Urgent petition to save the lives of 128 homosexuals sentenced to death in Iraq

[Ian David]

Urgent petition to save the lives of 128 homosexuals sentenced to death in Iraq

We endorse the Urgent petition to save the lives of 128 homosexuals sentenced to death in Iraq Petition to President Jalal Talabani; Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamil al-Maliki; President of the Supreme Judicial Council Midhat Mahmood; President Foreign Relations Dr. Sheikh Humam Hamoody; Minister of Human Rights Wajdan Mikhail Salam; Iraqi Presidency Board Huma.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?iraqgay

[imdjh]

1. Bring me up to speed please.

IS the US government doing nothing? How can the US allow this to happen in a US occupied country?

[mitchtv]

5. this happens because it's done

quietly and anonymously no names giving the apologists room to say "not so" "who" all good queations if you choose not to believe Iraqi Gays. Official denials help too. You will probably read it later on in this thread

[UndertheOcean]

2. kick

[Mithreal]

3. K&R and signed nt

[Hun Joro]

4. Signed and forwarded.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. K, R and signed. I'd like some independent corroboration...

... of all of the above but sounds like waiting is not an option. Better to err on the side of caution and sort it out later.... after we're SURE that our people are *not* being murdered there by our ummm..... "clients".

Also the peritions should be directed toward Obama , Clinton et al. They effectively direct the operations of that gov't. If these people are killed, they, the US government, must be held responsible.

[barbtries]

7. i signed.

i hope it will do some good. it hurts my heart to consider this. it's fucking 2009 for gawdsake! is humanity moving in the wrong direction?!

[noiretextatique]

8. signed

:kick:

[Mnemosyne]

9. KnR for greater visibility. n/t

[newtothegame]

10. Signed. What has Obama said/done about this? n/t

[HamdenRice]

11. This is a bullshit story that has been debunked over and over

Encouraging people to sign onto this "cause" will only discredit the real movement to end discrimination against gays and lesbians in Iraq.

There are not now, nor have there ever been, 128 homosexuals sentenced to death in Iraq.

There are 128 prisoners sentenced to death in Iraq for a variety of offenses. Inasmuch as Iraq is one of the the murder, kidnapping, bombing rape and extortion capitals of the world, it should be obvious that the majority of people sentenced to death in Iraq have been sentenced for a variety of serious crimes. Because the government refuses to identify the condemned or their crimes, it's impossible to know who they are or what crimes they were convicted of. According to Amnesty International, the concern is that the trials in which these people were sentenced do not meet international standards of due process:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/iraq-128-face-execution-batches-20-20090312

"Some are likely to have been convicted of crimes such as murder and kidnapping on the basis of confessions they allege were extracted under torture during their pre-trial detention by Iraqi security forces, without their allegations being investigated adequately or at all by the CCCI. Torture of detainees held by Iraqi security forces remains rife."

<end quote>

Unfortunately, some UK based GLBT activist blogger wrote that there was concern that some of the 128 may be gays convicted of the crime of homosexuality, but Iraq does not even have a law against homosexuality, so there is no basis for anyone to be sentenced to death for the "crime" of being gay. Somehow this person's "concern" has blossomed into an internet rumor that all 128 condemned are gays who were convicted of the crime of homosexuality.

These story has now been met with official derision because the US State Department says there are not 128 gays facing execution in Iraq.

Unfortunately, there is a great deal of extra-judicial harassment, kidnapping and murder of gays and lesbians in Iraq. Now the bullshit story will basically discredit legitimate activism over the real problem -- the murder of gays by shadowy militias, religious fanatics and rogue police forces.

http://www.edgenewengland.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=&sc3=&id=89141

State Dept.: Reports of Iraqi Gay Executions Completely Bogus

by Kilian Melloy
EDGE Contributor
Thursday Apr 2, 2009

A group called Iraqi LGBT, run out of London by exiled self-identified gay Iraqi Ali Hili, has alleged that the Iraqi government is set to execute more than 100 men for the "crime" of homosexuality, according to a March 31 article posted at UK Gay News.

A spokesperson for the U.S. State Department who works at the Iraqi Desk and spent a year in the war-torn country told EDGE that the story has no merit. "Homosexuality is not a crime in Iraq," said John Fleming, the public affairs officer for the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.

"The individuals condemned to death in Iraq have been convicted of violent crimes, including murder, terrorism, insurgency and kidnapping."

There have been no executions of criminals since 2007, added Fleming, who also noted that any criminals now awaiting possible execution are there for crimes such as "terrorism, insurgency and kidnapping." Their sexual identity is irrelevant to the charges, he said.

"None were convicted of the ’crime’ of being homosexual," Fleming told EDGE. "In fact, it’s immaterial to Iraqis.

[bluedawg12]

12. Failure to verify is not the same as falsify.

We do know that there are 128 people condemned to death in Iraq.

We do know that the Iraqi Court system is dysfunctional.

We do know that the Iraqi Court system is secretive.

We do know that Amnesty Intl. has called for the names of the condemned and the charges levied against them, in order to verify the circumstances of the verdicts and the alleged crimes.

We do know that a London based Iraqi group has claimed that some proportion of the 128 condemned were condemned solely on the basis of their sexual orientation.

The conflict in information is between two sources:

The story in the Edge quotes a State Department Source versus a member of the London based group IraqiLGBT, a Mr. Ali Hili.

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=&sc3=&id=89141

According to the State Department:

"There have been no executions of criminals since 2007, added Fleming, who also noted that any criminals now awaiting possible execution are there for crimes such as "terrorism, insurgency and kidnapping." Their sexual identity is irrelevant to the charges, he said."

According to Mr. Ali Hili:

"Hili asserts that the prisoners face execution from the Iraqi government in groups of 20 starting this week, according to UK Gay News, and that a total of 128 Iraqis accused of being gay face death."
.........

That does not prove that the story is "bullshit."

It does point to the fact the internet is not an irrefutable source and cross referencing this story to see if other NGO’s have picked it up is prudent.

There are some concerns with this story.

According to the Edge, Mr. Hili told the UK Guardian that 128 gays are scheduled for execution.

In an interview with the UK based gay blog/newspaper,"Pink Paper," he is quoted as saying 5 out of the 128.

"Iraq is planning to start executing 128 people this week, many of who are thought to be gay.

Iraqi LGBT, a UK-based organisation of Iraqis which tries to protect queers in the country, says that five (5) of the people on death row are their campaigners in Iraq. And they believe that many more are gay."

http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=858
........

What we have is an emotionally charged story of an impending terrible human rights violation, in country that is pretty much impervious to outside verification.

There are some inconsistencies about the actual number of condemned gays from Mr. Hili's interviews, is it 5 or 128?

There is an opposing position from our State Dept., Mr. Fleming.

As of this thread, it is basically Hili vs. Fleming. That appears to be a draw.

Fleming may be trying to save face for the govt. or simply be unaware of the situation on the ground in detail. While Mr. Hili may have inside information few are privy to.

There needs to be verification from other sources, outside of the IraqiLGT source from some accepted NGO, like Amnesty Intl., or the UNHRC or any other NGO or GO, to corroborate this story and to back up Hili.

In the meantime, absence of verification is not falsification.

Iraq is closed off to foreigners and even NGOs like Amnesty are not on the ground there.

People here have signed a petition on the assumption (among others, I suspect) that there is more harm in ignoring a potential atrocity, then there is in signing a petition.

No one has conclusively shown that this is "bullshit" simply because, sadly, the main opposing opinion comes from a source that some would find suspect. Many find guys like Fleming suspect and pardon some of us for not believing that some in official places would lie to the public to avoid an untimely political embarrassment.

Also, Hili may know more about detailed inside information about Iraq, than Fleming.

On the other hand, aside from the petition, due diligence is warranted before sending donations to Hili say versus, some well established international NGO.

[HamdenRice]

13. I respect your careful, objective work on this issue

but I think we can all agree that "128 homosexuals sentenced to death in Iraq" is now clearly revealed to be an erroneous statement.

Circulating a petition based on that statement will not help the situation in Iraq, and seems to have caused at least one State Department official to deride the larger effort.

[bluedawg12]

15. This story should elevate governmental awarness about persecution of gays in Iraq.

In fact, let's assume that this story was true, partly true or false but ultimately, the scene in Iraq makes it completely unverifiable, so it is what it is and we may never know.

True, there is a concern for taking advantage of a group of people who are good hearted and exhorting them to activism, petitions and emails, about an issue that may be mis-stated.

True, there is a chance some have spent hard earned dollars for very good reasons, donating to an overseas group that is unverified as a legitmate NGO.

Still what would that scenario demonstrate? That groups of concerned people can be mislead by viral information on the internet? I bet that happens quite often.

What I don't accept is this notion as being relevant, that this led, "at least one State Department official to deride the larger effort." That cannot follow and must not.

I am not even sure Fleming was saying that. But if he did, then, he needs to be away from the Iraqi desk and selling sneakers in Peoria. Because, this viral story has little impact on the information coming out of Iraq and should not cause any official to be dismissive of the persecution of gays in Iraq.

The ugly truth about violence and terror against gays in Iraq remain. If anything, this viral story should not not cause less focus, but rather, more focus on what is happening there.

The problem with any misinformation, and I am not prepared to say this story is misinformation, for all I know, next week Amnesty may confirm the claimed executions, when, sadly, it will be too late. Regardless, the underlying climate in Iraq has come into focus now and if nothing else,this story should alert us and our government officials, and yes, even international NGO's, to the need for more vigilance about the violence against human beings in the name of "sexual cleansing."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/25/iraq-gay-rights
>>"This campaign of terror is sanctioned by Iraq's leading Shia cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. In 2005, he issued a fatwa urging the killing of LGBT people in the "worst, most severe way" possible.

This is the same Sistani who was praised by President Bush as a "leading moderate". The British government concurred. We hosted him in Britain for medical treatment. He was anti-Saddam, so the west backed him, even after he issued his murderous religious edicts.

Although the general security situation has improved in Iraq, for LGBT people it has deteriorated sharply. Systematic assassinations of queers are being orchestrated by police and security agents in the interior ministry, many of whom are former members of the Iranian-backed Badr Corps militia.

Queers are being shot dead in their homes, streets and workplaces. Even suspected gay children are being murdered. They killers claim to be doing these assassinations at the behest of the "democratic" Iraqi government, in order to eradicate what they see as immoral, un-Islamic behaviour.

This programme of targeted murders has one aim, according to the death squads: the total eradication of all queers from Iraq. It is, in effect, a form of sexual cleansing. The killers boast that most "sodomites" have already been eliminated. <<

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Bluedawg: "There never was, and there never will be another like you."

Look it up; it's google-able.

>>>>Although the general security situation has improved in Iraq, for LGBT people it has deteriorated sharply>>>>

This alone is worth pondering. For the irony. Or lack thereof.

[bluedawg12]

17. "Five Things a Legitimate Modeling Agency Will Never Ask of You"

That's as far as I got on my googling. More hints? :P

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. Hah. You're human after all. OK, last chance:

"I'll admit I may have seen better days, but I'm still not to be had for the price of a cocktail. Like a salted peanut."

[bluedawg12]

19. So you think I am an old salted peanut?

:rofl:

[Smarmie Doofus]

20. Not exactly.

George Sanders says it to Anne Baxter in All About Eve. ( i.e. "There never was....")

The "salted peanut" quote, from the same film, is much better known, and I thought would have been a dead giveaway.

Speaking of "death" ( call off those cats)... and our mutual desire to have less of it... I'm enjoying and appreciating your work on this thread.

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. "Immaterial"?

>>>>>>>None were convicted of the ’crime’ of being homosexual," Fleming told EDGE. "In fact, it’s immaterial to Iraqis.>>>>>>>>

Immaterial. OK. It's not immaterial to people in *New York*, but it's immaterial to Iraqis?

And I was worried *before*.