Initiative ties marriage, procreation

[The Blue Flower]

A group of gay-marriage supporters could begin collecting signatures today for a November ballot initiative that would limit marriage in Washington to couples willing and able to have children.

The measure would also dissolve the union of those who remain childless three years after marrying.

Are they serious?

Gregory Gadow, of the Washington Defense of Marriage Alliance, said the group hopes to make a point by parodying a state Supreme Court ruling last year that denied gays the right to marry because, among other reasons, such unions don't further the purpose of procreation.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003558717_nokids06m.html

[kestrel91316]

1. Good on them. Call the Christofascists' bluff.

[Meeker Morgan]

2. Yeah?

Score a few cheap debating points off the extremists, while pissing off people who don't like change but could be won over.

Or is changing people's minds no longer part of the program?

[Tyo]

3. Well we wouldn't want to upset anyone or make people think would we?

What's happening here is that we are illustrating for people the logical result of the marriage-is-for procreation argument in a way that's difficult for them to ignore. I don't see a problem with this.

We've played the waiting game for too long. My partner and I aren't interested getting married when we're 50 we are interested in getting married now. If this is too radical for Americans to handle then luckily now there are options in terms of countries that are more enlightened than our own.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Unfortunately, we in Washington are out of options

The state Supreme Court has ruled that couples unable to have children together have no right to marriage. So be it.

Let people get pissed off. Let people scream about how unfair this is. But don't blame us. All we are doing is making the destruction of civil rights authored by the Washington Supreme Court obvious to everyone.

The time for subtlty is past.

(Feel free to visit the WA-DOMA website, given in my sig, to learn more about what we are up to and why.)

[Tyo]

5. "The time for subtlety is past". Damn F-cking right

I'm tired of being told not to be too radical and not to expect too much. I'm tired of being told that these things take time and eventually people will come around. Yeah, right. Eventually. Sometime. In the future. So for now just be careful not to upset anyone or piss them off because apparently our rights are not inalienable like everyone else's but depend on the tenuous good will of others. Ooops, sorry, discrimination is part of the state constitution now. "Gee, that's tough, guys, It really is. We feel for you but lets move on."

I'm tired of being wooed by "progressive" candidates only to be patted on the back and sent on my way once I've given them my vote. I'm tired of people telling me that my equality and that of my partner and of our gay brothers and sisters will have to wait because there are more important things that have to be addressed first. Gotta wonder when it will be our turn to be important. Hasn't happened yet. What we get is that our issues are just too sensitive or too divisive or too fucking whatever and we need to put the good of the party first. And we do. We put it first. And second. And third as well.

And we do that cuz we feel like we have be nice and suck it up because we have no place else to go. Well I think it's time for us to get past that. We need to start making some noise and doing some things that might make some of our "supporters" and "moderate" friends a little uncomfortable. Maybe it's time to find out who is really on our side and who loves us only because of our votes and our contributions to the cause. I'd like to thank TechBear for what he and the other people behind this initiative are doing. It's exactly exactly the kind of thing that needs to happen and I hope the idea spreads.

[Jella]

10. Tyo

you are fast becoming my personal hero!

Bravo

[Tyo]

16. Well thanks!

I'm glad someone appreciates my rants:toast:

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. A friend of mine reminded me today...

That the early gay rights organizations were much like the mainstream gay rights organizations of today: traditionalist, conformist, focused on not being seen as offensive or a threat and much more interested in raising money than in raising their voices. Had they been the only ones working for gay rights, all of the bigoted laws of the 1950s would probably still be in place.

But add in a small group of fed-up drag queens tired of the harassment from police and the lack of action from the stodgy mainstream rights groups, and you have a revolution that sparked change that otherwise would not have happened.

I'm not saying that I-957 is another Stonewall, but I have to wonder about the fierce media attention and the large number of supportive emails we've received. We never expected to get such a fast, intense reaction; maybe it was just time for something like this.

[swimboy]

11. Yee-hah!

Make it bite them in the butt!

Looks like they painted themselves right into "unintended consequences corner"

[mondo joe]

7. Who do you think will be pissed off? And why?

[Meeker Morgan]

8. Why make enemies of childfree heteros? n/t

[mondo joe]

9. I still don't know why you think this makes enemies? Do you think childfree heteros

are idiots who don't understand what this is about?

I give them more credit than you do.

[swimboy]

12. Before it would start dissolving marriages of childless heteros

everyone would see the need to undo the stupidly discriminatory decision. This gets people thinking, opens their eyes, and gets them on board with the need for change. It will actually bring allies.

It's brilliant.

[mondo joe]

13. Yes! Especially sincethe majority of households in WA state are

childless couples. There's no way such an initiative would pass, even if it made it to the ballot. But it would get the acknowledgement that procreation should not be a condition for marriage.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

14. Childless couples can get Civil Unions

What's wrong with that? <tongue in cheek>

[Tyo]

15. Or they could go to a lawyer

Any attorney should be able to draw up a contract that would cover everything that they might need. Shouldn't be more than a page or two. (tongue pressed up against inside of cheek)

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

17. Need to be sure NOT to recognize any childless marriages

... from other states or countries either! What kind of signal would that send to true Family Values?

[Tyo]

20. We all need to play by the same rules

We're not asking for "special rights", all we want is for heterosexuals to be treated the same way we are. Heterosexuals deserve the same rights that gays have. What could be fairer than that?

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

22. Let's not start the Rights Vs Privileges debate!

SMILE!!! And fair is fair...

After all, my partner and I of 19 years (as of last month) have been Registered Dom. Partners (in California anyway)...

But considering can't even get equal employment, housing, etc in a lot of areas (including federal government)... seems Fair is far far away.

[Tyo]

25. We need to do what we can to help

It's all about helping straight folks to get good with the intent of both the WSSC ruling and God's plan as these relate to procreation and marriage. We have a sacred obligation to help others who are not as lucky as we are in this regard and this initiative helps further that goal.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

26. I'm working in WA state......

... so give me a petition to take around, I'll get as many signatures as I can!!!! <smile>

[TechBear_Seattle]

27. You can download the petition from our website

It must be printed 11" by 17", so take the PDF to a print shop; each page will cost around 35 to 40 cents. Or you can fill out a contribution form with your mailing address, send it in and ask that we mail you some petitions. Both the petition and the contribution form are on the You Can Help page. :hi:

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. Brilliant!

I will have to steal that line when I'm interviewing on I-957. F-ing brilliant! :rofl:

[triakis36]

21. You got a good idea here.

I-957 shouldn't pass, of course. But that's the point, conservatives are going to have to argue against their own defense of marriage BS to shoot this down. Thereby exposing their hypocritical nonsense. If it pisses off the moderates on the fence, all the better. They need to realize this is serious and we won't back down. Hopefully this gets enough exposure to get people talking, and maybe even thinking.

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. Actually, there is one (and only one) scenario where we will back down

If equal marriage goes into effect before the deadline to turn in signatures, we will withdraw the initiative. That means that both houses of the state Legislature pass the equal marriage bill now before them, the Governor signs it, and the flurry of refendum attempts all fail.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

24. The argument of procreation being tied to marriage = state interest

As defined by the WA courts, right?

So you're only carrying out the stated courts statements that marriage is in the best interest of child rearing. Therefore it should only be limited to couples with children of their own.

No one is limiting anyone's commitment to one another. Only that marriage has been defined by the courts in a very narrow way. Therefore, WA state should open up Civil Unions to ALL non-child bearing couples.

It's a win win for both religion and state! What could be more fitting?

[Divine Discontent]

6. well

as a Christian I LOVE the use of the wacky "right wing evangelical" crowd picking and choosing what scripture they want to follow from old Pharisee conduct codes... lol love it!



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