RI: The new strategy of the antivaccination movement: Autism is a "misdiagnosis"...

[varkam]

Respectful Insolence: The new strategy of the antivaccination movement: Autism is a "misdiagnosis" for mitochondrial disease
Link

I should have seen this one coming a mile away in light of the concession of vaccine injury in the case of one child that led to the incredibly shrinking causation claim when it comes to vaccines and autism. Having had it conclusively demonstrated through several large studies in multiple countries that mercury in vaccines does not cause autism (nor do vaccines themselves), the mercury militia are rapidly changing course. No longer is autism a "misdiagnosis for mercury poisoning."

Now it's a "misdiagnosis for mitochondrial diseases."

Or it soon will be. Just wait. The new propaganda from the mercury militia will be that autism is a result of mitochondrial diseases plus vaccines, just as they claimed before that it was due to the mercury in vaccines plus a "sensitivity" to mercury. (Of course, they only started to claim the sensitivity to mercury after studies failed to find any link between thimerosal and vaccines in large general populations.) Don't believe this will happen? Think again:

Is Miss Hannah Poling patient #1 in the new paradigm for "The disorder formerly known as autism?" Perhaps we'lll come up with a really funky sign like Prince did? Was Hannah misdiagnosed with autism, when she actually had a mitochondrial disorder that was triggered by her childhood vaccines? If so, there may be tens of thousands of children who have been misdiagnosed. That opens up rather a large can of wigglers, doesn't it?

snip...

Figured this would be very appropriate, given some of the posts I'm seeing. :hi:

[katsy]

1. I don't know about a link between autism and thimerosal.

But it would seem that if vaccines could be delivered without thimerosal in Canada and Europe, then why not here?

The manufacturers do indeed produce thimerosal free vaccines. IMO, why inject mercury into a child's body if you don't need to?

My children have had all their vaccines so I'm hardly on any anti-vaccine crusade, but IMO that article is quite nasty. Raving even.

Immunization is a public health matter and benefits society as a whole. But thimerosal is not a necessary component to immunization from what I've read.

[varkam]

2. Thimerosal hasn't been in vaccines since the early 90's I believe.

:hi:

[Warpy]

4. It hasn't

since a different preservative, one not containing the trace amount of mercury, has been substituted.

In addition, the vaccine most often blamed, the MMR, never contained thimerosal in the US.

[katsy]

9. See!

I told you we could do without thimerosal!

:blush: :rofl:

And they even have one or two flu vaccines without preservatives - right?

When all is said and done about public health, it all comes down to whether one trusts their government to protect the public welfare.

Does it come as any surprise that people do not trust the government to do right by us?

[varkam]

10. Everything isn't about partisanship.

Though Bush et al. have done a good deal to try to politicize the health system via gutting the FDA and CDC, but ideally health shouldn't be about politics - it should be about science.

[katsy]

11. It should be about science.

Science and oversight of those companies that manufacture vaccines... or even toothpaste and toys for that matter.

Without oversight, who can blame people for being skeptical about any public health matter.

That's not a partisan issue and I did not mean to imply that at all. It's a matter of trust and betrayal.

[motocicleta]

15. From the FDA:

"Since 2001, all vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market and routinely recommended for children ≤ 6 years of age have contained no thimerosal or only trace amounts (≤ 1 microgram of mercury per dose remaining from the manufacturing process), with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine."

I believe you don't know what you're talking about. Is this a trend? I believe it may be.

;)

[varkam]

16. You're right. I was mistaken on the time.

I'll ignore your comment, though.

;)

[trotsky]

18. You were probably thinking of Denmark and Japan.

Those countries were among the first to ban thimerosal, in the early 90s, yet autism rates kept climbing.

[bvve]

20. Denmark rates of Autism

have been misrepresented in the Denmark Study. If one actually reads the study, they will find that the fatal flaw of the study was that the inclusion criteria for Autism prior to removal of thimerisol from vaccine were based on in-patient hospital diagnoses. After removal of mercury, the inclusion criteria CHANGED to include any setting where the person was diagnosed ( ie doctors office, school, etc. ). The study should be read by anyone who has used it to support the argument that Autism rates in Denmark went up after removal of mercury from vaccines. Whether one thinks the mercury is contributing to increases in Autism or not, the flaws of Denmark Study are so obvious that a critical review of the study will leave one with more questions and no conclusions.

[trotsky]

21. I know, anti-vaxers hate the Denmark study. They try and attack it relentlessly.

They've tried to point out numerous flaws over the years, but none have panned out. Changing the inclusion criteria is a new one - haven't heard that one before. Did you just make it up? Do you have any evidence for your assertion? And if they have been using a broader inclusion, why has autism KEPT going up since? Why didn't it go away?

[bvve]

22. Read the study

If you have not "heard that before", read the study, you would see the flaw (unless there truly is none so blind that will not see). Have you even read the Denmark study? I did not "just make that up". Nope. I read the study when it came out years ago. So my evidence is the study itself. So after you read the study, and you see the inclusion criteria changed, can you see that a larger net catches more fish?

[trotsky]

24. Since you've read the study,

it certainly couldn't be that much work to simply point to the part of it that confirms what you say. I don't recall reading anything like that in it, and I've read it before.

(P.S. Good work on the "none so blind" trite expression. If you aspire to be a good woo, you gotta throw that one around a lot.)

[cosmik debris]

25. But he sill hasn't gotten to

"More things in heaven and Earth..." He is not officially 100% trite until he uses that one.

[bvve]

28. not 100% trite

unless I eat yellow snow. I love you Cosmik. Are you danish?

[bvve]

27. trite bright

Quite right. I don't believe I've ever used that phrase, but thanks for the suggestion, it seemed so appropriate. Please go back and re-read the study and review the critique I am noting below. Good luck and good reading.
Danish Thimerosal-Autism Study in Pediatrics : Misleading and ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
1950s. 3) There are still no published, usable data about Danish autism rates in persons born. between 1960-90. 2. The mercury exposure levels described in ...
www.safeminds.org/research/docs/Blaxill-DenmarkAutismThimerosalPediatrics.pdf -

[trotsky]

29. Sorry, not going to do your work for you.

You made the claim, back it up. Do they teach you this method in anti-vax school? Seems to be a very common tactic, pushing your work on to others.

Oh and then after you've done that, you'll have to come up with a different excuse to dismiss even more corroborating data out of California:

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/65/1/19

Results The estimated prevalence of autism for children at each year of age from 3 to 12 years increased throughout the study period. The estimated prevalence of DDS clients aged 3 to 5 years with autism increased for each quarter from January 1995 through March 2007. Since 2004, the absolute increase and the rate of increase in DDS clients aged 3 to 5 years with autism were higher than those in DDS clients of the same ages with any eligible condition including autism.

Conclusions The DDS data do not show any recent decrease in autism in California despite the exclusion of more than trace levels of thimerosal from nearly all childhood vaccines. The DDS data do not support the hypothesis that exposure to thimerosal during childhood is a primary cause of autism.

Good luck and good reading!

[bvve]

Changing the study focus

is a distraction from the problems of the Denmark study, but still, the problems remain. Your point on the Ca. numbers not dropping is something that is interesting and possibly relevant. I have been watching the Ca. numbers over past few years. What would help in the analysis would be a definative point in time when no mercury was remaining in the vaccine inventories and therefore a "no exposure by vaccine" point established. I am not "pushing" my work onto you, but I refuse to read to you aloud, so I must ask you to do the reading on your own.

[trotsky]

37. Don't need you to read it to me.

Just point to the part that supports your claim. That's all. Should be very simple for you. But the fact that you refuse tells me all I need to know.

[cosmik debris]

32. That's just lazy

You made a claim that you can't support. You offer an "op-ed" piece to support your own opinion rather that offering the facts that would support your claim.

Please show us the part of the study that you believe to be flawed.

[bvve]

36. The "op-ed" piece

was written in response to the research paper. The "piece" supports my opinion, yes, but it also supports my claim. I cannot improve upon the arguments presented in the "piece", but it does not mean the arguments are not valid.

[cosmik debris]

38. If you can't cite the flaws in the study

Then how can we believe you? Do your homework and get back to me when you have the direct evidence.

[bvve]

19. Thimerosal HAS been in vaccines through 2002

with expiration dates that were well past the production dates of 2002. In july of 1999, the FDA simply asked that the mercury presented in vaccines be reduced, but no recall ever happened. The House Government Reform committee held a number of hearings on the issue, and, according to the testimony given by the FDA's witness in November of 2002, there were still vaccines containing mercury in production waiting to be shipped to health care providers. Adding to the complexity of mercury exposure was the mercury containing flu vaccines suggested use for pregnant woman, and use in the pediatric population. In 1991, a vaccine researcher for Merck sent a cautionary note to Merck executives regarding his concerns over the load of mercury presented by vaccines in children. Although other countries banned the use of mercury, the US continued to allow mercury in vaccines and are still allowed to have mercury in vaccines if they choose today.

[mzmolly]

35. Yep, it's still in vaccines today.

Sadly. Welcome bvve. :hi:

[mzmolly]

34. Yes it has. It's still in the flu jab and in other vax's - trace amounts, as well as in some older

lots - Merck was caught doing the "old lot" thing.

[Warpy]

3. That mitochondrial defect is a very serious one

since the mitochondria are the energy producers for the body's cells. The kids would get sick as hell whether or not they ever got a vaccine.

They're crowing that 7% of autistic kids have this defect, much higher than in the normal population. What they're missing is that 93% of autistic kids don't have it.

The other thing they're missing is that the mitochondrial defect is congenital, present at birth. So is autism, but don't expect the antivaxers to admit that, ever.

[varkam]

5. I'm sure they won't.

I actually just posted about what the new strategy is probably going to be. Looks like we're in for some more fun :hi:

[Celebration]

6. As it turns out

The mother has the exact same mitochondrial disorder as her daughter, but with no symptoms. So, something triggered the pre-existing condition that caused it to be symptomatic in the daughter.

Of course the mitochondrial disorder was present at birth. Who has said it was not?

[Warpy]

7. Mum also had vaccinations.

[Celebration]

8. But the same vaccinations?

On the same schedule? Mum is in favor of vaccinations. She wants safer ones.

[Celebration]

13. just going to add

I did read a source saying that the mother had the same thing, and I don't feel like looking for it. But I think it was only found after they did gene studies on the girl, and then the same studies on the mom. The gene that they were suspicious about in the girl must have also showed up in the mom. But prior to the vaccination, they had no reason to believe that anything was wrong with their child (or the mom) at all. Mom is healthy.

[trotsky]

17. LOL... nice.

I did read a source saying that the mother had the same thing, and I don't feel like looking for it.

I read a source saying that the mother said she dropped her kid on her head, but I don't feel like looking for it either. :eyes:

[Celebration]

30. Here ya go

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23519029

The Polings were exploring two theories about what happened to Hannah. One is that she was born with the mitochondria disorder and the vaccines caused a stress to the body that worsened the condition. The other was that the ingredient thimerosal caused the mitochondrial dysfunction, Jon Poling said.

But here

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99826.php

Jon Poling said Hannah, like her mother, has a rare inherited mitochondrial disorder. Mitochondria are the "power batteries" inside every cell of the body and supply the cell with energy.

Poling said the fact that his wife did not have autism showed Hannah did not inherit it from her mother, and contended it was the mercury in the vaccine preservative thimerosal that triggered the condition in their daughter.

[trotsky]

31. In the meantime LeftishBrit cleared up your confusion below.

The quote from Poling is irrelevant. But thank you for digging up your source!

Edit: spelling

[mzmolly]

40. Either way, vaccines led to this childs current situation.

Also, these disorders are not always inherited (as some wish to promote) see my post below.

Thanks for the info again ITJ

[LeftishBrit]

26. Mitochondrial diseases are not inherited in the same 'all or none' fashion as many other disorders

Typically, the mother has only a small amount of abnormal mitochondrial DNA herself, and shows few or no symptoms. Some of her eggs wll contain only a small proportion of abnormal mitochondrial DNA; but some may contain far more. This is why family members can vary widely in the expression of a mitochondrial disorder, with some having no symptoms, some being mildly affected, and some severely affected. This depends mainly on the actual amount of abnormal mitochondrial DNA passed on in different eggs - not usually on postnatal environmental factors.

Moreover, some of the more severe mitochondrial disorders are (sadly) progressive, involving a deterioration in the condition over time, regardless of external factors such as vaccination.

[mzmolly]

39. This doesn't absolve vaccination as a contributing factor in some cases of autism.

Also, the issue is not always inherited: edited to add link - http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/1600/1678.asp?index=6957

For many patients, mitochondrial disease is an inherited condition that runs in families (genetic). An uncertain percentage of patients acquire symptoms due to other factors, including mitochondrial toxins.

[mzmolly]

12. "Autism is a misdiagnosis" ? Can you show me proof of this assertion anywhere?

Autism is a diagnosis period. As I've said why does it matter what you call the brain damage/regression after vaccination? There is no TEST for autism.

Orac is apparently unfamiliar newer science on mercury in vaccines, like the monkey study I noted to you the other day Varkam?

I'm not sure why anyone looks up to this blow hard as an authority on this matter? He doesn't support any of his nonsense, and he mischaracterizes the assertions of those he takes issue with. Then again, that's par for the "pro-pharma cult" course.

[varkam]

14. Well then why don't you take your issues up with Orac.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

33. I've attempted to respond, but am not registered.

And, he's not worth it. ;)

[cosmik debris]

23. The antivax football team always wins

because they are defending mobile goal posts.