Circumcision

[SHRED]

---

A co-worker's wife had a baby boy recently.
Two other co-workers were talking about it and I overheard one say, "John (Dad) saw the circumcision" and the co-worker discussing it went into detail and laughed.
Like it was a big joke.

It was all I could do to stay out of it. I did say, "Why did he have that unnecessary operation performed?" and "They don't put babies under general anesthesia"...but they ignored me like I was speaking a foreign language.

What a cruel "tradition" and if the decision is based on religious grounds then I would want NO part of a God that approved of this torture.

GRRR....



:grr:

[jhain]

1. in agreement

it is tortuous

[Richardo]

2. You did the right thing

You stayed out of it. :thumbsup:


Sort of. :eyes:



On edit: Maybe they ignored you because they couldn't believe that you'd insert yourself into a conversation that was none of your business.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. Ritual genital mutilation

In the United States, they don't even bother with the ritual part any more; it is done solely because it is a meaningless tradition despite being expressly forbidden by the religion that most Americans profess.

[sharp_stick]

4. Here we go

:popcorn:

[SHRED]

5. What's the controversy?

Why not let the male child decide for himself when he gets older?

[Orrex]

11. Sure

And let him decide whether to get vaccinated when he's older, too.

It's absolutely horrible that parents should presume to make medical decisions for their newborn children.

[TechBear_Seattle]

13. It is EXTREMELY rare for circumcision to be a matter of medical necessity

And even then, circumcision is never, EVER a matter of community health. You will have to do a lot better in constructing a straw man comparison with vaccinations.

Or do you have no problem with parents to demand that their daughters undergo the equivalent surgery of removal of the clitoral hood, which is almost universally decried as barbaric and unecessary?

[Orrex]

14. The two procedures are not equivalent

And you should ready Warpy's reply below. It nicely sums up the position and is basically unassailable.

But please feel free to continue to fulminate.

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. Yes, they are equivalent: clitoral hood = foreskin

It is exactly the same tissue, the only difference being female sexual development versus male sexual development. And please see my response to Warpy's reply.

[Orrex]

21. Whoops--my mistake

I thought you were referring to complete removal of the clitoris, which is often the example offered up in arguments against circumcision. But it's clear that that's not what you meant.

[bdf]

15. Depends how you define "medical necessity"

It is a necessity for the medical doctors because it a piece of purely elective surgery that they can do cheaply and charge a lot for. That's basically the only reason it is performed so frequently in the US. In countries where healthcare is state funded this operation is very rare and only performed when it is necessary actually necessary because the doctor receives no additional income for doing it.

[Richardo]

6. Fasten your seat belts and put your tray in the upright and locked position.

Might want to assume crash positions as well.

[zbdent]

7. I find it interesting that people who applaud a video put out that has a

"fetus" screaming are more than happy to, without anesthesia, mutilate a sensitive part of a newborn's body ...

[Kittycat]

8. Because they're ignorant of how the 'tradition' was started and so they carry it on

Also for idiotic reasons such as, to look like daddy, what will boys in the locker room say, etc. etc.

[xchrom]

9. ...

:woohoo: :popcorn: :woohoo:

[Kali]

10. hope you brought a lot of popcorn

:popcorn:

[Warpy]

12. It's a personal decision you have no say in, so butt out

If the dad in question is circumcised, it was a wise decision. Little boys want to look like Daddy.

They don't use general anesthesia, that's high risk. They do use local anesthesia, a great improvement over what they did when I was in school.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. In infants, they use a weak topical anesthetic, that's it

My mother worked for a large medical clinic in the California Central Valley as a medical assistant. Most of that time was working with one of the two urologists the clinic had. In that capacity, she assisted at quite a number of adult circumcisions.

Adults are given full, knock-out anesthetic before the procedure. Afterwards, they are given a prescription for very high doses of ibuprofen because the pain is excruciating for several days afterwards. The pain from an erection stretching the raw flesh is considerable, and getting it wet with urine (which tends to be midly acidic) apparently creates a whole new category of pain. When it scabs over, any kind of movement makes the pain unbearable. It is typically two to three weeks before it heals over to the point where a man is able to function, in any sense of that word. This I have from my mother, who was occasionally on hand when the doctor passed the info on to patients, and she was sometimes requested to pass it on to patients herself. (You probably don't want to hear about my own experiences with a related procedure, but trust me: my mom is not exagerating.)

In contrast, infants are given little more than Bactine and get no after care at all. After assisting at her first adult circumcision, my mother has voiced STRONG opposition to my brothers' plans to have their sons circumcised, despite her having had all of her own sons circumcised because she and my father wanted us to "look like daddy."

[Warpy]

18. It's a completely different operation in adults and

it's extremely dishonest to compare it with the operation in infants.

Shame.

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. Why should I believe you over the opinion of a medical professional?

Particularly, a medical assistant with experience assisting at circumcisions?

[Warpy]

20. How about a surgical RN?

Here's something to read up on: the cephalocaudal development of the myelin sheath of both afferent and efferent nerves and what that means for pain transmission.

You might also check out the recovery rates for both infants and adults.

Then again, you might just want to hold onto your position through ignorance.

[SHRED]

23. Ignorance?

---

Why anyone would defend this barbarism is mind boggling.

http://www.noharmm.org/instruments.htm

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/index20.html

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/video.html

http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/81112.html

http://menstuff.org/archives/circumcision.html


http://www.nocirc.org/

[NickB79]

28. Maybe because many millions of men have been circumsized for millenia with no ill effects?

[LeftyMom]

22. It's less dramatic in adults.

In infants, the glans and foreskin are fused, so they have to be torn apart before the foreskin can be cut or crushed away*, leading to more pain and also a larger raw area at risk of infection.

*depending on the method of circumcision

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. A few problems.

Ibuprofen is not used to treat excruciating pain. Vicodin, Percocet, Oxycodone are a few drugs of the many drugs that are. Most of the medical literature says that the procedure is usually performed under local anesthetic. Newborns don't get many erections so it seems like that wouldn't be a problem as opposed to any male past puberty.

David

[WildClarySage]

25. newborns don't get many erections? heh

wow, someone forgot to tell my sons that. My husband was soooooooo proud! rofl

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. Well you can't really blame him can you.

[chicagomd]

30. I know I am late to this party, but

Your mother's experience with one or two physicians hardly represents the overall practice of circumcision as it is today.

The AAP policy statement on circumcision (reaffirmed in Sept. 2005)
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/3/686

Also, topically anesthetic is not generally considering adequate pain control if used in isolation. http://www.aspmn.org/pdfs/Pediatric%20Circumcision.pdf
"EMLA , when applied for 60-90 minutes prior to neonatal circumcision, shortens cry time and results
in smaller heart rate increases when compared to placebo. The anesthetic is insufficient in alleviating
pain during phases of the procedure that are associated with extensive tissue trauma such as during
lysis of adhesions and tightening of the clamp."

[Crunchy Frog]

31. How do AAP recommendations compare with actual practice?

[sakabatou]

26. *drinks*

I was circumcised as a kid, as well as every guy in my family since we're Jewish.

[FlaGranny]

29. Circumcision and sensitivity question.

I would be interested in hearing from any men here who were circumcised as a teen or adult how much difference circumcision made in sensitivity and sexual pleasure. My husband is very upset that he was circumcised as a baby. My brother was circumcised when he was in his early 20s from medical necessity, but I don't really feel comfortable asking him. I have 3 grandsons and one of them had to be circumcised at the age of 7 - also due to medical necessity.

And to whoever said that baby boys do not have many erections - yes indeed they do. Every diaper change and every urination brings on a firm erection.