CafePress.com Innocent mistake or downright homophobic?

[foreigncorrespondent]

Today, I toodle over to CP to see how my store is doing. After the usual check of everything I decide to take a gander in the marketplace. Today, I decide to check out the LGBTIQQ section and what hits me in the face straight (pun intended) up?

If you believe partner preference and lifestyle is a personal choice, gear up to get the word out on t-shirts, mousepads, greeting cards, and more.

Link: http://www.cafepress.com/shop/glbt

That is their official description of the LGBTIQQ section.

I do intend to shoot off a complaint email to them about this, as does Sapphocrat. But first, I would like your opinion on this.

I mean the use of partner preference and lifestyle? And they are having this as a description to a section which bloody well is meant to represent our community?

Yes I am downright angry, and downright offended by this.

[MADem]

1. Hmmmmmmmmm.....

Not being a member of the community, I can only comment from the perspective of an outsider.

Maybe they are referring to charming, delightful, hardworking folks, who, try as they might, cannot help but be attracted to that surly neocon next door??????

Is attraction to a cretin a choice? A lifestyle preference? Inquiring minds want to know!

[foreigncorrespondent]

9. Exactly MADem!

I was truly shocked when I opened the page and that jumped out at me.

I am tired of having to go into details about why these two phrases are such hot button issues with the LGBTIQQ community. But I guess it is going to be a never ending battle teaching about it. (Throughout my life anyway.)

[MADem]

19. Well, as an outsider, who had neighbors who were all of that

alphabet soup (short version: I lived, many, many decades ago--before GAY was even a word that meant anything other than happy, really, I think it was just starting to be 'queer' back then-- in a SHITTY neighborhood, crime ridden, crappy...and a bunch of gay guys--a few gals, but mostly guys--moved in, and the next thing ya know, it was a GREAT neighborhood--great shopping, great restaurants, nice apartments, a lot of urban renewal, reduced crime...blah, blah, blah! And no government intervention, just community activism) I just cannot understand WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

No one asked ME to participate in any "lifestyle" and no one changed my orientation by their mere proximity. No one got mad at me for having the odd member of the opposite sex over at my place for late night suppers and so forth. What DID happen is that if I had to go away on a mission for a week or a month, someone picked up my mail and fed the damn cat. My apartment never got broken into, nor did my car. My neighbors were NICE to me. What more could you ask for?

What is the problem with these folks who worry about what people do with their fiddly bits? I still cannot understand why anyone CARES? I swear, I get the impression that they do not like it because they feel they cannot do it...or something. Like if everyone cannot have ice cream, then NO ONE gets ice cream??? Hell, ya want it, go get it. And quit bitching about it!!! Sheesh!

I have just NEVER been able to understand the .... ANXIETY that seems to CONSUME some folks.

I was raised in Europe, though, I guess that must be it. I don't have the Freedom Fried brain...???? Oi!!!

[foreigncorrespondent]

22. MADem...

...if only more people were like you. You are one of the good people! :)

Thanks for sharing that story. That is what people don't realize. Without queers the world would be a lot less colourful.

[Sapphocrat]

2. You want to know what's most shocking?

CP is based in San Leandro, right across the SF Bay.

Meaning: I'm sure they do know better. Methinks some low-level butthole in IT made a point because s/he could.

I want feedback from others on your post before I raise hell with CP over this. I've gone over the same points so many thousands of times with so many thousands of buttholes, I don't even know where to begin educating people anymore.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. That is my guess as well!

I am surprised that no other queer has complained about this already.

Funny thing is, I was looking at their jobs the other day, and they did have a Web development job going. Maybe the jerk that did this, did do other things which CP received numerous complaints about?

[wtmusic]

3. How is it homophobic?

Sorry, I'm missing it.

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. See reply #6 (n/t)

[PinkTiger]

4. Maybe I'm insensitive, but help me out here:

I don't understand what you are upset about. The words "partner preference?" The words "Lifestyle choice?"
Do you mean you don't have a choice?
I guess that would bother me. Some religious groups are calling it a choice you make, implicating you just made the wrong choice, lol.
But actually, some of the T-shirts at this site are more disturbing than the words "preference" and "choice."
Backdoor Betty?? What is with that, anyway???

I think maybe the person designing the page is not gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with that....... (LOL)

[Sapphocrat]

6. Maybe you're not insensitive, but you are "desensitized"...

"Preference" and "lifestyle choice" are two of the most common hot-button phrases used by the anti-gay brigades to make it sound as if we just went queer one day on a whim.

It reinforces the idea that we're gay because it's just so darn much fun.

It's like implying that I had a choice about being white.

P.S. The "disturbing" shirts on the rest of the site are not the point.

[Cornus]

5. Neither

I think it's neither a mistake nor homophobic. To me what they are saying is that what I choose to do is MY choice and none of your business. Nothing more...nothing less...totally harmless.

[foreigncorrespondent]

12. I see where you are coming from...

...but I just cannot agree with it.

As mentioned above they are so close to Gay Mecca, they should know better.

These are two very hot button words in our community. To use them in this kind of way to describe our community is simply appalling.

[kweerwolf]

7. Maybe they are going for that trendy post-modern irony thing.

If so, I'd say they missed the mark.

I loathe the word "lifestyle" when it's applied to a sexual orientation. There is no such thing as "tha gay lifestyle." The only sort of defense I can see for their use of the word is that some of their products are geared toward specific "lifestyles" within the LGBT community; ie, lesbian softball, bears, drag kings, gay parents, etc.

"Preference" is also a loaded word and as such you'd think a company that close to the Gay Mecca would understand that. While I may have a preference for blond partners over brunettes, my ORIENTATION is for same-sex partners (and "perference" has nothing to do with that ... despite what the fun-D'uh-MENTAL-ists claim).

By all means, I'd suggest you contact the company and explain that you believe their choice of words for the LGBT section is inappropriate - especially for a progressive company. If you do contact them, please follow up and let us know what they say.

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. I certainly will keep this thread updated.

I intend to post my email here, after I write it. Plus any response I receive from them.

Thanks for your support kweerwolf. I really appreciate it. :)

[Dangerously Amused]

11. I think it's just poorly worded.

I think CafePress is pretty straightforward. I have never known them to intentionally insult their customers, and doing so would obviously be bad for business. I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

I read the first part of the advertising leader as more of "catchphrase" representative of the LGBTIQQ position in the forum itself, saying: "If you believe partner preference and lifestyle is a personal choice..." (like to me, that would be something on the front of a t-shirt, with the rest of the LBBTIQQ supportive statement on the back; and that is why it is separated in bold), and then in the second part Cafe Press saying to the LGBTIQQ/other customer, "...gear up to get the word out (that it isn't) on t-shirts, mousepads, greeting cards, and more..."

I understand your point and I agree it could be interpreted the opposite way. But I think it is probably an honest mistake, and a respectful correction would be met with sincere appreciation.

Just my two cents.

Good luck.



Edited for grammer.

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. Problem is...

..the emphasis you see here, has been added by me. To point out exactly what I am upset about.

The trouble I am having with this is, using two hot button (to the queer community) words to describe us, isn't actually doing us a favor.

I am giving them the benefit out the doubt. I like Sapph believe it was just some lackey who has done this simply because s/he could. And I am sure once pointed out to CP, it will be fixed up, and a letter of apology forwarded to anyone who complains.

[Dangerously Amused]

20. Ah. Got it.

Didn't realize you added the emphasis. Well then yeah, I definitely see your point. It could just be sloppy copy writing, using the word "choice" when the word "matter" might be a better fit, and/or the word "lifestyle" when the word "orientation" might be more appropriate. Which paraphrased, is to say: "If you believe (the matter of) your sexual orientation is nobody's business but your own... help get the word out... etc. "

Well, anyway. I would still give them the benefit of the doubt, and just presume that somebody they hired as a word processor who is ignorant as to the importance of wording in this particular area, or was just rushed and not paying attention, made a dumb mistake.

I know you are upset by the fact that this is either intentional or sloppy, but if it is UNintentional and just sloppy, you know... I would say don't stir up negative energy in your own life because someone else made a very dumb and hurtful, but nonetheless unintentional and honest mistake. I mean, obviously you'll want to politely point out the error, and if nothing else take satisfaction in the knowledge that you helped to educate someone who will likely never make that mistake again.

(I know, you get sick of having to "educate" people all the time... I don't blame you.)

Again, good luck.

[expatriot]

14. the question of whether it is choice or not is moot.... people should have

the same right to be gay whether they choose to be or not. I think it is wrong to let the right's argument against gay rights (it is a personal choice) define the argument in support of gay rights (it is not a personal choice, people are born gay). Why not just say "it doesn't matter whether it is a choice or not, people have the RIGHT to be gay either way."

[foreigncorrespondent]

16. Exactly that!

I couldn't agree with you more!

Thanks, Expatriot! :)

[kevinbgoode]

17. I'm offended also. . .

this sounds too easily like rhetoric from the religious Right.

[foreigncorrespondent]

18. Exactly that!

And that is why we are getting offended with it. It is because we have had the religious right tell us all our lives that this is a lifestyle, it is a choice we made, etc, etc, etc. I for one am sick of hearing it, and seeing it. And on a site like CP, it really isn't warranted.

Thanks for your input kevingoode. :)

[foreigncorrespondent]

21. UPDATE!

This is an exact copy of the email I sent to them.

Instead of making it harsh, I decided to go with polite first, to see what comes about.

Problem with a CP section description!

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you today to point out a rather grievous error in a section description, found in the CarePress market place today.

The description you have for the GLBT section of the CP community states: "If you believe partner preference and lifestyle is a personal choice, gear up to get the word out on t-shirts, mousepads, greeting cards, and more." Many in the GLBTIQQ community would take offense to this kind of description being written to describe our community.

The words "preference" and "lifestyle (especially followed by the word "choice") are hot button words with in our community. Those words have been used to demoralize our community from the religious right for a long time.

You cannot help how you are born. Being born isn't a preference. Living your life as you born to do so, isn't living a lifestyle. And falling in love with someone isn't making a choice. We cannot help who we fall in love with.

I request that the description in this section be changed to something which more describes the LGBTIQQ community, like "Proud of who you are? Then gear up to get the word out on t-shirts, mousepads, greeting cards, and more." I believe something along these lines would be more appropriate in a description of the LGBTIQQ community, than the hot button words currently used. And shows just how diverse CafePress truly is.

Thank you for taking the time to read my email.

Kind regards,

I contacted them through their contact page (link for anyone else considering sending them off an email:http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/cpcontact.aspx)

I figure if they shoot me back a poor response then I will get a lot harsher with them. But as I stated above, I believe some lackey has added this, and will probably get their ass kicked for it.

[kweerwolf]

23. I like that approach, foreigncorrespondent!

It allows them some "wiggle room" if it was just a dumb poor choice (there's that damn word again! LOL!) of wording on the part of some web site designer.

From all appearances, it sounds like a progressive company, so I'll be interested to see how they respond.

Heck, you might even get a free t-shirt out of it!

Best wishes!

[freeplessinseattle]

24. great letter, thank you for bringing this to our attention

It is almost ironic that they are using these two loathed terms to sound all understanding and supportive. At first I was ticked off and suspected that it was a not-so-subtle dig, but it is so obvious to us yet not so much, or at all, to some DUers that are more than likely not homophobic, just not too informed, or hadn't thought critically about it since "choice" is a common liberal buzzword.

Whenever I hear someone make a "choice" remark I ask them when they decided to become straight, and did they consider themselves bi until that moment? this confuses them and they'll usually say, "but I've always known", which easily leads into helping to illustrate that for one thing, they didn't make a "choice" to be straight, and that it really does not matter. Sometimes they'll even say "what does it amtter if I chose to be straight or not? the point is.." the point is they can make your point for you. It's fun. well, sometimes. kind of.

[closeupready]

25. Many heteros decline to answer the "choice question" as they wish to hate

gays and their "lifestyle choice" rather than be forced to think outside the box and thus accept what is the truth for most gays, which is that it is an immutable characteristic about which they - LIKE HETEROS - have always known.

[UncleSepp]

26. A sweet, wonderful, non bigoted friend of mine still wont give that up

I don't get him. He isn't homophobic, he treats men and women with equal respect, and is just an all around sweet person. However, he is adamant that homosexuality is a choice and does not have any biological component. He said that he would change his mind if it were scientifically proven, and when I started citing studies to him, he rejected each study. I was thoroughly baffled.

I think it may be a religious problem, in that he doesn't want to reconcile the difference between a God who doesn't make mistakes and a prophet who says that God doesn't want people to be gay. For people to have been created gay, somebody has to be wrong - there would be a lot of mullahs out there denying the real creations of God. The Koran would have mistakes in it, meaning that Mohammed had somehow misunderstood God. If he was wrong on that point, then what else is wrong? For him I suspect it's easier to accept that people aren't perfect and that people will make choices that aren't perfect, and then love those imperfect people all the same.

[wtmusic]

27. good call

and thanks for enlightening me on this topic

[PageOneQ]

30. CAFE PRESS SPOKESMAN SAID WILL BE FIXED TODAY

I've had a conversation with the PR department and they have assured me that the text will be changed today. They were sincerely sorry that the text may have offended members of the gay and lesbian community and from the tone on the phones calls, I believe them.

The last person I spoke with assured me that it would be changed and asked me to call him on his direct line if there were any questions after the change was made.

Mike Rogers
PageOneQ.com
blogACTIVE.com

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. And it has been!

Thanks so much for calling them. I would have done it, but being in Australia, it is a little harder for me to just pick up the phone and do it.

They have now changed it to: "Show your pride with this great gear. Get the word out on t-shirts, mousepads, greeting cards, and more."

Well my fellow gay DUers, this one we did win. :)

Thanks everyone for your help, support, and understanding. :)

FC

[davidinalameda]

28. I agree that phrasing is very odd

I don't like that either

[swimmernsecretsea]

29. I've heard many people use this to my dismay.

some who were trying to be sympathetic and understanding, others who were pulling back for a verbal punch. It's not accurate, and further, can be construed as insensitive and insulting. Why? Because it's very inaccurate. "Partner Preference and lifestyle is a personal choice" IS INCORRECT. Just the word lifestyle implies that someone one day decided to redecorate or pick up a hobby, and that just happened to be loving and being attracted to the same sex or living as a transgendered person. "Partner Preference" should be considered obvious for everyone. Everyone would, I hope, be with the partner they prefer!

This came into popular usage because right-wingers and religious conservatives used it in a covert attempt to apply nice language to something they were about to denigrate. It became picked up by news sources and, from there, found its way into common language. Whenever I hear someone use these types of phrases, I try to persuade them that it is an inaccurate description and not to use it. I've had people tell me that LGBT people also use these catchphrases. That's simply evidence of being misinformed or picking up the phrase from overhearing it.

Another example of an inaccurate phrase that is parallel is "pro-life." Nobody who is "pro-choice" (another phrase I dislike, but less) could be described as "pro-death." To do so is to subtly imply an insulting and harmful image on purpose.

There was an article I read which described the language use at length. If I find it I'll post it.

Go get 'em. I agree with you.

[Dark]

31. I think they may mean that it is somehting the government has no business

legistlating.

[xchrom]

33. i was born gay -- there's no preference.

any way -- i just want to kick this.