutants etc... that we put into our bodies. Minus the pollutants and toxins and you minus the degenerative disease. Those birds that your vet talks about are corrupted by man, pollutants etc. somehow. Birds that eat what nature intended them to eat that has not been touched by man will not get degenerative diseases period.

[trotsky]

48. Interesting statement.

Birds that eat what nature intended them to eat that has not been touched by man will not get degenerative diseases period.

What is your proof of this? Have you done a biological survey of every bird that has ever lived (and died) to make this determination?

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Funny, the three wild seagulls would like to hear you on this

not to mention the finches

Did I mention the two Golden Eagles?

I am sure they'd like a second opinion on this

I showed you plenty of LINKS to genetics and HOW it is linked to Diabetes

What you think that GENETICS plays no role?

I am highly amused

By the way if I mentioned the many a pet parrot, then you MIGHT have a point. I wish I was as healthy as my tiel though... he has been eating a "western diet" and he is 22... you realize life expectancy is significantly less BOTH in the wild and in captivity? What is your explanation for THAT ONE?

[Silent3]

65. You're just starting with "knowing" that diabetes MUST BE...

...caused by the evils of the American diet, and "pollutants" and "toxins", and if shown anything that would indicate otherwise, you'll simple insist that somehow some of that nasty stuff must have sneaked by and gotten into an animal's system.

Clearly death and disease existed not only well before the advent of industrialization and fast food and agribusiness, but well before humankind first penned an animal or lit a fire, long before humans existed at all.

Are you absolutely sure no diabetes existed 100 years ago? 1000 years ago? 10,000 years ago? Were all of the diseases and causes of death, back before humankind screwed it all up, purer, cleaner, kinder maladies and "proper" deaths?

[kdmorris]

40. Bullshit

My father has Type 2 Diabetes. So do both of his sisters. And his mother had it. And his mother's two sisters and his 3 cousins. And his grandmother did, and most of her siblings, before "shitty American diets". Oh, yeah, and his grandmother had it. My mother's father had it and his brothers had it (again, before the "shitty American diets"). My mother's grandfather had it.

I didn't have a "shitty American diet" and I had babies who were all over 9 lbs. Then, my thyroid went to hell and my insulin resistance increased and my pancreas stopped producing as much insulin ("burned out"). This has been verified by blood tests. I do not produce as much insulin as I once did.

You don't even realize how insulting you are being. It totally sucks to be a Diabetic in America today, because so many people LIKE YOU want to show up and tell us how we are doing it all wrong and that our doctors are full of shit (some are, granted). I love the fact that I'm 5' 11" and weigh 165 lbs and when I do tell people that I have Diabetes, often the first thing they say is "But you don't look Diabetic". The image, of course, is that Diabetics are all fat and lazy and don't give a shit about their own health because we just don't listen to people like you who, of course, know what is best for us.

Give me a break. I exercise and I eat very healthy foods that are not that processed. But I also eat cooked foods and I eat protein in the form of meat and eggs. And my BMI is 23, my HbA1c was 5.6 at the beginning of the month and my postprandial blood sugar is almost always good. And I was only able to do it with the help of medications. I tried to stay off of them for a LONG time, but it's a progressive disease and I believe it's better to be on medication than to go blind and lose my feet.

You cannot "cure" Diabetes. You can only control it. Otherwise, I guess I'm cured, according to my blood tests and can just go off all my medications. Of course, my HbA1c will go back up to 7, but that will be my fault that I didn't follow some stupid diet that makes no fucking sense to anyone.

Boy, I sure do wish I wasn't such a stupid, lazy, shit-eating American. Then I could get CURED, too.

[Hannah Bell]

54. If your pancreas stopped producing much insulin, that suggests

your diabetes isn't typical "Type 2," because typical type 2 is characterized by over-production of insulin with insulin resistance. Were you diagnosed as a teenager & have you always been thin?

"Type 2" diabetes is a catchall term that used to be used for any case of persistently elevated blood sugar that wasn't "Type 1" & now seems to be sort of useless, as it lumps a bunch of different kinds of conditions together.

[kdmorris]

61. I have always been thin, but I wasn't diagnosed until I was 34

During my pregnancies, I failed all three of my 1-hour Glucose Tolerance Tests and had to take the 3 hour GTT, which I passed in 1987, 1989 and 1991. It is my understanding that the results of my 3-hr GTT with my second daughter would have been diagnostic of Gestational Diabetes if she had been born after 1997.

In 2001, I had 3 fasting blood tests over 126 (133, 144, 148), which is considered diagnostic, but "not that bad". So, I exercised and started eating low carb and it still didn't last long. In 2003, I had a GTT test with insulin levels and my blood sugar was elevated fasting, at 1/2 hour and at 1 and 2 hours. My 3 hour glucose value was just "slightly elevated". The insulin levels were very low each time they were taken. My oldest daughter had a GTT at the same time and she had low blood sugar accompanied by very high insulin at all drawings.

My doctor at the time said that my pancreas probably started overproducing between the 2 and 3 hour tests, which is what brought my blood sugar down (even though it was still slightly elevated). She said that I should exercise and eat right (which I had been doing for 2 years...).

When I got to the point that I was starving all the time (could only eat 15 carbs at every meal and had to watch my cholesterol, so I couldn't get my calories from fat, either), I found a different doctor, who put me on Metformin. Metformin worked OK to bring down my fasting blood sugar, but I would still have postprandial values above 200 (I cried the day I had 1/2 cup of oat bran and it was 256. I mean, if I was going to have blood sugar that high, I would have liked to enjoy something illegal).

Eventually, they gave me Prandin, which increases insulin like a sledgehammer killing a mosquito. I couldn't ever control my postprandial blood sugar. It was always too high or dangerously low. After Byetta had been out for a while, I asked my doctor to try it. I know it's still kind of experimental, but I needed to try something to replace the Prandin. The huge swings in insulin had caused me to gain a lot of weight, which exercising didn't help.

So, I got on Byetta (the lowest dose) and I love the stuff. My understanding from reading info on it is that it increases first phase insulin based on what you have eaten.

I've asked my doctor to test me for LADA, which some people call Type 1.5 Diabetes, but no luck so far. Doctors are pretty rigid on what they will and will not ask for from an insurance company. Since the combination of Metformin and Byetta is working for me, I just let it be.

[Hannah Bell]

63. thanks for the info. i'm not familiar with a special test for lada,

isn't it just blood insulin testing?

[kdmorris]

64. They can do a C-Peptide test

which basically shows how many insulin producing cells you have. Of course, this wouldn't necessarily be indicative of autoimmune Diabetes, unless the test was run more than once and the number was going down. They can test antibodies, too, such as testing the levels of GAD65, IA2, and ICA antibodies. Not sure which of these are also linked to other autoimmune diseases.

I've always kind of wondered because I have so many other autoimmune diseases (Sarcoidosis, Hashimoto's Thyroidosis, and Ulcerative Colitis) and I don't fit the "profile" of a typical Type 2 (low triglycerides, normal BMI, etc).

Here's some info I found on it:

http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_types/diabetes_type_15.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11473087?dopt=Abstract

I could get the blood tests without the doctor, but they are freaking expensive and insurance won't pay for them if the doctor won't order it.

[Hannah Bell]

66. ok, i see. not a "lada test" per se. thanks.

[cosmik debris]

6. How many people have claimed that they can change your life with diet alone.

I never believe any of them.

[rainy]

11. research alkaline and acid bodies and see how the right balance in your body

can cure many degenerative diseases. Just look at how other peoples' diets keep them from many of the diseases that many americans suffer from. The Japanese do not get bone diseases but they eat no diary. If they come to the states and eat a standard american diet, SAD, they begin to develop our bone problems.

[Warpy]

13. Acid-base balance is controlled by your kidneys

and nothing you eat does a thing to affect it. The only thing a high acid does is acidify your urine, helpful with some types of kidney stones and a couple of types of bladder infections, but that's it.

[rainy]

16. What was the last book you read on Acid and Alkaline balance?

Sounds like you don't know what you are talking about. Just like balancing sugars your body is always striving to balance ph. Calcium is the great alkalanizer and guess where your body goes for it if it is not ballanced? Right to your bones. That is why we have so much bone issues here in the US. Our diet is too acidic. Do your homework.

