Should an MD help a hetero man fulfill dream of becoming a lesbian woman?

[Boojatta]

In full, the question is:

If a heterosexual man wanted to become a lesbian woman, then would it be appropriate for a doctor to try to help him become a lesbian woman?

[zanne]

1. WTF are you talking about?

[NJ Democrats]

4. Yeah, I'm thinking the same way.

[varkam]

2. I don't know a great deal about it, but...

in the Diagnostic and Statistical manual of mental disorders there is something called Gender Identity Disorder. Essentially, the internal sexual systems are mismatched with the external genitalia (to bastardize it - a woman trapped in a man's body). In those cases, sex change operations are routinely performed as a treatment. That is, of course, not to say that homosexuals suffer from GID. As I said, I don't know a great deal about it and am not sure what separates that from homosexuality. But in those cases, I would think it's perfectly acceptable.

[idgiehkt]

3. I'm confused about what gender identity has to do with sexual preference.

They are two different things.

The doctor can't 'help' the man become a lesbian. He can only help him become a woman, if he's qualified.

[Boojatta]

7. Suppose a lesbian woman wants to become a heterosexual man.

A doctor might be able to help transform a lesbian woman into a man. Perhaps a doctor doesn't do anything to influence sexual orientation, but a doctor might help her achieve her goal: to become a heterosexual man.

Now, this thread is simply the reverse: a heterosexual man wants to become a lesbian woman.

[idgiehkt]

11. the doctor is not influencing her sexual preference.

the doctor is performing her operation. Sorry to get hung up on semantics, but if you don't get your terminology correct around GLBT people sometimes it makes you look suspicious. The way you phrased your question made it seem as though you might be implying moral issues here, otherwise why would you include the sexual preference in the question since it's irrelevant to the matter at hand.

[Boojatta]

19. I intended to describe it in terms of the person's goal.

The doctor's role is to make it possible for the goal to be achieved. If it were possible for a doctor to influence sexual preference, then we could say that the doctor will refrain from doing that.

I include the sexual preference in the question because I want to give people the option of expressing their opinions about whether or not it's relevant to the matter at hand.

[idgiehkt]

22. they can't do that with a yes or no answer.

Why do you come into the GLBT forum to ask this question?? Are you asking a bunch of queers if we think there is something wrong with us? Why not put this in GD where you'd get more diversity of opinion if in fact that is what you want?

[Boojatta]

25. The poll is intended to spark discussion.

A poll that I write could only allow people to choose an explanation that I write. Some people might feel a desire to write their own explanations and post them in the thread.

I think GLBT is appropriate given the topic of the thread. Anyone who posts in GD can also post in GLBT.

[idgiehkt]

26. did you notice the first post in response to your poll?

that's how most GBLT people are going to respond to it. Like I said before, are you asking a bunch of queers if we think there is something wrong, offensive, or inappropriate about us? Most, if not all of us, are going to answer in the negative. GD might be a better place to get diversity of opinion about something like this. All the no votes, with no posted explanations, demonstrate that this forum is beset by trolls tonight. Putting it here just makes it look like you are being intentionally offensive.

[Boojatta]

30. An attempt to provide answers

did you notice the first post in response to your poll?

Yes. Unfortunately, "WTF are you talking about?" doesn't explain much.

that's how most GBLT people are going to respond to it.

Okay, I will wait for atypical responses.

Like I said before, are you asking a bunch of queers if we think there is something wrong, offensive, or inappropriate about us?

I don't think that I'm asking that. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think that surgery is not necessarily involved in G, L, or B. The poll is about medical intervention.

GD might be a better place to get diversity of opinion about something like this.

I think there will be sufficient diversity right here in GLBT.

All the no votes, with no posted explanations, demonstrate that this forum is beset by trolls tonight.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Perhaps the people who are voting "no" are feeling tongue-tied at the moment.

Putting it here just makes it look like you are being intentionally offensive.

