My brothers and sisters, it is time to sit down in the front of the bus.

[sui generis]

If Rosa Parks, a lone black woman, stood up to white bigoted America and sat down in the front of the bus, then surely a few million of us can do the same in every state where you call yourself American.

I honestly don't know why we accept that someone else can tell us we can or cannot get married, that a LAW determines that our blood relatives arbitrarily have more rights over our lives than our life partners do, and that our choices in who we decide to commit to as a family unit are subject to review by people who don't know us, will never be near us and who would take up arms against us if we did the same to them and their families.

I am disgusted to my core by the supporting voters in California, and in our party, who voted for Obama and at the same time voted against us, and appalled that many of those voters were black. Have you forgotten that we stood with you in Selma? Have you forgotten that we have unerringly had your back when your rights were threatened or compromised from the most insignificant social situation to federal law? Have you forgotten we never saw skin color or religion or political affiliation as the measure of your human and civil rights? Have you forgotten we have had your back every step of the way? Have you lost your mind?

Rosa Parks was tired when she sat down. She was past caring if she got arrested, didn't care that it might take her out of her comfort zone and the daily routine, no longer cared if it was inconvenient for anyone else. She was a woman, not a black woman or a white woman, who wanted to sit down on the bus, like any other woman without being told that it mattered because of her skin color.

Being "gay" is not something that stands up to scientific proof. It is an idea, an abstract that you can only volunteer or accuse. It's not quantifiable or measurable. You can neither prove it, nor disprove it. How then is mere skin color a more worthy choice for discrimination? If anything, discriminating against someone because of an idea is so directly anathema to everything we hold dear as Americans, that for a person of color to do it, or a person who identifies with a party, idea, or ideal to do it is blatantly and profoundly unAmerican.

What California voted for was to agree that some humans do not have the right to make their own choices, based on something you can't see, can't prove, and cannot disprove. How very very dangerous, and now we would like to help you discover the consequence of that, of banning an idea, with quiet resolve, with legal action, with unity, and any other tool we can use to bring the fight to every unAmerican, in every state.

Standing up to California is NOT a matter of feeling sorry for ourselves. It is NOT a matter of avoiding discomfort, inconvenience, or complying with the law for the sake of compliance alone. If you believe that America has the right to keep you from getting married and that states have special rights about your ability to marry, define your family, and convey property, then you implicitly believe in the moral justifications behind slavery, apartheid, and segregation.

We have been told over and over that we aren't the same kind of American, or as good as any other American by our fellow Americans. We've been told that we're a danger to morale in the military while we are dying just as dead for our country, and coming home in covered boxes hidden from the press to unpublished funerals, to protect our living families and loved ones. We are sewing up your drunk kids in the emergency rooms without checking their sexual orientation, religious affiliation or skin color. We are giving jobs to your brothers and sisters and parents and kids based on their ability, not their political or religious or personal beliefs, breaking up your domestic quarrels (isn't that rich), patrolling your neighborhoods, giving to your charities and standing up for you whenever and wherever your civil rights are threatened, without regard to what you believe yourself to be, other than American.

And to be fair many have stood up for us as well, and many more afraid to stand up for us, because it is inconvenient, uncomfortable, and even dangerous.

But our friends and children and siblings and families and coworkers, and just plain decent strangers have stood up for human decency, and equality, and fairness, and for everything that being American means and this is an assault on them too. I like to think, they're as angry as we are, and as willing to support us as we fight on, that they have our back and we can depend on it. But we have to carry the fight - it is our duty to ourselves, regardless of comfort, convenience, or danger. We have to continue to fight for ourselves and to honor their support.

If the only way you can fight is to do nothing more than sit down, then please take a seat. After voting for Obama, not because he was black or because this was historic, or even because I'm a democrat, but voting because he was most qualified and spoke to the greatest needs of all Americans, I know I am tired now.

I am going to sit down now. In the front of the bus. Please join me.

[billyoc]

1. Direct Action gets the goods.

[sui generis]

44. here's a financial smack-back:

It costs us nothing to petition, essentially. It will cost the opposition group millions each time to counter our petitions.

Let's use their tactics. Let's petition that people who live in areas without public transportation or recycling programs should explicitly not be allowed to own guns. NRA minus 50 million dollars.

Petition to place your lifestyle-determined sexual orientation on your CA driver's license, and gay is the norm. Therefore if you are not married, or divorced too many times you will be considered gay until proven otherwise. Thus all teenagers of age to drive shall be considered gay.

Family Values heads explode EVERYWHERE. They raise money to defend their right to not be gay. Isn't that rich.

I'm telling you, if we really choose to fight we will be fucking some people up.

[billyoc]

58. I'm thinking about bringing back the time honored custom of streaking.

On Sunday.

In church.

[coffeenap]

2. k & r

I am a parent support group leader for the GSA at my daughter's high school. May I send this to them? There is a sense of fear and loss among some of them and this is just what they need to read. Many thanks!

[sui generis]

6. thank you! of course

be aware this isn't a call to civil disobedience for kids, but a call to what it means to be American and stand up for that, for ourselves and our supporters, with dignity.

Eventually I'd like to see this exclusively as an equal protection challenge, and furthermore that the language of "proposition" should never ever be used to reduce rights to a group of people.

The reason for our constitution is to define what it is to be an American, not a particular kind of American. It is supposed to protect the rights of the few from being usurped by the many, so a majority vote to take away the rights of a few people is in direct contradiction to the spirit of America and the idea of "constitution" as our ethos.

[Ms. Toad]

32. And why isn't it a call to civil disobedience for kids?

Particularly by high school, kids often have very well formed strongly held opinions. As long as they understand the consequences of committing the particular act of civil disobedience, more power to them.

Both my daughter and I either did, or were prepared to, participate in civil disobedience in high school - with our parents' support. I suffered some consequences; my daughter and her classmates ultimately found a different way to provide support that fell within the bounds of school rules. Neither of us regret that early understanding that some things are more important than playing by the rules (even though both of us are big time rule followers).

[sui generis]

35. well the nuance on civil disobedience is

no destruction of or defacing property, no violence, no serbo-croatian leftist guerilla tactics. :P

Some KINDS of civil disobedience are inappropriate, and working within the system FIRST is critically important. It is also important to recognize when the system is no longer relevant, when options have been exhausted. When you have nothing left to lose, you have extraordinary clarity and power over your choices.

Civil disobedience on the smaller scale - sure thing: it's symbolic more than direct

So, there are now lawsuits filed, let's wait and see where they go. If the outcome is absurd and irrational, or if they start dissolving marriages, THEN it is appropriate to start staging marches and blockades and other marginally non-peaceful forms of protest. Eventually, we will need to fire our straight employees, ask to our customers to sign diversity statements or not serve them, and beat the living shit out of anyone who gets in our face about our mistreatment of them. If we aren't protected by sexual orientation clauses, then neither are they. If we can't get married, we don't need to recognize their marriages. Etcetera. And, I am talking about our haters, not our friends.

Consequence is a huge deal to a kid trying to get into college or get a first job. . . .and I would rather one less voice than sacrifice someone's education and future because some vindictive person google-slammed somebody they saw in a protest.

There are many ways to contribute to the fight, starting with strength, grace, and dignity FIRST.

[Ms. Toad]

38. Civil disobedience has a much more honorable

meaning and my faith community has been participating in it since its origin: portering slaves on the underground railroad, marrying interracial couples the law forbid marrying, refusing to participate in war (to the point of being jailed for draft resistance), peacefully walking onto the grounds of the School of the Americas, refusing to require I-9 forms for employees, refusing to pay the portion of federal taxes which goes to support past, present, or future wars.

Each of these acts is forbidden by law, and each has been (or may yet be) critical to the creation of a just world. Each of them was undertaken as a quiet statement that I will do what my conscience dictates, regardless of what the law says - and regardless of the legal consequences.

Personally, I don't even consider destruction of or defacing property, violence, serbo-croatian leftist guerilla tactics" civil disobedience since much of that is done for the pure glee of getting back at someone who you perceive as having harmed you - and without the expectation that you are willing to suffer consequences, or in the long term hope to change the world by those actions.

[sui generis]

43. groovy! okay then

I admit I am utterly mercurial when it comes to impulse control. I DO want to hurt back: not for the sake of hurting but to show that if you can use a law to hurt any one group of people, you can use it to hurt everyone.

Therefore in a state where sexual orientation is not a protected EEO consideration, I would fire the next deserving person for being heterosexual.

In fact I might just fire them for being gay. Think about that for a moment :P.

[Maat]

39. Sui generis ... please look at Lambda Legal's language ...

I was very impressed with their language in their latest filing:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/publications/articles/proposition-8-challenged.html

From Lambda (Quote):
Lambda Legal, The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR) have urged the California Supreme Court to invalidate Proposition 8 if it passes. The groups argue that Prop. 8 is invalid because it was improperly attempts to undo the constitution's core commitment to equality and deprives the courts of their essential role of protecting the rights of minorities. According to the California Constitution, such a radical change in the way the courts and state government work cannot be decided by a simple ballot measure. The legal groups filed the writ petition on behalf of Equality California and six same-sex couples.

The California Constitution makes clear that a major change in the roles played by the different branches of government cannot be made by a simple majority vote through the initiative process, but at the very least must first go through the state legislature. Changes to the underlying principles of the constitution must be approved by two-thirds of both houses of the legislature before going to voters. That didn't happen with Proposition 8, and that's why it's invalid.

The groups filed a writ petition in the California Supreme Court before the elections, arguing that the initiative should not have appeared on the ballot. The court dismissed that petition without addressing its merits.

This would not be the first time the court has struck down an improper voter initiative ...

http://www.lambdalegal.org/publications/articles/proposition-8-challenged.html

[sui generis]

46. oh yes, I am aware

I am perfectly happy to wait for the lawsuits to process. But if they fail, look out! The prize should be bigger than California - and that equal protection clause needs to be in the U.S. constitution too.

_____

Lambda Legal is a very necessary step, but while we're waiting we should also be planning, and hoping we never have to go nuclear.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. I think we need to sit IN FRONT OF the bus

The Democratic Party and rank-and-file Democrats have made it very plain that we are not allowed on the bus at all. Our issues are "divisive," "distractions" and only serve as "wedges" which cause the party to split and allow the Republicans to win. We have never been relevant to the party, except as a guaranteed constituency to be milked of volunteer time and cash and then callously discarded until the next election.

We cannot sit at the front of the bus, because we are not allowed onto the bus at all. So I say, we sit in front of the bus. Keep the bus from moving at all until we can ride it. I am willing to emulate the Tank Man from Tienaman Square, are you?

Or perhaps we should look to the Montgomery boycott of 1955 as our inspiration. Let us refuse to ride the bus at all, and let the Democratic Party see that they cannot function without our time, money and network of friends and associates.

[Lerkfish]

12. I so tire of the broad brush

since I'm a rank and file democrat and I've ALWAYS supported GLBT rights, how do I fit in your broad brush?

the correct answer is I don't.


I understand your frustration, but striking out at every democrat is not right, either.

[sui generis]

13. there were a lot paragraphs

I think you missed a few. ;)

[Lerkfish]

26. LOL! touche

:)

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. Most Democrats do not support my rights

Why, pray tell, have state parties around the country been so reluctant to mention GLBT rights in state platforms? Why did the 2008 national platform STRIP OUT support of GLBT rights that had been in the 2004 and 2000 national platforms? If the rank-and-file did actually support my rights, wouldn't there be some evidence of this somewhere, in the party's official policy statements?

In any group, there are exceptions who do not fit the norm. Like it or not, the norm for Democrats is that they will not support GLBT rights.

[Lerkfish]

27. like I said, I understand your frustration.

I think where there is some confusion is you used the term "rank and file" which means individual people, but your examples are the actions and platforms of the party.
I agree that the party falls way short in GLBT rights and also other areas.

[TechBear_Seattle]

28. I am using "rank-and-file" correctly to mean "typical" members individually and collectively

My point is that the "typical" Democrat does not consider human rights for gay people to be worth any political effort. Therefore, the Democratic leadership does not consider us to be worth any political effort. Therefore, my growing conviction that we need to either force the party to pay attention to us, or boycott it completely.

[Lerkfish]

31. well, then I cannot add anything further to your discussion.

[mitchtv]

52. Democrats have plainly excluded us

I am going to be very careful where I spend my money.Thankfully I am in a mixed area so I can avoid all straght/minority shopping If possible I will only buy gay. The Blacks have made us their enemy as have the latinos. and they control the party now.And the Party certainly won't miss the palty 3-4 hundred dollars they got from us this year, Let stratey help himself

[Zuiderelle]

4. Glad to join you. K&R

Nicely written.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. A/As are less than 6% of the vote in CA

Why are you blaming them instead of all the old people who voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8? There are a lot more of them and many of them also voted for Obama.