[beam me up scottie]

Warpy is a medical professional.

What are your credentials?

[varkam]

45. She's read a book. And saw a documentary on the internet.

Ancient Chinese Proverb:

If you believe everything that you read, don't read.

[beam me up scottie]

47. She must have received her diploma from Google U today.

Wow, just fucking wow.

[trotsky]

21. Anything that could change the pH of your body would kill you.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

You should not believe that it matters whether foods are acidic or alkaline, because no foods change the acidity of anything in your body except your urine. Your stomach is so acidic that no food can change its acidity. Citrus fruits, vinegar, and vitamins such as ascorbic acid or folic acid do not change the acidity of your stomach or your bloodstream. An entire bottle of calcium pills or antacids would not change the acidity of your stomach for more than a few minutes.

[Warpy]

27. I aced anatomy and physiology

and tested out of organic chemistry with a grade equivalent of A.

How well did you do, hon?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. So what are your medical credentials?

[salvorhardin]

15. "The Japanese do not get bone diseases but they eat no diary."

The Japanese do not get bone diseases but they eat no diary.

You are making two assertions here.

1. Native Japanese people do not get bone diseases
2. Native Japanese people eat no dairy.

Please refine your term "bone diseases" and provide evidence of both claims. Personally, I think you're full of shit on both counts.

[cosmik debris]

39. I have a miraculous self-adjusting system!

When ever I eat something that has a high pH, my stomach acid automatically and miraculously lowers the pH to the desired range.

Not only that, I have a secret system that produces more acid when I run out! AND IT'S FREE!.

And as for my blood, It also has a wonderful self-regulating system. It is called respiration. I recommend it highly. It effectively prevents alkalosis and acidosis and it does it without even buying $400 worth of supplements.

That's my secret to good health.

[Hannah Bell]

55. Japanese eat dairy & have bone disease.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118810379/abstract

[trotsky]

7. Nothing wrong with avoiding processed foods and eating healthy!

However the "raw diet" is not without risks. There's no magic bullet for health.

http://www.livescience.com/health/060704_bad_raw_food.html

But plant enzymes, which raw dieters wish to preserve, are largely mashed up with other proteins and rendered useless by acids in the stomach. Not cooking them doesn't save them from this fate. Anyway, the plant enzymes were for the plants. They helped with the plants' growth, and they are responsible for the wilting and decomposition of plants after they are harvested. They are not needed for human digestion. Human digestive enzymes are used for human digestion.

Raw foods certainly aren't safer than cooked food, as some claim. Most commercial chicken and a good deal of beef and pork, sadly, are loaded with bacteria and parasites. Cooking kills this, unless the meat is rancid. Major and surprising sources of food-borne illness, however, are raw sprouts, green onions and lettuce. These must be washed thoroughly before consumption. Raw (unpasteurized) milk is dangerous and mostly illegal to buy; trust your source. Raw (sprouted) kidney beans and rhubarb are poisonous.

Despite major flaws in the raw diet philosophy, one needs to question why a so-called natural diet leaves the dieter dependent on pills for B12 (impossible to get without animal products, such as meat or eggs) or zinc (very hard to get on a raw diet).

[rainy]

14. About Enzymes:

About enzymes

The study of enzymes has not been simple since enzymes operate on both chemical and biological levels, and science cannot measure or synthesize their biological or life energy.

Enzymes are responsible in maintaining health and in healing they are our metabolism - the body’s labour force.

Enzymes are substances that make life possible. They are needed for every chemical reaction that takes place in the human body. No mineral, vitamin or hormone can do any work without enzymes. They are the manual workers that build our bodies from proteins, carbohydrates, and fats.

Researches believe that our enzyme energy has a limit and we must help to maintain them as much as possible in order to have a longer life.

There are three classes of enzymes: metabolic enzymes, which run our bodies; digestive enzymes, which digest our food; and food enzymes from raw foods, which start food digestion. Our bodies- all organs and tissues-are run by metabolic enzymes.

