Are gay people who marry or date straight people predators?

[hulklogan]

When I was in high school before I came out to myself and everyone else, I was in a heterosexual relationship for a couple of years with a straight female. When I finally couldn't live a lie anymore, we broke up but I didn't come out to her right then because I knew it would mean a difficult last year in a school where there were no out kids (it was the mid 1990s, we didn't have GSAs or anything then).

Did I prey on her? I keep reading about people who have had similar experiences in their lives where a gay person has had a relationship or marriage with an "unsuspecting" straight person, who then has his or her life "destroyed" when their gay husband or fiance comes out and ends the relationship.

Is it just the emotions talking when people say things like this? Or is there actually a mean-spirited psychological drama on the part of the gay person who feels like he or she has to "use" a straight person to create a heterosexual public identity?

In my opinion, the idea that gay people are somehow predators when they are forced by societal pressures into heterosexual relationships is complete bullshit.

[Merlot]

1. Well, if someone knows they're gay and deceives a straight person

for appearance sake or to fit in, then yes, they are being dishonest and using that person. Sraight people who are deceived in a relationship like that, it's very hurtful to them. The gay person at least knows why it's not working out, the straight person is just confused and doubting themselves.

It's really sad all around.

As for society pressuring gay people into straight relationships, that's bullshit. Lots of straight and gay people don't have romantic relationships for a variety of reasons.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. I think decades ago you'd be more likely to find this

because gay people needed the cover just to exist in society. Or they were in denial about their own sexuality. I remember when homosexuality was looked on as a mental disorder--my parents even had gay friends who regularly visited shrinks to find a "cure". I believe that one "cure" was to get married and raise a family. As society becomes more informed and enlightened about homosexuality, I feel that you will see fewer and fewer marriages of deception.

[pnwmom]

31. True, but it happens now more than you would think, especially in small towns

and in the South.

I talk to other children of gays, and they are sometimes put in very difficult positions -- having to keep a secret from one of the parents, or at school, etc. Having to pretend that a partner is just a roommate. Having to move to a whole new city so that the parent feels free to come out -- and the child has to come out, too (as the son or daughter of a gay parent) -- but in a brand new high school with no friends for support. It can be very hard.

[Deja Q]

2. That's why I tell people "I'm bi" upfront.

See, I could say "I'm straight" and have them wonder, or be honest and tell them everything up front. Including spelling out obvious things like why I'm bi, what defines a relationship, etc, so there is no misunderstanding. I am for monogamy.

Whether or not they believe me is their problem and if they don't, then they really don't care about wanting a relationship (either with me or for relationships in general.)

I tell people up front and if they're honest or a bunch of piddling game players, it doesn't take long to separate the cream from the scum.

Edit: Added minor clarifications.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. eh nevermind.

[RetroLounge]

37. There's really no point.

is there?

RL

[Jamastiene]

39. I know how that feels.

I know exactly how it feels. :hug:

[Recursion]

3. I'm sure some of them are

Some gay people, like some straight people, are predatory in all their relationships. Others never are. Others occasionally are.

I mean, I don't think having a "beard" relationship is necessarily predatory, particularly if the LGBT participant is still coming to terms with his or her identity. It's much more about the individuals involved than some rule of what is and isn't predatory.

[Deja Q]

4. Exactly.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. exactly so

I've known gay folks all my life, and know how hard it was for some of them to come to terms with their sexual preferences. When I was a child, homosexuality was looked on as a mental disorder, and some of my parents' friends went to shrinks for a "cure". I have heard of gays who married to "cure themselves" of their homosexuality---all because they didn't really understand who they were or that homosexuality is another form of normal sexuality, not a disease or an illness.

[LostinVA]

5. No, of course not

And, people who say that just have no clue about familial and societal pressures, as well (of course) as religious background. I bey almost every GL person on here date and/or slept with someone of the opposite sex when they were younger. And, people over a certain age even married -- I know some people who married, had children, and then just couldn't live a lie anymore.One didn't even REALIZE she was gay until she was 53, even though we all knew it! Most people who say the "predators/destroyed" thing just ahve no clue, and don't want to put themselves into another's shoes.

This thread should be interesting.



It's a shame that people feel forced to hide their true selves.

[pnwmom]

16. It is possible for the straight partner to be devastated -- as anyone can be

upon learning of adultery -- without thinking of the dishonest gay person as a predator.

I think there needs to be a distinction made, though, between the young gay person who gets involved with a straight person because s/he doesn't know himself well enough yet -- as opposed to a Gov. McGreevey, for example, who married an unknowing straight person for the SECOND time in his forties. Clearly, he was using her.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. "Unknowing?"

:rofl:

[pnwmom]

28. I have an acquaintance who personally knows the ex-wife.

And yes, she was unknowing.

Just as my mother was when she married my father. But, to give my father credit, he was young, too, and I don't think he understood himself yet. Unlike Gov. McGreevey.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. Weren't the threesomes kind of a tip-off?

[noamnety]

42. dying here laughing (n/t)

[pnwmom]

47. I don't have any particular reason to believe that person's story.

Especially in view of the fact he was getting money from the Governor.

[noamnety]

51. Two of the three remember being in threesomes together.

I'm thinking her closet is a walk-in and she got lost in there.

[pnwmom]

55. So? I think the other guy said what McGreevey wanted him to say

in exchange for money (which he acknowledged receiving).

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

58. Just an FYI

Conversations with her won't go in any many circles if you just nod and blame the gay.

:eyes:

[pnwmom]

66. What is this, junior high? n/t

[Warpy]

6. I don't think so.

After all, you weren't out to yourself back then. Oh, you knew you had feelings that just wouldn't go away, but you thought it would pass, that you were "normal," that you fit in with all the other kids.

You were just doing what all the other kids said you should be doing.

High school is all about conformity, which is what makes it tough for gay kids and weirdos like me.

Now, the guys in their 30s who want families and think they can screw themselves straight are another matter, entirely. They end up making everyone around them deeply unhappy.

You didn't do that. You were a kid in a conformist setting who tried his level best to conform and failed. No foul.

[carpe diem]

7. I wouldn't necessarily use the word predator...

It would really depend on the situation and the level of duplicity involved. If the straight person truly has no idea that the person they are in a relationship with is gay, then the gay partner doesn't get a pass for the damage he/she causes because of 'societal pressures'. Whatever the motivation or intent, one has to take responsibility for ones actions and the consequences thereof.

[hlthe2b]

8. I know of many straight-gay couples, who mututally decided

on the relationship and both seem to be taking from it what they need and want. I see no issue whatsoever with this.

The problem is when it is one-sided and allowing the other to maintain expectations that will never be realized. Perhaps that comes from a realization on the part of one that occurs well after the relationship is initiated. It seems to me that once that realization has been made, to not confront the issue and to lay out the truth is very much deceptive and unfair to the partner. I don't know how one can justify such action because of "societal pressures." That might explain wanting the relationship to begin with, but living a lie with ones partner--one that does not allow that partner to make choices based on the truth-- is a very selfish individual decision IMO and not "societal" at all.

[Berry Cool]

13. This is one unpleasant reality the gay person in the relationship must face.

Some straight people who get involved with gay people sense what's going on and know what they're getting into. Others have no clue, especially when they're young. They think that if someone's dating them, if someone's in a relationship with them, that means the person MUST be straight, despite whatever doubts they or their friends or parents or anyone else may have. Or, doubts may not even enter their heads, and they may be completely blindsided. Remember, most straight people assume others are straight, and it doesn't even enter their heads that someone could be gay until something causes them to wonder.

When these people learn that their partner has been deceiving them--even for understandable reasons of being unsure about their sexual identity, or afraid of dealing with the reality of what they are, or afraid of what someone else's reaction will be (say, parents) when they learn the truth--the deceived party usually feels hurt and betrayed. Whether or not they have been deliberately used, they may feel as if they have been. If their self-esteem is low to begin with, they may engage in a lot of self-loathing, telling themselves that it just figures they'd be too stupid to tell someone they were involved with was gay, or that they are so unattractive that OF COURSE no straight person could ever be seriously interested in them, OF COURSE all they can attract is a person who doesn't really love them and only wants to use them.

Any or all of those feelings can be misdirected into homophobia. The rejected partner can decide that all gay people are deceptive users who don't care about hurting other people. Or, that they're just perversely REFUSING to be attracted to the straight people who want them. It may not make any sense, but that's what they can tell themselves (and it's comforting).

