I'm confused.

[Cornus]

Seems that so many of the DU GLBT community are against Obama, mostly because of the Donny McClurkin incident. Their polar opposites, the Christian wing nuts, are also against Obama because he is too pro-gay. I happened upon this article http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=68949 from an obviously right wing Christian group. Just look at some of their comments following the article...truly scary - very, very scary. My feeling is, if they are so against him for being so pro-gay, that's all the more reason why I would want to support him. I think the stance he has taken as reported in this article far outweighs the DMcC incident. What am I missing?

[meegbear]

1. The slap ...

<snip>

Then there’s Obama. In his effort to reach out to black voters, he booked ex-gay homophobe Donnie McClurkin on a gospel music tour through South Carolina. When LGBT supporters understandably criticized his choice of performer, Obama back-peddled and brought in another speaker to balance the event’s line-up: A white, gay pastor. There are any number of black LGBT or LGBT-friendly religious leaders and activists the campaign could have chosen who might have connected with a black evangelical audience, but instead they picked a speaker who, in the context of that event, sent the message that gay equals white. When the media questioned Obama about picking McClurkin, he claimed that it was important to dialogue with people with differing opinions. Dialogue is one thing; giving a homophobe a platform in your campaign is another.

Clinton and Obama also managed to win a Profile in Duck-and-Cover last spring when a reporter asked each of them whether they thought being gay was immoral in response to comments from Gen. Peter Pace, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that "homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral." Clinton declined to answer, saying she would "leave that to others to conclude." Obama also declined to answer, then hopped in a car and drove away. Both campaigns later back-peddled once their lackluster responses provoked an LGBT media shit storm. They then very bravely told the world that they didn’t believe we were horrible sinners. Gee, thanks.

<snip>

http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=columnists&sc=editorial&sc2=&sc3=&id=54312

[terrya]

8. I'll never forgive Obama for Donnie McClurkin.

That wasn't some fucking "mistake" or any of that crap. The gay community was used to help him win South Carolina. And some bullshit "I disagree with his views" shit doesn't cut it with me.

That was one of the most disgusting things I've ever witnessed in a political campaign. And your subject header has it exactly right...a slap in our face.

I'll vote for Obama if he's the nominee. But that episode will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[readmoreoften]

9. It's not that I won't 'forgive' him. I just don't trust the man. At all.

And I think it's time we have a president who doesn't drone on and on about what should go back to being a personal matter. I believe he'll increase faith-based funding. I'd bet money on it. I long for separation of church and state.

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. If I may split a hair here ( it might be a *significant* one):

>>>Clinton declined to answer, saying she would "leave that to others to conclude." Obama also declined to answer, then hopped in a car and drove away>>>

Clinton did NOT decline to answer. She answered. She said she would "leave that for others to conclude."

That's an answer. It suggests plainly that one would be reasonable to conclude that homosexuality is immoral. As reasonable as it would be for one to conclude the opposite.

I don't know what Obama's verbatim response was ( it would be interesting). But Clinton's resonated with me at the time because it was *sooooooo* Hillary.

[davidinalameda]

2. Obama has also received endorsements from a lot of gay newspapers

he called for a total recall of DOMA while Hillary only called for a partial recall

Obama has also said time and time again that he disagrees with what McClurkin has said about gays

Obama has also gone into black churches and called them on their homophobia

he's not homophobic

he's not going to throw us under the bus

you'd be good to support Obama for president

[acmavm]

3. Obama would throw his mother under the bus if he thought it would

get him an endorsement

[Tyo]

5. Ummm.... you forgot some stuff

Obama has stated that his religious beliefs require him to support marriage as being between a man and a woman. Period. Although in fairness, he did leave open the possibility that God telling him that he was wrong in this would cause him the revise his views. Like I'm holding my breath.

He has also stated that he believes that equality for gays and lesbians is an issue best left to the states to legislate. Rather like equality for blacks was an issue left to the states from roughly the 1880s to the 1960s. And we all know how well that worked out. Obama's stances on us may be gentler and more enlightened than say those of George Wallace regarding blacks, they are hardly different in their underlying substance and justification.

[Not Me]

28. His religious beliefs??????

He belongs to the United Church of Christ (as do I). UCC supports same gender marriage.
Can't hide behind that one.

[Tyler Durden]

30. That always got me too.

We have Gay Members, Lesbian Members, and one Transgendered Member at the local UCC.

I may be an atheist, but the minister is an OK guy with me. He has done a yearly joint prayer service with the Islamic Center of Flint; truly a beautiful experience.

[Tyo]

31. Regardless of the position of his church...

Obama has made it clear that he personally doesn't. In this respect he is no different than Catholics who support gay equality, or use birth control for that matter, even though the Church they attend every Sunday condemns these things. It is Obama's personal views that are the issue here.

[plantwomyn]

6. Can you add to this list?

Newsweekly, Gay City News, the Bay Times, and Southern Voice.

[Tyo]

11. And a lot of gay newspapers have caught a lot of crap

from a lot of gays who see Obama for what he is. When it comes to political endorsements what passes for a gay press certainly does not speak for all or even most gays.

[Tyler Durden]

14. Three words: Log Cabin Republicans.

Can't think of any other reason...

[Tyo]

15. If not actual card-carrying membership....

certainly the mentality. Too many gays imo aspire to be the freest and the best second class citizens that they can be.

[Tyler Durden]

16. Why?

I can't picture anyone being happy with that situation.

I'm not female or a teenager, but the thought that someone who is, and might be pregnant and under 17, after the new round of restrictions might be forced by the LAW to carry a pregnancy to term, like some kind of cow or brood mare. It ENRAGES me when I see rights violated, and the LAW perverted for the "beliefs" of the few, or even of the many. The LAW is the LAW.

FUCK anyone who would deny Equal Rights And Equal Treatment Under The Law. May they suffer the abuses that they would visit on others...

NO. I do not wish on them what they would wish on others; that is intrinsically wrong.

[Tyo]

17. I don't know why, Tyler

(good name by the way :7 ) But I can think of no other explanation for the behaviour of some of these people. And while I don't have links or cites at my fingertips there are some heavy-duty LCR types who I believe have actually said that gays are not a true minority in the sense that people of different races are and do not warrant equal treatment when it comes to thing like marriage.

[Tyler Durden]

18. BULL FUCKING SHIT.

Equal Protection Under The Law applies to EVERYONE. The Genetic/Organic basis for homosexuality is now a matter of medical fact. Why don't they say DWARVES can't marry, or that Asperger's Syndrome adults can't get a driver's license?

I'm so fucking tired of this nonsense. Land of the Free my ass.

[Creideiki]

22. Conflict is hard

I think most people don't want to be seen as "militant", which is the label that keeps getting applied to anyone that's actual insistent that civil rights should apply to everyone. It's a, "Don't rock the boat," mentality.

[Tyo]

26. I know it is

But for me it's nowhere near as hard as the alternative.

[davidinalameda]

29. I never saw any negative letters in the SF area gay papers

when they didn't endorse Hillary

one endorsed Richardson, who promptly dropped out and one endorsed Obama

so which papers caught crap?

[hulklogan]

4. The day when the GLBT community trusts the opinion of the fundagelical nutjobs

as proof that a candidate is "pro-gay" is the day we might as well all line up for the brainwashing camps.

These assholes would call Hitler pro-gay because he put queer people in concentration camps rather than shooting them on the spot.

[readmoreoften]

7. No, they call Hitler pro-gay because he let some gays be in the SS before putting them in camps.

Actually, there's a large movement who thinks that Nazi Germany was a gay movement. Read "the Pink Swastika." Actually, you know, don't. Don't infuriate yourself like that. Just know that the book exists.

[Tyler Durden]

10. Two quotes from the debates:

HRC: "Homosexuality is not immoral."
BO: "Homosexuals are not immoral."

The former is a foot in the door for the "normalization" of homosexuality, and Equal Treatment Under The Law. The latter is like a line from a recruiting pamphlet for the Priesthood: "...hate the sin, love the sinner...", You're ok as long as you don't actually PRACTICE homosexuality.

That with his "religious strictures" does not comfort the "hopeful," so to speak.

[Tyo]

12. That's a big part of it right there....

Obama has made it clear that much of his attitude toward us is rooted in a version of Christianity that has a lot in common with that practiced by those same Fundamentalist denominations that have attempted to deny us rights at every turn. We are in his view sadly but undeniably flawed. Almost but not quite the equals of straight people.

[Tyler Durden]

13. Every time I hear some politician talk about "...our freedoms..."

...it makes me want to pull a "Linda Blair" and projectile vomit about a gallon of pea soup on the perpetrator.

Wouldn't that be fucking GREAT? Some asshole starts his schpeil about how free we are and god bless ameriKKKa and all that, and someone in the front row does a scene from the Exorcist right in the middle of his chest??

I giggle with delight just THINKING about it!

[FedoraLV]

32. Congregationalists are not fundamentalists

Nor is Obama: <http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=17737>

Real fundamentalists are outraged that he cites the Bible to support gay right -- Google "Obama Sermon on the Mount" to read pages upon pages of the difference between Obama's religion and theirs.

-FedoraLV

[dropkickpa]

39. It's a fine difference

But one that is very important, IMO.

[Sandaasu]

19. Some people got hung up on McCloset and are ignoring anything else that comes from Obama.

While I'm still unhappy about it, I've kept paying attention since, and have seen that he's certainly no worse for our issues than Hillary is. There's some out there who still try to pick apart everything he says to try to find some further proof of homophobia, but it's just not there.

[MuseRider]

20. I don't need further proof

he did what he did and he has not even tried to make a sincere attempt at an apology. The old saying, actions speak louder than words, is an old saying because for the most part it is always true. His actions were reprehensible to me therefore without a real attempt to engage the GLBT community with a sincere apology he will remain as someone I can not vote for. I do not trust the man, not at all.

We can disagree on this but this is how I feel.

Now, if only I could find someone to vote for.

[Tyo]

21. He is worse....

His core views on us are rooted in his fundie religous convictions and are not subject to debate or discussion. As far as I know Hillary is not similarly in thrall to regligious dogma and RW interpretation of the Bible.

[Creideiki]

23. I could go with you if...

Michelle moderated the message. You know, like Elizabeth moderated Edwards' message.

[Fearless]

35. Thank you.

[Iggo]

24. A complete and un-qualified apology by Obama...

...for the McClurkin incident would far outweigh the McClurkin incident.

That's what you're missing.

[Duncan Grant]

38. And I'd like to add an appearance at a major LGBT event.

With photos (thank you very much).

[NMMNG]

25. McClurkin is only part of it

Anybody who thinks that the McClurkin incident is the only reason I (and numerous others) aren't voting for Obama hasn't been paying attention.

As to the RRRW asshats, as far as they're concerned if a politician isn't demanding full bans on same-sex marriage and even hinting (if not outright stating) that he'd put us all in "Ex-Gay" camps if given half a chance then that politician is too pro-gay for them. They're extremists who want nothing but to take us back to the dark ages.

[urbuddha]

33. San Francisco Castro District is Supporting Obama...

The Castro District in San Francisco is filled with Obama supporters and signs.
I think there are a lot of the gay community who are being mis-led by Hillary.
San Francisco is clearly Obama country.


OBAMA 2008 !

[hulklogan]

34. I don't care if every single GLBT person on planet earth has an Obama sign

in their window/yard. It doesn't change my mind one bit.

[Duncan Grant]

37. I wish you'd quit saying this. I live in SF and it's simply not true.

I live between Noe Valley and the Castro; I'm not seeing a lot of campaign material anywhere. At least, not to the levels you seem to suggest. The apartment building next door has 1 Obama sign and above it (on the second floor), a Hillary sign.

Your entire "San Francisco's gay community loves Obama and you should too!" message is an annoying stretch of the truth.

[LostinVA]

40. Maybe they think if they "Hope" enough, it becomes the truth

[Tyo]

41. claim to be the majority even when you're not

worked for the Bolsheviks, why not for the Obamazombies?

[Creideiki]

36. Apparently Obama sponsored a lot of legislation in Illinois

But nothing about dismantling the DOMA. The ENDA was going to go through Illinois' legislature--it's not like Obama really had to do anything about it. It was a major part of the party's platform and was active in Cook County, Chicago, Oak Park and Evanston long before Blagojevich became governor. Hard to give Obama credit for something that was a shoe-in.

[Iceburg]

42. Obama accomplished nothing in the State Leg... he couldn't even

get a stem cell research bill passed in his 8 years in Illinois.