I wish the Democrats were as loyal to us as we are to them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

That is really all i feel this morning.

This should have been MY morning too. My reason to celebrate as well. My reason to feel proud of my country.

Instead I can barely keep from crying at my desk.

That is a shame.

[Not Me]

1. LP, I know exactly how you feel.

I took today off...I don't even want to go into work, though it is almost entirely liberal, Obama supporters.
I can't help but feel that we have once again been taken.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. i feel like straight people are wondering why i am sad.

and i wonder how they are ok with this level of bigotry and hatred

not just california but florida, arkansas and arizona.

[nosillies]

3. This straight person fought so hard to defeat Act 1 in Arkansas

All recent polling showed we could easily defeat this horrible act. I thought for once the stupid people here weren't going to be so stupid. I was wrong. I don't understand what happened here and everywhere else.

[Jamastiene]

57. We should never underestimate just how hateful people can be.

Each time we do, they go lower. I thank you for fighting alongside us and being supportive to us when we are down also. A lot of people don't understand how much that support, after the fact, means to us. :hug:

[Not Me]

4. As I stated elsewhere, in FL, it's game over.

FL has a 60% requirement to pass a constitutional amendment. This one got 62%.
It will be decades before fair minded people can reach that hurdle to overturn it.
The only hope is that one day, the US Supreme Court will make a ruling.

[tavalon]

61. We're not okay with it at all

If I had been able to vote in California, I would have voted no on 8. As is, I sent money. I know a lot of straight people here did. I hate that this was even considered, much less that it passed.

My state didn't even consider the issue. We took on right to death with dignity and we decided that Oregon had it right. Whether gays should also have this wasn't even discussed.

[Ellen Forradalom]

62. I am not okay with it

I am furious.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. We have absolutely no choice but to be loyal

I mean, who else is there? It is like having to decide between being beaten to death, and being beaten almost to death.

It would be really, really nice to have a political party that doesn't want to beat us at all.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. yup,. or a populace who believed in equal rights.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. Same thing n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

71. Now is the time. Or never.

We were loyal, where was our defense? ...not from groups who had vested interests; but really, how much of a fierce defense and support did we get from the Democratic Committee, so flush with cash?


We must be loyal? To people who are disloyal to us? NOW?

I think not.


I've always worked for the Democratic Party, and I worked my butt off working to get Obama/Biden elected
all the while knowing it was for a team who did not respect me very much, if at all.

So, Mission Accomplished. I've done my part, as have many other LGBT's, consistently for many, many years and now I want my equal rights
--as if that's so much to ask.

I've had enough of the disrespect. I've had enough with the lack of support from those we support, our support which they take for granted. I've had enough of regression, as more of our skimpy rights are taken away; albeit with some faint, dirt cheap 'protest' from some Dem's but with precious little Action!
Was it because of their lack of respect and support that we lost so much ground? Is it just coincidence that Obama and Biden dissed us, disparaged us, and then the results came in of all these state's propositions? I don't know for sure, but I DO know people look to their leaders, and it's obvious many Democrats voted for these propositions!

In any event, they sure didn't help us and NOW look where we are.


I for one have had it. I will wait no more, it's time to draw the line in the sand. This is it.
It is for me at least. We must now stand up and insist upon our equal rights, all the way to the Supreme Court; and we must REFUSE this 'State's rights' bullshit: either it's discrimination or it isn't, states CANNOT 'legislate' discrimination!
FUCK what 'middle' or 'values voting America', i.e. Bigots, have to say. We deserve the full and open support of every branch of government, we must demand it. Or else.

As the African-Americans did in their battle for equality, we continue to get the brush off. 'Wait, just wait -- now is not the time'.
Fine. We waited, and long drank gall. We've now got a Democrat, an historic pick, no less, as the next POTUS, we have a majority in both houses; if now is not the time, when is?
If Dr. Martin Luther King waited for consensus among the populace for equal rights for African-Americans, they'd still be waiting and Obama would not be president.
It just wouldn't have happened!

