Why do so many believe being gay is a choice?

[Occulus]

I'm not talking about anyone here. I'm talking about the vast majority of Americans in general.

Most people think it's a choice. If they didn't, we wouldn't have these laws getting passed.

Where does this come from? Every gay person I've ever talked to (and this also goes for me) knew they were gay long before they were sexual in any way. So what gives?

Do Americans in general think all gay people are lying, in the same way, each and every one, all without actually knowing each other?

:wtf:

Why can't we convince people that twelve-year-olds don't make choices like that? Moreover, if being gay is "so harmful", why oh why do they think we're just refusing to choose otherwise?

I have barely left my apartment in five years. I'm scared shitless, and objectively, one could argue that I don't need to be. But I am. I can't even walk down the street of my hometown holding the hand of someone I love without fearing getting dragged off into an alley and beaten senseless.

In a country where I can be beaten bloody just for "looking gay", "walking gay", "talking gay", or any other perceived overt "gayness", who can blame me?

Moreover, this "choice" I made- apparently without actually consciously choosing anything- makes me a target for eviction, firing, being alone while lying in a hospital bed, and a whole host of other things seemingly designed to punish my "choice".

Well, WHAT CHOICE?

WHY do people believe this?

[Wetzelbill]

1. It isn't?

:)

No, you know, it's just pure ignorance. People think that it's unnatural so then, gosh, it must be a choice. Ignorance and bigotry will make a lot of people find any excuse to justify what they do not understand.

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. Either way, it makes no difference. We still have The Gay Agenda

bwaaaahaaahaaaaa!

http://cronus.com/agenda

:)

[Wetzelbill]

25. yes that massive all controlling monolith

striking fear into the hearts of good Christians and brothers and sisters who are also each others husbands and wives, lol.

[niyad]

2. because they are ignorant, brainwashed, fearful, and filled with the most

absurd nonsense about "the other". it is an appallingly sad commentary on the level of intelligence in this country that people believe--at ANY level, that homosexuality is a CHOICE--as though people would CHOOSE to be hated, vilified, beaten, killed.

[ropi]

3. i asked myself that question today

why do they think it's a choice?

they don't want to be responsible for harming another person if it's something inborn. they want to say it's a choice so they can continue their attacks and their evil ways. it takes the responsibility off of them.

[dickthegrouch]

47. I think it's because they have to keep choosing not to be gay

Let's face it there are a lot of extraordinarily beautiful people around of both sexes. If the 'phobes only justification for not being attracted to people of the same sex is really that they don't want to run foul of others who are as bigoted as they are, they have to make a choice.

In their minds, we must have made the opposite choice.

I have never met anyone who can truthfully answer "No" to the question (Please assume I'm talking to a straight man here) "Have you never met anyone who you wished was a woman because you think making love with them would be fantastic?". i.e. all men have met a man with whom they would like to have sex (if the man was a woman).

Kinsey was right, we are all on a spectrum of straightness to gayness and most are totally ignorant of that fact. It scares them senseless to have feelings that they don't know everyone else experiences.

Yet again silence = Death.

Education can only bring full understanding when it encompasses the full range of the subject.

[MuseRider]

4. I hate to say this

but there would still be laws like this passed even if they thought it was genetic. These people do not care about the rights of anyone different than they are. Do you think any of us who are not white, christian and male would have any rights if we had not gone through similar things that you are now? They have been forced to accept us. It is just your time now. And as the others went through it they had allies, you do as well but in many places we have not been organized yet.

I hate to hear about you being afraid. Nothing is right about that. I understand though, it is in the news all the time. It happened to my brother and he never really got over it.

I don't know why they believe what they do, they really never have made any sense to me but I don't think if they believed otherwise you would have anything other than what you are getting now. Bigots are bigots.

[Hissyspit]

5. As a heterosexual, I have always wondered that myself.

I don't recall EVER thinking it was a choice.

[madeline_con]

10. Before I found out it wasn't a choice....

I considered being gay the gay person's business. Freaking out or being afraid never crossed my mind.

I feel the same way now. :)

[madeline_con]

6. "WHY do people believe this?"

Because they are afraid.

I'm still trying to figure out WHY.

I asked coworkers why they are against gay marriage. The answers were:

"They'll start to come out of the woodwork."