[sui generis]

7. I quite liberally assigned blame everywhere

but on that topic 67 percent of black voters voted for Prop 8. I'm assuming, possibly correctly, that a good number of those voters also voted for Obama. I was talking about the dissonance, not the numbers.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. So did 69% of Catholics. Barack won the Catholic vote in CA.

And you are NOT assigning guilt liberally. You specifically singled out black people.

[sui generis]

10. while honoring Rosa Parks /nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. Well isn't that special. Honoring Rosa Parks.

I'll bet some of your best friends are black too. :eyes:

[sui generis]

17. some of my family, in fact

go away.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Big fucking deal

So are you going to show your OP to those members of your family? Are you going to tell them they shouldn't be celebrating Obama's election because too many people who share the same skin color as they do voted for Prop 8? I'm sure you are. :eyes:

[sui generis]

25. you're a lone cat burglar here.

reading is fundamental. You are not persecuted. My family posts here too. Go roll your eyes at someone who cares. This is NOT about YOU.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. It's obvious that yes votes tracked more with religion than anything else

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/MNH413UTUS.DTL

So when are you going to start pointing the finger at Catholics, Mormons, and people who attend church once a week?

[sui generis]

11. you miss the point and you're trying to hijack

although I'll concede that I could have made this much longer. I was responding to Obama supporters and the current news cycle detailing this as a historic moment for a BLACK man to be in office, while the people we stood shoulder to shoulder with in some cases also voted against US.

If you want to write an essay about statistics, please do so. It's not relevant here.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. It IS an historic moment for African Americans..

Yes, you have every right to be angry over Prop 8. But black people are not the reason it passed and they have every right to celebrate the election of Barack Obama.

Then again, you could see this as a call for the LGBT community to do a better job of outreach in the black community. http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/ballot_initiatives_provide_a_wake_up_call_to_the_lgbt_community_about_race/

[sui generis]

24. thus my point about marching in unity in Selma

I understand what you are saying. But this is not about Obama. This is about Proposition 8.

[Duncan Grant]

34. A core constituency of the Democratic party voted 70% in favor to remove rights from gays.

No matter what the impact on Prop. 8, it's a staggering slap of reality for the gay allies of African-Americans.

edit: subject line

[Chovexani]

49. CB? Let's talk for a minute.

Yes, I am "African-American" (a term I fucking hate, I am BLACK). And I'm going to have to respectfully call you on some stuff. First of all Obama's election is not an historic moment for "African-Americans". It is an historic moment for Americans. Just as black history is not black history, it is American history. Our lives and stories, our struggles and triumphs, are part of the fabric of this nation and to paint it as just a "black thing" is to demean and minimize the import of what took place on Tuesday. As a black person, I rejoice that a person of color has finally risen to the highest position in the land. As a lesbian-identified bisexual and a woman, it wounds me deeply that he benefited from sexism and homophobia in order to get that position. And it wounds me more than you could ever know that on a day that should be one of triumph and celebration for me and mine, I was reminded once again just how many people despise and hate me, despite the fact that I swallowed my personal pride and issues to work towards victory. That by the way is not referring to black folk, that is referring to this Democratic Party I have been a member of since the day I turned 18.

There is a strong element in the black community that collectively needs to get the fuck over itself. Yes, the LGBT community needs to do more outreach, I agree with that 100%. I agree that black LGBTs have not done enough to be visible, that is something we need to work on. I have continually been calling my white LGBT brothers and sisters on racist attitudes and assumptions since I came out as bisexual twelve years ago. I have posted more than once on this subject, all over this damn board, just search for them. With that I am totally with you and have tried to help facilitate that.

But you know something? We can't do this alone. You should know that back in the day, it took blacks to stand up for ourselves, but we could not have accomplished what we did back then without the help of people outside the community who possessed the empathy, the courage and integrity to stand with us. We could not change hearts and minds by ourselves. And that is doubly true of the LGBT community. Fuck, there's just not enough of us to change every homophobe's mind by ourselves.

Are you an ally to us? Are you willing to stand with us? It's real simple for someone who is not a part of our community to call us out and challenge us. That's fine. But I'm calling you out right back. This is not a game of us vs. them. This is not a game of blacks vs. "the gays". Blacks ARE "the gays. We are in your churches, mosques, your barbershops, your beauty shops, your corner stores and your families.

When some old biddie starts going on about the "sissy boy" do you speak up? Or do you laugh nervously and go with the crowd? When you hear a young brother go on about "faggots" do you say anything? If not you are part of the problem. You may not have agreed with Prop 8, you may even have voted against it if you lived in Cali, but with that inaction, you helped it pass.

No, black folks are NOT responsible for Prop 8 passing. No matter how you crunch the numbers, even if every last one of us had stayed home, it still would have passed. The Yes on Hate campaign was largely orchestrated and funded by the Mormon church and various other outside agitators. However, that does not change the very stark fact that way too many fucking people in the black community voted out of fear and xenophobia to deny their own sons and daughters basic civil rights. Far too many black people buy into the bullshit that gayness is a "white thing", a lie from the devil to break up our already fragile families. The fear and the superstition has to end. The homophobes in the black community need to realize that gayness is no more a sin than being left-handed or having nappy hair. That the God they believe so fervently in doesn't make mistakes and doesn't do things in error, according to the same damn book they cling to.

LGBT people are not hurting our community or breaking up families, or somehow taking away hard won rights, but the fear and hatred is. It is hurting LGBT people of all colors, but particularly their own children, their sisters and brothers. This campaign for equality is not meant to demean or destroy anyone's way of life. Quite the contrary, it's meant to ensure that we can live our lives in peace like everyone else. We're a very diverse group and all of us have our own definitions of what that means and our own points of view, but ultimately we all want the same things that straight people do. We want to be able to be true to ourselves. We want to make lives with our partners. Some of us want to raise families. Some of us just want to party all the time. Some of us are nice and some of us are assholes. Newsflash, it's really not that different than straight people. And black homophobes need to realize that just like every other shade of homophobe. We can't convince them of that by ourselves, again, we need allies. And if all you want to do is be defensive and call people out and not try to understand where our anger is coming from, I suggest you head back to GD because this is not the place for you. But if you sincerely want to stand with us, you are more than welcome. We could use your help.

[Ellen Forradalom]

51. This post is a MUST READ.

It sorts out the various tangled issues neatly.

I am sorry I can't recommend this specific post.

You are one of the most expressive people here.

[Chovexani]

60. Thanks Ellen.

That means a lot coming from one of my favorite DUers. :hug:

[Ellen Forradalom]

64. MUST-READ #2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=87931&mesg_id=87965

[sui generis]

72. see my clarification post near thread-end

I am hearing that the message I intended was lost in misinterpretation. My bad - and certainly not intended that way.

I wanted a relevant lead-in for comparing discrimination based on skin color to discriminating against someone for something you have to admit, accuse someone of, and can neither prove nor disprove. That was my main point.

The fact that gays can't get married is as absurd as catholics not having the right to marry. But somehow we never got off the fact that I pointed out that many black people who voted against us also voted for Obama.

I don't know what or how anyone could miss that I said many many people voted FOR us, or that I was addressing all Americans who were bigots, and not just Democrats with double standards.

C'est la vie, I guess. My theory is, if there is a question all one has to do is ask the OP.

[tekisui]

59. Thank you so much for that post.

I stand with you. I will march with you. I will boycott with you.

It is my hope that we can find the allies to end this discrimination. That was a wonderful post, thank you again.

[Chovexani]

61. Thank YOU

I don't know if I can speak for anyone else but when i was really at my lowest point yesterday, what was holding me up was reading all the support from the straight allies who post here. It helped me remember that not everyone is crazy and not everyone hates us.

Thank you for standing with us. :hug:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

62. Chovexani, you are absolutely spot-on 100% correct in everything you say

What I object to is crap like "I was appalled that so many who voted for Prop 8 were black" and "we stood by you in the Selma marches" in the OP. It comes off as condescending and perpetuates the false notion that LGBT = white.

[Psyop Samurai]

63. Quite simply, one of the best posts I have ever read at DU...

Thank you.

:hug:

[mitchtv]

56. Right, they had nothing to do with it

they have declared me the enemy and voted 70% to make me a second class citizen

[MNBrewer]

69. It's an historic moment for all of us.

[Prism]

14. The problem is we're the world's most convenient protesters

While thinking about your post, I began to wonder why we're such a docile movement. Think about our marches. They generally occur during pride days, the police are informed in advance, roads are closed, and there's a merry little party. Those who don't share our convictions or concerns are, at worst, cost a few extra minutes of commuting time. Our events and fund-raisers and gatherings are often reduced to glorified cocktail parties. They're, well, fun.

I'm sorry, but the fight for equality isn't fun. It's hard work. It's inconvenient. It's not a party.

Why not impromptu marches? Sit ins. Why not make ourselves terrific pains in the ass?

Why are we so absent unless there are drinks and music?

I'm not old enough to really remember ACT-UP. In reading the history, I occasionally see things that I thought went too far. But I think they might've had the right idea. I think the possibility of taking a page out of their book and applying it to this moment in our country's history is an idea that is conspicuously absent from the leadership of our movement.

Where is our MLK, damnit?

[sui generis]

22. I completely agree, and one step further.

I put down my partner as married on insurance, beneficiary, and everywhere it is financially convenient to do so. I send a letter to the IRS every time I pay taxes stating that I am married, and but fortunately they get less money from me this way.

I have gotten into a scuffle with INS at the Vancouver airport when they told me my partner could not step forward with me because we weren't married. I missed the flight, no big deal, and they had to listen to my lip the entire time they were "questioning" me. It is not illegal to claim that you are married. You just can't bring a lawsuit against anyone for damages if they don't agree, today. That will change.

Mostly you have to be tougher than the assholes who think you shouldn't be married and get in their face in every place that "being married" counts.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Re INS i interesting

My spouse and I always go through customs and immigration together - and have never been challenged (either by the US or any other country). In fact, before we were legally married and had one item which was above the duty free import limit for one person (so we couldn't just shift goods from one to the other) the customs official confirmed that we considered ourselves married and expressly told us to write our declaration as a family.

[rubberducky]

15. Baby steps, my friend, baby steps.

I am a white straight OLD grammy, I`m holding your hand in the front of the bus! Please don`t be discouraged, we will overcome. We MUST all be equal. The day will come, but it will be a huge upheaval of convictions that have been held for decades. Obama`s election was such a huge blow to the far- right wing people, but they will adjust, because they don`t have a choice. The first chink in the right wing armor has been pierced and it took a historical mandate to do that. We`re coming to give ALL people their civil rights. Have faith that we are there with you in spirit, this is the next wall to be broken down!!

[Ms. Toad]

37. We have been doing baby steps for years.

27 years ago, I taught in an inner city high school as a (mostly) openly gay teacher. (The faculty knew, some of the students knew, and I did not deliberately hide from anyone.)

22 years ago, I asked my faith community to take my (then) 5 year old marriage under its care and labored with them for 8 years before our marriage was taken under its care 14 years ago.

20 years ago, I asked my faith community to sit with me while my spouse and I wrestled with whether or not to have children.

13 years ago, our daughter started school in our very conservative lily white community as a child with openly gay parents. This past weekend, I put stage make-up on the son of a member of the community who voted against my marriage in 2004 while my spouse sold tickets and candy for the drama club production for the 4th year in a row even though our daughter has now graduated (#1 in her class) and is attending college. The member of the community greeted me at my polling place on Tuesday with a hug, clearly recognizing me as the Kerry supporter who worked the polls 4 years ago, as a fellow parent who supported his son's dramatic endeavors, and as one of Feli's two moms (Feli is my daughter's mostly inactive DU handle).

13 years ago, I started graduate school as an openly gay student - against the advice of anyone who had my ear because the professors would know whose paper they were grading and my grades would suffer. I can say, without a doubt, they did not.

10 years ago my spouse and I brought (and lost) lost the only appellate case in our state on second parent adoption.

3 years ago, we traveled to Canada to obtain legal recognition of our (then) 24 year marriage.

I'm just one person - who's been taking baby steps for nearly three decades - and who's been sitting in the front of the bus for years. There are many more as active, or more so than I have been - and I am tired of baby steps.

[mitchtv]

53. Oh pleas , I'm probably older that you

"We" intend to do NOTHING for LGBT. THE faith is dead only hate remains here

[nichomachus]

19. I don't lay the blame so much on the voters

as on the people who whipped them up with fear, lies, and distortions.

The devil's work here was done in the churches. Most people -- of whatever race -- who go to church are good people trying to do the right thing. They look to their spiritual leaders to help them, inform them, and give them good advice. Maybe they put too much trust in those leaders, but the leaders hold themselves out as having "the truth."

And because the leaders seek the trust of their followers, once the followers give that trust, the leaders assume an overwhelming obligation to be truthful.

In this case, they were not. They lied. They lied blatantly. They purposely deceived their followers. They betrayed the trust they were given.

