A repeal of DADT will get done despite Obama

[ruggerson]

I'm beginning to think that pressuring Obama on this is utterly pointless.

He will not issue stop loss orders while a bill is pending.

He will not use the bully pulpit to do anything more than to give mild lip service to a repeal (and even then, only when pressured).

He will not even formally endorse Murphy's house repeal bill.

So our political pressure should be on the House and the Senate to pass it regardless of the President's lack of involvement.

He will be forced to sign it anyway, since to do otherwise would be to renege on a campaign promise, and it will have happened without him doing any heavy lifting, thus he will not suffer the political blowback from certain constituencies with which he seems to be concerned.

I think it's time to move beyond criticizing Obama on this. It's not productive. He's made his position clear.

It's time to push Congress hard to get it done well before the middle of next year. If they wait till the midterm election season is upon us, we will have lost our window of opportunity.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cant trust em]

2. If there's anything we've seen from Obama up to now, it's that he likes to let Congress drive

We should be pressuring them.

[Betty Karlson]

3. Mr obama should be worried he's given up on.

It's the first stage of a debilitating disease called "Irrelevance".

[Prism]

4. I think you're right

Given how things are going, I think I may just take a page from his book in 2010 and 2012 by displaying the exact same enthusiasm for him as he has shown for us.

I promise to be a fierce advocate of Democratic campaigns in those years.

I may even comment about them on the internets.

[Toasterlad]

5. I'm Too Angry At Obama To Stop Criticizing Him.

No, I never believed he was "on our side". I've said pretty much from the beginning that Obama and Clinton were the two WORST candidates for gay rights we had to "choose" from. I don't feel "betrayed" by Obama.

But god damn it, the man is the President of the United States, he's supposed to be a Democrat, and he's supposed to be a smart, rational man. It is inexcusable and intolerable that he allows this bigotry to continue, and that he refuses to expend even the smallest effort to combat it. He deserves my fury and my disgust, and he's going to get it.

I agree with you that, if anything's going to happen, it's going to be Congress. But I think it's dangerous to let up on politicians just because they've made their positions clear. If the opinion is wrong, they need to hear about it. Even more so, their political comrades need to hear it, and realize that we ARE paying attention, we ARE angry, and there WILL be repercussions.

By the way, I'm not entirely convinced Obama WOULD sign a repeal of DADT. His blatant and apparently personal distaste for gay people and their issues seems to become less and less concealed every day. I used to think he was just indifferent to gays; now, I honestly wonder if he's not a full-fledged flaming homophobe.

[Prism]

6. I wonder sometimes

I cannot say what his personal feelings towards gays might be, but two things he did this year left serious impressions on me.

First, after the June DOMA fiasco, he had a handful of gay "leaders" at his office to sign the executive memo granting those very limited benefits to federal employees. If you can find the video, take a look. Look at his body language, his posture, the way he constantly looks down, how he's practically mumbling through it. It screamed "I do not want to be here doing this!" to me.

Then watch the speech he gave at the White House reception for LGBTers a few months ago. Has he ever latched himself to Michelle like that at similar events? The man was practically on top of her the entire time, as if he didn't want anyone to think "Hrm, he's talking to them. Bet he's secretly a homo."

Maybe his lack of action and the resulting frustration are coloring my views, but the more I observe his interaction with gay people on gay issues, the more I see a distinct insecurity and discomfort. Not of the overtly hateful homophobic sort. It's more in the vein of "I don't want anyone thinking I'm gay, too." I wonder if there's something in his upbringing that's being channeled there.

[ruggerson]

7. I've said before

I don't think they have any close gay friends. When he was asked by a reporter to name some gay people he knew and respected, he came up with a professor at college in the 1980's.

He mentions no gay friends in either of his books.

How he and Michelle managed to live so many years in an urban Chicago neighborhood and avoid having gay couples as friends is a mystery. But it seems they pulled it off.

On a very deep level, he does not get it. IF he did, he could not have let DADT continue during his Presidency. It would have been far too much of a human rights injustice for him to allow on his watch.

[Prism]

8. It is a little strange, given where they lived

Not only is Rev. Wright's church pro-gay, but the South Side has a rich history of LGBTers of color (if you've never read about Bronzeville, you must: http://outhistory.org/wiki/Queer_Bronzeville_:_An_Overview). There are a couple of black LGBT churches in the area, and popular bars like Jeffrey Pub.

But maybe it isn't strange, because there's a very odd dynamic at play on the South Side that doesn't exist in the North Side's LGBT neighborhoods. It's that South Side gay culture (which, let's be honest, is mainly black) is almost in an unspoken parallel universe. It exists, people know about it, but you would never know about it unless someone told you where to look. Whereas Boys Town is full of rainbow flags and community pylons along the street, you could be standing outside one of the most popular gay bars on the South Side and not be aware of it. It's kind of folded under the fabric of the neighborhoods. If an entire community could be said to be on the borderline down low, the South Side would certainly be a good illustration.

Knowing that dynamic, and then realizing the Obama's have very few gay friends, I wonder exactly what circles and culture they moved in when living in Chicago.

[FreeState]

10. + 1

[mitchtv]

9. I raised an eyebrow when the Willie Brown story

came out during the campaign. That he didn't want any pictures taken with Newsom, I felt it was telling.

[Neecy]

12. I know this move well

You see it frequently in the Castro with straight tourists - my friends and I used to call it the "het clutch". The guy would look panicked and practically paste himself on his wife/girlfriend.

I laughed when I saw the video of the reception, because our president was het clutching.

Maybe he's not a homophobe (and I could debate this on both sides) but he certainly isn't comfortable with us and he doesn't 'get it', which he proved with the Warren insult.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

17. You're just full of patronizing lectures today, aren't you?

Well, nobody here is interested in listening to them, so just gather up your condescension and your offensive stereotypes and move on.

[mistertrickster]

18. Because the past strategies for effecting social change have been so effective, eh?

Yeah.

How's that working out for you?

[Neecy]

19. wow....just wow

I've never witnessed a straight man being hit on in the Castro when he's obviously with a wife/girlfriend. Nice stereotype you have there of gay men as sexual predators.

There's a big difference between a Pride parade and what's happening today in DC. You obviously have the two confused. I have two friends marching and I promise you they aren't wearing chaps. Jesus Christ.

[mistertrickster]

21. Well, your experience is not my experience. I get hit on all the damn time

with or without my main squeeze. I mean I can deal with it, but some people don't like it.

And I'm not even good looking enough to be gay . . .

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

23. Reminds me of a classic from The Onion....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33540

[donco6]

27. LOL! Man, straight out of it.

No pun intended.

[Neecy]

24. wow, you must be smokin' hot

Excuse me while I vomit.

Oh, and all gay men are not good looking. Just correcting another stereotype.

[donco6]

28. Hey! I resemble that remark.

:)

[Neecy]

29. Allow me to rephrase.....

Not all gay men are attractive OUTSIDE of DU.

Didn't mean to offend my hunky boys here :)

[donco6]

30. Ah . . . if only it were true.

But thanks - :hug:

[Amaya]

42. you're full of shit

[JesusAndMaryChain]

33. A revolting post

A friend - a regular DU contributor - emailed me a link to your post tonight because, as he put it himself, it demonstrates a puzzling underlying hostility to Obama from a small section of our community that he - and I - believe actually has nothing to do with McClurkin, Warren, his views on gay marriage and his slowness in addressing DOMA, DADT etc. In fact, reading your post, I suspect if McClurkin and Warren never happened, if Obama was pro gay marriage and had already dealt with DOMA and DADT, you would still feel the same antagonism towards him.

Your characterization of him as someone who fears "secretly" being regarded as a "homo" is something I would expect from a Tea Party attendant. It is crass and inane beyond belief, an extraordinary statement - and I think it says a lot more about you that it does about him.

"Look at his body language, his posture, the way he constantly looks down....Has he ever latched himself to Michelle like that at similar events? The man was practically on top of her the entire time, as if he didn't want anyone to think "Hrm, he's talking to them. Bet he's secretly a homo.....I see a distinct insecurity and discomfort. ... It's more in the vein of "I don't want anyone thinking I'm gay, too." I wonder if there's something in his upbringing that's being channeled there."

These aren't the views of a progressive, these are the views of a bigot.

What exactly, for example, do you mean by "I wonder if there's something in his upbringing that's being channeled there"?

That he was raised by homophobes?

Which side of his family do you think that prejudice came from?

I was at the White House reception you refer to - does that make me a 'House Gay'? I was right beside the quacking cell-phone! The notion that Obama was "practically on top of Michelle the entire time", as if to prove his raging heterosexuality, is just.... creepy. Not once was Obama "practically on top" of his wife, either before or during his speech or when he greeted us afterwards, all we saw was the mutual warmth the couple always display. It is truly a sign of desperation when you have to manufacture this kind of stuff to 'prove' Obama hates gays.

Before you target your ire at me: yes, I am gay, and, yes, I campaigned for Hillary. Perhaps you still think I drank the Kool-Aid, especially when I am a member of a GLBT organization that accepted an invitation to the White House?

If you do, I really don't care. It is people like you who hamper our progress a lot more than possible "secret homos" like Obama. What age are you - 12?

Never mind, we'll carry on pressuring him to speed up progress towards basic civil rights, you just keep on hating.

[mistertrickster]

35. Welcome to DU, J&M. Interesting observations. nt

[ruggerson]

37. Explain what you're trying to say to Prism

Don't beat around the bush. You're upset because he conjectured that Obama may feel uncomfortable around gay people? That's what caused your screed? You find that revolting?

Be direct. Say what the hell you're trying to say.

You actually joined DU to write this post?

[QC]

39. Hmmm. I think one of my socks is missing. n/t

[Neecy]

44. I suspect I've found your sock

[Toasterlad]

38. You're Doing a Bang-Up Job.

I saw a prime-time example of the kind of "pressure" people like you put on Obama at the HRC dinner Saturday night.

The proper term for it is "groveling".

You don't effect change by kissing Master's ass, honey. You do it by DEMANDING it. LOUDLY.

[Neecy]

41. it's hardly a "small section of our community"

Interesting having a Hillary supporter come in here and lecture us about our perceived antagonism. I was busting my ass working for Obama from December 2007 and throughout 2008.

If I've felt betrayed by Warren, DADT, DOMA then I've earned the right to be. All of us have, and you can take your "people like you" crap and shove it straight up your ass.

[noiretextatique]

43. welcome to DU

i also find this cadre puzzling. my response to them is this truth: obama is the most gay-friendly president we've ever had...period. i don't like some of the stances he's taken, but i fully expect more progress on GLBT issues by this administration than any other in american history. obama needs his feet held to the fire, but silly speculation and ridiculous innuendo is just not productive in terms of protest or political action.
:toast: welcome :hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Whose your daddy?

I mean you come here suddenly to spew this crap. And you have said you are a professional 'activist' so who the fuck is your Daddy? Who do you work for? And most importantly, did that organization send you here?
2 posts. Like a writer on call. Do you always run into rooms and start preaching to strangers? Or only when your Daddy tells you to?

[RetiredTrotskyite]

11. I Still Think We Need To...

let him know we are not giving up while keeping pressure on Congress as well. It is so sad that he is so insecure that he cannot talk to LGBTQ leaders without clinging to Michelle as if to say, "See? I'm not gay!". A secure straight man does not need to do that. I am not saying anything except that Obama is frightened to death of being thought gay. He's also scared witless of offending his fundie supporters (those who do support him). However his insecurity is neither the fault of nor the problem of the LGBTQ community. His refusal thus far to keep even one of his campaign promises IS and we need to do whatever we need to to keep pressure on him and the Congress.

I will have to see definite action on his part before I will reverse my currently negative opinion. A "fierce advocate" would be out there seeking justice no matter who does or doesn't like it.

[mistertrickster]

13. Wow. A major speech in support is not enough.

Using the bully pulpit, he said, “we as a nation finally recognize relationships between two men or two women are just as real and admirable as relationships between a man and a woman,” and when “no one has to be afraid to be gay in America.”

People here have no idea how hard it is to change the status quo. JFK wasn't really too keen on Civil Rights even while Martin Luther King was sitting in the Birmingham Jail. Finally, the outrage forced the Democrats to introduce the Civil Rights Act, which only passed because Kennedy had been shot dead and the bill got a huge sympathy vote.

Gays are right to organize for power and to demand change.

But just sniping at the only friend you've ever had in the Oval Office is not going to get 'er done.

[QC]

15. Are you gay? n/t

[mistertrickster]

16. DADT, heh. nt

[Neecy]

20. WIth "friends" like this....etc.

[joeybee12]

26. The ONLY friend?

Clinton did some crappy stuff, but he was way ahead of Obama on gay issues, even for back then.

[armyowalgreens]

32. "People here have no idea how hard it is to change the status quo."

And you have no idea what you are talking about.

[JesusAndMaryChain]

34. A major speech is NEVER enough

unless it leads to action. But I remain hopeful.

[mistertrickster]

36. Yes, you have a point there. But I think Obama has to follow up after this. I'm hopeful too. nt

[sui generis]

25. get a load of this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6759693&mesg_id=6759779

in response to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6759693&mesg_id=6759693

just when you thought the zombies were dead - Rule #2: double tap. Who's with me?

[donco6]

31. It's obviously in response to that.

How he can deny it is only indicative of where DU is anymore. They're as bad as Fox news. SAy anything and insist you didn't.

[PinkOwl]

40. I think DADT will be repealed by the end of next year

President Obama has good intentions; plus the pressure on our side has been consistent and this time we have the ear of Obama, not George W. Bush. So we are not wasting our times.