Heterosexual assumption and 'passing' for straight

[canis_lupus]

I had something really disturbing happen on my lunch hour today. A perfect stranger came up with the assumption that I was straight. (Here's where I'm tempted to add a Seinfield-esque "not that there's anything wrong with that.") I've been out for the past 30 years to family, friends, coworkers ... hell, anyone who's known me more than 15 minutes. But today I found it really bothered me to have someone assume I'm straight.

To set the scene, I was on my way back to work and stopped to have a smoke. That's when this guy walked up and asked me for directions. Then he stood there and watched a few women returning from lunch and commented about "the fine looking women" working in my building. I didn't make any comment, but his blatant sexism was doing a tap dance on my last gay nerve. Then he asked if I worked there and when I told him I did he added, "I bet you get to chase pussy all day!"

That was the last straw. "Actually," I told him, "if I was going to chase anything it would be cock." When I saw the shocked expression on his face I added, "But don't worry. You're not my type. I prefer masculine guys." And with that I turned and walked away.

Later I was still steaming about the incident and told myself it was the guy's stupid sexism that annoyed me so much. After all, I've got nothing against heterosexuals (while, except for the Republican, Bible-thumping, racist, or sexist ones). But the more I got to thinking about it, the more I realized my anger was from a deeper source. I think what really bothered me was that after carving a place for myself in an often hostile society and living as an out gay man for decades, one single idiot can exercise his heterosexual privilege and assume that since he's straight, I must be too because that's how his world operates. It's probably too much to hope that I might have enlightened him just a bit today.

OK, I'll climb down from my soapbox now ...

[Tab]

1. screw it

i'm hetero and if someone said that to me my reaction would be that the guy is a first-class asshole.

I think your retort was perfect.

[madeline_con]

2. "I prefer masculine guys." Priceless!

The perfect comeback, it's probably still freaking him out knowing he's not masculine enough. That's funny!

You know, until I saw Kathy Griffin's "D-List" I had no idea what a "bear" was. Some of us are just not very informed. :eyes:

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. I saw that show. Hell, I was *at* that show

The entire thing was an hour and a half; maybe five minutes made it on air, and none of the funny stuff. I didn't get on the air -- my seat was towards the back, and while I was in the Maul when Kathy and crew went through, they passed right by the booth where I was standing in their mad dash to the leather jockstraps. I've been going to IBR for years, and it was funny to watch and go, "I know him. And him. Done them. Know him. BILL!! Know him...."

Oh, and it is the International Bear RENDEZVOUS, not Roundup. Either Kathy kept getting it wrong (not likely) or there were trade mark issues about the name. Just in case anyone is interested in going next year (PM me if you want info :hi:)

[dbackjon]

20. I wanted to go this year - a few of my buddies did

Planning on it next year!

[madeline_con]

23. Thanks for the info.

There may be trademark issues.

The good stuff never gets on that show, she still wants to sell tickets.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

14. So do I, and I don't know where to look.

It seems all the guys I know who are definitely gay are at least partly fem (or too old). Wonder where to look?

[madeline_con]

24. There were some hunks at the Bear Rendezvous.

They have a magazine that probably contains personals.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. You could always learn to spit chiffon

Other that that, I think your comment was appropriate, although I would have added a long, appraising look before issuing your disclaimer about type.

Most people will assume that everyone around them fits into the "norm" of society. That "norm" includes heterosexuality, just as it includes Christianity or a particular political view. The best one can do is raise consciousnesses a few at a time.

[Toasterlad]

5. Seems to Me Like Some Overreacting On Your Part.

He probably assumed you were straight because most people ARE straight. Nothing in your story indicates that he intended any offense. The fact that you took it as an insult suggests that you still have some orientation issues to work out.

His "pussy" comment, while crude and politically incorrect, is thoroughly common guy-speak among men when talking to other men. I can understand why you - or anyone else - might be offended by it, but I'd suggest you take a good long listen to the things you say yourself when you believe you're speaking to a receptive audience before you cast that first stone. It's been my experience that VERY few people go through their day without saying SOMETHING that SOMEONE would find offensive...and the people that do manage it tend to be boring in the extreme.

Sorry to vent all over what you had a right to expect would be a very supportive thread, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people got all hot and bothered by what people SAY without any regard for motive or context.

[Duncan Grant]

8. Contrary much?

The fact that you took it as an insult suggests that you still have some orientation issues to work out.

Ease up, would ya? Sometimes people are looking for a little empathy. I don't know what qualifies you to redefine this guy's experience.

You might want to check out your own motive and context, yeah?

[Toasterlad]

12. I Wasn't Attempting to "Redefine" His Experience.

I was offering my opinion based on the situation as he laid it out.

I have plenty of empathy when I think it's warranted. The whole point of my post is that I don't think it WAS warranted in this case.

[seriousstan]

6. Would you have been OK with him coming over and saying "Excuse me, you look gay..blah blah?"

[Duncan Grant]

9. Is there anyplace on DU where a person won't be met with derision?

Can't we offer up a little empathy and generosity from time to time?

[seriousstan]

13. Sorry, I didn't realize I dropped into a dungeon. I took the link off the front page.

I didn't mean to stir the still.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. screw you. this aint the dungeon. your bigotry has apparantly extended

from religion to sexual orientation, i see. good work.

[mitchtv]

7. Sounds like he was trying to "make friends" with you

Could've been a lousy pickup line. Lots of 'm try it. tacky, but maybe he likes you.

[Duncan Grant]

10. The sexist bravado would get a reaction out of me, too.

When I was a closeted young man, I would hear straight guys talk about women in the most degrading ways. I usually bit my tongue because I thought if I spoke out, I'd be outed. The closet is such a prison, isn't it?

Now that I've been out for over 20+ years, I'd be furious if someone spoke like that about women around me. And this time, I would be ferocious enough to challenge them on it.

Good for you for coming out again today -- even if it did dredge up some old angers. :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. the sexism of the story bothered me too.

:hi:

[Firespirit]

11. Ugh

I know what you mean... not gay myself, but bi (closer to the lesbian side of the spectrum than the str8 one), and it drives me nuts when I am talking casually with str8 female friends and they turn the subject to men and assume that I'm going to love that, but get all affronted when I am equally open about my attractions to both sexes. I am out to my friends, so I take it personally when they demand constant acknowledgment of their heterosexuality but refuse to acknowledge my bisexuality. They seem to think that since I'm the one who isn't "restricted" to one sex, I must accommodate them and expect nothing in return. There's also not a small amount of heterosexism and probably homophobia.

I hate to say that about friends, but it's true. If I talk about a potential relationship with a woman, they'll respond that they would want someone who "complements" them and offers something "different" as their "other half." (This kind of talk enrages me, all the more so because many str8s really do not have a freaking clue how it sounds. Anyone with a same-sex partner is just looking for a dittohead, huh? Oh, not what you meant? I want to be offended? It's traditional romantic crap, not really homophobic? How about this, I distilled your sappy-sounding but disdainful remark down to what you truly think!) If they describe a fantasy and I jokingly ask if it would be interesting to make it a threesome, well, I've had some pretty bad reactions to that, even when it is obviously not a real request.

But if I do what they want, run on with them about their preferred sex, or talk about a potential relationship with a man, I'll be informed that I'm actually just lying to myself about what my orientation is. It's lose/lose.

[Zuiderelle]

15. I understand what you mean. I love your retort to him.

:thumbsup:

Everyone I know and work with knows I'm gay, but strangers always assume I'm straight, including the same type of men who you encountered. Of course, the difference there is that they come on to me... then when they find out I'm gay, they think I'm a pig just like they are and start to treat me like one of their buddies... "Check out the melons on that one" etc. Women make the same assumption, asking if I'm married, etc., but the reactions when they find out I'm gay are usually much more accepting.

I completely understand your annoyance.

[SacredCow]

18. Was it this guy?

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/Universal/snlseason3/SNL_audio_Slate._SX320_CR0,0,0,0_PIblank-vendor-play-shuttle-off,BottomLeft,0,43_.jpg


Seriously, though- that's annoying as all hell. You handled it very well, though.

[City of Mills]

19. Another aspect of the assumption

Is that all heterosexual men would be receptive to the sexual objectification of women. I've run into this most of my life...I have had both acquaintances and coworkers who have come up to me when an attractive woman walks by and make crude, objectifying sexual commments, expecting me to concur. I don't. I love women but there is something about blatant sexual objectification of people that makes me uncomfortable. Something in that mindset removes the dignity of the person. If there wasn't something 'wrong' or rude with that type of expression, why can't it be spoken aloud, rather than in a hushed whisper? Those crude thoughts are presented the same hushed way that racist thoughts are presented between white people. I really have a problem with it and tend to lose respect for people who think it's okay.

[One_Life_To_Give]

21. Love that comeback

:toast:

This kind of guy irks not just you but anybody who doesn't have his narrow view of the world.

[closeupready]

22. I completely empathize with the threadstarter.

I am not a savage. I went to school, I speak English, I read books and I enjoy theater, good wine, food, nice clothes, good music.

Now, this is going to sound pompous (which, coming from me, may be predictable), but a man, regardless of sexual orientation, who chats up a complete stranger about "chasing pussy" (quoting from your post) is a garbage-level man, unfit to be considered my equal. A non-person.

I'm sorry, but I do feel strongly about that. Because I have encountered TONS of such men (as have we all) and my experience has been that such men are the most homophobic men there are. It truly disgusts me. However, many closeted gay men find such talk exciting, for some reason which I can't fathom.

Whatever. I guess you have to hate yourself to be like that. Since I don't hate myself, I guess I won't ever get it.

[insleeforprez]

25. It's an annoyance, I'll admit.

Although it tends to be a bigger hardship when gay people assume I'm straight than when straight people do!