I have a question...Re: Gay punchlines in the 80's..

[bliss_eternal]

When was it deemed socially acceptable to do 'gay' jokes in the eighties? I was watching one of the Eddie Murphy comedy concerts from that era and I'm frankly blown away by his homophobia. Not. Funny. At. All.

Yet while watching, the audience is clapping and laughing and all. I'm confused as to what they are laughing about, it just wasn't funny.

Given Eddie's prior exploits, and the parts of town he's been caught in with transgendered individuals I'm watching this from THAT perspective but that's a whole other post. ;)

I also ask because I've noticed other comedians from that era seem particularly fond of poking fun at the expense of the gay community, primarily male comedians. It has a very different feel from Margaret Cho or Kathy Griffin's jokes about being as they say, 'fag hags.'

Anyway, what gives with the 'gay jokes' in the 80's? Any theories from anyone on this...

[bliss_eternal]

1. I really should have counted--

all of his gay references and all of his penis references.

Dude is overcompensating for something--he talks about 'big dicks' way too much. Too many 'gay guys' do ______(fill in the blank)_____. How the hell would he know...?

[TaleWgnDg]

2. Eddie Murphy has ALWAYS been a homophobe. Many

.
Eddie Murphy has ALWAYS been a homophobe. Many folks (including my entire family) boycott the *ss. Funny? No. Who the hell can claim being funny at the expense of trammeling over another human being? or a group of human beings? No thanks. Particularly when it assists a perpetuation of denial of human rights!

What is particularly shocking about Murphy is that one would expect another human being who has suffered the slings and arrows of the majority to be understanding about slings and arrows at another minority group. How wrong and out of touch w/ humanity can it get?
.

[bliss_eternal]

3. I cringe when men of color

take shots at the gay community. There are too many men of color that are closeted and suffer because such hostility and 'jokes' are tolerated.

After Murphy was discovered in West Hollywood, I started to wonder if he was a homophobe or just in the closet? Like so many fundie, politicians that seem on some sort of 'mission' against gays, only to be later discovered they've been sneaking around in the company of other men.

[terrya]

6. Well, quite a few of the Wayans brothers are guilty of the same.

Personally, I was offended at the "Men on Film" feature on "In Living Color". It was blatantly homophobic, IMO. Mean spirited "laughs" at our expense. IMO.

[bliss_eternal]

9. You're right, the Wayans did do this.

Not having been one to have seen a lot of their work, they didn't immediately leap to mind. But since you mentioned Men of Film, I think the same Wayans that did that, also appeared in Murphy's movie Beverly Hills Cop--doing something similiar. You're right it IS homophobic.

I don't understand why in these guys minds, it's ok to do this at all. It's hateful. Not being one that has seen any of their 'Scary Movie' franchise, I'm now curious as to who their fan base is...

[Kahuna]

4. I remember watching that Eddie Murphy concert at the time..

It was hideous. Truly disgusting.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Troubled, self-hater. What's really fascinating though,

is the wildly enthusiastic response from the general public. When the definitive , unauthorized bio of this poor fool is written, it's gotta examine the phenomenal resonance of his comedy (?) with the booboisie.

I'm not sure exactly what it means , but it means *something*. And just because Murphy's unvarnished material was pretty much limited to the '80s, it doesn't mean that the public's receptiveness to this style of defamation is no longer significant.

The receptiveness is still there... it's just a bit harder to recognize.

[bliss_eternal]

7. I agree that it does mean something...

and you're right that receptiveness to the material is still there, unfortunately.

It's significant to me that he focused so much time and attention to 'gay bashing' material in his routines. That's why in my earlier post, I kind of lamented the fact that I didn't make note of how frequently he did. It's striking though, because he doesn't treat it as a bit--touching on it and moving on to something else, not revisiting it again. He goes back to it a few times during the course of the entire show.

Astute observation, the fact that you classify him as a troubled self hater.

It's also interesting to me that he used to hang out on a very consistent basis with Arsenio Hall. Now the two of them act like that never happened, and they don't know one another. Little off the main topic--sorry.

[kweerwolf]

8. I remember one Eddie Murphy routine ...

... in which he expressed worry about straight women who hang out with gay men "and be kissin' on them and bring home gay diseases." I think that was on an HBO special. Anyway, it ignited a big controversy with gay groups threatening a boycott of his record label and running ads in Rolling Stone about the Eddie Murphy Disease Foundation. At one point Whoopie Goldberg got involved and commented that Eddie shouldn't have made those jokes. I remember that Eddie's response was that his critics could "kiss my black ass." He's never apologized for his comments.

What's amazing now is that he's considered some sort of "family friendly" comedian showing up in Disney movies.

[bliss_eternal]

10. Wow--I missed that whole controversy!!

I'm shocked that he was such an asshole and so dismissive of the boycott and feedback from his comments. Well, I shouldn't say shocked. It pretty much fits into the whole package of what I suspect he is now...Closeted and living a lie.

It IS amazing that he is considered 'family friendly.' But I see now how that entire image was groomed by he and his 'people.'

I'm sure you heard about his 'incident' here--where he was pulled over by police when he picked up a transgendered prostitute in/near a gay community. He claimed he was merely trying to be a good samaritan and saw a lady out in the middle of the night and offered her a ride.

The funny thing was that LONG before this incident a former co-worker of mine, had shared that everyone in that area knew Eddie's jeep by sight. They also were well aware of his and Arsenio Hall's preferences (the kind of guys they liked to pick up to go party with them).

Then, this happened. The funny thing is when stuff like this happens here, usually there is a HUGE media storm, with offers for the picked up person to do the talk show circuit, interviews, etc. (Remember Hugh Grant and Divine Brown--Divine got PAID for being picked up by Hugh. She got all kinds of money for interviews, etc. ). This was NOT the case for the transgendered girl Eddie picked up. She just disappeared--as did the incident. Suddenly Eddie no longer hung out with Arsenio. They pretend they don't know each other and Eddie appears in Disney fare.

Looking back on it, it looks a lot like the old Hollywood cover-ups from yester year when Monty Cliff, Rock Hudson, etc. were given images by the studios (which the media had a hand in) to further their careers.

[joeybee12]

11. Yeah, Ediie claimed he was "counseling" the transvestite prostitute!

It was too funny! But yeah, it did go away pretty darn quick.

[bliss_eternal]

12. Counseling--

Hahaha! I had forgotten that was the way he put it! :rofl:

My read on it is Arsenio was also closeted and that was his running buddy. When that incident occured, it hit too close to home, for Murphy and his career. Practically overnight, he went from 'bad boy' to Disney dad.

While it's funny how ridiculous the whole cover-up was, the sadder thing to me is to see someone say such hateful things early in his career, then to have something like this happen... No one can hide who and what they really are forever, can they?

[joeybee12]

13. He was probably throwing out all those homophobic jokes and

slurs just to cover his tracks! Ah, but he didn't fool some of us!

[bliss_eternal]

14. A guy I worked with prior to that time,

did shows regularly in the area. He was the one that told me that everyone in the area KNEW Eddie's jeep. Mind you this was YEARS before Eddie was popped in the area being a 'good samaritan.'

The conversation had come up because a group was trying to tell some of us how many of those tabloid reports (Star, Enquirer, etc.) are actually based in truth. That was his example. So apparently the tabloids weren't fooled by him either--I wasn't aware of the reports at that time.

Now I'm wondering about a few others that seem 'fond' of homophobic humour... Someone above mentioned the Wayans brothers. I've seen Will Smith do it on his old show, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Is there something the Wayans and Smith aren't telling us?

[joeybee12]

19. Is it Keenan Wyaans who did the closeted gay guy in the Scary

Movie? One of them...and in parts it was funny, but it was just too much, and almost obsessive. Like you said, makes you wonder.

[bliss_eternal]

20. I didn't see Scary Movie--

I'm sorry. The Wayans humour escapes me. The only thing I've watched by a Wayans is I'm Gonna Get You Sucka.

[sui generis]

25. HAH! didn't know about that

hey, chlamydia (among others) in the gay community didn't come from gays Eddie - that was one of your cooty monsters on the high-up.

:P

[readmoreoften]

15. Really simple.

We were a joke in the eighties. We were the butt of everyone's jokes. I remember being a young teenager and seeing gay men on Sally Jesse and Oprah as if they were circus freaks. I hoped I'd be one of those dykes who could "keep it to myself."

[kweerwolf]

16. Back in the '80s we WERE freaks ...

... at least as far as the mainstream media was concerned.

But what a difference a couple of decades can make. Now we are so mainstream that talk shows like Oprah present gay issues in a mostly positive light and it's our hateful opposition who gets the loudest hisses and boos.

To be considered a "freak" now days a gay person would pretty much have to go on Springer and confess to living in a polyamorous relationship with a dozen other people and a shetland pony.

It kind of reminds me of the Quentin Crisp quote:

In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their address they eventually live in the metropolis.

[gator_in_Ontario]

17. thanks for the laugh

shetland pony....omg :rofl:

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. If only.

>>>>To be considered a "freak" now days a gay person would pretty much have to go on Springer and confess to living in a polyamorous relationship with a dozen other people and a shetland pony.>>>>

Truly ... you should visit an urban high school, some day. You will be quickly disillusioned. Not much of the 'new and improved mainstream media' treatment seems to be trickling down to the bat-wielders of tomorrow.

Re. Oprah: the only out gays I've seen on her show in the last ten years have been giving fashion-tips to stay-at-home-moms.

This is an "expanding universe"?

[bliss_eternal]

21. Re: Expanding universe

and Oprah--she likes to think she is progressive, but I find her quite the contrary.

She did have the author of The Down Low book on, but he's in the closet. Oprah tried to call him on it by pointing out that he's admitted to enjoying sleeping with men. Though he admitted that, he would't own that this equated to his being gay--it was a sad show in that regard. Having a closeted gay man on her show hardly helps awareness and educating the public at large about what this admin., the fundies, etc. want to deny an entire segment of the population.

That's as far as I've seen her go. She can't even deal with interracial relationships in a progressive or contemporary manner. Our relationships have been legal in this country for years, and have been part of the norm for a long, long time and O still talks about them like they are 'taboo.' :eyes: It's embarassing--for her.

[Cherry Blossom]

22. Actually, concerning Oprah

She did do a show featuring one of the gay members of her crew discussing his experience with the huge Tsunami of 04 and how he lost his partner and didn't know if he was alive or not. I remember thinking how nicely it was done because the issue wasn't with the fact that his partner was a man but simply that he had lost someone he dearly loved.

[bliss_eternal]

23. That sounds like

an interesting and well done show--I'm very sorry I missed it. Thank you for telling me about it. I have a terrible bias against o, so it's nice to know that she's done at least one positive show in this regard.

[sui generis]

24. I never thought of it as homophobic

I haven't heard all the material, but it seemed to me like he was poking fun at homophobic stereotypes in some of those jokes,

"it's some embarrassin shit to get yo ass beat by a faggit!" was poking fun at macho idiots who think like that, not gays.

I dunno - I might also be too understanding. I've never thought of Murphy as a homophobe.

Cho and Griffin have a different take as female comedians, and a different "spin" on those jokes. Socially it's as easy for a woman to compare herself to gay stereotypes as it is for a man to contrast himself to a gay stereotype.

I think of comedy as letting someone tickle you in the ribs. Some people take it as tickling, some people take it as assault. Some people laugh, and others get a lawyer and sue.