I don't get why suddenly the DADT poll is somehow justified because the troops aren't homophobes.

[readmoreoften]

If I asked the majority of Americans if they were okay with the inclusion of African Americans or Muslims in the military, would it be an outrage only if the majority of Americans said no?

The very question is offensive. The fact that so many troops are fine with LGBT inclusion has zero bearing on whether or not the poll itself is sickening.

[Rhiannon12866]

1. When my congressman was asked about DADT at a recent debate,

He compared it to Truman desegregating the military. It's just basic civil rights and long past time. I don't understand the prolonged discussion, or the delay in repealing it. :banghead:

[TheWraith]

3. The delay is Republicans.

Just like pretty much everything else worth doing.

[Rhiannon12866]

5. Yup. My congressman's Republican challenger didn't agree.

He said something about letting the military decide about this and not Congress, but his opinion was obvious. And he was, until recently, active military... x(

[Creideiki]

11. It's not just Republicans

Conservative Democrats like Jim Webb and others. I know it's uncouth to point out the stinking turd in the room, but there are stinking turds here.

[Laughing Mirror]

15. Webb did vote for the repeal in the bill, though, didn't he?

So sometimes a little window opens and clears a little of the stink out, if only for a while.

[EFerrari]

2. I don't get why they had to do yet another study

to show the troops aren't homophobes. Maybe they were only pinky swearing all those other times.

[TheWraith]

4. There is a useful legal role for this, actually.

The DADT statute constitutes an official finding of fact by Congress that homosexuality is bad for the military. To eliminate any chance that a similar policy could be put back in place the next time that there's a Republican Congress and White House, a contrary finding of fact based on new evidence can be put forward. Whatever reasoning you attribute to the Pentagon's original survey (and there's at least three possible answers that I can guess at) the data itself is highly useful.

[readmoreoften]

7. The data could have quietly been collected after a repeal was ordered.

Data is useful, of course. But this wasn't just a simple survey. This was put forth as a referendum on whether it was okay to think about proceeding towards civil rights, if that was okay with the troops. It's not the gathering of information that's the problem. It's that the gathering of the information was a political ploy that put rights up to an informal vote.

[tjwmason]

9. The best data will be available after repeal as well.

Any collected now will be speculation - after repeal there will be an enormous pile of information about how abolishing has not made the slightest difference to the military.

[EFerrari]

14. You keep posting this despite the fact that it has been pointed out to you

that there is already more than one study that shows the opposite making this one redundant where it wasn't incompetent. I even gave you a link to the 1993 Rand study.

They didn't need another study. They needed a delay for their own purposes. Not to mention, there is little value in a study that is organized as well as an internet poll, allowing one person to log in multiple times and take the survey.

[ruggerson]

17. A Republican congress with a Republican President will do whatever they want

they won't give a shit about a survey if it interferes with their agenda.

[Touchdown]

6. You know, I wrote that very long, and personal story.

Never even thought about how much I went through until I was halfway into writing it. All I wanted to do is inject a point of view that has been woefully absent in this DADT debate, that of gay and lesbian service members, and to try and appeal to the "just wait. It has to be done right" people that real lives are at stake and to be sensitive to that.

It didn't work. They are right at it again, praising the results and Obama's wisdom in commissioning it, then lecturing, paternalizing and mocking gay people for being alarmists last summer when it was leaked.

I give up!

[readmoreoften]

8. My mother watched a lesbian marine be openly beaten by a gang of male marines

in the 1950s. The other female marines watched through the window in horror. When I came out to my mother she always pleaded "don't end up like Shmitty!"

The politicking is gross. And there are so many on this site who are just venomous towards our existence because they perceive us as a "drain" on their political hero. I guarantee that many of these same people will support the new wave of anti-immigrant legislation on the table as well. They are the same people who can't understand why the French are outraged over their retirement being moved from 65 to 67 (it's only partial retirement in certain fields being moved from 60 to 62.)

These people have no concept of solidarity. And the truth is that without solidarity, there is no platform against fascists. And the Tea Party are a proto-fascist formation. You don't win by conceding to their prejudices and begging to maintain the status quo.

Your story was great. Thanks for writing it.

[Creideiki]

10. It's still an outrage

But as so many of our allies here at DU tell us (Thanks for coming to the LGBT forum allies! You really keep us in our place!), there are only two possible ways for DADT repeal to allow Obama to take credit and therefore only two ways that repeal (not implementation of open service) are acceptable.

[bullwinkle428]

12. What makes the findings important - NO MORE foot dragging

can possibly be excused on the part of our public servants!

Their final excuse just fucking left town.

[EFerrari]

13. I don't know. This one was bullshit, too.

If they need another one, they'll find one.

The real problem in the military isn't the troops but the Christo-fascist culture that has been cultivated and promoted by people high up in the chain of command. That's what creates a permissive environment for gay bashing and straight rape. imo.

Someone should do a study to see how much these fundie extremists are damaging "troop cohesion". **That's** the study that should have been done.

[Duncan Grant]

16. Anti-LGBT sentiment is insidious. (KnR)

Thanks for spinning that argument "up" and revealing it for what it is. :kick: