Please do not rec this thread

[La Lioness Priyanka]

here is why i hate when a GLBT thread is on the greatest page, all of a sudden people who neither know nor care about GLBT rights start questioning homophobia and its presence on DU. so its my recommendation, in the future if we are discussing homophobia on DU, to not rec the thread.

the thing about bigotry is that it can be subtle and its hard to point out to people who dont care or know about our rights or lack thereof

my 2 cents.

[xchrom]

1. not recommending -- cause what you said is very observant. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. hey sweetheart.. i miss you

:loveya:

[xchrom]

3. yeah -- i miss you too -- i'm thinking of planning a trip to ny. nt

[Duncan Grant]

4. It's way past time for a zero tolerance policy re: homophobia.

If homophobes were nuked -- as they should be -- then recommendations for LGBT threads might be a good thing. ;)

[LeftCoast]

6. DU claims to have a zero-tolerance policy if I'm not mistaken...

The problem is a group of straight folks are telling us what homophobia is.

Maybe it's me, but I see a problem with that.

:shrug:

[Duncan Grant]

7. If homophobia really bothered DU, they'd do something about it.

Thing is, it doesn't bother them. Much.

Most people don't even realize how complicit they are on this issue. It's like white privilege; no one wants to acknowledge it unless they absolutely have to...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. i find it funny how many du'ers now notice the racism...really? where have you been all your life?

[Duncan Grant]

13. Sometimes there's just a huge echoing THUD reverberating around here.

This is a bit OT but, did you see this?

This is Your Nation on White Privilege
By Tim Wise
9/13/08

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=384703&mesg_id=384703

:thumbsup:

[gaspee]

22. Probably

Because it's been posted *at least* three times that I've seen and people don't see the need to respond to the thread more than once.

[LeftCoast]

10. I've long felt that our complaints about it are seen as worse than the homophobia.

Every time I've spoken up about it I've felt that I'm viewed as more of a problem than those people who spout homophobic BS around here. I think we're seen as highly inconvenient loud mouths.

The thing that really gets me though, is that I do not see this behavior on other big liberal forums. Sure, the occasional moronic comment, but not the sustained year-after-year behavior that I've been complaining about around here for so long.

[Duncan Grant]

14. We make people uncomfortable with the truth.

Anyone with any real power around here simply ignores all these little "dust-ups"...

[LeftCoast]

20. I dunno. I really don't want to go around pointing fingers but imo there is a problem here

I've got no doubt that this conversation will get stomped on before too long. Don't care anymore. If I get banned. Don't care anymore. That makes me sad.

I remember when I first came to DU. This was years ago. First I just read. I doubt I created a user account until I'd been reading DU for 6 months or so. This was right after the 1st stolen election. At that time everyone was just looking for another voice of sanity when the rest of the country seemed to have lost it's fucking mind. We became a community of kindred spirits.

I became an official DUer. 2002 it says on my profile. Can't really remember the exact date. I was never a prolific poster but there were a lot fewer of us then. I guess in the early days the homophobic comments were there, but there hadn't been enough time to see the pattern. By '04 though it got ugly. I remember alerting and alerting and nothing being done. I felt as if I were invisible and because my alerts were ignored for so long I guess I've always felt a little bit as if the community I had thought was my home had in some way turned against me.

Anyway, obviously I must still find something of value here or I wouldn't keep coming back. Seems like every time I do though, some ass-hat says something to re-open the old sore.

[ThomCat]

15. For some reason, there is a lot more sustained bigotry here

than on a lot of other forums. DU has a very consistent problem with infestations of homophobia, and sexism, and racism against any groups of non-white people.

Maybe it's because there are a higher volume of sustained conversations here, not just essays and responses. People seem to be less on guard, and show more of who they really are. :shrug:

[Omnibus]

17. To paraphrase Emo Phillips--

Why be prejudiced against anyone because of their race or gender or sexuality... when there're so many real reasons to hate others?

[LeftCoast]

21. Could be...

It's an interesting idea to think about.

[cboy4]

5. Good idea. I know, it's very frustrating .. especially

coping with the ultra-idiotic comments from people who don't even understand what homophobia is.

[offog]

8. I'm not sure I agree with this.

I'm a straight person who is committed to the GLBT cause, partly I had friends in high school who suffered for being "faggy looking".

I think it's healthy to debate with people who "neither know or care about GLBT rights" and/or show that "subtle bigotry". Maybe it's better have those attitudes out in the open, where we can fight them. Some people will never "get it", but there just might be a few "borderline cases" who can be persuaded to see the light, and hey, the GLBT community needs all the support it can get.

BTW, I try to work on this issue as much as I can. I'm open with friends and neighbors about supporting the GLBT cause. For example, I tell people that I belong to the local gay club, and that the people there are really nice.

When someone uses that argument "What about AIDS?" to justify homophobia, I have an argument to give back. I point out that these days, it's mostly young straight people who are at risk of picking up AIDS. I also say "What about sickle-cell anemia?" Sickle-cell anemia affects mostly black people, but that doesn't mean all or most black people carry it. So just because AIDS affects mostly gay men (I'm not even sure that's true anymore), that doesn't mean all or most gay men carry AIDS.