If the poll used some emotion trick to get people to vote for some particular option on impulse before they realized what was happening, then it would be offensive. If it's unbiased, then it's simply an opportunity for people to express an opinion. You might be offended by some expressed opinions, but unrevealed opinions are just as real as revealed opinions.

[zanne]

38. I'm the first poster; I'm heterosexual

I found the question offensive and more of a provocation than a real question.

[zanne]

39. It still doesn't make any sense.

Why would a lesbian want to become a heterosexual man?

[Boojatta]

43. There's no question that some lesbians want to become heterosexual men.

If you are saying that their desires don't make sense, then maybe the reverse does make sense.

Here's an analogy.

Suppose I bought a book for $20, walked out of the bookstore with the new book, and offered it to you for $15. If you knew exactly what was happening, then you might say, "What you are doing makes no sense. Go back in with your receipt and get your $20 back."

The reverse: If you bought a book for $15 then it might make sense for you to try to sell it to me for $20. Maybe I'm afraid that all copies of that particular book will be sold before I can get one.

[ashling]

5. NO ..... and this question begs the question:

Why is there no Constitutional Amedment preventing this sort of thing? :sarcasm:

Whats more, this person should be immediately sent for religious indoctrination ,er... therapy

AND kept out of the military.





we will pray for you

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Boojatta]

10. It's not a question of legality. It's a question of what people consider

appropriate.

[idgiehkt]

13. What people?

The only person whose opinion matters is the one who is considering having the operation.

[Boojatta]

17. Then why do you care enough to participate in this thread?

How about the opinion of doctors who are being asked to perform the operation? What if the man is just 18 and respects the opinions of his parents?

Of course an opinion along with some kind of supporting explanation has more value than an opinion with no explanation.

[idgiehkt]

21. Does the doctor have a moral issue with homosexuality?

Or is the issue with changing the sex of the patient? Can the patient not find a doctor who doesn't have such a conflict about it? I wouldn't want a doctor that had such uncertainty about that kind of thing handling a sharp object around my privates. I would want 100 percent conviction in that respect.

Let's frame it another way...if the patient wanted to have the operation to become a woman, but planned to date men after the surgery, would that alter the doctor's feelings about it? If not, then why is it part of the question? If so, then the kid needs to find another doctor. I don't see how the parents figure in at all, since the kid is of age.

[Boojatta]

23. "I don't see how the parents figure in at all, since the kid is of age."

The poll is not about what is legally possible. The poll is about what people consider to be appropriate.

Suppose a cartoonist were approached and asked to draw a cartoon of Muhammad. Suppose the cartoonist will remain anonymous and there will be no threats to his or her personal safety. Suppose the cartoonist is quite confident that drawing the cartoon would have no legal consequences. Nevertheless, a cartoonist might decide that it would not be appropriate to draw a cartoon of Muhammad simply because it is anticipated that the proposed cartoon would offend people.

[idgiehkt]

24. "offend people"?

is it just me or are you becoming more and more transparent?

Your cartoonist doesn't have any balls. I guess the doctor came through for him in this case.

[Boojatta]

27. Would you serve red wine with fish to your guests?

Some people would say, "No, that wouldn't be appropriate." For example, people who serve neither animal flesh nor alcohol would say "no."

[idgiehkt]

28. I'm a vegetarian and a non-drinker.

LOL. Those are my choices. I'm gonna let you have it by yourself from here on out, because, frankly, all this talk of what is "appropriate", etc, just proves that you are masturbating with this line of questioning and I want to be well out of range when you get 'done'.

[Boojatta]

33. Yet you seem to be offended by this thread.

Here's a link to a thread that currently contains no complaints from offended participants:
Is it possible to bring dead people back to life?

The first option is hard to miss and it is obviously a bit biased, but everybody was a good sport about it.

[Solo_in_MD]

36. There are very few docs who do SRS/GRS

And they have all got their feelings under control.

[ashling]

18. uh, excuse me ....

perhaps I didn't put in enough :sarcasm: thingies...........

[Boojatta]

20. You put in enough sarcasm indicators.

I just want to keep things very clear for poll participants. They aren't asked whether they would forbid the proposed action. They are simply given the option of indicating whether or not they consider the proposed action to be appropriate.

[zanne]

40. LOL! "We will pray for you".

I love it, and if it's OK with you, I intend to use it alot!

[ashling]

41. I'm glad SOMEBODY saw the humor in my post

[babylonsister]

6. I've never heard of a hetero man wanting to become a lesbian

woman. What have I been missing? Please educate me!

[Boojatta]

8. Here's one scenario.

Suppose a heterosexual man has a very good non-sexual relationship with a particular woman who happens to be a lesbian. Suppose she is or becomes single.

[babylonsister]

32. Suppose she does become single. That must be true love

for a hetero man to want to change sexes, with all that entails, to please one woman.

[Redneck Socialist]

Don't know about the OP, but...

One of my co-worker's brothers had a sex change and now dates women. I don't know much about it and all my info is second hand, but from what I've been told it was a pretty classic case of a woman trapped in a man's body. Now he's a she and she likes other women. I don't pretend to understand but apparently she's much happier now.

[babylonsister]

37. A success story there. I wonder if that has to do with a trapped hetero nt

[Solo_in_MD]

35. I have...

There are a number of MTFs who go lez

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. If the end result would agree to give Bush a BJ in the WH I'd be for it.

Anything to get him the F out of office. Please.

[Boojatta]

15. No, but the end result might try to seduce Bush's wife.

The whole point is that the person is initially sexually attracted to women only and remains sexually attracted to women only.

[joemurphy]

12. We let them "help" starlets get big boobs and perkier noses

and let them "help" housewives shed midriff fat. They "help" body builders get big pecs. Who the hell cares anyway. What an inane poll for a political blog.

[idgiehkt]

14. LOL, I just noticed it's a poll.

I've already responded three times...I guess I need to pay more attention.

edit: And who the FUCK is in here voting no, anyway?

[Boojatta]

16. A more polite question might provoke polite responses.

I haven't voted yet, so it wasn't me.

[Warpy]

29. Sexual reassignment is no joke

and that "lesbian in a male body" is both old and insulting.

[pagerbear]

34. Is this question really about MTF transsexuals or is it a joke?

FWIW, I have heard anecdotally that quite a few MTF transsexuals go on to have relationships with women. What I don't understand is why other people seem to have value judgments about it.

[Boojatta]

42. Undeniably it's about a hypothetical MTF transsexual.

Whether or not a question amuses people depends as much on the people as it does on the question. For example, apparently some early developments in quantum physics were used for some dinner party entertainment. I doubt that many physicists said, "People are laughing at these ideas. We'll have to abandon them."

FWIW, I have heard anecdotally that quite a few MTF transsexuals go on to have relationships with women.

This thread is about a hypothetical person who intends, before becoming an MTF transsexual, to have a sexual relationship, after becoming an MTF transsexual, with at least one woman.

What I don't understand is why other people seem to have value judgments about it.

Maybe some of those people will explain why in this thread.

[saltpoint]

31. If any two people are drawn to each other, laws and biases should not

impede their shot to be happy.

"Let us not to the marriage of true minds admit impediments," to borrow from Willy the Shake.

[TaleWgnDg]

44. This poll (and its result) are a fishing expedition, period.

.




"wanted to become" ??? and "help him become" ??? ROFLMAO . . .

.

[Boojatta]

45. How does one show that a poll is not a "fishing expedition"?

When you say "period", do you mean that the poll is nothing but the fishing expedition that you say it is?

If you were to say "Thalidomide is a drug that was used to treat morning sickness, caused birth defects, and is now banned, period", then the "period" might be premature if Thalidomide is being investigated for use in the treatment of some cancers.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

46. I'm going to lock this.

It's inappropriate, flamebait & pointless.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator