It really is all or nothing - compromises cost every single one of us

[BR_Parkway]

A most outstanding summary of why gay rights matters to everyone - and the hipocracy that sometimes gets practiced around here in the name of "oh, equal rights for gays might cost us that seat, just shut up and wait"

http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/2006/02/this-and-that_25.html

When people take the approach that if an anti-gay-marriage although pro-civil-union politician runs, that's better than nothing, basically they are saying our civil rights and equality are NOT the most important thing our government can support and protect, that it is okay to back-burner those issues or let some people be second-class, be not as good, be not quite as worthy, for however much longer, so that some _real good_ can be accomplished.

And I watch as my gay friends and my str8 friends and acquaintances come to this decision over and over: we will sacrifice your (or our, if you are gay) rights and equality so that we can have the hope of a better life or so that we can defeat the forces of evil. Yet these same people, str8 or gay, are so quick to condemn exactly that same argument regarding domestic spying, that we can sacrifice the rights of some to achieve other gains, that the ends justifies the means.

To me it seems clearly hypocritical. You aren't protecting what may have been good about this country in either case. You are destroying the good. You are an enabler. You are part of that awful process, and I find the middle-grounders in this, the "be patient, wait while we do other things that are more important," to be more depressing to think about or deal with than the people on the far right, who at least are not being hypocritical. I think those on the right pretty much believe what they say when they say gay marriage is simply a ploy for "special rights" and an attempt to destroy society. I may not agree, but I don't see the internal discrepancy that I see in the "gay people wait for their rights while we elect people who will protect everyone's right not to be spied on, etc." Sorry, but I can't understand why civil rights would not be an all or nothing thing, and both these issues in some ways involve rights to privacy and freedom of association.

The polarization between right and left seems to exist to some degree between all the varieties of right and left, although to me the left seems more damaged by it. I don't see myself persuading anyone I know not to vote for the middle ground on equal rights issues. I sure as hell don't see any of them changing me in the least.

In a way I suppose I would like to thank the middle-grounders and the "yes, it's not fair, but you have to be realistic" crowd for making me stop and think about just what is going on here. After growing up in the sixties and seventies feeling completely "other," a queer in a str8 world, an atheist in the Bible Belt, a socialist in the Democrat-becoming-Republican solid south, you'd think it'd have been hard for me to feel even less welcome, but that's pretty much what the marriage debate has done for me. And it's not the right who's done it; it's the compromise crowd.

Gay-Straight Alliance, anyone? I can see what we queers are giving up here. Can someone remind me what the str8s are giving up in not supporting in every possible way fair and equal civil rights for all?

[xchrom]

1. well said -- k & r

[murielm99]

2. No one should have to shut up and wait.

Gays are Americans right now, and should have equal rights right now.

Black people were always told to wait. Go slow, and the rights will magically pop up.

And women are told that it might be okay for them to give up their reproductive rights in order to teach the country a lesson. They will get them back all in good time.

How many times to we have to hear this shit? Wait for the right time? The right time is right now.

[greekspeak]

4. Well said...it took action for discriminated groups to get rights

Sitting down and "being nice" does not help. After sit ins, riots, fights, torture, lynchings, African-Americans got to start down the road to equality in America. They are no where near equality yet. Ghettoization...the shame of Katrina...racial profiling...low graduation rates...and on and on. Women had to burn bras, demonstrate, yell, be trod up, demonstrate to get started down the road to equality. They are no where near equal yet. Their bodies are not their yet own...they are paid less than men...they are objectified as objects of pleasure for men...and on and on and on. Gays are no different. Swaths of Americans see us as subhuman deviants. Lies are spread about us. We are dragged behind trucks, tied to fences to die. We cannot be joined in unions with our beloved. But we just need to go sit in the back of the bus and wait our turn, along with all the other people who have been are and will discriminated against. Bullshit.

[cali]

3. I suppose I see this battle as a little more

nuanced than the author. (In the interests of disclosure: i'm straight, but I have spent a lot of time on gay/lesbian issues) I think part of this depends on where you vote. It's as much about which tactics you use to advance full civil rights for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. It's also about picking your battles. Right now, I'm more concerned about the outrageous attempts in 16 states, to bar gay adoption and foster parenting. Yes, I know that marriage rights would solve that, but the reality is that this push needs to be fought on the terms that are on the ground.

When the VT legislature decided on civil unions rather than marriage, I was disappointed, but I got right down to work on making sure that the best possible civil unions bill passed, and that it wasn't subsequently revoked. It is separate but not equal, but it does guarantee every right granted to hetero couples who marry.

I'm conflicted about how best to achieve gay/lesbian marriage, something I strongly support, and I confess to being afraid of blow back. Maybe that makes me middle of the road, a 'compromiser".

[BR_Parkway]

5. But without the public voice that a politician brings to the issue - only

one side gets heard much.

How nice it would be for a Dem (constantly accused of offering no ideas in the media) were to say "hey, discrimination against anyone isn't American" and "why should hetero's get special rights" - let the debate be heard. Make the bigots stand up and spout off what they believe. Make people choose to side with people like Phelps.

When one side presents us as demons, and the other side stays silent in hopes of not screwing up their "bigger" agenda - we remain presented as demons with none to object. I have to agree with the original author I quoted - sacrificing some parts as a means to an end is hypocritical

And while I want to say thank you very much for your help in the VT fight for equality, I need to correct your statement just slightly - the state Civil unions laws do absolutely nothing to guarantee any of the Federal rights that VT straight couples automatically qualify for.