Autism cases up even with vaccine change

[Phx_Dem]

Autism cases in California continued to climb even after a mercury-based vaccine preservative that some people blame for the neurological disorder was removed from routine childhood shots, a new study found.

Researchers from the state Department of Public Health found the autism rate in children rose continuously during the 12-year study period from 1995 to 2007. The preservative thimerosal hasn't been used in childhood vaccines since 2001, but is used in some flu shots.

Doctors say the latest study adds to existing evidence refuting a link between thimerosal exposure and autism risk and should reassure parents that the disorder is not caused by vaccinations. If there was a risk, they said, autism rates should have dropped between 2004 and 2007.

The findings show "no evidence of mercury poisoning in autism" since there was no decline in autism rates even after the elimination of thimerosal, said Dr. Eric Fombonne, an autism researcher at Montreal Children's Hospital who had no role in the research.

More at:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Autism_cases_up_even_with_vaccine_c_01072008.html

[AspenRose]

1. If it's not the vaccines, then what could be causing the rise....

Any educated guesses out there?

Plastics? Water contamination? Chemtrails? What?

[Phx_Dem]

2. genetic and environmental factors

of undetermined origin.

[Orrex]

4. Not to mention a broadening of the diagnostic criteria

An expanded range of conditions that qualify as "Austism"

equals

An expansion of the number of cases reported as "Autism"


There may be an actual increase in incidence, but the evidence for this is as yet very limited and poorly correlated.

[philb]

25. not a big factor in the huge increase seen

the definitions are known to those involved and the relative numbers of the various types of autism spectrum conditions is also
known. The huge increase from less than 1 in 10,000 to over 1 in 200 over the last 2 decades is not explained by definitions. Both the Dept. of Education Special Education experts and doctors can recognize autism when they see it; and not large number of such cases confused by definitions.

There was also a huge increase in the lesser toxic related neurological conditions such as ADHD during the same period.
As much as 20% in some areas/groups affected.


And it is not true that thimerosal was taken out of all vaccines other than flu in 2001; in addition to the fact that there was a phase out period and some vaccines given after that had high levels of mercury, most vaccines continue to have low levels of thimerosal, and many who are immune reactive to thimerosal are known to be signif. affected by very low exposures- such as in prick tests, etc.

[philb]

46. The prevalence of neurological disorders amongst children is growing- environmental causes supported

1. The prevalence of neurological disorders amongst children is growing, which means the environment must be playing a role (because genetic conditions can only grow at the rate of population growth).


We cite four published studies that support this position:


Report to the Legislature on the Principle Findings from The Epidemiology of Autism in California: A Comprehensive Pilot Study
MIND Institute, UC Davis, Oct 2002.
Robert Byrd


Using data from California, the state perceived to maintain the best data on autism, this report demonstrates clearly that the rise in autism is not due to improved diagnosis and expanded diagnostic criteria, but is rather a REAL rise for which some external factor must be playing a role. Excerpt:



"There is no evidence that a loosening in the diagnostic criteria has contributed to increased number of autism clients...we conclude that some, if not all, of the observed increase represents a true increase in cases of autism in California...a purely genetic basis for autism does not fully explain the increasing autism prevalence. Other theories that attempt to better explain the observed increase in autism cases include environmental exposures to substances such as mercury; viral exposures; autoimmune disorders; and childhood vaccinations."


National Autism Prevalence Trends From United States Special Education Data.
Pediatrics, March 2005.
Craig J. Newschaffer, PhD .


This study shows that the rise in the incidence of autism is real and that the greatest increase took place between 1987 and 1992, which matches the timing of the near-tripling of vaccines given to our children and the tripling of mercury within those vaccines.


The Changing Prevalence of Autism In California
Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, April 2003
Mark Blaxill, MBA


This study helps to refute the supposition made by some researchers that autism's epidemic may only be due to "diagnostic substitution". Excerpt:



"They have suggested that 'diagnostic substitution' accounts for an apparent increase in the incidence of autism in California that is not real. This hypothesized substitution is not supported by proper and detailed analyses of the California data."


What's Going On? The Question of Time Trends in Autism.
Public Health Reports, Nov-Dec 2004.
Mark F. Blaxill, MBA.


This detailed analysis of reported rates of autism in the United States and United Kingdom serves to further refute the assertion made by some that the "epidemic" of autism is nothing more than better diagnosis.

[philb]

22. Both the genetic and environmental factors involved have been well documented in med. lit

and from clinical experience

documented environmental factors include vaccines/mercury/lead/arsenic/antimony/tin, etc.
www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
etc.

Documented genetic factors include blood allele APOE type, metallothionein deficiency, and toxic induced deficiencies in zinc, magnesium, etc. needed for basic enzymatic processes
www.flcv.com/suscept.html
www.flcv.com/kidshg.html

If some of the people posting here are going to discuss such issues as if they know something about it, they need to read a little of the research and follow more of the clinical experience in treating these conditions. Implying that one knows answers without having sufficient documentation or clinical experience can cause others without the background or time to sort it out problems.
The only part of your post I somewhat disagree with is "of undetermined origin". There has been a lot of documentation in the medical literature and clinical experience about some of the main factors.

[hisownpetard]

5. Milk (due to some kind of steroids administered to cattle to make them bigger?)

This is not an 'educated' guess, just a stab in the dark.

[Orrex]

11. Unfortunately, that statement describes 99.9% of anti-vaccination propaganda

There's very little science behind the fear-mongering.

I'm not accusing you of that, since you disclaim outright that you're only throwing an idea out there. However, when celebrities and outspoken advocates start howling about this or that factor which, in their view, is obviously somehow to blame for autism, it's time to call them on it.

The anti-vac crowd takes far too many stabs in the dark and far too few measured, scientifically justified arguments.

[philb]

21. You have your facts wrong and doc. reality is opposite from what you say

I'm not against all vaccinations and likewise for most that you are talking about- without real care or factual basis on your part.
The information that I post is always backed up by credible scientific documentation and lots of clinical experience and often supported by Gov't agency or Congressional findings. My organization has real experience dealing with many thousands of patients and the clinics/MDs that treat them. No one has offered credible evidence to the contrary- just wild statements without evidence or credible support. The clinics treating the thousands of patients do lots of testing before and after treatment, so the protocols are supported by tests and the results speak for themselves; the toxic exposure levels decline and the patients get better.

Its a matter of record that many millions have been exposed to levels of highly toxic neurotoxins like mercury, at levels far above Gov't health guidelines and levels documented to commonly cause neurological damage. www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
And Gov't agencies have kept records that large numbers of kids have been killed or damaged by vaccination (CDC) as I've posted before. Do you disagree with this, I've provided the Gov't agency web site where its reported.

The doctors treating such vaccine and toxic metal related conditions known to have affected millions: autism, ADHD, eczema, learning disabilities, other developmental conditions have by test documented the high metals exposures and the fact the kids improve from all of these conditions after detoxification and dealing with the metabolic imbalances caused by the exposures.

See the documentation on the other vaccine related threads.

[TZ]

6. Reclassification

Alot of it are disorders that are now considered autism that weren't previiously.

[cosmik debris]

7. That will never do.

I want someone to blame. I want something to fear. I want something to hate. Reclassification won't work for me.

I'm going with chemtrails. Even though I understand the chemistry of combustion, I'm willing to ignore my knowledge and accept a bat-shit-crazy idea just so that I can hate, fear, and blame.

And don't try to stop me with reason!

:raspberry:

[TZ]

10. lol

Anti-vaxx people are a lot like fundies aren't they?

[NMMNG]

14. It's demons I tell ya

Anti-vaxx people are a lot like fundies aren't they?


They are.

[philb]

52. Serious studies by serious researchers, unlike problematic study here find vax. main cause of autism

The study here was by a consultant for a vaccine manufacturer and has been shown to not credibly show what is claimed here.

In fact actual studies that are more careful have clearly and consistently documented that those who received vaccines with thimerosal in the last decade had much higher deaths and neurological injury including autism, ADHD, etc. than those who received no vaccines with thimerosal or lower levels of thimerosal in vaccines.

See the studies of religious organizations with no vax and no autism on other thread and the studies on this at
www.flcv.com/vaxharm.html based on the federal Government agency VAERS data base for vaccine injury reports

[cosmik debris]

58. Fear, blame and hate. That's all you've got. n/t

[Quantess]

9. More precisely, in the "spectrum of autism".

The definition of autism has not changed, but there is a growing awareness of Pervasive Developmental Disorders, not otherwise specified.

[philb]

34. Lots of studies deal with the classification issue, and show its not a signif. factor

You apparently haven't looked at the actual studies, many of which from past and recent times break out the autism spectrum category types and give comparisons for consistent breakouts. The data clearly show a huge increase in primary autism, not related to other autism spectrum categories or in definition changes.

A summary of some of the studies and data set information can be found here:
http://www.safeminds.org/government/safeminds-analysis-schechter-grether-01-08v2.pdf

[philb]

47. Metals toxicity levels in children with neurological disorders much higher than for normal children

When environmental toxicity in children with neurological disorders is measured, it is meaningfully higher than neurotypical (normal) children.



Porphyrinuria in Childhood Autistic Disorder: Implications for Environmental Toxicity
Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, 2006.
Robert Nataf, Corinne Skorupka, Lorene Amet

This new study from France utilizes a new and sophisticated measurement for environmental toxicity by assessing porphyrin levels in autistic children. It provides clear and unequivocal evidence that children with autism spectrum disorders are more toxic than their neurotypical peers. Excerpt:

"Coproporphyrin levels were elevated in children with autistic disorder relative to control groups...the elevation was significant. These data implicate environmental toxicity in childhood autistic disorder."


A Case Control Study of Mercury Burden in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
Journal of American Physicians and Surgeon, 2003.
James Adams, PhD .

This recent study shows, through active chelation with DMSA, that autistic children excrete significantly higher levels of mercury than their neurotypical peers, leading to the conclusion that autistic children bear a much higher load of mercury in their bodies and that chelation may be an effective treatment for removing the mercury. Excerpt:

"The data from this study, along with emerging epidemiological data showing a link between increasing mercury doses from childhood vaccines and childhood neurodevelopmental disorders, increases the likelihood that mercury is one of the main factors leading to the large increase in the rate of autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders. It is hoped that removing thimerosal from all childhood vaccines will contribute to a decline in the numbers of new cases of autistic spectrum disorders."


A Case Series of Children with Apparent Mercury Toxic Encephalopathies Manifesting with Clinical Symptoms of Regressive Autistic Disorder
Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, 2007
David A. Geier, Mark R. Geier

This study reviewed the case histories and medical profiles of nine autistic children and concluded that eight of the nine children were mercury toxic and this toxicity manifested itself in a manner consistent with Autism Spectrum Disorders. Excerpt:

"...these previously normally developing children suffered mercury toxic encephalopathies that manifested with clinical symptoms consistent with regressive ASDs. Evidence for mercury intoxication should be considered in the differential diagnosis as contributing to some regressive ASDs."

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and blood mercury level: a case-control study in chinese children
Neuropediatrics, August 2006
P.R. Kong .


This study demonstrates that blood mercury levels are higher for children with ADHD. Excerpt:

"There was significant difference in blood mercury levels between cases and controls, which persists after adjustment for age, gender and parental occupational status. The geometric mean blood mercury level was also significantly higher in children with inattentive and combined subtypes of ADHD. CONCLUSION: High blood mercury level was associated with ADHD. Whether the relationship is causal requires further studies."


Reduced Levels of Mercury in First Baby Haircuts of Autistic Children
International Journal of Toxicology
Dr. Amy S. Holmes, Mark F. Blaxill, Boyd E. Haley, Ph.D.
March 14, 2003


This recent study demonstrates that the levels of mercury in the birth hair of autistic children were significantly lower than their control peers. While this may at first appear contradictory, it highlights one of the critical insights to understanding mercury poisoning and autistic children: many autistic children are non-excretors of mercury. This means their capacity to excrete mercury is significantly lower than their neurotypical peers and contributes to their condition.

[Liberal Veteran]

17. It's second hand mercury sweated out by people who used thimerasol based vaccines!

Yeah....that's the ticket. The contaminated people are breathing mercury breath at the poor defenseless babies and causing them to get autism!

And engrams!!!! Never underestimate the role engrams play in autism.

/sarcasm

[philb]

40. Comments about this study by parents of autistic kid on autism forum

Analysis of parents of autistic children on Autism-Mercury Yahoo Group

Vaccines are made with thimerosol, then the thimerosol is
filtered out, but becasue it binds with proteins in the vaccines not
all of it can be removed.

Once the bulk of the thimerosol has been removed, a new preservative
is needed so that vaccines can be given in multiple doses in order to
make more money for Big Pharma. (They replaced thimerosal in some vaccines
with 2-phenoxyethanol, a combination of phenol and ethylene oxide. It is an irritant,
causes dermatitis, burns, blisters, neurological effects, cancer in
female lab mice. In 1978, the EPA banned its use in pesticides due to
mutagenicity and testicular effects in lab animals.)

aluminum and formaldehyde are also added. These act synergistically with the thimerosol
remaining in the vaccines to produce pretty much the same effects as the old vaccines.
Steve
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/215866
additional snips
they also had PhD experts, researchers participating in the discussion.

note that for those immune reactive to thimerosal, very low levels can cause reactions.
but the vaccines still contain lots of neurotoxics and the kids get lots of other mercury and
toxic metal exposures other than from vaccines, thus synergistic effects with the vaccines.

[cosmik debris]

45. Well, everybody knows

Comments in a Yahoo group are more credible that a double blind study published in a peer reviewed journal like JAMA.

:rofl:


Why do you disbelieve the big pharma companies that sell vaccines, but you automatically believe the big pharma companies that sell chelation therapy? Could it be confirmation bias? I think so.

more :rofl:

The bottom line still remains: If you had cured "hundred of thousands" of cases of autism, we would not be having this discussion. There would be no need for it.

and more :rofl:

[kestrel91316]

3. It's not the vaccines. It never WAS the vaccines.

The statistical evidence was in on this a long time ago.

My money is on genetic predisposition with an environmental contaminant as the trigger. Blame the PLASTICS.

[chicagomd]

8. Agree.

Now if we can just get people to stop spending money on this bogus link and route it to services that support kids and parents who have their world turned upside down by autism I will be a happy doctor.

[dropkickpa]

12. Exactly.

Imagine how many more kids could get GOOD early intervention, OT/PT etc if people would just stop throwing money at this specific research.

[philb]

24. Fact that it was the vaccines in large numbers of cases is well documented

Gov't agencies confirm that large numbers were killed or signif. damaged by vaccines and the many clinics treating autistic kids have by test found high toxic metal toxicity, and found the kids reovered/signif. improved after detoxification treatment.
This has been consistently confirmed by many thousands of medical tests and many thousands of clinical cases.

The documentation from Gov't agencies, Congressional Committee study findings, medical studies, clinical cases has been posted on other vaccine threads related to this subject. There is no credible evidence to the contrary, and could not be since the results have been consistently confirmed by medical tests in large numbers of cases.

The fact that not all cases are caused by vaccines and that mercury/thimerosal is not the only neurotoxic or immunotoxic substance in vaccines does not change the fact that based on those tested and treated, vaccines and toxic metal exposures are the most common causes found, and detox. treatments consistently improve their condition.

www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
www.flcv.com/suscept.html
etc.

[philb]

13. This study has been shown to have big problems, not consistent with studies

with more careful and consistent effort

but also the stuff they replaced thimerisol with has been shown to be neurotoxic, etc.
(from another forum)

They replaced it with 2-phenoxyethanol, a combination of phenol and ethylene
oxide. It is an irritant, causes dermatitis, burns, blisters, cancer in
female lab mice. In 1978, the EPA banned its use in pesticides due to
mutagenicity and testicular effects in lab animals.

Thomas Vogt, Michael Landthaler and Wilhelm Stolz. 1998 Generalized eczema in an 18-month-old boy due to phenoxyethanol in DPT vaccine
Bohn S, Bircher AJ. Phenoxyethanol-induced urticaria. Allergy. 2001 Sep;56(9):922-3. No abstract available.PMID: 11551266
Schmuck G, Steffens W, Bomhard E. 2-Phenoxyethanol: a neurotoxicant? Arch Toxicol. 2000 Jul;74(4-5):281-7. No abstract available.PMID: 10959804
Musshoff U, Madeja M, Binding N, Witting U, Speckmann EJ. Effects of 2-phenoxyethanol on N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor-mediated ion currents. Arch Toxicol. 1999 Feb;73(1):55-9.PMID: 10207615
The actions were examined of 17 frequently used glycol ether compounds on the glutamate receptor-mediated ion currents. The receptors were expressed in Xenopus oocytes by injection of rat brain mRNA. Most of the 17 glycol ethers exerted no effects on the glutamate subreceptors activated by kainate and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), whereas 2-phenoxyethanol (ethylene glycol monophenyl ether) caused a considerable reduction of NMDA-induced membrane currents in a reversible and concentration-dependent manner. The threshold concentration of the ethylene glycol monophenyl ether effect was < 10 mumol/l. The concentration for a 50% inhibition (IC50) was approximately 360 mumol/l. The results indicate a neurotoxic potential for 2-phenoxyethanol.
Morton WE. Occupational phenoxyethanol neurotoxicity: a report of three cases.J Occup Med. 1990 Jan;32(1):42-5.PMID: 2324842
2-Phenoxyethanol, used as an anesthetic for handling small fish at a salmon hatchery, caused three women to experience headache and symptoms of intoxication during use, followed by diminished sensation and strength of hands and fingers, worse in the preferred hand. Persistent neuropathy did not develop in any of them. After 1 to 2 years of exposure, the women manifested gradual onset of symptoms of cognitive impairment with an inability to work. Neuropsychologic testing verified that all three had focal cognitive impairments that persisted. One also had documented labyrinthine hypofunction, which originated during this exposure. The immediate and delayed effects of 2-phenoxyethanol on the central nervous system resemble those of the other organic solvents.
G. Schmuck, W. Steffens, E. Bomhard 2-Phenoxyethanol: a neurotoxicant? Arch Toxicol (2000) 74: 281—283
U. MuBhoff, M. Madeja, N. Binding, U. Witting, E.-J. Speckmann. 2-Phenoxyethanol: a neurotoxicant? Reply. Arch Toxicol (2000) 74: 284-287 Reply. Arch Toxicol (2000) 74: 284-287
In summary, we found an antagonistic effect of 2-phenoxyethanol on the NMDA responses in voltage-clamp experiments with the Xenopus oocyte expression system. Since most of the NMDA antagonists exert profound neurobehavioural and neurotoxic effects, we discussed the possibility that 2-phenoxyethanol also possesses a neurotoxic potential, a conclusion which certainly is fully justified when considering all our and other published data.
Ulrich Mubhoff, Michael Madeja, Norbert Binding, Ute Witting, Erwin-Josef, Speckmann. Arch Toxicol (1999) 73: 55-59 Effects of 2-phenoxyethanol on N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor-mediated ion currents
Government Transcript of the 8/12/99 Workshop on Thimerosol Vaccines
Quote from Dr. Mary Teeling, Medical Director of the Ireland Medicines Board, during the above workshop:
”Perhaps I'm getting old and a bit cynical, but I'm really not sure that we have the full safety picture on 2-phenoxyethanol. It certainly does look to be a safe and efficacious vaccine -- preservative, but we're actually not 100 percent sure about either of these at this point in time. Formaldehyde has also been used. Now, there are other preservatives that have been used in other medicinal products, like benzochromium chloride. I think the important thing is that for a preservative to be used, they must fulfill the European Pharmacopeia specifications. That's a requirement in order to get a license either nationally or at community level in the European Union. So they do have -- So they will, more or less, fulfill the PH Euro requirements. But we're not really -
Ever how much information we have on thimerosal, I think we have less on the others. So you're into a situation, or are you -- You know the phrase, "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know." And I think that's a very important aspect of this whole review.”
Source for much of the above http://www.childscreen.org/2PE.htm
www.whale.to/a/phenoxyethanol.html

2-Phenoxyethanol (2-PE) is a chemical substance presently used as a preservative in several vaccines. 2-PE contains phenol, which has the ability to inhibit phagocyte activity, meaning it is toxic to all cells. The phenol in 2-PE is capable of disabling the immune system's primary response mechanism. It can also cause systemic poisoning, headache, shock, weakness, convulsions, kidney damage, cardiac failure, kidney failure, or death. 2-PE also contains ethylene oxide, which is an irritant causing dermatitis, burns, blisters, and eczema.
Vaccines containing 2-Phenoxyethanol

At this time there are five vaccines containing 2-PE.

Hepatitis A Vaccine, Inactivated

Havrix® SmithKline Beecham Biologicals

http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_havrix.pdf


DAPTACEL Manufactured by: Aventis Pasteur

http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/DAPTACEL_
3973_6.02.pdf


Poliovirus Vaccine Inactivated

IPOL¨ Manufactured by: Aventis Pasteur

http://www.us.aventispasteur.com/PRODUCT/PDFFILES/IP
OL.pdf



INFANRIX ® HepB Combined Diphtheria-Tetanus-
acellular Pertussis (DTPa) and Hepatitis B Vaccine
SmithKline Beecham Biologicals

http://www.gsk.com.au/PDFs/INFANRIXHB.pdf



TETRAVAC® Suspension for i.m. (intramuscular?)
Injection - Used only in Germany.

Toxicology report on 2-Phenoxyethanol
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/2-phenoxyethanol.htm

[TZ]

15. Hey its Dr. Google again

Actually there have been plenty of studies BY SCIENTIFIC GROUPS, not political groups that prove this.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosal.htm
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm
But of course what does NIH/NIAID know.
Your links don't work, and those that do don't go to a scientific page.
As for your claims that vaccines have another "dangerous" substance in them.
Considering that THOUSANDS of tox studies are done on each and every vaccine before it comes to market-- Your claims are out right lunacy.
But what do I know again? I only worked at NIH with a brilliant vaccine researcher and helped with some of those many many many TOX studies.
I will say it again. You know less about biology than most HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.
BTW, I also have my data published in the Procedings of the National Academy of Science. Remind me of your academic chops again? Science for Kindergardeners? How to cut n paste to look less like a moron?