These enzyme workers take proteins, fats, carbohydrates, starches and sugars, etc and structure them into healthy bodies, keeping everything working well.

Digestive enzymes have only three main jobs: digesting protein, carbohydrate, and fat. Proteases are enzymes that digest protein; amylases digest carbohydrate, and lipases digest fat.

“The Food Enzyme Concept” by Dr. Edward Howell is a different approach of looking at disease. It defends the idea that when ingested, the enzymes in raw food, or supplementary enzymes result in a significant degree of digestion, lowering the drain on the organisms own enzyme potential. Dr. Edward Howell defends that by eating raw food the work of the enzymes is less and the result is a healthy body. By eating raw food less stomach acid is secreted.

He remarks that most people spend their enzyme bank account and seldom make a deposit. It would be wiser to conserve enzymes and get enzymes reinforcements from the outside, since various experiments have taught us that enzymes are precious commodities.

He believes that by cutting down on the amount of food we can contribute to a higher enzyme potential, less food means fewer digestive enzymes are required. This keeps death away as well as arming the body against disease.

Enzymes convert the food we eat into chemical structures that can pass through the cell membranes of the cells lining the digestive tract into the bloodstream.

He defends that all uncooked foods contain an abundance of food enzymes, which correspond to the nutritional highlights of the food.

He says that nature has enclosed all raw foods with the correct and balanced amounts of food enzymes either for human consumption or eventual decomposition outside the human body.

The enzyme diet defended by Dr Edward Howell is defined by a regimen in which food is taken in its raw state, in its unprocessed form, in possession of its full quota of enzymes.

The digestive enzymes of civilized humans are infinitely stronger and more concentrated in enzyme activity than any other enzyme combination found in nature.

The organism values its enzymes highly and will make no more than are needed for the job. The body will make less concentrated digestive enzymes, if some of the food is digested by enzymes present in it.

In humans, the upper portion of the stomach is in fact a food-enzyme stomach. This part secretes no enzymes. In fact, the digestion of the protein, carbohydrate, and fat in raw food begins in the mouth the very moment the plant cell walls are ruptured, releasing the food enzymes during the act of mastification.

After swallowing, digestion continues in the food-enzyme section of the stomach for one-half to one hour, or until the rising tide of acidity reaches a point where it is inhibited. Then the stomach enzyme pepsin takes over.

If harmful bacteria are swallowed with the food they may attack it during this time of enforced illness. The salivary enzyme works on the carbohydrate, but the protein and fat must wait.

Dr. Howell believes that mankind’s change in the diet from mostly uncooked to cooked foods has probably resulted in changes in the structure of our gastrointestinal tract beyond the stomach specifically, the appendix and cecum play an active role in digestion in many herbivorous animals but have atrophied in humans.

He explains that when there are no food enzymes in the food eaten, to predigest it the pancreas must work to give out more internal enzymes to do the job. Metabolic enzymes do the work.

The pancreas must send out messages to all parts of the body looking for enzymes it can reprocess into digestive enzymes. When it finds them it has to change metabolic enzymes into digestive enzymes this means extra work and the enlargement of the pancreas.

This enlargement may not harm the pancreas, but when it confiscates metabolic enzymes it punishes the whole body by depriving it of the mechanics of every organ and cells needs to carry on their processes and functions.

He says that high calorie foods have far more of the three main digestive enzymes, but unfortunately these foods are eaten cooked and hence without enzymes.

In his opinion bananas, avocados, grapes, mangoes, olives from the tree, fresh raw dates, fresh raw figs, raw honey, raw butter, unpasteurized milk, germinated, inhibitor-fee raw cereal grains and seeds and germinated, inhibitor-fee raw tree nuts are endowed with both calories and enzymes.

Dr. Howell concludes that the best way to help the body keeping a high enzyme content is to follow a diet rich in raw foods based on fruits, nuts, seeds and vegetables. This can prevent many diseases and the body will have a long life of health and well-being.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Where did you copy and paste that from?