As did those at Stonewall, so should we now stand up, all of us, and demand our equal rights. We are human beings, we are American citizens who aren't hurting anyone: why do we not deserve the same rights as any other citizen?
At this point I don't even care if they call it "Marriage" or not -- just give me the equal rights as any other heterosexual married couple. The lexicon can be righted in the future.
As I see it, we have two choices: One, we can change it from within and hold them accountable.
If that fails, we join and strengthen a group who actually believe in our righteous, rightful cause.
We are in every single demographic of race, group & ideology (so we don't get the Log Cabin Repukes, no big loss) and the vast majority of us vote Democratic. We compose from 7 to 10 percent (or more) of the total population, and that's a huge voting bloc. What are their chances of success if they lose us? I'd like to see how well they do without our vote...
It's now time to call in our debt, or else they must face the real cost of what they have tacitly or verbally (Yep I'm looking at you, Pres & VP elects)-- endorsed.

This should be debated throughout the LGBT community, IMHO. Hopefully now we can all --we "queers" :eyes:-- come to a consensus, flex our considerable muscle and stop being a doormat even for our own political party.


Note:
I waited a couple days to write this; my thoughts and feelings were spastic and tumbling everywhere yet what the message I want to put forward is still disjointed, ungrammatical and unclear in its presentation so it's not going to get better any time soon. If anyone agrees with what this says and could put it down more clearly, concisely and elegantly; please do.

[xchrom]

7. recommend

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

9. sigh.

i feel the exact same way.

:hug:

[bluedawg12]

10. If the party does not "appear" loyal to us

maybe we haven't made our case to the party effectively?

Too many people think that this is just gays looking to pay a game, to play married, that there is nothing at stake in our lives.

Not only have they passed anti gay marriage laws, but, didn't I read that some passed anti gay adoption laws?

We are not making the case effectively. We must start.

[Jamastiene]

59. Yes, Florida passed an anti gay adoption law.

[yardwork]

73. Arkansas made it illegal for single people to adopt, and since gay people can't get married in AR...

well, you see.

[jonnyblitz]

11. yup.

[smoogatz]

12. If I could, I'd apologize for straight people everywhere.

I'm embarrassed, I have to say. This is a real stain on what should be a day of unmitigated celebration.

[keepCAblue]

13. The CA dems who voted for prop 8 cost us our rights. Period

Had Dems in CA voted in solidarity, prop 8 would have failed.

The people of CA, many Dems among them, have put the rights and concerns of chickens and pigs above that of gays and lesbians. Prop 2, protection for farm animals, passed overwhelmingly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. exactly my point.

[closeupready]

16. Correct, yes.

And it's not the first time CA has betrayed its gay and lesbian sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. Shame on all those who voted for it.

[bluedawg12]

21. Of course they did, and I can even explain it (probably)

as theofascist fear mongering.

but, that's because we didn't get the message out.

What were we doing? Perhaps putting all of our attention and money and time into getting president Obama elected.

The rw theofascists snuck this in during a major election.

[TechBear_Seattle]

35. We were putting all of our attention and money and time into getting president Obama elected because

Efforts to educate people about bigotry was universally met with "Shut up about wedge issues; we have an election to win."

[TechBear_Seattle]

33. Crimeny, and I thought I was bitter before

I never thought to check other propositions. Prop 2 passed while prop 8 failed? That is very low.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

65. Lets Us Know...

where we stand in the scheme of things.:sarcasm: Bastards.

[closeupready]

15. I'm not that disappointed, and I say that only because

I knew that it would pass, though I'd hoped it wouldn't, of course. And I knew it would pass because California has disappointed gays and lesbians on many other occasions. There has ALWAYS been a popular perception that California is so progressive and liberal (I don't know if that's because it's sunny there all the time or because it's such a wealthy state), but that is just not the reality, and never really has been.

You must feel how I felt back in the 80's when I was in college, and I had just come out of the closet, and the Texas sodomy laws were upheld by the Supreme Court (forget the name of the case at the moment). I'll never forget how I felt in the days after that ruling, it was that big of a deal to me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. sometimes its nice for me to hear from older gay du'ers

to put my pain in perspective of what they have witnessed

i thank you

(also please note, i said older, not old :P)

[thrift_store_angel]

18. Except that all we ever hear from them...

is that nothing ever changes, and that we will always end up getting screwed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. not really. the texas law he is referring to was eventually struck down

[The Doctor.]

32. No thanks to Scalia.

Thanks for reminding me of one of the BEST displays of rationality ever. When Eric Berndt asked Scalia if he sodomized his wife... pure gold!

[closeupready]

31. My point was that eventually, that ruling was overturned by the very court that issued it originally

it took time, but real change eventually happened, and nowadays, the very notion that sodomy could be outlawed probably seems medieval to a lot of younger people, both gay and straight, since I'd imagine a lot more members of both groups are engaging in sodomy with their significant others, and the idea that it could be declared illegal would get a :wtf: reaction.

[closeupready]

30. "getting" old, but not old yet.

:D

[jonnyblitz]

38. some of the nastiest homophobic crap/bashing I had ever

witnessed was in CA during various times of my life when I lived there while in the navy and when i got out. At various times I lived in San Diego, LA, and San Francisco. I used to see neo-nazi skinheads on Haight ST in SF quite often.:shrug:

[keepCAblue]

22. yes but...this is the first time rights have been TAKEN away

If Prop 8 had been a ballot initiative to take away the fundamental civil rights of another minority, blacks for example, and it had passed, there would be rioting in the streets today and civil rights leaders across the country, the ACLU, etc. would all be issuing statements of condemnation with lawsuits flying right and left to challenge such an egregious act of "tyranny of the majority."

Yet, I've received nothing from Equality California, HRC, ACLU....nothing in the way of emails, press releases, televised statements. There are no protests in the street. Not even signs of protest nailed to houses (except perhaps my own?). I'm outraged and infuriated and want to DO SOMETHING, but what? Where are OUR community leaders and allies in office in this hour of our despair?

[Zuiderelle]

28. This is a good point. Where is the HRC? I get emails all the time from Planned Parenthood

when there are outrageous issues we need to be aware of. Yet, I'm a monthly contributor to HRC and I get nothing from them today? NOTHING? WTF.

I don't think they need my money anymore. I think I need to be giving it to an organization that will actually fight for us.

And Obama needs to take a stand on this as well. Right now.

[cboy4]

46. I'm not happy with how the HRC "helped" with this cause,

and they are hearing it from me.

[bluedawg12]

24. Well, lowered expecations are never disappointed.

But we can't go on like that.

[Zuiderelle]

26. You and I must be about the same age. I had a bad feeling it would pass too.

But I still held out hope and am still terribly disappointed. It's like... yeah, I know that many people hate us, but I guess I just didn't know how many would go out of their way to show how much they do. People who are electing a black President, and at the same time voting against the same principle of civil equality that got him to that position. It confounds me and disappoints me deeply.

[closeupready]

34. I know, me, too.

:(

[blueraven95]

20. I would like to apologize for all those bigoted straight people

I am so ashamed of them...I can't find the words to express it.


As I said in another thread on this subject:
Jews have a saying that when one of us is not free, then we are all enslaved. I am feeling the truth in these words today.

[Zhade]

58. Thank you.

NT!

[dbackjon]

23. I am mad beyond belief.

[The Doctor.]

25. It's just SO stupid!

I just can't wrap my head around whatever the fuck it is that's wrong with these people. Where does anyone get off telling other people who they are and are not allowed to marry?!?

It's one of my favorite topics to twist the homophobe's heads;

"So why are you against same sex adults getting married?"

"Because it will ruin marriage."

"How?"

"Because marriage is between a man and a woman."

"Right, but I asked how marriage will be ruined."

"I told you, that's not marriage."

"So your marriage would fail?"

"No"

"How would your marriage be ruined?"

"It wouldn't."

"Then whose marriage would it harm?"

"I don't know."

"So it will only hurt your concept of marriage, right?"

"No, everyone's."

"Ok, so explain to me who gets hurt."

"Marriage gets hurt."

"Whose marriage?"

"Just marriage."

"But it doesn't hurt anyone."

"It hurts marriage."

"How?"

"Because marriage is between a man and a woman."

"Except when it's between two men or two women... that's still marriage and no one gets hurt."

"No, it's not marriage."

"So you want people to be unable to marry who they love because it hurts a concept?"

"...."

"You don't mind that you're consigning these people to suffer for something that hurts no one?"

"It hurts marriage!"

"But it doesn't hurt people at all, right?"

"Yes it does."

"How?"

"By hurting marriage."

"How does that hurt people?"

"Because people need marriage."

"But only the people that you've deemed worthy."

... usually they get pissed off by this point and, in the last similar conversation, they took the easy way out with "Let's just agree to disagree."

"But all you've proven here is that ss marriage harms no one. You seem to disagree with a reality you've confirmed."


One idiot actually said that it 'gives children the wrong idea'.

"What 'wrong idea'?"

"That they can choose who they get to marry."

"So people shouldn't be able to choose who they get to marry?"

... and then I get them into acknowledging (unknowingly) that they really do see gays as second-class citizens.... after a maze of 'when did you choose' and 'we're talking legal adults here, not box turtles'.


It's a hobby of mine to show people how foolish some of their concepts are.



I'm soo sorry lioness. I thought that California wouldn't possibly go that way. What we can work for is to continue to bring suit until it makes its way to the SCOTUS. No matter what, one day this stupid prohibition will end.

[KitchenWitch]

27. FWIW, I am crying too.

I will continue to stand and be counted. We will regroup and defeat the hatred.

[Marrah_G]

29. I'm sorry our party let you all down.

let us all down.

Fear and ignorance won.

[TechBear_Seattle]

37. It is definitely not hte first time the Dems have betrayed us

And I have no illusions that it will be the last. So don't worry about it; we've become inured to being despised by Democrats.

[kdpeters]

36. Democrats ARE as loyal to us as we are to them.

That's somewhere around 75-80%. It doesn't make sense for Democrats to vote against gays, but about 20% of us do. It makes no more sense for gays to vote Republican, but about 20% of us do so anyhow. It does indeed go both ways.

[keepCAblue]

39. Your opinion is definitely in the minority on this issue...

...how's it feel to be a minority who's opinion very few either care about or acknowledge?

Welcome to our world.

[kdpeters]

50. Just struggling to come up with some perspective, that's all

I'm just trying to say that fellow DUers can no more be held accountable for that 30% of Democrats that voted against us than you or I would be willing to take responsibility for that 20-25% of log cabin types that reliably vote Republican and voted for Bush twice. You and I are going through the same emotions, I promise you. Even though I live in Georgia where there wouldn't be any chance to defeat such a measure, my heart is with California that was once my home for twelve years.

[Cherchez la Femme]

75. Where do you get your statistics from?

"20-25% of log cabin types that reliably vote Republican and voted for Bush twice"

What does that mean? 20-25% of all of the LGBT population or 20-25% of Log Cabin Republicans? MOST Log Cabin Republicans would vote Republican, otherwise why belong to that group? Or are you calling ALL LGBT who trend more conservative Log Cabin republicans, or even registered Republicans?

And where do you get you stats that 20-25% of the LGBT population are Republican? From the many I know, that is a huge exaggeration.
Kindly quote your sources.

[Duncan Grant]

69. I don't support gay Republicans and I won't support Democrats who voted against me.

There are 2 core constituencies of the Democratic party who will no longer receive my support.

[hippywife]

40. Please take heart.

There are many of us who stand with you and still hold out hope that you will also have your day.

I live in Oklahoma so this was a very bittersweet election result for us. But what we realize is that last night we came closer than ever to changing things. It's going to take working on all of the issues we hold dear from election to election, not just when one is pending.

We've got your back and we're trying, really we are. It's just going to take every last one of us to put pressure where it needs to be every day, not just when people are looking.

:hug:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. ...

:hug:

[unpossibles]

42. K&R! Don't despair. If Ohio and Indiana can turn blue, we can convince America what this is really

about.

:hug:

[IndianaJones]

43. I completely agree with you. nt.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. You aren't alone.

Not at all.

Just know that there are those of us who do, and always will support your right to be treated as equal.

Marriage to me is defined as 2 people, in love, committed. I don't give a crap what paranoid idiots vote into the Constitutions of the states of this nation.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. thanks mrs g.

[The Traveler]

47. This straight Democrat is NOT willing to let this go

This is a matter human rights ... and I am not willing to back down on this. Securing gay rights must become a priority, speedily. Obama's election makes further progress on these matters more likely. Let's make our leadership come through on this!

[cboy4]

48. I can't say it any better.

;(

[Tektonik]

49. Ugh

That's all I feel right now.

[mzmolly]

51. What about Independent voters? Didn't most registered Dems vote in favor

of gay rights?

[newtothegame]

52. That's one thing that's always dissapointed me about DU...

There's like a ranked hierarchy of minority groups we care about, and it never changes. Call it a guilty conscience, call it whatever you want:

1. AFRICAN-AMERICANS
2. All other racial minorities
3. Gays
4. Women

Which is very ironic because it is the BOTTOM TWO that have the most blatent laws and policies against them.

I'd like to think that if we had spent as much time organizing the fight against Prop 8 and the pigs that proposed it, as we did questioning whether Palin's womb or her daughter's produced the most recent child, that we could have defeated this thing.

JMHO.

edited for sp

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. agreed

[Ellen Forradalom]

63. Gays and feminists

were tossed overboard by the Party. That is the ugly truth as I see it.

[Prism]

54. I'm with you

I had the great fortune to be in Grant Park last night. My boyfriend and I celebrated, waved to the CNN cameras, washed into the streets with a sea of humanity in a state of absolute delirium. I got home, my face aching from a permanent grin, and passed out within minutes in my chair (right in the middle of typing responses to posts here, no less). It had been an incredibly long day, a long rally, and my body was just too exhausted to let me see how the anti-gay initiatives had fared.

Today, that grin is gone. The delirium muted. My body and mind swapped places. I slept well, but my soul is exhausted.

Now my forehead aches from scowling.

There's still happiness in me. I feel it swishing around in there somewhere. But it's right now it's shrouded by sadness and darkness and confusion about a world that can accomplish such great good while simultaneously committing such evil.

To experience one of the greatest breakthroughs in civil rights with one of the most painful defeats at the same time. Turmoil doesn't begin to describe that feeling.

[malmapus]

55. I'm so sorry.

I just read about how Prop 8 did out there and am caught by surprise. Of all the states in the Union, California is the last I'd think would pass shit like that.

Is there no hope? Last I read there were still a lot of votes to be counted. Did they already count the votes of the more liberal areas of the state?

[ronnykmarshall]

56. It was like getting kicked in the stomach.

When Obama won last night, we were jumping around the house cheering and crying. All of our phones were ringing non-stop. Michael and I held hands as our new President spoke.

This morning we woke up and we were again second class citizens.

[Chovexani]

64. I couldn't stop thinking about you guys when I heard

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I was so happy and proud last night, crying tears of joy. Today I'm crying for a different reason.

When this country will get the fuck over itself, I don't know. I just don't know.

[Olney Blue]

60. I'm sorry.

:hug:


I don't understand it either.

[terrya]

66. I'm beginning to believe we won't get a goddamned thing from President Obama.

Other than benign neglect.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. well if i am dying maybe lisa can come visit her non-wife

and in my dying state i can be elated to know that straight people think so higly of me

bah humbug

[Book Lover]

70. Bingo

I know you are right. Obama never took a strong pro-gay stand when he needed GLBT support to get elected. Now that he has won *his* fight, he *really* doesn't need GLBT support anymore. Until he says how wrong 8, etc, are, I really don't care about his historic event. I want my own.

[tekisui]

68. I have had a sinking feeling

trying to get my head around this. It is sickening.

I am sorry for your sadness, and I am saddened with you.:hug:

[yardwork]

72. I'm angry with sanctimonious straight posters on DU

who keep telling me that it's not a civil rights issue, is not comparable to other civil rights issue, probably didn't matter to most of the people who voted, and is not a big deal. For dessert, a number of them then call me a racist.

I know it's not productive to be angry but now I am.

[kenny blankenship]

74. at this point, I'd settle for half