Opinions about sex work to the LBGT community ONLY.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

COuld you guys tell me where your positions on sex work and sex workers are? For porn and prostitution and other sex work that you may want to talk about. What should be legal or illegal. What is wrong or right? Who is being oppressed and what can be done to help remove the oppressions etc.

I think in general the GLBT community has a different take on sex, then the non-glbt community. I think it was very clear during the whole spitzer issue that our take on sex is just different.

I wonder if our take on sex work is different.

[xchrom]

1. i have no bad things to say about sex workers.

people do it -- for all kinds of reasons -- runaways do it to survive.

gay men with college educations do it for different reasons.

for others -- sex work is part of their 'sex life'.

i've known some lesbian sex workers -- appealing only to other women -- and the reasons get varied again.

warp and weft -- what would we be without them? -- what would we be with out a generous thought about how others in our community live their lives?

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. IME, gay and bi men are pretty sex-positive all across the board

I can't speak for women or transgendered individuals, keep in mind; I'll let them speak for themselves.

As for men, I know that we generally have little problem with sex itself. About two thirds of the gay couples I know have open relationships to some extent. Polyamory is not unusual either, when three guys form a triad, or when one of a male couple is bisexual and has another ongoing relationship with a woman.

I've known a lot of guys who have done porn professionally, either photo shoots or actual videos; in some communities, if you haven't been with someone who's done porn then you are either out of circulation or dead. Most guys do porn for a thrill, for something to brag about, to satisfy a fantasy of being filmed or to arrange a sex situation that might otherwise be unavailable or unsafe; it pays very little, if anything (and I will take the Fifth on all further questions in that direction, thank you.)

Sex for money is generally looked down upon. Hustlers (who solicit money from men who want to perform oral sex on them) and male prostitutes hearken back to the not-too-distant days when many men found it necessary to buy sex. There is something closeted about a gay john, especially given the open and casual attitude that most gay men have about sex. On the other hand, I can understand the simplicity of engaging in a simple business transaction without needing to go through the time and effort of cruising, even if you are an openly gay man.

[closeupready]

17. Okay, okay - just give us the first three words of the film title, and then promise,

no more questions. :rofl:

[Gedankenaustausch]

3. What's the big deal?

I really don't understand the issue surrounding sex workers. Having lived in Germany for some time, seeing the sex workers in the red light district comes as quite a surprise to your American eyes at first glance, but you get used to it. I do not know the intimate details involved with prostitution in Germany as far as government involvement, taxes, etc., but I do know that it is legal, and very expensive.

As far as what the GLBT community thinks about sex workers, I think that you have to look at what we think of sex in general. I feel that sex in our community is more up front. When we were younger and not as mentally sophisticated, what we did, or wanted to do, in bed was the only thing that defined us. Some of us are still caught up in this type of thinking. But later in life, I think that this gives us more nonchalant attitude when thinking about sex. For some reason straight people as a whole do not like talking about sex as much as gay men. Not that we're sex crazed maniacs, it just comes naturally to express ourselves in this way, and most importantly it is not looked down upon in our community to do it. I feel like it is hard for straight people to express themselves sexually because forces of conformity are stronger in straight relationships than in gay ones. As for others in the community I cannot speak for them because I know very few of them.

[LeftHander]

4. Well it is the oldest profession....

Not like it is going away anytime soon....as long as someone needs money, and someone has a part of their body they can offer up for money...sex work will be around.

Like all jobs there are honest outfits and crooked ones. Ones that care about their employees and customers and other's that they "screw" over at the first chance. Like Banking prostitution is rife with freed, selfishness and exploitation.

What happens between consenting adults behind closed doors...or in the bathroom stall...is really something I don't care about...

[jeremyfive]

5. Republicans - Straight Sex Positive

If you are in the Repugnant Party, you can dip your tallywacker most anywhere without fear of criticism. Just look at prostitute's john David Vitter--doing quite well among the Republicans despite the evidence of his sex crime that came to light. Just a good ole' Republican hound dog, Davy.

Now if you tap your toe in the Men's Room, it's a whole 'nother story. Going that way will get you tossed out of the club.

[BR_Parkway]

6. When I think of how much money I could have made for what I so willingly

gave away for free.....sigh

Seriously, if it's a consensual thing between all the parties involved, I've got no problem with it. Which also means that the married guy hiring a male for sex would need his wife's permission first.

[imdjh]

7. Meth has totally screwed it up

When I was younger I would see the "blue collar" guys who would make themselves available for a laybackanddome for spending money, or for an excuse, or for whatever reason they were out there. They may well have been alcoholics, but they didn't have the beat and desperate look that you now see. The guys working craigslist run a spectrum from suburban types who appear to do this as a hobby or for extra money to those who appear to be suffering the ill effects of drug abuse. One thing you do notice on craigslist is that there are an inordinate percentage of ads by black men claiming to be straight, so it would appear that economics is still a factor to the game. The only thing that makes me find the black men who claim to be straight less suspect than the white ones is that so many of the white ones can also be found in the regular personals,, presumably looking for casual sex like anyone else there though I suppose that they could simply be working the "Yeah, I like you.... but can you help me out with cab fare?" kind of thing. I don't respond to any of these ads, so I don't really know what these people are up to.

As for porn- I am bored out of my mind by most of it. I despise the formula and without being too graphic let's just say that I don't like the standard ending. That which isn't boring, tends to be trying to set a new standard for disgusting- again without being too graphic there is a "new" practice in some of the amateur and pro-am videos which is particularly revolting and would be if there were only one person involved.

[MNBrewer]

8. workers of all types can be exploited

it doesn't require that one use one's genitals in the performance of the job. I always figure I whore my fingers and brain; porn star whores other parts. (sometimes fingers) I see no objective difference between sex work and any other type of work. Except that sex work is illegal and has a social stigma that office work doesn't. (office work vs. orifice work?) hehe

[Eryemil]

9. Well, as I mentioned in the polling thread, it's good to see that most here have a better attitude..

...than those people I debated with in the "Sex Workers" thread a while back.

I think our being mostly gay men might have something to do with it, as opposed to all the straight women that jumped on me when I dared to say that I dared to speak of prostitution in a positive light.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. i think a lot of uppermiddle class and middle class women who claim to be feminists

have no idea about how the rest of us live and see far too many black/white issues when there are always shades of gray

[readmoreoften]

10. As someone who was a sex worker for 7 years. I found a higher percentage of lesbians

in the field. It was a refuge for us because we didn't get judged and we were usually trusted more by the other women because, particularly in the world of strip clubs, "sluts" are a real problem. Wanting to do sex work for free is the ultimate sin because you devalue everyone else's labor. In a smaller town or city, in the 80s and 90s it was a refuge for lesbians who couldn't work in an office because they had no pictures of a boyfriend or kids to put on their desk. They'd run you out of the office.

I think the important thing is WORKER protection. Many of the girls felt very abandoned by traditional feminism. And many of us WERE abandoned when we attempted to have labor struggles, etc.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. i absolutely agree with you

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

13. here's my take

I would never be a prostitute or use one. To me consentual pornography (over 18 and not involving abuse) is fine. I've seen it before, it doesn't turn me on. I wouldn't want to date someone who had prostitution (call girl or whatever you want to call it) or pornography as a job now or in the past. I'd much rather be with someone who uses her mind, not her body.
I think prostitution should be legal, like it is in holland, and it should be regulated and taxed, like in NV and Holland so that it's regulated, safer and less likely to spread disease. I think child porn and prostitution should be illegal for the users of that medium and the minors should get therapy/rehab or whatever they need to get their lives on track.
I don't think blaming johns for adult prostitutes is right, I see that as antifeminist, if we're talking about female prostitutes male johns because it makes the "big bad men" responsible for the "helpless" women. I do think pimps/madams who take advantage of abused and addicted women and don't give them a fair cut of their earnings are bad guys/women.
Prostitution and porn aren't for me, and I suppose I do judge people who engage in those activities, especially if they are putting their spouses or partners at risk for disease. I don't believe in open marriages. If one person in a couple want to use a prostitute, that's a sign of problems in the relationship.
As for gay prostitution, since in some circles being gay is as bad as being a murderer and if that's the only way folks can find sex partners, then I can't really judge that (although I wouldn't have a clue where to find a hooker). I think gay men have it harder than lesbians in that respect and there are more social consequences for men than for women.
I tangentially knew a woman who was sexually abused as a kid, had a decent job in gynocologists office by day, and prostituted herself at night to men. She said it was for extra money, but when she was really honest with herself, she admitted it was to punish herself.

[Lyric]

14. I have no problem with it, so long as nobody is being exploited against their will.

And that goes for gay *and* straight prostitution. Remove the pimps and madams from the equation and let the prostitutes work as self-employed free agents, maybe even form unions. Legalizing would also allow these workers some police protection; they'd be more likely to report abuse, rape, and other unsavory things that they are exposed to while working, which would help *everyone* by providing one more outlet to help get the rapists and thugs in jail where they belong.

I do not consider prostitution to be exploitive to women, and that old chestnut about how no little kid "dreams of growing up to be a hooker" is bullshit--how many little kids dream of growing up to shovel shit out of clogged-up sewers, or sticking their arm up a cow's ass to administer medication and/or check for parasites? And yet, those are two jobs that are perfectly legal and fine with society. Should all jobs that no child "dreams of" suddenly be outlawed? I mean, really.

I think it's patronizing to women to tell them what they can and cannot do with their own bodies, and that INCLUDES the selling of their bodies. If we can sell our eggs, rent our wombs (for "expenses," of course *eyeroll*) and chop off our long hair to sell to creepy strangers a thousand miles away who want to jack off into it--why shouldn't we be able to sell sex? It's stupid. The law should not be able to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own flesh, so long as I am not violating anyone else's individual rights in the process.

That goes for my opinion on drug use too, btw.

[Chovexani]

15. I don't inherently have a problem with sex work

I think it's a legitimate way to make a living and I don't think it's inherently wrong or exploitative. I'm really appalled by how judgmental people can be about it (and I agree that straight people are way more harsh than we are). My only wish is we could get the exploitation out of the equation when it happens (pimps and madams), have better and safer working conditions. I'm for organizing the workers but I am a big believer in unions in general. It should be no different for sex work.

My view is that LGBT people are so used to having our own sex lives be condemned, we're viewed as sluts and perverts, etc that I think we're hesitant to hate on anyone for similar things. We have empathy for the underdog and the people mainstream society throws away and condemns because it's done the same to us.

Also, I think a big part of it is many of us are forced to deal with our sexual attractions/proclivities early on because they are not mainstream or "normal", most of us didn't grow up with images that taught us how things were done, so we are forced almost by necessity to explore sexual matters in a way that the vast majority of straight people never have to. So we tend to be way more open-minded about these things and less prone to the black and white morality straights try to force on the issue. We are more poly and kink friendly too, and have less hang-ups about porn, etc. Incidentally I think that's why pretty much all the sex-positive feminists I know (self included) are LGBT. That's not to say that LGBT can't be prudes or straights can't be open-minded, just that for anyone who spends significant time in or around our community it's pretty damned hard to be a prude.

To get all philosophical on you, I often see the LGBT community as being inherently Dionysian in nature and the mainstream het society as inherently Apollonian and that's where the conflict lies. We are in touch with the ecstatic side of life in a way mainstream society shuns, we do the things they do (or wish they could) and are deeply ashamed of, but we do them outside of the very strict boundaries of het society and we do them without shame. That's why they freak the fuck out so badly. Gods help me for invoking Camille Paglia of all people but the only sense she's ever made about anything has been on this very topic.

[closeupready]

16. I'm fine with prostitution. But not sex slavery. I suppose

that can be a fine line. I don't really have many opinions about it, I guess because I oppose almost all prohibitions, except, of course, with children and involuntary prostitution. There could be approved zones for it, to guard against streetwalking and such in residential areas.