[salvorhardin]

32. Why, she plagiarized the Fruitarian website!

Here's a link to the poster's plagiarized piece on enzymes: http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Enzymes.htm

Seems like the poster needs a refresher course on citation: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x41504

Of course, this may make you wonder exactly what a Fruitarian is...

We eat raw fruit only…and we feel GREAT !!!!

This site will be sponsored by “ The International Fruitarian Foundation”, a non profit organization, to welcome, support, connect and defend the interests of all fruitarians around the world, to promote the style of life of living on fruit only. You will be able to learn about nutrition, fruit, seeds, fruit trees, and the environment for a better life…
http://www.fruitarian.com/default.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Woe, just WOW

Thanks, I guess these guys KNOW that other primates do enjoy animal protein from time to time anyway.


Oh never mind

[salvorhardin]

35. Wouldn't you know there's a pseudo-religious angle to it to?

Fruitarianism is the highest moral concept of nutrition…and is the biological support for high levels of physical, mental, moral and spiritual well-being….you really are what you eat!

Eating fruit alone, the fruitarian becomes more attractive and beautiful, with better hair, skin, nails, smell and taste in the body…and more pure physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, a special loving creature…he/she is itself a "fruit" of the "magic" power of the earth and the sun…the final result of millions of years of struggle for life to produce a unique specimen…full of intelligence, feelings and emotions for love…and conscience…a beautiful life form…a TRUE human being!
http://www.fruitarian.com/ao/WhatIsFruitarianism.htm

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Of course, not surprised

egads... I am less human since I am about to enjoy some rice, cheese and chiles? (Chiles rellenos, they take a lot of time to prepare but they are yummy)

[salvorhardin]

37. Oh, yummy!

I'm baching it tonight so it's frozen pizza for me, but that sounds delish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. We don't deep fry them, but rather bake them in the oven

with some brown rice.

It is a little healthier for you

[trotsky]

19. Do you have permission to cut & paste that much?

And does Dr. Howell have any evidence showing that plant enzymes survive in the stomach?

[beam me up scottie]

20. We gotta stop meeting like this!

:D

[trotsky]

22. Can't be helped.

We're a cadre trying to suppress discussion, you know.

[HamdenRice]

42. Fascinating conversation with a doctor today who says you're basically correct

The problem with this thread is that it has become mired in semantics. I was hanging out with a very, very well respected doctor and professor of medicine today -- one who went back to school at Columbia University in her 40s several years ago to study nutrition and biochemistry because of certain benefits of nutrition counseling she was observing in her clinical practice and who has included more "holistic" treatments in her practice -- and asked her about your proposition.

She said that in order to understand what happens when a person treats diabetes through nutrition and weight loss, you have to make a distinction between at least three concepts of medical outcome -- "curing," "healing," and "management." She said that "healing" is an underutilized concept in modern internal medicine. She agrees that improved nutrition cannot "cure" type II diabetes, but it can "heal" type II diabetes.

She made the following analogy. If you get pneumonia and get over the infection, you will be "cured." To her, to be "cured," is to be returned to your original state of health. But if you break your leg, and it is properly set, you will be "healed." You will never be quite the way you were (the bone will always show the effect of the fracture), but you will be healed and have most of your function back.

Nutrition can "heal" type II diabetes but it cannot "cure" type II diabetes. With weight loss, nutrition, and other lifestyle changes, you can achieve a state in which you no longer need to take insulin. Your body's resistance to insulin can be significantly lowered. The damage to your pancrease from the feedback mechanisms caused by your insulin resistance can be partially reversed. As a result, you will no longer need to take insulin. You will achieve all these positive outcomes, but you will probably not ever get back to your original state of insulin production or receptivity. But that's OK if it dramatically improves your health outlook, the likely etiology of your disease, and the cost/benefit analysis of your treatment options.

In a word, nutrition, weight loss and other lifestyle changes can "heal" type II diabetes, even though it would be an overstatement to say you can "cure" type II diabetes.

"Management" of type II diabetes would be to put you on insulin for the rest of your life, monitoring blood sugar, insulin and other health indicators, "managing" the levels of insulin at greater expense than "healing."

Again, she agreed with the thrust of your post, but said she would use the word "heal" rather than "cure." "Healing," if achievable, is preferable in her view, to disease "management" for a number of reasons including overall health and cost.

To reiterate, she feels that medicine is losing the recognition of the importance of "healing" to a pervasive emphasis on "management" through drug interventions.

[varkam]

46. There's a mighty big difference between the two, don't you think? eom

[HamdenRice]

49. Between what?

If you mean between "cured" and "healed" I would say no. If "healed" means that a patient can live his life without taking insulin then basically the OP is correct.

[varkam]

50. I think that the FTC might disagree with you.

A cure implies that the affliction is no longer present in any significant sense. Even if such changes in dietary intake were to bring about the positive consequences that you laid out, it would not be a cure in any meaningful sense of the word as the individual who undertakes such a regimen would still be a diabetic irregardless as to whether or not they have to continue to take insulin.

Healing, or improvement, however, is a different concept alltogether even though the two are related. Lots of products make claims that they can "heal" you. Certain cereals claim to be able to "heal" bad cholesterol and thereby reduce the chances of heart diseases. Were they to claim that their cereal can "cure" heart disease, I'd imagine that would get smacked down hard by Trade.

[HamdenRice]

59. What precisely are you disagreeing with?

The OP says that diabetes can be "reversed" not cured. Then some posters introduce the idea that it cannot be "cured." I argue, based on a conversation with a professor of medicine, that many cases of early adult onset type 2 diabetes can be "healed."

I can't really understand exactly what your point is, nor what the FTC has to do with any of it.

Can you explain precisely what are you disagreeing with?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. THis is more than semantics

he claims it can be cured, cannot

As to lowering your dependence on meds... can be done...

But the progression of the disease will have you back on them sooner or later

Look... I am one of those rare birds that has gone back to ONE med... diet \ exercise... but I KNOW that the progression of the disease means I will be back on that med in a few years, hopefully... but I don't expect to remain OFF it for ever...

That is reality.

That said, GOOD MANAGEMENT of Diabetes INCLUDES a heart healthy diet, with low fats, and low glycemic values, as well as... exercise

So she did not tell you anything that is that novel or new.

If a doctor does not insist on exercise and diet changes... look for another one

If a doctor promises you will be off meds... again look for another one.

By the way here is a piece of trivia for ya... you know how long Metmorfin has been used? Middle Ages... at least

[HamdenRice]

57. Between you and a well known professor of medicine

I'll believe the professor of medicine. She says you're wrong. Of course, some proportion of cases such as yours will be irreversible, but you cannot generalize from your own case or its etiology to all cases.

[cosmik debris]

58. I'm glad to see that your imaginary friends have great credentials

I'd hate to think you were hanging out with low class apparitions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Do some research on the etyology of the disease

the only hope to CURE diabetes at this time is stem cell research and transplants

It can be diminished... you can be proactive, but it cannot be reversed.

Oh and it is genetic

[HamdenRice]

69. Medical sources disagree with you

While there is certainly a genetic predisposition to type 2 diabetes, as with many chronic illnesses, it is also true that this genetic predisposition interacts with environmental and lifestyle choices. In other words, a genetically predisposed person who is overweight and inactive is much more likely to get the disease than a genetically predisposed person who is weight-appropriate and highly athletic.

Moreover, the scientific consensus is that if treated early with diet and exercise it can indeed be reversed.

[Hannah Bell]

60. metformin? no. the plant it's derived from? yes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Lasix, same story... been around since the middle ages

sorry, but I am talking of the CHEMICAL

[Hannah Bell]

70. metformin is the name of a modern drug.

the name of the chemical it's derived from is guanadine. But metformin has a different chemical structure.

the plant is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galega_officinalis

they didn't use metformin in the middle ages, they used the plant, or extracts of it.

not trying to be snarky, just accurate.

i think it's telling that the most useful/least side effects dm2 drug is the one most closely derived from old medicine.

[Celebration]

62. A Type 1 diabetes person I know

Went on a raw food diet, and got down to something like one or two insulin units per day. However, she was unwilling/unable to stay on such a restricted diet. It would be nice if we could bottle the benefits of a raw food diet for people like that.