That is inexcusable.

I'm not absolving the voters for not getting better information, but for many of them, they went to the best place they knew and they were deceived by people who should have known better.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

36. A Lot Of The Blame For This CAN Be Laid....

at the feet of the churches. They were the main ones to whip up their followers into a frenzy to vote "yes" on 8". It is time to bring the churches to heel and to make it clear that if they do this crap, they lose their tax-free status. They will have to pay taxes like the rest of us. It is LONG PAST time to get this done. They are allowed to spend the millions they take in to oppress part of the population--this has got to be dealt with.

Without these bastards whipping up fear and hatred of LGBT people and they should be held accountable.

[mitchtv]

54. Well I blame the voters

Stupid fucking idiots EVERY LAST ONE

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. You can have my seat.

I've taken that seat for granted for far too long.

[bluedawg12]

29. This is about civil rights - one of the most basic rights- marriage

we will stand up for ourselves as gays, we will fight united and now that the historic battle for the top of the ticket is over and we fought shoulder to shoulder with our straight brothers and sisters, we need your support from here on out.

We will not go to the back of the bus, the line, the "to do list"... we ask all Democrtas to come forward now and be united with us, on these issues of civil rights.

[mitchtv]

55. Ha, When do I start holding my breath?

You've heard the last of gay rights from the DP

[AllyCat]

30. I stand with you!

My husband will stand firm too. We are both so sorry this has happened. We watched last election as WI did the same thing as AZ,FL and CA. Despite our efforts to defeat it, WI decided to deny rights to people too.

[sui generis]

40. civil disobedience: if my marriage can be singled out

I want the people who are against it to be singled out.

I think we should use Fred Phelps' tactics against them. I want those people "outed" at work, faxes sent to them, to their coworkers. I want their pictures, addresses and family details listed on the internet, just like the abortion murder list, except of course, unlike them we're not the killing kind.

I'll host the damn site. I want every possible exposure those people can have made to the rest of the world, and most importantly, I would like to do some simple numeric analyses of their voting, church, and other social affiliations. If they have blogs, medical records, pornographic photos, whatever, I want a dossier on every son of a bitch who signed that petition open and searchable. Kids names. Pets names, pet names for their boobs and nads, phone numbers, and gossip. I'd like candid photos of them, just as if they were celebrities, you know, beating their wives, cutting people off in traffic, trying the beat the gay out of their kids.

I think the world should see their ugly little faces. Right now, their efforts go unrewarded because we're still married, and now we're just fucking pissed off.

We should reward them. I think every time they apply for a job, their names should come up on "The Bigot List" when googled. Even if their employers agree with them, it's a liability to have someone you can google with a negative association. We should point these out wherever possible.

Is that civil disobedience? Well, I'll do the website in the Bahamas then and pass out the link.

If they want war, I will fucking give them war, or at the very least make them choose silence over aggression next time. Fewer petition signatures, fewer petitions.

Civil Disobedience Part II:

Lash back and make it hurt. If you have discretionary authority over hiring, loan approval, lease approval, work promotion, vacation approval, or any blacklist you can think of, put these people on it, with prejudice.

Don't sell them products or services, fire them if they work for you, destroy them socially and financially if you can do so without breaking any laws. Let's make their petty little lives as important and miserable as they would like ours to be, and take credit for it as a free information and personal character evaluation service.

**********************
good thing I'm not really pissed off yet, just hopped up on M&M's, because I've got a bottomless well of ideas and zero fear. Let's wait and see how the CA lawsuits turn out. :evilgrin:

[Duncan Grant]

47. I'm going to ally myself with you. Need any help?

:hi:

[Jamastiene]

50. I wish EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US had that kind of FIGHTING SPIRIT!

I like your spunk, your fighting spirit. What we need more than anything right now is to empower ourselves and FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.

[mitchtv]

57. yes,yes, and yes

It is war

[Maat]

41. I'm a white, straight ol' lady too (turning 50 this November).

I'm a proud PFLAGer.

I will proudly sit with you in the FRONT of the bus. I will make sure they honor your rights and leave you alone.

[sui generis]

42. hugs, sister!

I know this fight is as much for the people who support us, and equality, as it is directly for us.

thank you my friend!

[Maat]

45. And, thank you!

I'm very happy that we are going to work together to right this wrong.

I, a Californian, am sorry that there were SO many people around to vote for it.

What did I notice? I noticed a whole lot of out-of-state money coming in - from the likes of Dobson and his followers and the Mormons.

They made really outrageous ads that contained outright lies. They even used kids in that one ad whose parents were anti-8, without those parents' permission! They scared the heck out of some of the seniors around here (not that they were too-together beforehand).

It was very difficult to fight the ignorance.

We are having a protest tomorrow night (peaceful, of course).

[Jamastiene]

48. It is time to raise some Hell.

We get beaten, bashed, discriminated against, hated, blamed for everything bad that ever happens, and told to STFU anyhow. Keyword there people: ANYHOW

Instead of taking it without a fight, let's fight tooth and nail. We get treated like shit ANYHOW. There is ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE to not RAISE HELL.

We should pick a date in the near future and start campaigning to raise awareness of this movement now.

ALL OF US should go apply for marriage licenses no matter what state we live in. Those of us who are not in relationships, we should team up with other singles for the sole purpose of this movement to make the most solid impact.

We tie up the courts in every single solitary state for discrimination if anyone denies our marriage license. Those who hate us hate it when we do that most of all. I say we do it enough to bog down the system and make their lives a living hell.

If we get thrown in jail for demanding our rights, our one phone call should be ONLY to someone else involved in this same movement. The reason for that is to shoot the proverbial flare gun in the air so the media and protesters can flock to that jail cell and publicize the hell out of the discrimination and injustice.

We should NEVER got to any protest or function for ourselves without cameras, and lots of them EVER. When they beat us, we film it and sue the police department for brutality. I wish we could start a website to post cop beating videos organized by state and publicize it to high heaven.

This suggestion might not be ok with everyone, but for those of us not completely against it, we should start gay churches everywhere we can. If we have to meet up online only to discuss strategy and call it church, fine.

That is all they are using a lot of churches for now anyhow; political meetings. They call these buildings all over the USA churches, but many many of those buildings are nothing more than places for them to discuss strategy to keep us down.

We can come up with names for our churches and go through the same process to get TAX EXEMPT STATUS. Why should we have to pay taxes while those who hate us the MOST never have to pay taxes? The OUTSPEND US because we are too busy paying precious dollars in taxes while they rake in the dough tax free. It's wrong. We take our rights back and openly, flagrantly use tax exempt status just like they do.

Those are some ideas. I don't know how many of them might actually be popular enough to work, but we need to do something radical right now that is still within the law.

[Chulanowa]

65. I'll happily stand so you can have a seat

And I'm sure sitting at the front of the bus will feel a hell of a lot better than being thrown under it again - no matter the shit you may catch from that seat.

[newtothegame]

66. Sorry, your rights got pushed to the bottom..

Problem is so many DU'ers are so self-loathing over slavery a century and half ago that an AA being elected president in the face of no physical barriers is more important than ACTUAL PHYSICAL BARRIERS being put up against GLBT folks more and more EVERY DAY.

ed for sp

[NMMNG]

67. You say you want a revolution?

Let's bring it on.

San Jose: Grieve, talk, plan, kvetch, Sunday, 11/9
Some Advice for Anyone Planning to Protest Outside Mormon Temples
Lake Forest: Saddleback Church Proposition 8 Protest, Sunday, November 9

Much more, frequently updated.

[Jamastiene]

68. Aaaaaaahhhhh!!!

:hug:

[NMMNG]

70. Hey grrrl!

:bounce:

[sui generis]

71. OKAY THEN - a clarification

I wanted to reiterate in the OP when I used figurative "you" it was global "you", and in particular anybody who voted FOR OBAMA and AGAINST US, not the black community in general.

My apologies for not being more clear or for not finding a stronger segue than "my fellow Americans",

We have been told over and over that we aren't the same kind of American, or as good as any other American ***by our fellow Americans***. We've been told that we're a danger to morale in the military while we are dying just as dead for our country, and coming home in covered boxes hidden from the press to unpublished funerals, to protect our living families and loved ones. We are sewing up your drunk kids in the emergency rooms without checking their sexual orientation, religious affiliation or skin color. We are giving jobs to your brothers and sisters and parents and kids based on their ability, not their political or religious or personal beliefs, breaking up your domestic quarrels (isn't that rich), patrolling your neighborhoods, giving to your charities and standing up for you whenever and wherever your civil rights are threatened, without regard to what you believe yourself to be, other than American.