Like it or not, religion is strongly intertwined with the struggle for gay rights.

[yardwork]

The vast majority of people who oppose equal rights for gay people use religion as their excuse and rationale. The organizations that are spending millions of dollars to oppose equal marriage, repeal of DADT, and workplace protections are religions organizations, notably the Catholic Church,Mormon Church, and a powerful network of evangelical fundamentalist Protestant churches.

Parents who kick their children out of their homes and families use the bible as their justification. Nations that imprison and even execute gay people invariably use religion as the reason.

Does this alone mean that all religion is wrong? Does it mean that God doesn't exist? I don't think so. Those questions are bigger than the fallible, weak behaviors of human institutions and their human leaders.

I believe in God. I respect the words and example of Jesus. I recognize that, very slowly, some religious denominations in the U.S. are becoming accepting of the rights of gay people, led by the brave leaders of individual churches. I recognize the many good works that many religious people do and have done for thousands of years.

I also respect the experience and feelings of people who reject religion because of the ongoing behavior of too many of the religious.

Words on a message board are not equivalent to being emotionally and physically abused because of your sexual orientation, as so many gay people have been. Words on a message board are not equivalent to being systematically discriminated against, as every gay person in the U.S. and most of the world continues to be.

If your feelings are hurt because somebody said something rude about religion, use that energy and mobilize that hurt to carry an urgent message back to your church that they need to do more to protect the rights of all people. Jesus had his emissaries. They didn't find it easy to tramp around the Mediterranean carrying an unpopular message to people who didn't want to listen. It's not easy to talk to a congregation and get them to change their attitudes toward gay people. Consider it as a difficult task that is worthy of Jesus.

[VWolf]

1. Religion is just the vehicle used by some

to enforce their world view on others. I always felt that religion, by itself, is not a bad thing, but organized religion often is.

[Zenlitened]

2. Excellent, excellent post.

...Words on a message board are not equivalent to being emotionally and physically abused because of your sexual orientation, as so many gay people have been. Words on a message board are not equivalent to being systematically discriminated against, as every gay person in the U.S. and most of the world continues to be.

If your feelings are hurt because somebody said something rude about religion, use that energy and mobilize that hurt to carry an urgent message back to your church that they need to do more to protect the rights of all people...

:applause:

[roguevalley]

3. actually, you can slam religion until the cows come home. they

earn enmity. I don't believe God does or did. He created us all -however you might visualize that- to be who we are supposed to be. We are perfect the way we were created. Screw anyone who prioritizes people according to their prejudices. God said, "Love one another as you would love yourself" and "Judge not lest ye also be judged." That is what I believe.

[William769]

4. Can you please elaborate on this?

"Words on a message board are not equivalent to being emotionally and physically abused because of your sexual orientation". I understand the "emotional" part but not the "physically" part.

[yardwork]

5. You don't understand that many gay people are physically abused because of their sexual orientation?

I'm not sure what to say. There are headlines here all the time about gay and transgender people being attacked and killed because of their orientation.

[William769]

7. I read it to mean physically abused from being on a message board.

I didn't understand what that meant thats why I asked if you could elaborate. Thanks for the clarification, now I understand.

[yardwork]

8. I meant that words on a message board are completely different and not equivalent to abuse in RL

[TriMera]

6. See Uganda and South Africa. n/t

[RKP5637]

9. I'm not a religious person at all, but your post made sense to me, imagine if

everyone felt as you, it would make the world far better! Thanks for posting this. n/t

[yardwork]

18. Thank you!

[Jamastiene]

10. Agreed. Also,

it would not hurt for those who are Christian to realize that a person who has been tormented in the name of God are coming from a place of immense pain. It is best not to take anything they say personal. It is best to understand where their negative feelings toward religion are coming from and not get too worked up about it. In reality, what they are saying is not really directed at you. It is directed at those who tormented them using religion, even if they do not say so. Through the pain, they cannot see the difference yet. In time, with patience, they will come around.

I know this because I used to absolutely hate all Christians because of my torment, because of what some did to me. In time, I learned that not all Christians are about hate. Now, I understand and know the difference. I rail against those who use religion to torment gay people, but understand now, that there are Christians who do not hate gay people. Some of the most ardent gay rights allies that I have are Christian. They are about love, not hate.

Those who hate all Christians because of what a few did to them? My philosophy on that is: Forgive them. They know not what they do. In time, when they heal, then they will understand too.

[yardwork]

14. Yes, you say that very well.

When I came out as gay, every single Catholic person that I know was strongly supportive. Their words and behavior were in marked contrast to the words and behavior of the Catholic power structure.

[Divine Discontent]

11. found that most Christians I knew were open-minded once I told them I was gay. The bigots were out

of my life, mostly, quickly. A few I let straggle along until I could take no more of their subtle bigotry and quick talking to them. But, most fellow Christians are open-minded. Some are just afraid to say, 'why does it matter if someone's gay?" because half or more of churches preacher's say it's wrong. It's not wrong. Jesus never questioned Gay romance. Jonathan gave up the throne to David, and King David then said upon Jon's death, "my love for you surpassed my love of women".



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[yardwork]

15. Good to remember the passages in the bible that support gay love.

[Zorra]

12. Fundy bigot slayer ready for duty here. Semper fi.

Point me in the right direction and I'll rip them a new one.

[yardwork]

16. You are the best!

[Irishonly]

13. Organized Religion does no one any favors

I don't blame the anger, if that's the correct word, on anyone. When I read about experiences people have had I become horrified and angry. The difference is I have never had to face outright hatred for being me as many here have. I do know that justifiable anger is almost impossible to deal with and if the same injustices keep hitting you in the face I don't know how you deal with it.

So many people use religion to hide behind their ugliness and their hatred. I thought Buddhists may have been exempt but I was reminded of monks that will torture those who do not believe the same as they do. I don't know the answer. My evangelical sil thinks I am on the fast track to hell because of my belief that we are all equal and religion has no place in the government. She thinks my whole church is like that. I would rather be with them than her.

I am sorry for all of the pain religion has caused you. I will keep supporting you and working for your rights.

[yardwork]

17. Thank you for every human being who deserves equal rights. Thank you.

[Irishonly]

19. I wa taught that we all walk the path of life together

We cannot stop fighting the just fight. I still believe that good wins over evil and that justice will prevail. I just wish it would hurry.
Anne

[ruggerson]

20. Great post. I guess I make the distinction between spirituality and organizied religion

I respect and admire most people's individual and private spirituality.

Organized religion, otoh, has been responsible for many, if not most, of the horrific events throughout history that represent the underbelly and brutality of mankind.