Attack on lesbian in Richmond reflects continuing trend

[davidinalameda]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/ci_11359121

News this week of arrests in the Dec. 13 gang rape of a lesbian brought relief to many in the community, some of whom were so outraged that they led police to breaks in the case.
But even as the resolution is lauded, gay-rights advocates and local and national crime statistics portray a gloomy truth about hate crimes against people based on their sexual orientation.
Until the root causes of bias toward lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are addressed, "we'll continue to have hate perpetrated against us," said Shawna Virago, a program director for the San Francisco-based advocacy group Community United Against Violence.
The group reported 304 crimes against Bay Area gays in 2007, the latest year for which complete statistics were available. That amounted to an approximate 6 percent increase from 2006.

[IndianaGreen]

1. The root cause of bias toward LGBTs? Look no further than the churches' pulpits.

The Bible was used to justify anti-Semitism, slavery, and segregation. The Bible is still being used to oppress women and persecute LGBTs.

[davidinalameda]

2. bullshit

and you know it

your bigotry is equal to or surpasses that of the homophobes

[IndianaGreen]

3. I am factually correct, and your sprinkling holy water won't change that!

I will refer you to recent threads on what is happening in Cleveland, where pastors are opposed to a very lame and innocuous registry for same sex couples that provides the most minimal of benefits. They want LGBTs dead!

[bluedawg12]

4. The argument can't be both ways.

One of the most common reply to a gay rights thread is: Well, it's hard for some people to accept, you are going up against organized religion.

Or is it: Churches play no role in anti-gay cultural attitudes.

It can't be both.

I would not say all Churches, nor would I say that Churches openly preach violence or hatred toward gays.

But, the idea of gays not "worthy" of full citizenship rights, or even a registry, because we are "immoral," messages like that get amplified in the minds of sick people who then commit hate crimes. It helps create a climate of dehumanizing GLBTQ Americans.

[ThomCat]

5. No, it's not bullshit.

Just because you're religious doesn't mean churches get a free pass for all the bigotry they've taught, encouraged and promoted.

The bigots certainly aren't being trained and organized out of Starbucks.

[davidinalameda]

11. so ALL churches are the problem

like IG loves to say or are SOME

[IndianaGreen]

14. The problem is in the theology itself, and the holy books in which it is based

The fact that there are wonderful people of faith, such as the Quakers, does not change the fact that despite the efforts of the best of you, religion is a failure because of its origins and core beliefs such as offering a ritual blood sacrifice to a capricious deity.

I see this every week with my friends that attend MCC. They go through all kinds of intellectual contortions to find biblical passages that justify acceptance of LGBTs, and they do find them in abundance, but it doesn't change the fact that the biblical text itself is a remnant from savage past in which someone had to be killed in order to pacify a deity.

[donco6]

20. A - fucking - men.

I see the same thing:

"I see this every week with my friends that attend MCC. They go through all kinds of intellectual contortions to find biblical passages that justify acceptance of LGBTs, and they do find them in abundance, but it doesn't change the fact that the biblical text itself is a remnant from savage past in which someone had to be killed in order to pacify a deity."

As a former fundie, I know the Bible pretty well. Hell, I know it really well. And you're absolutely right. Gay Christians go through all sorts of contortions to explain how this Bible passage doesn't really mean that, when the whole thing is just bollocks. Just drop it and be free already! It's only brought pain and suffering throughout its entire history. We really, really don't need it.

[ThomCat]

22. "All or some?" I would say Most.

The vast majority of churches are part of the problem. Some of those churches are part of the problem to a lesser degree, and others to a larger degree, depending on how rabid and fundamentalist they are. But I think there are few churches that are not part of the problem.

[mitchtv]

23. MOST

the way i get it.And the so called real Christians bear the guilt of doing nothing and allowing the haters to masquerade as servants of the Lord. Granted there are some minor denominations that try to do the right thing. But they have cede leadershio to the "Xians" (Nothing Christ about them,

[yardwork]

27. He didn't say all churches, at least not in this thread.

It's a fact that many ministers preach hatred toward gay people, and that many - if not most, or even all - homophobes use the Bible as an excuse for their bigotry.

That is not to say that all churches are homophobic.

[Jamastiene]

31. The majority are.

Not all, but the majority really do play a large part in the lies spread about us and the hate directed at us. There are some churches and some denominations that are gay affirming, but the majority are still very much against us.

[LeftyMom]

6. Nah, he's right.

Sure, there are some churches that don't feel that way, but the haters are shouting and flinging money around and generally demanding all the attention. The few churches that don't completely suck aren't doing a very good job of getting a contrary message out there, for whatever reason. So the effect of religion on this sort of thing is almost entirely negative.

[bluedawg12]

7. I was so relieved to have those Palin hate fests over with

they reached out to the worst in people. I expected anti-gay hate crimes then, to rise.

But thanks to the Churches and we know who they are...it just keeps coming.

Now, I turn around, there's Warren, then, there's Democrats and pastors in Cleveland dehumanizing GLBTQ people and of course...crickets...

[LeftyMom]

8. And the situation was bad to begin with.

:(

[IndianaGreen]

9. You want crikets, I will give you the most painful cricket incident ever!

Jewish LGBTs tried to set up a memorial in Auschwitz for the LGBT victims of Holocaust, it was shotdown by a coalition of orthodox Jews, Catholic church, Polish government (which wasn't communist by then), evangelicals.

I knew then that some Jews were less equal than other Jews!

I take comfort that Israel is the least homophobic country in the Middle East, and they even have a TV star and music personality that was born Cohen, but is now a trans woman.

[bluedawg12]

10. ......

:grr:

[davidinalameda]

12. you really need to put that big brush away

the one you love to paint anyone with a shred of faith with as bigots

you want to take a look at some of the Palestinians that you support?

how about Muslims and those theocracies that you defend on here?

let's see-Iran-they KILL gays but they support your buddy Chavez so it's all good, right?

Palestine? We just know that's a bastion of civil rights for all

[IndianaGreen]

13. I discussed that wonderful monotheistic god in another thread, here is the link

Let's talk about that Judeo-Christian-Islamic psychotic god, shall we?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=237448&mesg_id=237592

[Breathe]

15. The Bible is to gays what Mein Kampf is to Jews.

It's just one of the texts used to promote superstition and intolerance and irrationality. Other religions have their texts that do the same thing but all those texts were written by men, not Gods.

"The knowledge exists by which universal happiness can be secured; the chief obstacle to its utilization for that purpose is the teaching of religion. Religion prevents our children from having a rational education; religion prevents us from removing the fundamental causes of war; Religion prevents us from teaching the ethic of scientific co-operation in the place of old fierce doctrines of sin and punishment. It is possible that mankind is on the threshold of a golden age; but, if so, it will be necessary first to slay the dragon that guards the door, and that dragon is religion." - Bertrand Russell (who, by the way, wrote the 'I Have A Dream' speech for Martin Luther King only to have King, a preacher, turn his back on him when people came after Russell for being gay.

Just two weeks ago, Pope Benedict declared that saving humanity from homosexuality was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction. He called it, a "destruction of God’s work". And then you've got the fundys in the form of Fred Phelps protesting soldier's funerals because of the sins of gays and in God's name. And then there's Rick Warren who, from his pulpit and his website, denies gay people access to "God's House". C'mon... It's time to release these ridiculous myths and the egomaniacs who use them to puff up their own sense of self.

[IndianaGreen]

16. It was Bayard Rustin not Bertrand Russell

but the point is well made.

[Breathe]

17. Ah yes

You're right. Thanks. But yes, the point is still the same. King did not stand up for him, even though he wrote most of his speeches and even though King professed to judge a man by the quality of his character... It may have been a "political decision" but it certainly wasn't godly.

[bluedawg12]

18. I had read that Rustin was nixed because in 1964

he was involved with some dispute between SNCC and the Dixiecrats, and he appeased the Dixiecrats in the mind of some and was discredited. Sound close? If true, it goes back to the importance of symbolism and reaching out to enemies before the time is right.

[mitchtv]

25. didn't he have a "morals" charge

that gave all an excuse? correct me if I'm wrong.

[yardwork]

29. I like the story better when it's Bertie Russell, though.

Who knew that Bertie wrote "I Have a Dream?" Sort of like Angels in the Outfield.

[donco6]

21. More commandments from the Christian quarter.

"Put that big brush away".

No.

[yardwork]

28. Look, he just doesn't like religion, ok? Don't take it personally.

He's got a point, too.

[yardwork]

26. I think that his statement is accurate. He doesn't say all churches.

[TechBear_Seattle]

32. Fact

While there are certainly exceptions, by and large homophobia continues to be fuel by religion.

[donco6]

19. That's pretty obvious. Why would anyone dispute it?

Well, unless they were brainwashed or something.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

30. I Think That Most Churches....

are the root of anti-LGBTQ bias. Almost all of them have a belief that GLBTQ people are evil or disordered. Sure, some churches are LBTQ-affirming like the Episcopal Church, the UCC and other affirming and accepting churches, along with the UU Church as well as the MCC. However the overwhelming number of churches are not. Also, the homphobic element in Christianity is very shrill in it's opposition of any rights for LGBTQ people, especially in regard to same-sex marriage. Not only do they not permit same-sex marriage, they don't want civil marriages. These people are petty and hateful--hopefully they will decrease in number as younger, less prejudiced young people replace them.

The anti-LGBT image of most Christian people and their churches is NOT bullshit.

[bluedawg12]

24. Here's a nice example of a good Catholic boy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8057089&mesg_id=8057089