Are you in a monogamous relationship or an open one?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

This is an issue which puts people at odds with the GLBT community, since open relationships seem more common in this community than in others. Or are they? I'd say half of gay relationships I know are open, explicitly or implicitly, esp. among older men, which seems to shock some people. Somehow, that just seems the natural arrangement for most men (flame away).

[Misunderestimator]

1. Where are open relationships more common in the gay community?

Where do you live? I have NEVER been in an open relationship and never would. Or are you implying that it is the gay male community that is open? :shrug: Either way... nice flamebait.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

3. I must have lots of decadent friends...

cuz that's my experience, actually not just here but all my life, that half of gay couples are open, explicitly or implicitly.

[Misunderestimator]

5. You must... and you'd probably find the same amount of openness

among straight couples, wherever that is. Wow... Half the gay couples you've known in your life have had open relationships. I've been gay for 23 years now, have lived all over the place in big cities and small towns, and have known a LOT of gay couples. None of them had "open" relationships, male or female. Just the normal relationship problems.

[BR_Parkway]

15. We don't share, and if half of your circle does, the statistics bear

out that half of the str8 crowd do too, so please don't toss this "in general" or "most" crap in here - it only feeds the frenzy to hate us because we're perverted somehow.

I would expect long term same sex relationships to be right on par with long term opposite sex ones - similar numbers of infidelity, similar numbers of success, similar patterns of "seven year itch" and similar numbers of each deciding that thing that works in their own relationship is or is not fidelity to each other - because they all have the same thing in common - they involve people. The hormones don't matter as much as the attitudes and personalities.

http://www.aboutlovers.co.za/stats.html

Monogamy is something most people often say they believe in and want for themselves. Every survey ever done on this question shows a high percentage of people think that monogamy is important to marriage and that affairs are wrong. And most people, when they marry, "intend" to be monogamous. But a belief in monogamy as an ideal doesn't prevent large numbers of people from having extramarital affairs.

Those who have looked at a wide range of studies recognise the "myth" of believing that most people are monogamous. Here are some statistics based not on any one specific study, but on what the 'general consensus' of researchers who have studied this issue is:

<snip>

According to Maggie Scarf, author of "Intimate Partners":

"Most experts do consider the 'educated guess' that at the present time some 50 to 65% of husbands and 45 to 55% of wives become extramaritally involved by the age of 40 to be a relatively reasonable one"

[Padraig18]

2. I don't think that they're common at all.

I'm in a LTR, and while we have occasionally 'played together', neither we nor anyone we know is in an open relationship. Perhaps it's an urban/rural thing?

:shrug:

[Nimrod]

4. I don't think it's because they're men

Many people in homosexual relationships that I have known personally seem to be more open to "exploration". I look at the concept that in general homosexuals aren't as tightly bound up in all the sexual taboos, so there is a slightly higher rate of occurance of open, polyamorous, or "swinging" relationships. Of course the exact same goes for monogamous B&D, roleplay, and other such diversions in equal measure.

The concept is not that we want to sleep around. The concept is that we're comfortable with our sexuality, think sex in general should be fun, and we're happy to try new things (or old things if they were fun the first time). :)

My partner and I are in an open relationship (neither of us have made use of that for awhile, but it's still there). And for over a year we were in a genuine polyamorous relationship. The whole situation was healthy, rewarding, and joyful, and made the bond between us stronger.

Obviously, this generalization is not for everyone. I've known many homosexual relationships that were strictly monogamous and as "vanilla" as it can get. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. People in these sorts of relationships aren't "missing out on anything", as this is what's best for the individuals involved.

Everybody's different.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

16. Please note:

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING NORMAL. Thank you.

(I thought that was unintentionally funny... LOL)

[FuzzyDicePHL]

6. I don't find it all that common either

At least, not since I've moved to a more rural/suburban area, away from the bars of Philly. I think I saw more evidence of open relationships in certain social circles, like the older bar crowd. While I'm sure successful open relationships exist, I have never witnessed any that didn't eventually fall apart (that I am aware of, anyhow).

If that's your scene and it works for you, then great! Personally, I find a one-on-one relationship enough work; why would I want to complicate it further? For me, part of the appeal of a LTR is the special microcosm of intimacy that my BF and I inhabit that no-one else is a part of.

Open relatioships exist in the straight world too. I wonder why people like that aren't written out of the Constitution for undermining the "sanctity of marriage?"
:puke:

[Nimrod]

7. They already are

Straight open relationships can be found in the antiquated sodomy laws. Same ones that make heterosexual oral sex punishable by jail time.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

11. Perhaps

instead of "written out of the Constitution" I should have said, "dragged out into the public eye and treated like shit."

With that wording, I reckon my point have been clearer: Because it would shine a light on the hypocrisy of working against same-gender marriage.

[Nimrod]

14. I imagine they're next

It's easier to get public sympathy when you're fighting something that so many people find personally distasteful. I imagine that once the proper precedents are set concerning homosexuals those will be used as leverage against "perverted" straights - i.e. making the Covenant marriage the standard and abolishing sex toys.

It's all about control. I honestly don't think it's about homosexuals in specific, I think we're a mere stepping stone to having "God's Law" declared. We're the easiest target to gain public support against, so we go first.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. That has been my observation as well.

And I'll probably be blasted for making a generalization here, but I think most of those "open relationships" that failed that I witnessed were just an attempt to hold onto a relationship that was already damaged beyond repair anyway.

[Langley85]

8. Monogamous

I am completely monogamous and I would never go sleeping around with other people. But most people at my high school have the impression that all gay men are sluts, basically, and one guy used "gay promiscuity" as an argument against gay marriage. Of course, no one mentions "straight promiscuity".

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. Exactly!

And notice how they never mention the gay and lesbian couples who have been in long term manogomous relationships? We are simply pushed aside as a pain in their side, because we break the religious rights talking points about what it means to be gay or lesbian.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

17. So true.

The whole class of gays and lesbians should be penalized for what some believe is objectionable behavior on the part of the few. What bullshit.

[foreigncorrespondent]

26. Exactly that!

And the swingers and those who like open relationships are in the minority in the community.

The people you have hung out with do not represent the larger community.

It is like would you say Bush* represents the larger heterosexual community? I wouldn't. Just like the Phelps, Falwell's, Robertson's etc, don't represent the larger Christian community.

[khashka]

32. Man oh man this pisses me off

Not you Langley, but the idea that because my partner and I occassionally engage in sex with other people that it invalidates our relationship. That it ain't real otherwise I wouldn't fuck other guys. Bullshit. We built a life together and it's damn important. Marriage ain't about who you fuck, it's about making a serious and lifelong commitment to another person.

For some people that includes sexual exclusivity. Great for them; I wish them all the happiness in the world. It doesn't include that for me unless my partner needs it to feel secure and safe.

Khash.

[foreigncorrespondent]

9. Manogomous!

And that is the only way I would have it. And I know Sapph feels exactly the same way as I do.

An ex of mine suggested once, that we have an open relationship. Once I explained to him that I do have a lot of people making moves on me a lot, he soon changed his tune.

Then about ten years after that, he began suggesting that we include a third party in the intimate parts of our relationship. He even trapped me into something which was very uncomfortable for me. And if I didn't put a stop to it, well, it would have gone too far.

Of course those were in my straight days. I was in that relationship for 15 years. And they really were the worst 15 years of my life. And I have had one hell of a life.

Now, I am with Sapph. We are about to celebrate our five year anniversary, and there isn't another living soul who could ever turn my head like she did, and still does.

On edit: I guess I should read your entire post before I reply, huh? Why are you starting flamebaits here?

It doesn't matter what community you belong to, there are going to be people who are swingers, couples who love open relationships and so forth. Don't make assumptions that the majority of this happens with older gay males. Hell, I know of several older straight males who chase after little 18 year old boys and girls. And their wives have not agreed to open relationships.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

18. "Why are you starting flamebaits here?"

Well, sorry - I'm not posting flamebaits intentionally, really. I meant it as kind of a prophylactic. I've been flamed on other boards for merely asking about who has such arrangements and why. Some people even say, oh, I used to support SSM, but I don't now, not if you are going to be like that.

But I think it's interesting, and wanted to know what people here think about it.

[foreigncorrespondent]

24. The thing is...

...the moment you type the words "flame away" that is in essence starting a flame bait thread.

[enough]

12. If I can put in a perspective from the "straight" side --

I have been married for 34 years, but believe me we would not be married now if we had not been "open" at certain points during that time.

There were two periods (one in our mid-30's and one in our mid-40's) when we were both involved with other people with the knowledge and consent of our partner. This was not easy but it was necessary for us.

During that same time we saw several of our good friends unhappily divorce over the issue of sex with others. It never made sense to us that sex should be the one area where people said -- "I can negotiate and work with any problem in the marriage except THAT. If you do THAT, it is the end of our marriage."

For us, other elements of life -- our children, our work, our lifelong need to talk to each other -- carried us through these times. Now that we are in our sixties, it seems less likely, but never impossible, that either of us would become passionate about somebody else. But just as when we were younger, we feel free in our marriage to each other because it is not held together by chains.

[GodlessBiker]

13. 18 years and monogamous (excluding the bike).

[Liberal Veteran]

19. Monogamous....

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Siyahamba]

21. Same here.

If my partner wasn't enough to satisfy me, I wouldn't bother being in a relationship.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

22. That's actually an interesting point.

How do heterosexuals come to observe monogamy?

By that I mean, for single heterosexual men, there's no stigma to sleeping around as long as you use condoms (though as I understand it, many heterosexual men still sleep around and do NOT use condoms, but I'll save discussion that for another time). Young, single heterosexual men are not expected to be monogamous. In fact, if you don't have a girlfriend with whom you demonstrate public displays of affection, there's something wrong with you. Not sure what the case was before AIDS, but young heteosexual men are traditionally expected to "sow their wild oats" before deciding to settle down. And if you're Latin, in many cases you're not expected to EVER settle down - case in point, remember Jackie Onassis and she said that she didn't believe ANY man was ever monogamous. Don't know what Hillary thought. Granted, it's not necessarily an agreed-upon arrangement between spouses, but is there much doubt that philanderers know that eventually they'll end up fooling around?

Meanwhile, gay men are expected not to actually have sex nor to have the same amount of lust which heterosexual men have. I even remember reading a profile on a gay man whose sister suggested he take salt-peter as a sexual depressant - I am not making that up.

Sometimes, things seem so backwards.

[readmoreoften]

23. It seems trendy in the urban

queer dyke and FtM community to be polyamorous. Most of these people seem to be in their early to mid-twenties, they're good-looking, they're cranky, and they seem terrified of intimacy or being vulnerable.

That being said, I'm not against polyamory. I refused to be in a monogamous relationship until 32. Why? Because I was good-looking, cranky, and terrified of being vulnerable.

I also didn't want to commit to someone who wasn't the love of my life. I didn't want to settle or lie to myself. Now I'm in love and very monogamous and very committed. It's great that I 'played the field' so much. I have zero sexual curiousity about other people. I've got my little trannyboy and s/he's all I need. We've only been together for two years, which is a tiny blip of time to be sure. But I'm in for the long haul. I'm not going anywhere.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

25. Wow, that's really great!

Thanks for sharing that story - it's nice to know that love happens to
people, maybe even sometimes when they aren't looking, and sometimes that love DOES lead to a kind of devotion which makes monogamy not only workable but sort of "I don't want or need anyone else". :hi:

[Boomer]

28. Oh, god, not again...

>> It seems trendy in the urban queer dyke and FtM community to be polyamorous. <<

Makes me feel so old. Non-monogamy was trendy when I was in college some thirty odd years ago, then fell out of favor. So now it's back again? Guess we've gone full circle. Makes me cringe, just like when I see tie-dyes and bellbottoms.

[transeo]

27. Monogamous

I'm not at all comfortable with an open relationship for myself. I think it's fine for those who can make it work though. However, I have not seen anyone make it work. All the open couples I've known have broken up. But, if it works for someone, then that's great for them.

[xchrom]

29. i don't know -- i'm not a monogamous creature.

i've had a great love life -- many and varied lovers -- when i think about my life, it's one of the best features.

not different really from those who are monogamous -- except there's a few more faces to think back on.

as long as my home life is happy and workable -- i'm not ''jealous'' or ''envious'' if my partner shares intimate moments with others.

if the home life begins to burn out -- well it's time for a talk.
and maybe time for a change.

i'm not lonely, so i don't feel incomplete when i'm not in a relationship -- and i love to discover new people.

you know, in a ''monogamous'' world it's hard to describe why you're not.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

30. Another thing about sex

is that I think guys look at it in isolation whereas girls see it within the context of being a means to an end, whether that's expressing love or fulfilling their marital obligations or having babies or whatever. A girl who treats sex as just sex gets labeled "bad girl". A guy who does it is just being a guy. Unless he's gay, then he's being a "promiscuous, death-flirting fag."

(Must be nice to be a heterosexual man. Would like to experiment with that one day. Just have to change my sexual orientation. Shouldn't be too hard.)

And I'm generalizing of course - gay men here have said polyamory is not for them. All I'm saying is that, like many straight men, many gay men treat sex as its own end, joyous and fun. There is absolutely nothing which can replace really good sex, IMHO, and if I'm getting sub-standard satisfaction from my current love relationship, then I may want to find someone with whom the sex is more satisfying. Without good sex, I get cranky and irritable. It's definitely unhealthy to be sexually frustrated.

It's great when you can find a "f*** buddy" whose relationship with you begins and ends with sex (and condoms, it goes without saying), and you then have your long-term love partner (which sort of reminds me of Roald Dahl's "Mrs. Bixby and the Colonel's Coat" which was dramatized on his British TV show "Tales of the Unexpected," available from Netflix. All I'm going to say. Rent it.)

[khashka]

31. I've been in both

I am not essentially monogamous - it just doesn't feel right to me. But I've done it.

In my non-monogamous relationships there have always been rules of behaviour so that the other person doesn't get hurt.

I don't think you can make hard and fast rules about gay/straight or male/female on this issue. The best you can do is talk statistics. And men seem, statistically, to have and want more sexual partners than women.

But even in marriages that are not open a lot of overlooking and forgiveness goes on. As long as it was only sex rather than an emotional (and therefore threatening) relationship, it'll be overlooked.

I think gay men are more open about it, but that's about all.

Sex and love are not the same thing. Sex and commitment are not the same thing. When they come together that's great, but they don't necessarily do so.

Khash.

[Rowdyboy]

33. Monogamous for 16 years EXCEPT for

our imaginary Hispanic housekeeper, Jorge. We frequently fantasize about Jorge and his exploits!

on edit: There was that dancer in the French Quarter but we were together and it was really innocent. Really....

[Terran]

34. Monogamous, 19 years

Mostly. I admit I strayed a little, a long time ago. Fortunately love triumphs over all.

We're guys, by the way, if that makes a difference to anyone.