"Everyone will want to be gay."

"It would glamorize being gay."

"It's just wrong.I mean, two guys?" (I assume two women are o.k.)

Like I said, I'm still trying to figure out WHY. :shrug:

[Hissyspit]

7. Those are some of the STUPIDEST statements I have ever heard

come from human beings.

[madeline_con]

15. They just don't seem very intelligent anymore. n/t

[Occulus]

9. Did you ask them WHY?

It would be interesting to see them turn verbal and mental cartwheels answering that...

[madeline_con]

12. The vacuous looks as the wheels spun....

made it obvious they were parroting some bull they'd heard from an ignoramus somewhere.

[ropi]

16. i'd have asked:

do you believe all americans are free to live life to the fullest? if they answer yes, then i'd counter with..why pass laws to limit freedoms? if two consenting adults of the opposite sex or the same sex wish to marry and live life to the fullest, why stop them?

[kweerwolf]

17. Here's more questions to make their heads spin ...

... those who think homosexuality is a choice, I mean.

This questionnaire is for self-avowed heterosexuals only. If you are not openly heterosexual, pass it on to a friend who is. Please try to answer the questions as candidly as possible. Your responses will be held in strict confidence and your anonymity fully protected.

1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

2. When and how did you first decide you were a heterosexual?

3. Is it possible your heterosexuality is just a phase you may grow out of?

4. Could it be that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of others of the same sex?

5. If you’ve never slept with a person of the same sex, how can you be sure you wouldn’t prefer that?

6. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react?

7. Why do heterosexuals feel compelled to seduce others into their lifestyle?

8. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Can’t you just be what you are and keep it quiet?

9. Would you want your children to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they’d face?

10. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexual men. Do you consider it safe to expose children to heterosexual male teachers, pediatricians, priests, or scoutmasters?


11. With all the societal support for marriage, the divorce rate is spiraling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?

12. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?

13. Considering the menace of overpopulation, how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?

14. Could you trust a heterosexual therapist to be objective? Don’t you fear s/he might be inclined to influence you in the direction of her/his own leanings?

15. Heterosexuals are notorious for assigning themselves and one another rigid, stereotyped sex roles. Why must you cling to such unhealthy role-playing?

16. With the sexually segregated living conditions of military life, isn’t heterosexuality incompatible with military service?

17. How can you enjoy an emotionally fulfilling experience with a person of the other sex when there are such vast differences between you? How can a man know what pleases a woman sexually or vice-versa?

18. Shouldn’t you ask your far-out straight cohorts, like skinheads and born-agains, to keep quiet? Wouldn’t that improve your image?

19. Why are heterosexuals so promiscuous?

20. Why do you attribute heterosexuality to so many famous lesbian and gay people? Is it to justify your own heterosexuality?

21. How can you hope to actualize your God-given homosexual potential if you limit yourself to exclusive, compulsive heterosexuality?

22. There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. After all, you never deliberately chose to be a heterosexual, did you? Have you considered aversion therapy or Heterosexuals Anonymous?

[ashling]

27. wonderful

:rofl:

[kahleefornia]

8. None of it makes any sense

Thinking its a choice, thinking that what some other person does in their personal life has ANY impact on your own, thinking there is some universal right and wrong to human behavior, etc etc.

I really don't get it.

Abortion - I understand how people can think that is wrong. I don't think so, but I can see the train of thought. But anti-gay?? Not to make you feel unimportant, but who the hell cares? Go like guys - like girls - like wearing yellow shirts - whatever! How would any of it affect anyone else? To the point they'd want to make LAWS against it???

No, of course it's not a choice. You are who you are. I wish you didn't have to be afraid. Someday.

[NanceGreggs]

11. Of course it's a choice ...

... just like I CHOSE to be a brown-eyed brunette, with a way-too-big ass, only five feet tall, and with the teensiest-tiniest tits you've ever seen in your life.

Seriously, I think it IS a matter of fear of something different and unknown. Over the past ten years or so, I have seen people completely turn around on what they think of gays and/or lesbians AFTER they actually got to know one or two -- through work, social groups, etc.

To admit that being gay is natural is, for many people, to admit that homosexuality is part of God's plan -- a notion which so-called religions have fought against for years. And too many sheeple are more afraid of their 'religious leaders' than they are of the truth. I have also witnessed a greater acceptance of gays in communities where the churches and synogogues have accepted gays, without reservation, as part of the religious community.

My parents aren't exactly the most liberal people in the world, but I always grew up knowing that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. I guess my parents did something right! Here's hoping more parents do the right thing by their children.

[Psychmd]

33. "teensiest-tiniest tits you've ever seen"....LMAO

[IntravenousDemilo]

39. Hey, Nance...

If you've got teensy-tiny tits, just keep smokin' that leaf under your name. They say it makes gents grow breasts (not that I've noticed any on me yet), so it might work for the ladies, too. And even if it turns out not to be true, don't let that harsh your buzz. But don't try smoking the leaf under my name -- it won't do anything except turn you into a Canuck.

:smoke:

[NanceGreggs]

43. If that hasn't worked after ALL OF THESE YEARS ...

... I doubt that it will have any effect now.

By the way, I'm an American living in Toronto -- where are you?

[IntravenousDemilo]

45. I'm in T.O. too

Transplanted from Regina these 13 years.

[Kurt Remarque]

13. simply misinformed and uncurious

much like chimp

[kweerwolf]

14. They only see it through their eyes ...

... and for a straight person to have sex with someone of the same sex if would have to be a "choice."

They can't imagine being attracted to someone of the same sex because they are "wired" that way ... and because they are heterosexuals and heterosexuals represent the dominant culture, therefore if you're not a heterosexual, it must be because you CHOOSE to engage in the icky sort of unnatural sex.

To assume that homosexuality is a choice to the epitome of heterosexism.

[ropi]

18. true true

you know... as a homosexual--i don't think about choosing to be with a straight man. i mean (no offense to the straight men who may read this) but some of them are really nasty...i don't see how some women want to be with them!

[Kindigger]

32. You must have met my ex somewhere

:yoiks:

[RoyGBiv]

19. That's a good question ...

I don't know if it has an answer.

The pseudo-scientific explanation is that it has to be a choice because humans are genetically programed to want to reproduce and that this is the only biological function of sexual urges; therefore, natural sexual/romantic desires are directed toward those with whom an individual can reproduce, i.e. the opposite sex. Don't bring actual scientific research to these discussions. The other idea to which I have been exposed most often involves the religious angle, i.e. "God says so." Obviously objective arguments won't work here at all.

I don't think either of these modes of thought truly explain how people react, however. I'm more inclined to agree with those who argue that the most bigoted people are having a negative psychological reaction that involves their own insecurities. But, this would take pages and pages to discuss.

It's interesting that this question arose for me to read. I had a discussion about "homosexuality as a choice" today with a gay friend at work. He has this lingering opinion that I'm closeted because of some superficial behaviors I exhibit. (I was raised by two women, am somewhat effeminate in my habits, and am flamboyant at times.) I explained to him today that I could no more choose to be straight than he could choose to be gay. I am what I am. These superficial behaviors, such as my enjoying speaking the word "fabulous" at volume and with a flourish (some things just feel right for certain situations) has nothing to do with it. He seemed to get that better than anything else I'd said.

I do think you're wrong about one thing though. I don't think the laws being passed or the failures to ensure civil rights for everyone has anything to do with people's opinion of choice. Non-whites never chose to be non-White. Not all that long ago, and in some places still today, White people took great pleasure in killing non-Whites simply for existing. Bigots don't require logic.

[ashling]

20. I am hetero, but I have a couple

of ideas.

I think that people who think this don't want to admit that it could have been them. If, they "reason," something entirely beyond your control, be it genetics, or whatever is what "makes" a person gay, then it could have happened to them - could still happen to them, maybe.

Also, if it is a choice, then they have made what they consider the correct one. If it is a choice, then they can pat themselves on the back.

Interestingly enough, not many hetero folks could point to the day they got up in the morning and said "hey, I think I am going to choose to be hetero."

Maybe that analysis is just as stupid as thinking it is a choice, but it seems like that could play into it.

As I said, I am hetero. However, my younger brother was gay (he died of aids in 1997) I know it is not a choice he made, just as being hetero was not a choice I made.

[Occulus]

22. I don't remember ever NOT being gay

even when I was very young I knew I was 'different' in a very fundamental way. I didn't even have the luxury of knowing HOW I was 'different'.

I've never- not once, ever- been even the slightest bit aroused by any woman.

How can anyone sane say I 'chose' anything?

[ashling]

28. Its really more

them saying they didn't choose it rather than you did. Makes no sense either way. They are still wrong.

[begin_within]

21. Because behavior is a choice. Desire is not, but behavior always is.

[Occulus]

24. I don't really know what to say to that,

but it doesn't sound all that friendly to gay people.

[undergroundpanther]

29. Behaviors are a choice..

Than an evangelist should shut his pie hole when I say I don't want his god in my life. An evangelist can CHOOSE to quit dominating others and thumping his bible right?

All religion is a CHOICE,

Sexual BEHAVIOR is chosen up to a point.
Our bodies(regardless of orientation) and minds seem to get benefit from sexuality it has a drive for it,for a reason..
So in the Christian "choicers argument" It appears to them if you are not hetero oriented,and you choose to be non sexual,that is they choice these narcissistic believers want to CHOOSE for you.

According to their imposition a gay person is not entitled to human sexuality, they will not get the physical and emotional benefits of sexuality and love unless they get the fundies permission first.That is what the"choice argument boils down to I think).The fundies chosen beliefs says one kind of sexual orientation deserves the benefits of sexuality and love of another person,and the others do not.And this is very narcissistic of the CHOOSERS of a fundamentalist religion,while there are many more options out there that enable the chosen believer to cope with others and handle change better ,religion wise.
Christianity or any other belief IS a choice.A choice to BELIEVE and let a belief system tell you how to live and who you are. Not everyone chooses that kind of belief to dictate to them all their lives.

There are MANY kinds of religions and all of them too often are foisted upon children at impressionable ages from parents before they even KNOW what they want to believe for themselves yet.Here a parent CHOOSES the religion for their child based in their own parental PREFERENCES to CONTROL how their child believes and behaves.When the kid gets older sometimes he makes a different choice than the parents wanted,and this upsets parents who became invested in controlling their kids by controlling their choices..

Gay people are sometimes hated by their fundie parents who CHOOSE to adhere to a religion over love of their own children.

Religion is a choice..Always. religion is not a bodily function. REligious choices only looks like it's not a choice because people don't FRAME religion in a CHOICE framework.Maybe they should start to?

Why do people CHOOSE to be Fundamentalist Dominionist bigot control freaks for?Why do fundamentalist Christians CHOOSE to act like assholes to people?

Could it be flaws in their personality,a mental aberration?? If it is they need help realizing they can't control the world,it is un American to choose to create second class citizens out of the Gay community, and it is neurotic to insist based on a CHOSEN religion that social change happens with their permission according to their CHOSEN bible..

[soothsayer]

35. But which makes you gay? The act, or the desire? To me, it's one's

intrinsic nature and proclivity (so more along the lines of desiring rather than doing).

I'll swear to you I'm a lesbian even when I'm not engaged in the very act.

[undergroundpanther]

51. It's you

And even though hypothetically you can choose to be non sexual, that for alot of people goes against nature.

If you think about it it is the fundamentalists that choose to go against nature because they choose that religion over reality than they choose to force others to be like them.

You are who you are. You can't choose that. However what the fundies are saying when they claim gay is a choice is you can choose to LIE about who you are.That's what they want you know,for you to pretend you are not lesbian so THE fundies feel in control like THEIR CHOSEN god ain't gonna condemn them.

But lying about your own nature,which if fundies were honest would cost you..Fi=undies if they were honest would have to realize how fucking stupid their choice of their unnatural religion is)All choices that come at a high cost. And for a gay person it's be honest or go back into the closet of LIES TO PLEASE OTHERS WHO LIE, that kills.

And living a lie or else..is not really a choice.No one is making free choices if they are made under threats of harm,closets or hell.. I wish the fundies realized their choice of god is not natural or sane for everyone.Choice is the right to say NO,I reject your god, too.Choice is what makes us free.And gay people can choose freedom to be honest or to be in the closet to please bullies who choose to abuse others for control.

So it is the fundies who choose to go against nature,and because thier'nature' is to be so narcissistic and controlling of others lives they assume by yammering about chosen behaviors we need their permission to be who we are..That is bullshit.

We can tell them to shut the fuck up and deny them the "authority" they crave when they try to tell us what a choice is..

It is when gay people are most vulnerable and suffering from abuses they do not have the power and support to resist the rigid religious narcissists choosing to defy reality with religion and say NO asshole you cannot make my choices for me.


This is the underlying "choice" fundies want to force..
Gay folks can choose to either lie about our own orientations and deny who we are and go back in the closet or be forced.
This THREAT is what this whole choice bullshit is about.

Remember we do not have to make the choices based on what these narcissistic fundies want us to do or else. Our freedom to BE and to choose that is what the fundies don't like,our FREEDOM

They HATE that we are not choosing what THEY would want us to choose that makes THEM comfortable .They want gay people to not exist. And I dunno about you,That choice is NOT A CHOICE I want to make.

[undergroundpanther]

26. Ok is BISEXUALITY a choice?

Because when I am with hets they seem to assume I am choosing to be gay,But when I am with some gays they seem to assume I am lying to myself about my gayness..Looks like a double standard,here.

Bisexuality is not a choice but niether is gay or straight a choice. You are what you are.But at the same time the appearance of an orientation can look like a for any one can choose to lie about ones orientation as easily as tell the truth about thier own orientation..

Many times I was tempted to pretend I was 100% gay so the gay community would not reject me as some dishonest about my own desires dyke .Other times I pretended to only like men even tho I think some dykes are awesome...

I was tempted to do this lying shit to please my partners and avoid rejection.I chose not to lie and I told them I am bisexual, and transgender and this has led to ALOT of heartbreak. I am a FTM attracted to men and masculine/strong women ,sorta like a gay guy in a female body.(and gay guys have fallen for me,and I have to tell them I lack the plumbing they desire..and they ask how long until you get your penis? and I say I don't know.. that makes me really sad to have to say that,but that is the price of honesty....

It irritates me that so many people assume FTM are mostly lesbians,or het men in woman bodies...I am off the charts different and I never chose this but I have spent masny years choosing to pretend I was not myself.And that is where the illusion of"choice" comes from.To outside observers it appears as choice,inside it is a repression of your own reality..

[UncleSepp]

46. Bi and gay FtMs's arent all that off the chart

I don't think it's a choice at all. I remember choosing to not give a crap about labels that had become too confusing. Straight? Gay? Bi? How do I tell, and with respect to what identity - the mind, or the body? I don't remember having made a choice to fall in love with men, or women. I just remember falling in love with them.

:: big smile :: You've got some company in your corner of the chart. I sure wish we were in the same corner of the country, I'd love to meet you for a beer sometime.:pals:

[NMMNG]

30. Because that way they can hate you and discriminate against you for it

If they consider it an inborn trait they can't, or at least can't do so with a clean conscience.

[Meldread]

31. Don't be afraid. Don't let them win. Be fearless.

I don't know where you live, but I live in the State of Virginia. Here it is illegal for two adults of the same sex that are not of the same family to enter into a legal contract. This measure was passed in order to discriminate against gays, to discourage gays from moving to Virginia, and to try and force existing gays in the state to leave. We do not yet have a Constitutional Ban on gay marriage in our state, though I am certain that if such an amendment were to be up for vote it would pass as easily as it did in Texas.

In my local newspaper the editors regularly rail against gay people, among other groups such as immigrants (in particular those who are Hispanic) and liberals in general. More than a few times there have been serious anti-gay letters published in the paper, containing such colorful descriptions of us such as "Children of Satan" and "Sodomites".

I wrote a letter openly defending a local pastor who was supportive of gays and was horribly criticized. That was about two years ago and my mail box is still vandalized from time to time. Other times, when I had to actually be forceful and the likelihood of violence on me or my family almost certainly probable I've had friends out of state send letters that I've written to the paper addressed under their name.

The point of this is... you cannot allow them to win by living your life in fear. They are horrible, evil people, and yes they may try and harm you. ...and yet... they are already harming you every single day without ever having to lay a finger on you. They are controlling your life, they are causing you to be afraid, and they are accomplishing exactly what they set out to accomplish.

Don't let them win. Be fearless, and if something bad happens then you'll deal with it. You are strong, and you will be surprised at what you can overcome. We are all stronger than we give ourselves credit for, and it doesn't become readily apparent until it is time for that strength to be tested. Don't let them win, go and live your life. Join a group to make friends, so that you don't feel as alone. You owe it to yourself to be happy, and to not live a life of fear because of sick and twisted people.

:hug: :pals:

[Occulus]

36. Oh, I'm *very* familiar with the damage that can be done, even by

one's own family.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=386457

That's a post- one of several I've written in the past couple years- detailing what my own family did to me as a result of finding out I'm gay. Something that happened many years ago, and from which I am still healing.

Some of those wounds will probably remain open. I think I need to just accept that there will never be any sort of apology or "restitution" by people like this. They'll be proven wrong and slink away, never bothering to try to undo the damage they've caused.

These are the same types who demand of wrongdoers that they "make up" for what they did. Hypocrites? Oh, my, yes. After so many years being told that I have to fix my mistakes, those same people refuse to fix theirs. It really makes me wonder if that "requirement" was nothing more than a lie in the first place.

i think the saddest part of all of it is that I never got to realize the full potential of the abilities I was born with, because of people like this. Oh, I got a taste of what I was able to do- just enough of one to understand that I was capable of a whole lot more. Just smart enough to know exactly what kind of tools and help I needed to realize that. It didn't help to be told- by these people- that they knew I had those abilities from before I ever started school (kindergarten, to be exact).

I guess my next question is, why do people like this go out of their way to destroy our lives, even when we prove we have something to offer?

[Meldread]

44. Because, that's just how some folks are.

I was going to respond to your other thread, then noticed it was posted back in 2003! I'm very sorry for what you have gone through, and to be perfectly honest - I wish I was there to give you a hug. I'm not going to lie and say I know exactly what you have gone through, but I know what it is like to have abusive family members.

I also know what it is like to be angry and full of hate all the time. You have to learn to let go of it, because in the end it doesn't hurt those you hate it only hurts yourself. That's the sad truth - we fool ourselves into thinking that if we hate strongly enough we can somehow pass the pain we've been dealt back to those who dealt it to us. It doesn't work, though, and the hardest thing is just letting it go.

We cannot make someone into what we want them to be, and we cannot change the past. Even if all those who have wronged us over the course of our lives apologized, it still wouldn't undo anything they've done.

I never knew my Grandfather on my Mother's side of the family as he died when my mother was around 10 years old. I am thankful for that, because he was horribly abusive. He was an alcoholic, raped most of my Aunts, and would have raped my mother too had he not died of a heart attack.

My Grandmother on my Father's side died this year. She was a horrible woman, someone who sounds to be much like your mother. She looked me dead in the eyes and told me that no one would ever love me, and that I wasn't worth a damn thing. She had cancer and at the time I was staying with her, the only person who would, and taking care of her. I wasn't doing it so much for her as for my Father, as she was quite undeserving of help, and was horribly abusive to me, to him, and to my mother.

My Father spent thousands and thousands of dollars on her, doing whatever he could to make her last year comfortable. Yet in the end she did nothing but belittle him and make false accusations against him. She got so angry at me, for trying to prevent her from falling down the stairs and breaking her hip or neck and for fixing her car so it wouldn't start that she had the police escort me from her home. She was attempting to drive after the doctors said she couldn't, not with the medications she was on. I wasn't about to allow her to take someone elses life just because she couldn't accept hers was over.

My Grandmother and I ended on bad terms. The last time I saw her alive was as I was packing up my things being forced to leave by the Police. Despite her hatefulness and bitterness, I do have the small regret that I never got a chance to see her before she died. Not because I truly cared, but mostly because I know how it hurt my Father when I refused... and the fact that I know I was a better person than to let my pride stand in my way of making some sort of amends.

The point of this is... we don't get to pick who our families are when we grow up. That is forced on us, as are their actions. A lot of people have horrible families, but you know what? In the end we choose who is in our family. If we don't like the family we have, we can always go out and make our own or find another one.

I am sorry for all the pain you have experienced. It was unfair and horrible, you had no control over what happened. Now you do. I know what it's like to relive the past over and over again... it's like picking at a scab - a wound that just won't heal. I carry the scars of growing up as well in the world, hell I still have nightmares about some of the things... that's why I'm wide awake right now. ...but you know what? We have to learn to pick up and move on. We cannot allow those who have hurt us in the past to continue to hurt us now. We have to find a way to let go, not to forget, but to find some semblance of peace for ourselves so we can move on.

I hope you can find some measure of closure. Maybe it'll only happen once your mother is dead, although I have a feeling that even after she is gone you'll be left with bitterness and resentment still. What has happened in the past has happened. Nothing can change it. I just hope for your sake you can find a way to move on and be happy, and stop letting the ghosts of the past haunt you.

Here is a big e-hug. :hug:

[IntravenousDemilo]

41. Two non-related adults of the same sex aren't able to enter into ANY

contracts? Even to sell a car? Even for business? Even for, dare I say, contract work? That seems a little harsh and counterproductive. How does anything get done in Virginia?

[MountainLaurel]

49. yes and no.

Any contracts where their role would be equivalent to a family or marital relationship: Buying a home together, power of attorney, things like that.

[freestyle]

34. It makes the hate a little easier.

But, race and gender are clearly inborn traits and that fact has not stopped racism and sexism. Religion is clearly a choice, yet it is a protected category. We GLBT folks should not get our hopes up that some incontrivertible proof that sexual orientation is not a choice will make one bit of difference.

Also, even though I'm convinced that orientation is not a choice, how we act on it is, and that is what they want to oppress us for. The hate diminishes as people know GLBT people as family, friends, and neighbors whose humanity is every bit as valid as theirs.

[election_2004]

52. Religion is NOT necessarily a choice....

I'm a polytheist (always have been, even when I masqueraded as a "Good little Catholic" as a kid) - - and I cannot will myself to believe in monotheism (one supreme deity) or atheism (lack of the supernatural).

[BR_Parkway]

37. Actually, I think for those most vocally saying it is a choice - it was

for them. If you agree with Kinsey's sexuality scale:

• 0- Exclusively heterosexual
  
  1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
  
  2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
  
  3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual
  
  4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
  
  5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
  
  6- Exclusively homosexual

then you've got the bisexuals in slots 2, 3 and 4 - those of us who have always known we were gay and have been since any awareness are 6's (with a few 5's like myself who were trying so hard to be str8, if I could only find the 'right' woman) and the 0's are the very comfortable in who they are straight folks who look around and wonder why anyone's worried about what the gay people are doing, it's no sweat off their backs, live and let live.

Then you've got the 1's - who at some point in their live had an attraction to someone of their own sex (and maybe even acted on it!!) and it scared the hell out of them and they CHOSE to never act on those feelings again (but has fueled many a fantastic masturbation session over the years, which continues to feed the guilt).

Most of them had to turn all that repressed sexual energy into some endevour, so they stumbled into a fundamentalist church who was more then happy to take away their guilt, blame it on the devil if you will - but you are no longer responsible and don't need to feel ashamed! The more they backslide by finding another of the same sex attractive, or actually having a fantasy (or a reality in some sleazy park or mall bathroom) the more vocal they have to get against gays. They KNOW what the rest of us feel and think and do - because they have first hand knowledge that they project on everyone else around them.

I would hazard a guess, not backed up by any scientific study, that the 1's think about gay sex more often than all the 2-6's combined!

[terrya]

38. They're imbeciles.

Seriously, that's the only reason I can think of.

[Guy Fawkes]

40. I think we need to ask a different question:

Why are all the smart people leaving the United States?

[kweerwolf]

42. To get away from all the dumb ones ...

... who think we chose to be gay. ;)

[foreigncorrespondent]

48. Because they believe...

...heterosexualality to be the only natural form of sexuality and that anything else is a choice because it is against nature? :shrug:

Regardless of whether or not it is a choice they shouldn't be discriminating against us for making that so called "choice." We don't discriminate against them for making the choice to eat roast beef for dinner.

[spancks]

50. You know what?

I can't remember ever NOT being gay, either. But I don't give a shit if it's a choice or not. This is America and if I somehow 'choose' to be gay, big fucking deal - that's my right, isn't it?

Xtians get all kinds of special protections for themselves; and the last time I checked, religion was a choice.

All I'm saying is *of course* it's not a choice, but even if it were, is shouldn't make any difference in the 'land of the free.'