Where are the GLBT people of color?

[freestyle]

I'm just posting this because it seems that we are the invisible multiple minorities. Gloria Hull wrote a book on Black women called All the Women are White. All the Blacks are men. But Some of Us are Brave. The same thing applies to GLBT people of color. It could be retitled All the Gays are White. All the Blacks are Straight. But Some of us are Brave.

It just annoys me no end to read about the alleged higher homophobia among communities of color, but then no GLBT people from those communities are interviewed. Oprah will talk to closet cases and DL brothers, but I have yet to see couples raising children. Maybe I missed it. You'll hear from HRC or NGLTF, but not the National Black Justice Coalition or LLEGO. And it happens here too. If you don't know ask somebody. Atleast you will get a few diverse views. I'm rambling and ranting, but the invisibility is tiring.

So, where my fam at? I know we're here.

[Dark]

1. From what I've heard, blacks tend to be more opposed to gays

than whites. So, I could understand why so many black gay men want to hide.

Plus, they're fighting against several stereotypes.

[liontamer]

3. I think you're confusing class with race

working class communities are generally more openly against homesexuality than upper middle class communties.

I know lots of out and proud gay black men but the ones who are happiest are often upper middle class. Money and education make a big difference in this instance

[freestyle]

7. The class angle is an important point. Thanks.

In addition to the education and income of the family and community mattering, so does the education and income of the individual. Both have to do with having less to prove to other people and confidence of the ability to succeed in spite of discrimination. It is a lot easier to be out if you know that you can make it most places you go and that if you face discrimination, you can get another job, residence, etc. because you are highly qualified and can afford it.

I learned growing up that Black people have to be better to get the same opportunities. Sadly this is still true, and truer still if you are GLBT.

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Different community support systems, or the lack thereof

In my experience as a gay man who's been out more than half my life, a big part of the problem is community support systems, in both the gay community and the larger community from which a person comes.

A gay Black man is more likely to face hostility from family and community if he comes out than a gay white man. In large part, this has to do with black communities centering more on religious institutions than white communities, and with that comes more of the religious oppression of homosexuality. Similarly with Asian gay men, who come from a culture that places very heavy emphasis on family and where anything that would stop a man from marrying and raising children is a grave insult to his father and male predecessors. Latino gay men have to deal with both religion and family.

Also, minority communities generally face an "us against them" separation from society as a whole, causing more internal camaraderie. This dependance on one another against outsiders imposes strong pressure to conform to "the group"; that, in turn, makes it much more difficult to break outside of the norms of the community. This is one reason why some groups generally do poorly in school: it is not that people don't want to do well, but they live in a culture where doing well is perceived as meaning that you have sold out and turned your back on your group.

Another consideration for minority gay men is the lack of an organized support network. Minority women have a much easier time coming out, as there are many different women's groups and most of them are accepting of lesbians. You may have noticed that the prominent non-white gay leaders have tended to be women; that is why. There are no male equivalents to the university Women's Studies Center or local chapter of the NOW. There are some groups for minority gay men, but they tend to operate more as fetish/social groups than as a support group for people coming out, which can be pretty intimidating. And in most of America, gay support groups tend to be overwhelmingly white, because whites make up the largest group in the country and because minorities face more societal and community pressures to "not be gay." Minorities who do go to gay support groups usually find no one who can identify with their more specific problems, which, again, tends to discourage them from returning.

[Ally McLesbian]

12. You nailed it

I'm Asian, and I'm MTF lesbian. And I can definitely vouch for the conformity and family honor that the Asian community requires of me. (Add fundamentalist Christianity for Koreans.)

They are further baffled that I am going through the pains of transgender transition only to continue liking women and be a lesbian. Such things just don't happen in Asian societies; MTF transgenders are just hyper-feminine gay men "back home," even in transgender-friendly Thailand.

I will agree that women's and feminist groups tend to be more accepting of nonwhite gays than men's groups, which dabble in the white male superiority mentality, and dismiss nonwhites (especially Asian men) as fetish objects and no more. But for me though, being trans adds another layer of complexity, as there are a few women's spaces where I won't be welcome.

And the worst thing: white gays tend to dismiss nonwhite homophobia, claiming that because nonwhites are the oppressed, they cannot possibly be hatemongers. This is WRONG. Nonwhites are every bit capable of homophobia, racism, and other hate as whites, and here in SoCal, Latino and Asian immigrants are the worst homophobes of all, and I hardly encounter any white homophobia.

[liontamer]

4. a lot of people are invisible

especially if they don't confirm to stereotypes. People like to pretend you don't exist if you don't fit their worldview.

Hence femme invisibility and bi invisibility. I can scream from the rooftops that I'm bisexual, but most people would rather think of me as gay or straight, depending on who I was dating when they met me.

If you don't fit people's little boxes they ignore you. That doesn't mean we aren't out there, just that nobody really sees fit to highlight our existence.

but anyway,

:hi:

[closeupready]

5. They aren't generally as accepting; ergo, more closet cases.

Just because you meet lots of them at bars or clubs doesn't mean they're willing to be visible.

[closeupready]

6. Whitey here went once to group for gays fr. India; boy, was that a mistake

I was told, in front of the entire assembly, that I was not welcome there, even as an observer, even if I was an Indian person's guest. (Kind of felt that this was more about eliminating competition for tricks as opposed to anything else.) That the group was for gay Indians or gay ethnic Indians ONLY!

[liontamer]

8. i've heard of some bizarrely closeted indian people

if they are from very conservative indian families the level of in group ness they need to feel comfortable is shocking even for closted westerners. It's like their closets need to also be in a room with darkened curtains on a house down an abandoned lane.

[closeupready]

9. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, at the time, I was mad, but upon reflection,

I realized that 1) I was physically intact (LOL :D ); and 2) the desire for exclusion was a product of a deeply homophobic culture. Even though, strangely, I'm not aware of much homophobic violence in India.

[liontamer]

10. there isn't much violence because in most places everybody is closeted

in magazines being closeted is encouraged. There are exceptions obviously, but these are mostly educated people who live in urban areas

[closeupready]

11. At one time, there was a website devoted to gay life of some Indian city

Calcutta or Jaipur or somewhere, I forget now - the site closed down several years ago in the wake of the tech bust (when easy money for websites dried up), but there was a short essay in the "About Us" section written by the site's owner/master/whatever, and essentially, it was this really irritating defense of a sort of de facto separate-but-equal system India has going on between gays and non-gays - like, "oh, we gays of India know that we're second-class and that's just how we like it - yum-yum, we don't want to be screechy American gays, please do discriminate against us, pretty please" etc. LOL :D

I laugh about it now (I even wonder if it was even set up by an authentic gay Indian - find that hard to believe), but at the time, during a period when I was less comfortable with my sexuality, and when I was still trying to figure things out, it rubbed me the wrong way - it really depresses me that people think like that - how self-limiting. The influence of the caste system, perhaps.

[Ally McLesbian]

13. Self-segregation and degradation

I've seen it at MTF transgender communities in Asian and Asian-American communities. They keep considering themselves hyper-feminine gay men, and not fully women, because that's what the society dictates.

For them to assert their womanhood (and maybe lesbianism) like I do would be unthinkable.

Unfortunately, as long as they continue to see themselves as hyper-feminine gay men, they will never be the women they wish to be.