On edit: Who found this study has problems? You? BWAHAHAHA. Why should anyone believe anything that comes out of your mouth when you clearly don't even know how to read and interpret a scientific study!

[philb]

27. My main sources include NIH Medline as you know; most studies I quote are there

but I also have many thousands of clinical case histories and many thousands of medcial lab tests related to those cases.
You have nothing of this nature, and no evidence to the contrary.

There is no credible study or studies that have documented that thimerosal/vaccines haven't caused deaths, signif. damage to large numbers, autism other neurological conditions in millions- which is confirmed by Gov't agency documentation, medical studies, and the clincial case/study documentation that I've posted.

[TZ]

29. You haven't posted real studies stupid, nothing I have seen is from NIH

You have cut n pasted from tinfoil hat type sites.
Every single vaccine on the market has 10 years worth of clinical trial data (you can find this at NIAID btw) including tox and safety and potency data.
So who outside of NIH, WHO, Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, FDA, and the thousands of medical research universities and regulatory agencies in other countries is credible. All these places have data which shoots down your stupidity.
Again, who wants to take advice about vaccines from someone who doesn't even understand what a virus is or how ANTIBODIES work.

[philb]

68. You are clearly wrong as usual; as I noted most of the studies cited are in Medline

see my main cites and check against Medline: www.nlm.nih.gov

www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
www.flcv.com/fetaln.html
www.flcv.com/autismhg.html
etc.

[lizerdbits]

16. How much spamming until people get banned?

A lot apparently. :eyes:

[xchrom]

59. i SO want to recommend your reply.

the spam posted here is not scientifically based -- and it's frustrating that we have to repeat -- and show -- that over and over with no effect.

[Orrex]

18. So let me get this straight...

Thimerosal causes autism and non-Thimerosal causes autism? It's a wonder than any of us escaped vaccination with our neurochemistries intact!


I believe that I'm not alone in expressing frustration that, for at least several years, your posts have contained almost no arguments and are instead simply a regurgitation of countless self-referential links. You reject all studies conducted with rigorous scientific controls because these are, somehow, inherently tainted, but you accept without question every study that supports your whacked-out belief, no matter how poor the methodology or how weakly it correlates to the issue at hand.

Lizardbits is absolutely right in identifying your post as spam, and in fact your posts have been little but spam for a long time.

It would be nice to discuss this issue with someone capable of forming a more reasoned argument, or any argument for that matter. Instead, we see rational and well-informed people again and again refuting your nonsense not in hope of convincing you (which is clearly impossible) but rather in the hope that innocent readers won't read your spam and mistakenly conclude that it contains anything of value.

I, for one among many, am sick of the quack medical advice that you offer again and again without apparent concern for the consequences or impact.

[Liberal Veteran]

19. So have they found the vector that causes extreme gullibility and refusal to accept real science?

:D

[philb]

20. 3 year Congressional study found mercury thimerosal a common cause of autism

On May 21, 2003, after a three year investigation, "The Mercury in Medicine Report" was released by the House Committee on Government Reform, and stated in part:

"Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is directly related to the autism epidemic. This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding a lack of safety data regarding injected thimerosal and the sharper eyes of infant exposure to this known neurotoxin. The public health agencies' failure to act is indicative of institutional malfeasance for self protection and misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry.

Dr. Weldon (MD), a Congressman from Florida was involved in that process and put a personal statement in the record supporting the findings.

[chicagomd]

23. I didn't know

Congress was such an excellent source of scientific information.

[philb]

26. They took testimony from lots of doctors, scientists, & some on Committee were MDs

the science is pretty clear and overwhelming, as the Congressional Committee found.

You can find the documentation that was presented in the Hearing transcripts, there was lots; and there was no credible evidence presented to the contrary.

If there was such evidence, why wasn't it presented? Gov't agency staff involved in these issues participated.

[TZ]

28. So they IGNORED all of NIH's data?

BTW, we are talking about the same people who think its okay to spy on its citizens, thinks that the 2000 election was "fair" and refuses to impeach the criminals of Bush and Cheney.
Why would ANYBODY GIVE ANY CREDENCE TO CONGRESS?
And btw, the people who make the idotic claims you do, keep losing in vaccine court. Why is that? Cause there's no evidence.
Once again here are the authorities on vaccines:World Health Organization:
Thiomersal and vaccines

In 1999, concerns were raised in the United States of America about exposure to mercury in vaccines. This was based on the realization that the cumulative amount of mercury in the infant immunization schedule potentially exceeded the recommended threshold set by one of the United States government agencies for methyl mercury. However thiomersal, the preservative in some vaccines, contains ethyl mercury and not methyl mercury. The Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) first assessed this issue in a special meeting in August 2000 and continues to review the safety aspect of thiomersal-containing vaccines as new evidence emerges. In the latest review by the committee (at its meeting of 6-7 June 2006) the conclusion previously reached was reaffirmed that there is no evidence of toxicity in infants, children or adults exposed to thiomersal in vaccines.

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/en/index.html
Oh yeah and for the 20th time, NIH data:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosal.htm

So Dr. Full-of-Shit do you or Congress know more about this than the world class immunologists at NIH and at WHO?
Oh wait I forgot you are the expert..Mr. I say its true because I say so!
Don't know when to quit do you?

:dunce: :dunce: :dunce:

[philb]

37. They took all studies and experts into account- especially NIH and WHO

info, a lot of which support my case. The fact that you can find some anywhere with different opinions isn't new.
As you know I quote a lot of NIH and WHO studies and information; likewise with the hearings;
but the deal is you have to look at the information and see what the real data and documentation support. they did that.
I don't claim you should believe anything just because I say so, I never have. I always provide credible study documentation and lots of real case history documentation based on MD findings using thousands of medical lab tests, etc.

You might note that I have been quoting real world class immonologists with real experience on these issues. So it comes down to the evidence. Who's got the real data support for their case. I still haven't seen yours- but would be interested in seeing it. But you can't get anywhere without testing and analyzing the kids who have the condition- I've provided documentation on that.

[TZ]

30. Oh and some on that committee who were "MD"s

also think that you can get AIDS from sneezing and diagnosed Terry Schiavo's medical condition by looking at a video. Yeah. Real credible MD's there Dr. Frist!

[philb]

39. I didn't think Dr. Frist entirely wonderful, but he's not involved with this committee

Are you saying that its your opinion that Dr. Weldon for example is not knowledable about such issues. He has experience with the issue outside of the hearings and has done lots of research on the issues. What is your basis for claiming you are sure you know more than he? He also had the benefit of the testimony, studies, etc. from lots of experts and agency info.

[LeftishBrit]

41. Weldon was at least as bad as Frist on the Terri Schiavo issue

According to his Wikipedia entry:

'In response to the legal battle over the removal of the feeding tube of Terri Schiavo, Weldon introduced legislation to force review of the case by the federal government. Weldon, a medical doctor, believed that Schiavo was not in a vegetative state. He supported his belief saying, "She responds to verbal stimuli, she attempts to vocalize, she tracks with her eyes, she emotes, she attempts to kiss her father."<1>'

Not sure I'd take his word for much after that!

[philb]

66. Schiavo was mostly about religion; nothing like the other issue which is strictly medical science

[LeftishBrit]

75. Frist and Weldon provided what they considered 'medical science' in the Schiavo case

If they were so ready to let their beliefs affect their medical judgement in one case, then why trust them in another?

And frankly your extreme anti-vaccine views are a bit like a fundamentalist religion! You don't just point out possible dangers of vaccines; you argue that practically EVERY disease is caused predominantly by vaccines and could be prevented by not vaccinating (rather as some religious fundies think everything can be cured through prayer or faith in God). If this were the case, don't you think that life expectancy and health would have been better in the days before vaccines? You argue that the increase in vaccines has caused increases in every disease under the sun. How do you square this with the fact that the life expectancy in developed countries has been steadily rising over the years? Even if you don't think that vaccines have contributed to this, they obviously haven't prevented it!

[trotsky]

31. I call bullshit, philb.

The representatives on that committee (controlled, of course, by Republicans at the time - Weldon of course included) have no more expertise than YOU do when it comes to immunology, autism, thimerosal, and vaccination. They made a scientific pronouncement when they had absolutely no right to do so. The experts who DO know what they're talking about say there is no link, and your emotional unsupported pleas to the contrary are wasted and will cause far greater harm.

[philb]

32. You can call what you want, but I have real documentation and you don't & the hearings were comprehe

nsive with lots of experts and agency people participating.

And you are not in a position to know anything about the knowledge of MDs like Dr. Weldon and others involved in
the Congressional hearings on these issues. The hearing transcripts are available, I've seen a good bit of it, and the case for a connection was clearly stronger than any evidence presented against. You can find it, check it out.

But the Congressional hearings conclusions were consistent with the findings of many credible peer-reviewed studies and clinical studies documenting mercury and toxic metals toxicity in most kids diagnosed with autism who've been tested and treated, and with results of autism treatment clinic MDs treating thousands of such kids supported by hundreds of thousands of tests by medical labs.
See the other autism thread, I don't want to repeat that again.

[trotsky]

33. You have NO documentation.

You misrepresent results.

You cite irrelevant, unconfirmed, and/or unreviewed studies.

I'll trust experts in the field over Congressional Republicans, thankyouverymuch. YMMV.

[philb]

38. You still haven't made a case that anything I've presented is inaccurate

I've given lots of details; which ones specifically have you found to be inaccurate and what is the basis?

And there were Dems on the Committee of the same opinion, and with quotes likewise. The findings were approved by the whole committee.

[LeftishBrit]

42. While Democrats are at least less likely than Republicans to be influenced by fundie dogma...

I would not consider even Democratic politicians as scientific experts.

[trotsky]

43. I don't need to prove a negative.

You need to prove you have the information you claim.

You haven't.

[philb]

70. I do, & here's more on hugely increased mercury exposures in recent years in these kids

The newer mercury dental fillings cause much higher mercury exposure in those who have amalgam fillings than older silver fillings.
The level of mercury and copper released from high copper amalgam is as much as 20 times that of low copper amalgams(191). Studies have consistently found modern high copper non gamma-two amalgams have a high negative current and much greater release of mercury vapor than conventional silver amalgams and are more cytotoxic (258,298,299).

(191) D.Brune et al, Gastrointestinal and in vitro release of metals from conventional and copper-rich amalgams. Scand J Dent Res, 1983,91:66-71 &(b) Dependence of kinetic variables in the short-term release of Hg(2+), Cu (2+) and Zn (2+ )ions into synthetic saliva from an high-copper dental amalgam. Campus G, Garcia-Godoy F, et al; Mater Sci Mater Med. 2007 Mar 27; & (c)
“Metal release from dental materials”, Biomaterials, 1986, 7, 163-175.

(258) Ely, J.T.A., Mercury Induced Alzheimer’s Disease: Accelerating Incicdence?, Bull Environ Contam Toxicol,
2001, 67: 800-6.
(298) C. Toomvali, “Studies of mercury vapor emission from different dental amalgam alloys”, LIU-IFM-Kemi-EX 150, 1988; & A.Berglund,”A study of the release of mercury vapor from different types of amalgam alloys”, J Dent Res, 1993, 72:939-946; & D.B.Boyer, “Mercury vaporization from corroded dental amalgam” Dental Materials, 1988, 4:89-93; &V.Psarras et al, “Effect of selenium on mercury vapor released from dental amalgams”, Swed Dent J, 1994, 18:15-23; & L.E.Moberg, “Long term corrosion studies of amalgams and Casting alloys in contact”, Acta Odontal Scand 1985, 43:163-177; & L.E. Moberg, “Corrosion products from dental alloys”, Published Dissertation, Stockholm, 1985.
(299) H. Lichtenberg, “Mercury vapor in the oral cavity in relation to the number of amalgam fillings and chronic mercury poisoning”, Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1996, 11:2, 87-94.

Due to these huge mercury exposures in people with mercury(silver) dental fillings in recent years, the average person with several fillings excretes approx. 30 micrograms of mercury into sewers daily, and dental amalgam is the largest source of the high mercury levels in all sewers (EPA/Municipal Sewer Agencies measurements) www.flcv.com/damspr2f.html
And dental fillings are a major source of mercury in water bodies and fish, etc. - with 30% of all U.S. water bodies having warning.

As documented by thousands of medical lab tests those with amalgam fillings have approx. 10 times more mercury exposure than those without, and huge levels of exposure above Gov't health guidelines, which directly impacts the kids.
(see Doctors Data lab web site) www.flcv.com/damspr1.html

It has been documented that Mother's mercury fillings and metal crowns over amalgam are one of the largest sources of mercury in the fetus and in infants. Also from breast feeding.
www.flcv.com/fetaln.html


The phase out process for mercury in vaccines also has been very slow, there never was a ban on use of vaccines with thimerosal and it took several years before vaccines in some areas had less thimerosal. Fish is also a major mercury source and this was not controlled in the studies cited. Fish these days have high levels and this wasn't controlled for in the studies.

There has also been a huge campaign to get more pregnant women and infants vaccinated with flu vaccines which have high levels of mercury.

So in many of the kids in recent years there has been a big increase in mercury exposure, and studies that don't measure mercury levels in the kids have no way of assessing the effects of mercury on autism for different years.
Note the studies I provided controlled for these problems. Studies that don't aren't valid.

[philb]

71. Increased aluminum levels due to more vaccintions caused large synergistic toxic effect with mercury

Aluminium/Mercury Synergistic Effects
"We have demonstrated the toxicity of thimerosal by using it to kill neurons in culture. At 50 nanomolar thimerosal the neuron killing capacity/rate is about doubled with the addition of levels of aluminum found in vaccines. The aluminum alone at this level is not demonstrated to be toxic, so it is enhancing the toxicity of the thimerosal. It likely does this by increasing the rate that thimerosal breaks down releasing ethylmercury which is the toxic material" -------Testimony Prof Boyd Haley, University of Kentucky, Chair and Head of Chemistry.......

Another important factor with regard to mercury on the mind, which officials at the CDC, FDA and the professors in the IOM do not consider, is synergistic toxicity - mercury's enhanced effect when other poisons are present. A small dose of mercury that kills 1 in 100 rats and a dose of aluminum that will kill 1 in 100 rats, when combined have a striking effect: all the rats die. Doses of mercury that have a 1 percent mortality will have a 100 percent mortality rate if some aluminum is there. Vaccines contain aluminum.
Mercury on the Mind by Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD

"One publication showed that combining mercury and lead both at LD1 levels caused the killing rate to go to 100% or to an LD100 level (12). An LD1 level is where, due to the low concentrations, the mercury or the lead alone was not very toxic alone (i.e., killed less than 1% of rats exposed when metal were used alone). The 100% killing, when addition of 1% plus 1% we would expect 2%, represents synergistic toxicity. Therefore, mixing to non-lethal levels of mercury plus lead gave an extremely toxic mixture! What this proves is that one cannot define a “safe level of mercury” unless you absolutely know what others toxicants the individual is being exposed to. The combined toxicity of various materials, such as mercury, Thimerosal, lead, aluminum, formaldehyde, etc., is unknown. The effects various combinations of these toxicants would have is also not defined except that we know they would be much worse than any one of the toxicants alone. So how could the ADA take any exception, based on intellectual considerations, to my contention that combinations of Thimerosal and mercury could exacerbate the neurological conditions identified with autism and AD? Autism and AD have clinical and biological markers that correspond to those observed in patients with toxic mercury exposure. Why would the ADA take this position? I personally feel like I have been in a ten-year argument with the town drunk on this issue. Facts don’t count and data is only valid if it meets the pro-amalgam agenda......The synergistic effects of mercury with many of the toxicants commonly found in our environment make the danger unpredictable and possibly quite severe, especially any mixture containing elemental mercury, organic mercury and other heavy metal toxicants such as aluminum."- -Boyd Haley http://www.whale.to/m/haley.html

Also significant effects of increased aluminum exposure from increased number of vaccinations over time.
www.flv.com/vaxalum.html

[cosmik debris]

72. Dr. philb is here to help!

[philb]

35. Analysis of this DDS data shows the statements quoted here aren't supported by the data

and that the study discussed here was very imprecise and not supportive of making conclusions about causation factors, other than that has been a huge increase in autism incidence in the last 20 years.

Analysis Summary
The SafeMinds analysis of this paper examines the DDS data set, the thimerosal exposure
information in the paper, and Schechter and Grether’s interpretation of the findings as
summarized in their concluding statement above. Subsequent to this analysis, SafeMinds
has determined that the data can equally support thimerosal exposure as a primary
causative role, if autism causation is multifactorial. Vaccine components and
environmental mercury, as well as other toxicants( including other toxic metals and pesticides)
are additional likely candidates (that have been identified by other studies and test information).
Deficiencies of the DDS data as an epidemiology resource and imprecise thimerosal
exposure assumptions and (lack of sufficient comparable data in recent age groups) make
determination of the contribution of thimerosal to autism rates difficult. The increase in autism
cases reported by Schechter and Grether since the 1980s highlights the urgency of the autism
epidemic and the need to institute a rigorous and comprehensive environmental factors
research program.


Conclusions based on analysis of the DDS data set
There are many more autistic children being enrolled in the DDS system in the 2000s
than in the 1980s, consistent with CDC studies showing an increase in rates among
children born in the 1990s. The trend among younger children and its relationship to
thimerosal and other environmental exposures are still not clear. Thus, the data in the
Schechter & Grether paper supports these critical points:
1. The autism epidemic is real and not solely an artifact of better diagnostic practices or
changing diagnostic criteria. Autism is a national emergency and requires more
government focus.
2. The increase supports a strong environmental role in autism causation.
Environmental triggers are interacting with autism susceptibility genes to produce
autistic symptoms. More autism research funding should be allocated to studying
environmental causes.
3. This study does not rule out any causative agent. The imprecision of the DDS data
and uncertainties over thimerosal dose is too great, especially for the younger age
groups, on which the authors’ argument rests. The imprecision argues the need for
more rigorous epidemiology studies that can adequately describe autism prevalence
trends from the 1980s to the present.
4. The study does not rule out thimerosal, even as a “primary” causative factor, if
multiple agents are operating on different subgroups, at different time periods, or over
different geographies. Thimerosal may have been a primary or important factor in the
beginnings of autism and the rapid rise in the 1990s; the DDS data are agnostic on
this interpretation. Thimerosal remains a top candidate for contributing to cases from
1930 to the present and the need for it to be investigated fully remains strong.
5. Other environmental factors are being identified as playing a role in autism but none
has been adequately studied. 27 The environmental causes of autism are likely to be
multiple and complex. A comprehensive research agenda that systematically studies
all leading candidates for environmental triggers is urgently needed.
http://www.safeminds.org/government/safeminds-analysis-schechter-grether-01-08v2.pdf


Additionally, it has been pointed out that not all thimerosal was taken out of the vaccines the kids were receiving even as late as 2003, and even after that time most vaccines contained some thimerosal- enough to affect kids who were highly immune reactive to thimerosal and other vaccince ingredients (which is common, www.melisa.org)
Also it has been documented that the children often get high levels of mercury exposure from their mother's amalgam fillings and from Mom's RhoGam shots for Mom's who are RH negative, and from other sources. Likewise high levels of other toxic metals have been found by the doctors treating the autistic children that were factors in the condition and in recovery when detoxed. (As previously documented) In recent years flu shots with lots of mercury have been encouraged in Mom’s including pregnant Mom’s and also in kids. Flu shots have extremely high levels of thimerosal.
Children aren't typically diagnosed with autism until around 3 years old and often after this and don't enter these data sets. There are no recent 3 to 12 year old data sets of children who did not receive thimerosal in vaccines. The only such data sets are among groups like Amish and similar, where studies have found extremely low autism rates among groups of kids who weren't vaccinated.
None of these factors were contolled in this study, and the no comparable data groupings for recently born children exist comparable to earlier periods.
All that can be concluded is that autism and other neurological condition rates have increased greatly and more and more careful studies need to be done to assess the causes.

[philb]

36. Studies of unvaccinated groups of kids find extremly low autism rates

(there have been several studies like this for Amish and other such groups- this from Wikipedia which gives references)
Dan Olmsted
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dan Olmsted is an investigative reporter and senior editor for United Press International (UPI), and wrote The Age of Autism report series about autism. His columns on health and medicine appeared regularly in the Washington Times and were syndicated nationally from UPI's Washington D.C. bureau.



The Age of Autism
>From January 2005 through July 2007, Olmsted wrote about his investigative findings concerning the possibility that autism's incidence rate has risen throughout the United States and elsewhere in a series of columns titled The Age of Autism. Though most mainstream experts think autism is a genetic disorder and that reported increases are due to changes in diagnostic practices, Olmsted thinks the increases are due to environmental factors and that the genetics is mostly secondary.<1>

By April, 2005, Olmsted had begun searching for children who had not been exposed to mercury in vaccines, the kind of population that scientists typically use as a 'control' in experiments. Because of the unlikelihood of finding a large enough group of unvaccinated children to compare with those who have been vaccinated, Olmsted learned, government medical officials have not yet conducted an epidemiological study with such a control group - despite the urging of many parents and some medical professionals who suspect a link between autism and vaccines. While the federal government has worked to prevent scientists from studying the adverse effects of vaccines, recommending research dollars should be spent elsewhere, journalists like Olmsted and others have stepped in to study the link to autism.<1>

Olmsted looked for such a group that might establish demonstrative evidence of whether a link exists, and caught wind of scattered reports that autism was virtually unheard of among the Amish, prompting him to begin investigating what has come to be known as the 'Amish anomaly'. The Amish rarely vaccinate children, and Olmsted found a family doctor in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, who had treated thousands of Amish patients. The doctor indicated he had never seen an Amish person with autism. Based on the national rate of autism, Olmsted determined there should be 130 Amish children with autistic syndrome around Lancaster County. After an exhaustive search, he found four. One had been exposed to high levels of mercury from a power plant and the others had been vaccinated.

Olmsted then traveled to Amish communities in Ohio and Indiana, with similar results. In the Amish community around Middlefield, Ohio, the autism rate was one in 15,000, according to the medical director at a clinic for special needs children there. In contrast, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has estimated the nationwide prevalence rate at one in 166.

Olmsted later discovered another large unvaccinated group, thousands of children cared for by Homefirst Health Services in and around Chicago, Illinois; according to Homefirst doctors, none of these children has autism. "We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Homefirst's medical director, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein.

[trotsky]

44. Dan Olmsted = complete fraud.

Keep trying.

[philb]

67. Silly remark again; his web site is very informative; lots of studies and info referenced there

He has an interest in the kids and families circumstances and does interviews with them to let them express their problems and experiences.
I don't know if he is an MD or PhD but if not thats ok. Everyone has a role. His role is compiling info from MDs and PhDs and parents of autistic kids of interest to other parents of autistic kids and other interested in the condition.

[cosmik debris]

69. Looks like dog shit

smells like dog shit.

tastes like dog shit.

I'm sure glad I didn't step in it!

:rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=30498&mesg_id=30607

[Evoman]

48. Autism is caused by teh gay.

Think about it: there never used to be so many gay people. But as gayness has become more and more prevalent, autism has too.

Therefore gay and autism are linked. And I've already ruled out that autism causes gayness because I'm a moron idiot homophobe, and that's just the way I roll.

You heard it here first.

[SidDithers]

57. No, autism was kept in check by pirates...

When the pirate population was high, autism was almost unheard of. But with the catastrophic decrease of pirate genes in the world gene pool, autism has exploded. The only solution to the autism epidemic is an immediate and massive pirate breeding program.



Sid

[philb]

49. Chelation: The Real Story Behind the Misleading Headline (most effective treatment by far) AA

Chelation: The Real Story Behind the Misleading Headlines

Autism Research Review International , 2005, Vol. 19, No. 3, page 3 http://www.autism.com/ari/editorials/ed_chelationstory.htm
http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/treatment/form34q.htm#biomedical

“Death of boy linked to controversial chelation therapy,” the headlines shouted. The tragic story of a young autistic boy who died after suffering cardiac arrest following a round of chelation therapy provided mainstream physicians with a golden opportunity to crow about “quackery,” foolish and impressionable parents “grasping for straws,” and the dangers of “unproven” alternative treatments for autism.

To my knowledge, none of these doctors retracted their comments following the recent report issued by Mary Jean Brown of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. According to Brown, the boy’s death resulted, quite simply, from a drug error. The problem, according to Brown: a “look-alike” drug, Disodium EDTA, was mistakenly used instead of Calcium Disodium EDTA. Brown stated that “without a doubt” the mix-up caused the boy’s cardiac arrest, and she noted moreover that the correct treatment is virtually harmless.

So we have one tragic death, resulting not from proper chelation procedures as used by hundreds of doctors, but apparently from a medical mistake. Weighed against this, we have tens of thousands of children and hundreds of thousands of adults who have been treated safely with chelation therapy for decades. According to physician Ralph Miranda, former president of the American College for Advancement in Medicine, there have been no deaths associated with correctly-performed chelation in the past 50 years.

Since 1967 the Autism Research Institute has collected “Parent Ratings of Behavioral Effects of Biomedical Interventions.” To date, almost 25,000 parent responses have been collected. Chelation is a recent addition to our list of interventions. So far, of the first 470 parents who reported on the efficacy of chelation, 75% report “good” results, which is by far the highest “good” percentage reported for any of the 88 biomedical interventions (including 53 drugs) the parents have rated. (See: www.treatmentratings.com .)

Drug options commonly used have been found by our survey to be much less effective and much more dangerous. http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/treatment/form34q.htm

[philb]

50. Autism Assoc. survey of parents- chelation most effective and safest treatment

http://www.autism.com/ari/editorials/ed_chelationstory.htm
http://www.autismwebsite.com/ari/treatment/form34q.htm#biomedical

There is overwhelming evidence that vaccines/thimerosal have been the most significant factor in the majority of autism cases over the past 2 decades, and there are thousands of clinical case treatments documenting that chelation/detox is the most effective treatment for autism, Asperger's, ADHD, etc. The autism association has survery many thousands of parents and chelation was found to be by far more effective than any drug treatment for the conditions surveyed and also the safest, with 75% reporting beneficial and with only 2% reporting any adverse effects compared to much higher levels of adverse effects for most drug treatments.

This is consistent with the results of peer-reviewed medical studies www.flcv.com/vaxharm.html
www.flcv.com/kidhgh.html
and with the thousands of patients tested and treated by autism treatment clinics, some of which have been referenced
And the peer-reviewed medical studies have found the same things that the tests by the treatment clinics have found,
high toxic metals levels and affected metabolic and hormonal processes that improve along with behavioral measures after treatment. The experience testing and treating autistics is clear and consistent. Vaccines have been a major factor in autism and other children's neurological conditions. Along with other synergistic toxic exposures.

This is also similarly documented by studies summarizing the results of the Gov't agency VAERS data base for vaccine injury. some of this at www.flcv.com/vaxharm.html

[LeftishBrit]

51. 'Surveying thousands of parents' is NOT the most effective way to prove the safety of a treatment

First of all, there may be bias in the responses. Those parents who think that the treatment worked may be more likely to respond. And those who found the treatment damaging may not respond to a survey done by people who are perceived as supporting the treatment. Also, was the survey carried out randomly, among all parents whose children received any of a variety of treatments for autism, or could there have been sampling bias by the researchers in favour of parents who chose to persist with chelation treatment?

Secondly, do such studies include any ratings of outcome by people who do NOT know which treatment the children received? This is one of the most essential aspects of any clinical trial. Otherwise, ratings may be seriously biased.

[philb]

53. You are stretching again; the results were clear and overwhelming & consistent with tests and treatm

The overwhelming results of the parent reports-75% signif. improved by chelation treatment were much higher than for any other drug treatment, and likewise the safest treatment with least reported adverse effects (2%). Much higher adverse effects for other drug treatments. Additionally lots of those treated with detox become essentially normal and back doing well in school again, as you can see from the Video on the Autism Association site, that was referenced in another post under the DAN Doctor results, Autism is treatable.

The results of the large survey were consistent with the results of the many autism treatment clinics that have been testing and treating these kids. And have consistently found high mercury and other toxic metal toxicities and metabolic effects on the children documented to be commonly caused by mercury toxicity.

And also consistent with the large numbers of medical studies studying these kids that have documented that they consistently have high levels of mercury and other metals, with both the metabolic problems and behavioral problems improving as the detoxification treatment progresses. The mechanisms by which mercury causes conditions like autism, ADHD, eczema, learning disabilities, Asperger's, mood disorders, etc. is well documented in the medical literature that you apparently have not bothered to read. And the fact that the kids commonly recover from these conditions after detoxification is also well documented by medical studies and the results of the clinics treating the kids, as well as consistent with this large survey.
Medical study documentation:
www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
etc. etc.
Aparently for you guys this another case of another "Inconvenient Truth" that doesn't coincide with what you thought you knew. We couldn't be wrong, my org has 10 years of experience with thousands of cases and hundreds of thousands of medical lab tests along the way to treating these kids, and others have even more experience than us with similar results.
The problem is spreading the word about what works in treating such conditions. The doctors having success are overwhelmed with patient demand and there are long waiting times to get in to be treated by their clinics.