Keep on fighting!

[Fearless]

12. Most HIV infections are certainly not most prevelent in the gay community...

Actually I believe sub-Saharan Africa owns that sad title.

[TechBear_Seattle]

27. HIV infection is a mostly gay male issue only in the United States

And even that is changing. Throughout most of the world, HIV is very much a heterosexual disease, with southeastern Africa, Thailand and Burma especially hard-hit. When faced with the "What about AIDS?" justification, I say exactly that and suggest that the person actually bother to look at the World Health Oragnization's statistics, or any of the dozens of other websites tracking this information.

Also, please remember that AIDS is a very specific diagnosis of late-stage HIV disease. A person can carry HIV -- and spread it to others -- for many years before it becomes AIDS.

[closeupready]

29. When someone asks, "what about AIDS?", my relationship with them ends right there.

I may try and find a polite way of backing out, but I do it.

[Fearless]

11. I won't recommend not recommending... it's just a bigger word for hiding.

We have to normalize ourselves with society not hide from it. Normalizing means that to be accepted people have to see that we are just like them too. Otherwise, they see us as stereotypes printed and voiced by those who hate us want them to see us. We gain acceptance by being open and not by hiding.

[Strathos]

33. NO FREAKIN' WAY

I don't think we should have to assimilate to make other people comfortable.
There are a thousand stereotypes for every human being out there and even though some might fit a few of them, no one is a perfect stereotype.

It's time to stop coddling these fuckers and be ourselves and not apologizing for who we are.

They are the reason we feel inferior and we are the ones who have to change that.

[Omnibus]

16. I won't rec the thread, as you asked.

I do have to say, though, that I'm no less likely to rec homophobia threads at your request, since I wasn't going to rec that kind of thread anyway.

I will be more likely to bitchslap homophobia when I see it, though.


Also, I'm sorry that at least five others rec'd this thread.

Some people can't follow directions. Oh well.

[OHDEM]

18. Discussion & debate raise awareness.

This leads to understanding & tolerance. Even though I have 2 uncles that are gay, I'm not sure I wouldn't offend sometimes on here. I hope not.

Are you offended by discussion of born vs. choice and all that? I read an article about scientists trying to PROVE nature vs. choice. (Mother Jones?) One of the main points at the end was "What difference does it make?" People CHOOSE their religion & we're not allowed to discriminate against them. From my experience personally, I think people are what they are. One of my uncles is in a long-term committed relationship & the happiest I've ever seen him. He says his partner is his "soulmate". I can't imagine telling someone who to love.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. personally i dont care about the choice argument. i dont think we have a god given mandate to be

straight.

i also dont think accidental offense is the main problem

[Solon]

19. I'm not recommending your thread, but I am posting in it...

I don't want assholes to infect this thread like they did the other thread. :hug:

[eridani]

23. Right. Now, don't think of a monkey. n/t

[OakCliffDem]

24. Conceder your thread as not recommended

However, I found your thread on the Greatest page. Sorry about that.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. I know this

I am having a hard time dealing with this place and the attitudes. It is stunning to me how many so called Democrats feel free to tell gay people how we should feel. Hetero privilige runs amock.
The atmosphere here is so toxic at times that I get far too touchy to be of use. In order to do any campaign work, I have to remove myself for at least a day from the DU slug fest. It should be just the opposite. This should be the place to feel Democratic pride.
Yesterday here was demoralizing. Today I am Sensitiva Jones live on stage with a raw last nerve.

[One_Life_To_Give]

28. Wouldn't that be "Staying in the Closet" then?

If one were to only read/post in GLBT then they would be cutting not just themselves off from the rest of DU but cutting the rest of DU off from them. In my experience most would be Homophobes start off that way from a Herd Mentality. The terms have been used for so long that most don't really understand what it means or the hurt that they are inadvertently causing.

As a child we used terms as put-downs of our peers, or to get laughs without any realization of what the term meant or that it might be hurtful to someone other than the intended target. I have seen a dozen guys laughing over the "joke" that someone left a message for a dorm-mate from the Gay Student Association. And how the tone of the conversation changed when a friend pointed out that maybe it wasn't a joke and Ray was really late for his meeting.

And how many times have I myself pissed off most of the regular posters and readers to this section. Only to realize a few days latter what an Ass I and my argument were?

I think we all need to selectively engage homophobia wherever it is found. Maybe that doesn't mean we recommend every thread in GLBT. But I don't think it does us any good to hide away in our own little closet of GLBT forum.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuiderelle]

32. "a club with special rules"... Right... the rules are that we cannot get married, or have equality.

I'm tired of gay people dismissing other gay people's concerns so lightly.

[NMDemDist2]

31. sorry

I have this forum listed along with Cooking & baking, the Economy and Environment ones on the "My Forums" list

I like to stay informed on GLBT issues but am now feeling bad about posting in the Homophobia thread

:blush: