Do you consider it gay bashing when the police patrol

[pnwmom]

parks and restrooms?

Today I was googling, trying to find out what happened to a little Yorkie that had been attacked by a large dog in one of our nearby parks. (One of my sons had been there and was upset.)

Instead, I ran into this website:

http://listings.cruisingforsex.com/cfs/index.php?file=h&when=over180

A number of entries were for parks in my area, including one involving a solicitation of a minor. As a mother, I'm glad to know that police are keeping a presence in bathrooms and in parks. I don't want my kids running into anyone, male or female, in the act of having sex.

But I've learned that some people consider this enforcement to be gay bashing.

How come?

[Moloch]

1. This is not gay bashing at all.

Nobody, gay or straight should be engaging in sexual activity in public places like that.

[Roon]

2. They are closet queens

Lock them up!!

[marmar]

3. I suppose that sex in illegal places is sex in illegal places...

but it seems that it's ALWAYS gay men who are busted, which indicates to me they're being targeted. Just like Guiliani's (and Bloomberg's) crackdown on drugs and underage drinking in NYC - it seemed to almost always be gay bars. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[Raster]

6. It is NO coincidence.

[pnwmom]

7. But I've been in women's bathrooms thousands of times and never seen

any hint of sexual activity. So I don't think it's selective enforcement.

Who else would be arrested in a men's room other than men? Do you think women would be likely to have sex with men in a men's room? If they were wrecked out of their minds, I suppose.

[foreigncorrespondent]

35. You should try...

...working as a mall security guard then. I can't count how many women I have caught engaging in an sexual act in the female bathrooms. Usually it would be at night after the majority of the mall was closed, but some area were still open to public access because Safeway was still open until 10pm.

I also used to catch a lot of heterosexual couples engaging in full on sex on one of the roof top parking area. It got the point where I said to my supervisor that I really felt like I was the sex police. LOL

On edit: typo

[MadMaddie]

4. If the park was frequented by straight hookers the police would

be there....if they are committing sex crimes then they should be busted...either way...

And it is not just worrying about people who are having sex in bathrooms....there is drug trafficking.. and there are sexual predators who are both heterosexual and gay looking for the out of place child.....

If the police didn't patrol the park and gays got bashed then there would be an outcry of not enough patrols.....I would rather the police be there....

[Raster]

5. it's not gay bashing if said police are also making it part of their

duties to make sure that heterosexuals aren't also having sex in public places. Lover's Lanes anyone?

[pnwmom]

9. I don't think Lover's Lanes are quite the same, because people

there are in their cars. Actually, come to think of it, I wouldn't care if gay men had relations in their cars in a Lover's Lane, if there was such a place.

But I don't like having to worry that my children will run into people having sex in bathrooms or in the park.

Once, about twenty years ago, I reported to a park employee that there was a man walking around the children's wading pool who was exposing himself. (This was in the days before cell phones, so I couldn't just call 911. ) Her answer to me: "Don't worry, he's harmless."

So all the mothers and kids ended up leaving the little park because of the "harmless" guy parading around in the wading pool.

[benburch]

8. No, not bashing when we are talking parks and restrooms!

When, however, we are talking the cops busting the backroom at a gay bar or an adult bookstore, I can see no public interest being served!

[pnwmom]

11. Makes sense to me. Some places almost no one would care.

[mitchtv]

22. If they just stopped at patrolling, but when they send in

their best looking officers to loiter around and play with themselves in order to arouse interest in sex, I have a problem with that, and it is quite common for this to occur, although it is never called entrapment, but rather
"patrolling"

[azurnoir]

10. Depends on the cop

Some cops patrol because it's part of their job to be in "gay neighborhoods" but some do it for what they think is "fun"I know this as a fact because I've worked waitressing in restaurants frequented by cops.

[pnwmom]

12. The park near my house is definitely not in a "gay neighborhood."

And looking at the list of places in my state, they were pretty scattered around.

Actually, assuming that cruisers are probably in the closet, it would make sense that they would use parks near where they live -- which could be anywhere. On the other hand, there is a serious ongoing problem at the big park in Seattle that IS in a gay neighborhood. So who knows.

[AutumnMist]

13. Both My Brother and My Best Friend

are gay. We have had very colorful talks about bathrooms and parks when it comes to cruising for men. Does that mean its solely gay when it comes to the occurrence? No, it doesn't. But ultimately gay men frequent these places for what it represents. Easy in and out sexual activity. But honestly? My straight single girlfriends do the same things in alleys and cars on occasion and there is no cop in sight when it happens. The straight bars don't have patrol for sexual activity per say. Its for fighting, etc. As a mother and person who likes parks for family issues I wouldn't like the sexual activity of anyone to be public. Same thought process goes for downtown and alley ways. The only real point that I can make about it is that from my own experience many cops choose to cruise a park at 2 am (when most families have long since gone to bed) for a gay man, then they do for a straight girl in heels doing the deed in an alley.

[pnwmom]

14. Having sex in a car in an out of the way place doesn't bother me

as much as people who do it in parks and bathrooms.

What really bothers me are the people who have sex in the bushes in broad daylight, or in store bathrooms, where children are likely to run into them.

"Easy in and out sexual activity." Does that idea put you off ? How do you react when your brother talks about this?

[AutumnMist]

15. About the Same Way It Does

when one of my straight friends talk about it. Its not something I support obviously. My point was that like cars in out the way places and alleys in the dark of night, most gay men don't have sex in bushes in broad daylight and it isn't about sexual display in public. It is an out of the way occurrence for the most part. And no, my brother isn't hanging out in bathrooms for sex. He has his own apartment and his own life. Sex in public places isn't new, nor is it solely gay. And most, unless they like being seen, keep it out of the way of families and prying eyes. I myself have never seen anyone in a park having sex in broad daylight. Or a bathroom for that matter. with or without my daughter. I just know it happens. And I have talked about it with people that are very close to me. When police patrol they should want to eliminate all public sexual displays, not just gay men. At 3 am. In a park. Thats it in a nutshell. Keep your business to yourself? Of course! But a gay man getting busted in a bathroom would make headlines, a straight person getting busted in a bathroom wouldn't make a blip on anyones radar. Why is that? If the behavior shouldn't be accepted at all...then why is it only talked about when we are talking about gay men or women? Sexual exploration, whatever you would like to call it...is across the board. I am not saying anyone has a free pass to deviant behavior because of who they have sex with, I am saying that we all have the right to be treated fairly in terms of law and the court system. And that no one should be singled out because of what their sexual preference is. If its illegal, its illegal. Period.

[pnwmom]

16. I've never seen it in a women's bathroom either. I really don't think it

happens there nearly as often, for whatever reason. So it's not necessarily that the police are being discriminatory . . . it's just that they get the complaints from the places where the activities are occurring -- which are men's bathrooms, not women's. (How many lesbians do you know that cruise around and have sex in bathrooms? Or straight women, for that matter. The smell, if nothing else, would be a complete turn-off, IMO!)

Unfortunately, a large public park in our area does have a major problem with gay men having sex during daylight hours, when families with kids are trying to use the park. It isn't just a matter of police trying to sneak up on gay guys at 3 a.m.

[AutumnMist]

17. Im Sorry You Do Have That Problem

I haven't seen it in terms of the daytime activity. And the police force that I have seen in southern california (some not all) have really not cared about any sexual activity on beaches and in parks when it comes to hetero sex. But I have seen some vicious abuse towards gay men and women, regardless of the bathroom scenario. And I wasn't saying that all police hide in the bushes for gay men at 3am. My point was that there are just as many straight people having sex in places that they shouldn't. And that the law stretches across the whole spectrum. I could see some police cruising as gay bashing. I have heard/seen police scream with the night sticks and so on and so forth. I as a straight girl haven't seen that kind of hostility when my straight friends and I tripped the light fantastic during the college years. But I don't want to fight about it honestly. I just think that the image and the treatment of most gay men and women suck. Regardless of what they are doing. They get treated so much worse then most straight people do. I don't support that. And thats not to say that I support public sexual displays of any kind, its just to say that gay bashing does occur during those 3 am cruises. And its not because I think that all deputies are playing Scooby Doo ghost hunters. Because of my brother, because of my best friend...I wont back down on the fact that there are some very hateful...very shitty police officers that do target gay people. Just because they can. Its not a duck hunt. Its fair treatment. Public sex is world wide I would imagine, and if all you are seeing is gay men, then you need to do something about it. But it certainly doesn't mean that only gay men do such a thing. All people make terrible and costly mistakes. Straight or gay. They are wrong for using a park in such a manner, but I think that you are wrong to think that its an exaggeration that the police don't search out gay men or women at 3 am. Just to harass. They do. And until we stop pretending that only gay people screw in public? Well then we only target gay people...wont we?

[AutumnMist]

18. Thank You

for your perspective. :) I hope you have a great night. And I do mean that.

[pnwmom]

19. You, too, Autumn Mist.

[foreigncorrespondent]

36. You can't be against one without the other!

People can be viewed just as easily having sex in their cars as they can having sex in the bathroom in one of the cubicles. If a kid really wants to see what is going on that kid is going to see.

I remember the first time we had a report of a couple (on the roof top parking of the mall I was working at) engaging in full on sex and I had to be the guard to bust it up. I have never felt so embarrassed in my life. This couple was engaging in sex during daylight ours where everyone could see what was happening. In fact it was a woman customer who had reported this incident to us in the first place, because her child had seen them and asked her mother what they were doing in the red car. And that was a heterosexual couple. I didn't call the police, but I gave them a couple of minutes to get dressed and get out or I would call the police.

[iconoclastNYC]

30. Important to note that most of these people are closet gays

Who stumble onto the fact that you can hook up at these places.... since they wouldn't be caught dead in a gay bar they keep going back to these "Tea rooms" for action.

I think it's important to note that it's homophobia that drives men to have sex in public bathrooms rather then bring it home, in private.

This is a homophobia issue, not a gay issue.

[purduejake]

31. Very well said!

[dsc]

20. No, but

There have been many cases of men entrapped in restrooms. A person goes to the restroom and sees a very hot looking guy. The hot looking guy then asks if you want to have sex. You say yes, then bam, he is a cop. Or sometimes he just says you said yes. This is now a bit less common as being openly gay has gotten more common since more men are fighting this.

[Democrats_win]

21. On the other hand, children are being poisoned by wingnuts & their war.

[swimboy]

23. Not too long ago many of the gay clubs here were shut down

because of drug activity.

Apparently there is no drug activity at any of the City's straight clubs. :eyes:

Without endorsing drug activity, I couldn't help thinking the clubs had been selectively targeted.

[closeupready]

24. I actually asked one of those club's employees if

he thought it was discrimination, and he said that they had done their own investigation into that question, and they themselves did not find discrimination on the part of the police, that straight clubs had been busted, too. (If you're talking about NYC.)

I'm still not convinced, but that's hard to refute.

As to the thread topic, many gay men are like McGreevey, in loveless marriages, no real love connection - what do you think they're going to do? Not ideally, but in reality?

[swimboy]

26. No, further south.

Richmond, Virginia.

As to your other point:
It may have been Ben Franklin or Voltaire who said "Where you find marriage without sex, you will soon find sex without marriage."

The closet is no place to try and live one's life.

[pnwmom]

28. In reality? Not have sex in bathrooms and in the bushes.

I don't expect gay men to be cruder than straight men, do you? There ARE other places. Even, as I said, a car parked in an out of the way place would be better than in a public area.

[Laughing Mirror]

29. A goodly percentage of penises seeking relief in men's roms and bushes

are attached to "straight" or married men, let us not forget.

Thanks for the link to cruisingforsex, pnwmom. I had completely forgotten about that site.

[pnwmom]

27. If they're not going after straight clubs, then it certainly sounds

like they are targeting. I'm sure that still happens a lot, unfortunately.

[mephie00]

33. I'd have to agree with you on that...

I live in liberal Massachusetts. Two gay bars get shut down, one for underaged drinking and one cause someone left a like of coke on a urinal or something. Meanwhile a certain heterosexual strip bar was left alone for well over a year despite that it was common knowledge that the strippers were all crack/meth/heroine users/ sellers. Not to mention that at least half of them prostituted as well.

So a gay bar gets shut down cause someone used cocain in the bathroom but the heterosexual strip club-whorehouse-crack house stayed open for bussiness.

[William769]

25. Not Gay bashing at all.

In fact I like the idea!

[mephie00]

32. Well, it's a little more complex then that...

Way back during the 60's and 50's police officers would hang out in public restrooms in areas where gay people hung out (or go right to a gay bar) the police officers would then make passes at gay men and if the man asked if they "wanted to go back to his place" they were then arrested for "lewd" and "obscene" behavior and "disturbing the peace". There was a case that went to the US Supreme Court (was denied cert) over two gay men that were arrested for kissing in a gay bar at midnight on new years eve.

Applying that to the situation at hand. I doubt many parents would like their child to walk in on two people having sex in a public restroom. Are the police monitoring random restrooms or just restrooms where gay people meet? It be nice to know that your child won't walk in one two men at a truck stop but can still walk in on a male and female getting frisky in the McDonalds restroom.

Besides that, regardless, there is a question over if it's constitutional to monitor a public restroom without a warrant to spy on random individuals. I'm sure you'd be just as upset as I would to learn that the local police department has hidden camera footage of you taking a dump.

[foreigncorrespondent]

34. Interesting question!

Funny thing is here in Australia we have laws which do prevent police harassment of this kind to a point. Basically if you are in a public bathroom and engaging in an sexual act BEHIND a closed cubical door to the point where the police will need to peer over the top or bottom of the door/walls, that they are in fact breaking the privacy laws. However if you are engaging in a sexual act in the open area of the bathroom then you can be arrested for it.

I don't consider it a form of gay bashing so long as the police are responsible for checking both male and female bathrooms (women do have sex in public bathrooms, I have come across it many times over my years) and also arrest heterosexual couples who are engaging in sex in public bathrooms (it isn't just gay couples who engage in sex in public bathrooms.) But if police are just targeting known gay pick up hot spots then yes, it is a form of gay bashing.

You also need to remember that quite a few of the men caught having sex with another man in a bathroom are usually men who live a double life. Meaning they are usually men with families (wives and children.)

[The Brethren]

37. applied equally to all.

If the police are following the law and arresting anyone engaging in public sex, then they're doing their jobs. However, if they single out gay men, the gay men have violated the law like anyone else, but to me, it's also harassment and discrimination. Where I grew up, gay men were clearly targeted at a local park...actually on a small island off the city. Even the locals bragged about gay bashing (gay men) at night while the police would routinely patrol the island looking for men having sex together. Funny, I never heard or read about (straight) guys being arrested at the park for assaulting gay men. I guess it was more important to arrest the ones having sex with one another instead.

It also bothered me that during the day when I use to visit the island to relax and enjoy the area, I was often approached by men in their cars or on foot looking for sex, many offering to pay for it. They were very direct about it. And no one was patrolling the area. One guy blocked my car in with his so I couldn't get out. I had to find a cop to report what was going on. There were also families nearby with children....and a public pool that parents frequently left their kids at thinking they were safe because it was daytime. And yet, this wasn't a priority to the police. Nighttime on the other hand was - when men were primarily the ones who used the park.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

38. You shouldn't have sex in public!

I have no problem with people meeting at a certain place in order to take it elsewhere, but don't expose yourself, and don't have sex in a public place!