There are other groups of parents of kids with autism not discussed here, but with similar experience to that reported by the autism association. they also have websites with info similar to what is seen here.

[LeftishBrit]

54. The claim that kids commonly recover after detoxication

is NOT well documented in the medical literature!

There are some sites that claim it; but they are not run by independent medical scientists.

flcv.com is NOT a respected independent medical site; it is there to push a specific agenda. If chelation therapy is proved effective, why isn't everyone prescribing and using it? It's just the sort of treatment that 'Big Pharma' could make a huge profit from, if there were anything in it - why aren't all the big pharmaceutical companies trying to get a patent on it so as to cash in on it? Why are there no reliable reports on its effectiveness in journals such as "The Lancet", "British Medical Journal", "New England Journal of Medicine", "Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders", "Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry", etc.? Why doesn't ANY of the evidence that you quote involve INDEPENDENT RATERS' evaluation of the effectiveness of the treatment?

[philb]

55. FLCV.com is just a web site that my organization uses, the info is peer-reviewed articles

with references cited. Virtually all of the references cited on our web site review articles are peer-reviewed articles with abstracts that can be found in the NIH National Library of Medicine Medline, which is our main source of information for articles. Also gov't organizations in U.S. and other countries cited. Due to the overwheming evidence mercury is being phased out or banned in medical and dental applications in many countries with modern medical systems less controlled by special interests than the U.S. Our organization has lots of members, with a lot of them doctors and dentists. We have a regular newsletter that you might find interesting. We attend medical conferences throughout the year. Interact with doctors and dentists at the conferences, as well with patients and parents of patients at conferences related to Autism and MS and such.
It appears that you don't understand the politics and history of the mercury issue. There is a huge liability issue since most of the vaccine damage was related to shots given by doctors and likewise it has been documented that most chronic degenerative conditions are commonly caused by mercury (and majority of many of these conditions recover after mercury detox). Several univ. researchers with long term research experience on this issue have concluded that the health harm from mercury in vaccines and dental fillings is of a comparable magnitude to that from smoking, with millions affected and with trillions of dollars of liability at issue.
And if most cases of many chronic conditions (like autism or MS or Lupus or thyroiditis or eczema or CFS or etc.) are treatable successfully by detox there are a lot of other practitioners and treatments that are no longer needed. In case you are not aware there is a huge turf war out there related to alternative vs pharm treatments (most of which have more adverse effects and less effectiveness than non-pharm options- see the Austism Assoc. survey and similar on other independent sites I also follow) and also between those using different treatments and which treatments get covered by insurence. Its clearly not based on science or proven effectiveness. I've cited thousands of articles that are referenced on the web site based on years of compilation by our researchers, and many thousands of clinical cases. I still haven't seen even one credible article making a strong case to the contrary and am still waiting for it to be produced. I have no reason to exagerate or mislead you. Our org is non-profit and my time donated. We've come to our conclusions based on the clear case in the medical literature and over 10 years of experience with thousands of patients.

I'm very familiar with the literature and the journals that you bring up, and could also discuss that issue further, but think that better for another thread. I've discussed that before some. We have some big problems here with control by special interests but they can't cover up the overwhelming and consistent evidence forever. Its my opinion that there is clear scientific consensus among the researchers with real research experience and doctors actually testing and treating patients with these conditions. I've seen no credible studies, evidence, or credible doctor opinions to the contrary.
And we've collectively done a lot of looking and interacted with lots of patients and doctors.

[LeftishBrit]

56. Just to make ONE essential point here...

there are NO recommended 'pharm' treatments for autism (though there may be for conditions such as epilepsy which are sometimes associated with it).

Existing conventional treatments for autism are behavioural, not pharmaceutical. Chelation is far more 'pharmaceutical' than any conventionally recommended treatment!

[philb]

61. You are wrong; I know a lot of families who used Rx for their kids on MD orders

See the Autism Assoc. parents survey of what Rx drugs were prescribed for their kids and what worked and what didn't

Autism Research Institute
Parent Ratings of Behavorial Effects of Biomedical Interventions
http://www.autism.com/treatable/form34qr.htm

73% better after chelation/detox treatment only 3% worse
2nd most effective drug therapy was anti-fungal diflucan with 53% improved and 5% worse
most Rx drug treatments resulted in over 20% who got worse after treatment

Most effective non-drug supplement additions were melatonin, Vit B12, food allergy treatment, and zinc.

[cosmik debris]

73. philb dressed in "business casual"

[LeftishBrit]

74. I have seen this already; but it involved ALL the drugs the children had ever been prescribed

This is not the same thing as saying the drugs were prescribed FOR AUTISM. Children get prescribed drugs for all kinds of things. An autistic child, like a non-autistic child, can get strep throat and be prescribed antibiotics. An autistic child, like a non-autistic child (but more frequently) can get epilepsy and be prescribed anti-seizure medications. In neither case are the drugs prescribed for autism!

If a child with autism gets strep throat and is prescribed antibiotics, then one expects these to cure the strep throat - not the autism!

No mainstream doctor expects any currently known drug treatments to cure autism. And that includes chelation drugs, like any others.

[philb]

65. I've posted documentation that ARI says so, and the huge parent survey

and well done peer-reviewed studies that document it www.flcv.com/autismhg.html etc.
and the autism forum groups web site info
and the statements of doctors at the many clinics treating these kids.

I also have some videos of conference presentations by the doctors treating the kids that I could post if you like. Or you can find them at the austism association site

I have lots of videos by researchers and doctors on these topics. I've posted some on another thread.

[cgrindley]

60. Well... considering that autism spectrum disorders and aspergers now formally exist the increase

is not a fucking surprise. With the addition of new disorders and criteria into the DSM-IVtr, and with the training of more doctors to use the DSM-IVtr, it is totally not a surprise that there are more cases of autism.

it's like the argument that child sexual abuse didn't happen in the 1950s before we started looking for it.

[philb]

62. The idea you suggest has been looked at and shown invalid

The evidence that the increase is real has been given in another post. This issue has been researched and discussed lots. They have lots of studies breaking out the numbers into the various groups you mention, which I posted links to.

The huge increase in autism, ADD, learning disabilities, special eduction kids, eczema, asthma, diabetes is real and all of the increases have been shown to be real and due to the increase in vaccines with high levels of toxics like thimerosal, aluminum, etc.

I've documented all of that on another thread,

and in www.flcv.com/kidshg.html
www.flcv.com/tmlbn.html
www.flcv.com/diabetes.html
www.flcv.com/epilepsy.html
etc.

[dropkickpa]

63. Citing yourself, spamming your site on here yet again

:eyes:

[philb]

64. I never depend on cites to myself, but I have links to peer-reviewed studies and Gov't agency info

compiled on a web site to make it easier and quicker to provide info on topics.
Do you not bother to see whats at the URL? there really are relevant peer-reviewed studies on the topic there.
It would be extremely time consuming and wasteful to redo everything on the huge set of infomation every time info was provided for a specific question. anyone really interested in the subject can easily find the reference they are interested in.