The best thing a gay person who realizes he or she has been deceiving a straight partner can do is to try to be completely honest with the person about why he or she became involved in the relationship--without blaming the straight partner. The gay person should apologize for all hurt feelings and make it clear that no intentional harm was meant. It should also be made clear that the situation is strictly a result of the internal conflicts of the gay partner and NOT any sort of comment on the attractiveness or appeal of the straight partner or of his or her ability to select partners, and that the gay partner is hoping that one of the consequences of their breakup will be that BOTH partners will have the opportunity to find partners for true, sincere relationships of mutual attraction.

Of course, this should be standard operating procedure for anyone in a relationship with anyone who realizes that he or she doesn't really want to be in the relationship and that there is an element of fakery about it on their part. If you're the one who's been faking--even if it takes you a while to realize that's what you've been doing--you need to do all the apologizing and expect lots of blame and hurt feelings before things get better. The added and unfortunate issue when it's a matter of a gay person deceiving a straight one is that the straight person can regard it as emblematic of gay behavior in general unless it's very carefully handled. Sad, but unavoidable.

[hlthe2b]

14. Yes... agree

But your post would extend to general relationship issues. Breakups can be handled well, allowing both sides to move beyond the pain and not be left with a lost sense of self-esteem and bitterness....

There is, however, a difference between someone who comes to a realization that they are gay and lets their straight partner know with minimal delay and someone who continues the relationship without revealing the truth, all the while becoming involved in outside gay relationships for months or years at a time... The first situation is fully understandable and reflects only on circumstances rather than the individual. The latter case is something far more difficult to defend.

[pnwmom]

18. I agree. n/t

[PDJane]

9. Not predators, no.

They're like most people; we all do things to protect ourselves that tend to hurt others. It's a part of the human condition.

[sundog]

10. uh

i wouldn't over-analyze stuff you did when you were 16 - it's all part of growing & learning

personally, i think young people don't even begin to become human till they hit 24-25, so they shouldn't be judged too harshly (just an opinion)

predator is a strange blanket word & i really don't like it much

there are many shades gray in these situations

for example, someone may be in a hetero relationship & then fall in love with someone of the same sex & need to end the hetero relationship - what the hell is wrong with that? nothing that i can see

than again, other people may enter a relationship in a deceptive manner for strictly selfish purposes & use it as cover - that's ugly behavior imo (gay douchebags exist just as hetero ones do)

each person is a cumulation their life experiences, so rush to broad brush condemnation is a slippery slope

[noamnety]

11. I don't think they are predators.

Some (not all, but some) of the people saying that are the same people who don't think gays have it that bad because they can at least pass for straight. This is one of those catch-22s. If you are openly gay, you can lose your job, lose your health insurance, get randomly beaten ... and if you opt not to do that, to accept your lot in life as a continually oppressed person, you're a predator? Those are some shitty choices.

I figure most relationships end for one reason or another, many of them because one partner falls for another person or at least loses interest in the other person. A break up is a break up - it's going to be painful no matter what. But if the dumped person thinks it's worse and thinks of the other person as a predator because their next partner is going to be the other gender, I don't really understand that. I've never been on either side of an "I'm gay - wtf I thought you were straight" relationship. But if you dump me, I'll be hurt or angry depending on the situation, and I'd like to think the level of pissedoffness would be the same whether the next person you are attracted to is a man or a woman.

[pnwmom]

20. If the gay person is an adult fully conscious of his or her identity

and marries an unsuspecting straight person anyway -- then s/he IS worse than someone who simply falls out of love. S/he has deceived the spouse from the very beginning.

And obviously, if you marry knowing it is likely that you will be unfaithful or even expecting to be committing adultery throughout the marriage, this is much different -- and worse -- than someone who intends to be faithful but fails.

[noamnety]

36. Eh. I'm not convinced.

If the gay person intended to live as a straight person and meant "til death do us part" at the time they said it, I don't see it as deceptive. Or at least not any more or less deceptive as someone who gets married to a person because they or their partner got pregnant. In that situation, you don't generally say "you know, I'm not all that attracted to you, I certainly never wanted to marry you - but I'm going to try to make a life with you because I guess I am going to compromise my ideals and settle for you." The knocked up party (or the one who got them pregnant) typically says all kinds of positive things and works at making it work. That doesn't make them a predator.

If a person enters into a marriage with the intent of making it work for life because that's what they want for their life - even if they have some secret misgivings - they are no better or worse than anyone else who enters a marriage with secret misgivings but good intent.

[pnwmom]

49. I think we mostly agree, since I was talking about about a person who's "fully conscious"

of his gay identity, doesn't tell his fiance, and intends from the outset NOT to be faithful. You wouldn't support that, would you?

On the other hand, if a gay person marries a straight person because they want that for their life -- nowadays, I do think that's unfair. I'm not calling that person a predator, because his or her intentions are sincere. But with what we now know about a gay person's inability to "turn straight" -- it is unfair to marry a person who doesn't know about this very possible future problem.

[noamnety]

56. if they marry with the intent

of not being faithful and lie about that, then sure, that's dishonest and nobody would support that I think. That's not related to orientation though - a lot of straight people aren't monogamous and know it, but figure they can get away with it.

If a person marries another person for life with intent to stay faithful, without being physically attracted to them, there could be a lot of reasons for that.

I am the adviser for a GSA of teens, and sheesh, I gotta tell you, some of them are in your face gay and proud, but others are so unsure of their orientation at that age, I got gay guys studying ex-gay sites knowing they are gay and getting the nonstop message from their parents that they need to fix that, and whether you or I know they won't "turn straight" is unrelated to what they believe, given the right (or wrong) inputs. They aren't thinking "I'm being immoral by being in a straight relationship." They've gotten the message that they are doing exactly what IS moral, sacrificing their own desires to do "what's right." I got another who was in a gay relationship for a few years (she's straight but was just attracted to that one woman) and now she's been with the same guy for several years. From our discussions, much of that doesn't phase them, they see it as a continuum, not "straight vs. gay", and I don't think they see it like you do here.

[CoffeeCat]

12. Society makes it very difficult for gay people...

...to accept themselves. On the macro level, there is so much discrimination and hatred. On a micro level--in families--there
are plenty of parents and extended family members who would reject children if they came out. We all know how young gay people
are bullied in school.

Also, the media portrays heterosexual couples as "the norm" and that adds more pressure.

The confluence of all of this causes denial of self. So, many gay people conform to pressure and want to avoid rejection--so
they try to live heterosexual lives.

A gay person who endures all of this---is a survivor of a very unfair society. The last thing they are is a "predator."

They are simply trying to survive and belong in the world--just like everyone else. However, they have more obstacles coming
at them from many sides.

Yes, it is sad when this happens. When a marriage ends because of this, it's painful, of course. However, that pain--and the
fact that the gay person found it easier to live a lie---is a symptom of our bigoted society. And it's certainly not the fault
of the gay person.

I'm not buying the notion that a gay person would deliberately and recklessly set out to harm someone by marrying and living
a heterosexual life. It happens, but it's done out of confusion, pressure, denial and wanting acceptance, not out of malice.

[pnwmom]

15. I think they are both victims. But it is wrong for a gay adult to be dishonest

with a partner or spouse.

My mother was an unsuspecting straight wife -- and I've never thought of my father as a predator. At the time they married, they were both virgins and my father probably didn't understand his sexuality (this was in the 50's).

So he didn't purposely use her -- but she was basically trapped in the marriage by the time she found out, with several children to care for and no other means of support. So yes, she was devastated and they both felt trapped -- and it wasn't a good family to be growing up in.

But if a gay man today purposely marries an unsuspecting straight woman in order to appear straight, then he IS using her. I've never thought of such a person as a predator, though. Just as a victim of society's prejudices, who goes on to hurt another.

[keepCAblue]

62. It is just as wrong for a straight adult to be dishonest -- and THAT happens....

...often than most are willing to admit

[pnwmom]

65. Of course. No one, straight or gay, should be dishonest with their spouse,

or in their lives, period.

I never implied otherwise.

[keepCAblue]

67. Not implied by words, but by omission

The whole tone of this discussion feels very one-sided. Just wanted to offer some level of balance to this thread.

[Heidi]

17. No. There aren't any promises until we make them.

Dating isn't a promise, nor is it a testament to one's sexual orientation. It's spending time with a person whose company we enjoy. And beyond that, it's what we as individuals make of it -- often at the peril of the person we're dating -- based largely on expectation.

[pnwmom]

29. The OP also asked about marrying, and that IS a promise.

If someone gets married intending to continue to have extramarital activities (unknown to the spouse), that is deceitful, whether the person is straight or gay.

[Heidi]

48. The OP asked about dating, too. That's the part I addressed. (nt)

[theoldman]

19. This discussion again brings up my theory that there is no

fine line between gay or straight. I think we are all gay to some degree. No one is 100% gay or 100% straight. I am sure that the percentage changes as you get older, especially in your early years. How can you deceive someone if you are not sure in which direction you lean sexually. We will solve this problem a hundred years from now.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. I've known gay people who married straights

One had a couple of kids and stayed married for nearly 20 years before ending it in divorce. The hardest thing was the effect on the kids in that case. Another friend's first marriage was to a gay guy who was really trying to convince himself he was straight. If there was deception involved, it included self-deception (this was in the 70s, long before many gays were coming out). The lady involved has told me about it, how it did take time for her to realize that the guy wasn't using her deliberately--and she did get on with her life. No kids from this relationship, which might have helped with the healing because there were fewer people to deal with.

[NYC_SKP]

26. No. Predators prey with intent to harm and deceit is a tool used to get there.

Your situation doesn't feature intent to harm, though I wouldn't say that societal pressures hold one completely without responsibility.

Make sense?

[pnwmom]

30. The OP also addressed the issue of gay people who marry unknowing straights,

and that is a different issue.

[NYC_SKP]

35. true...

hard to imagine, but I'd never pretend to know what it's like to be in their shoes.

I read in "love is the absence of fear" that no matter what, both people in a relationship have 50% blame, credit, responsibility for anything and everything.

While I don't fully agree, I adhere to there usually being some responsibility, it's futile to lay all blame on others.

[pnwmom]

50. I don't agree with the 50% thing, except as an average. In certain situations,

such as when a man doesn't tell a woman about his true sexual orientation (and intention to continue another relationship on the side) -- or a woman doesn't tell a man about the true state of her finances, etc. -- I think it makes sense to assign more blame to one of the partners.

[EFerrari]

27. Doesn't it depend on who those two people are in the first place?

There's a great documentary about a woman minister who figured out she was a lesbian some years into her marriage. She and her husband had three kids and iirc, she was in her late 30s or so.

But, because of who they were in the first place, they worked through it. After the divorce, they remained loving and committed friends. It must have been painful and very difficult but they managed it like champs. :)

Eta: Link to "Your Mom's a Lesbian, Here's Your Lunch"

http://www.linktv.org/programs/lesbian

[Chovexani]

33. There are predatory people of all orientations

But I don't think gay people who enter into relationships with straights inherently fall under that category. Certainly not teens in high school, who are trying to figure themselves out anyway, in pretty much every respect. I don't think what you did was wrong.

That said, someone who knowingly and maliciously deceives their partner is a selfish asshole, no matter what that deception is about. I'm not talking about the folks who, for whatever reason (social pressure, internalized homophobia, denial) don't realize they're queer until later in life. That's entirely different. I mean people who know they're gay, not bisexual, and enter into hetero relationships pretending they're something they're not. Using someone and playing with their emotions is a shitty thing to do. This is not to say that I don't sympathize with the pressures that people are under; I completely understand where the impulse comes from, and put the blame squarely on a deeply homophobic society. I still think it's wrong, though. Do I think it's nearly as common as the hyperventilating heteros claim? Not at all, and I question the motives of people who keep pushing the "predatory gay" meme. Not to mention the fact that this entire debate ignores that sexuality is a continuum, and for some people it's fluid, etc. I know gay people who have fallen in love with different gendered people and vice-versa, and it didn't mean they were suddenly bi, it meant they were a <PersonName>-sexual. Human romance and sexuality is a weird and complicated thing.

That said, I think a lot of these "unsuspecting" straights need to get hit with clue bats because they're in denial. It's a very rare person that can completely hide any sign of their orientation, and it takes someone hopelessly sheltered or just plain naive not to have any inkling whatsoever. And some are just hags in the negative sense of the word thinking they can change somebody, and get mad when reality slaps them upside the head.

My biggest thing in a relationship is communication and honesty, and that's why I can't excuse that kind of behavior. Sometimes people have unspoken agreements about things, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just a big believer in choice and going into things with your eyes open. I've been a beard more than once in my life, and on those occasions I knew what I was getting into and knew what to expect. So it was fair. Weirdly enough, every serious boyfriend I've had but one has been bi (not by design or intent, it's just happened that way, even though I do prefer dating bisexuals just because I find there is less drama over my own bisexuality that way). The last guy I was involved with prior to my current relationship is gay, I was with him for seven years, and I knew he was gay before he did. There were a lot of little clues. Funny enough, the thing that finally forced him to come out to himself was one of my stories. Some of you might know that I write queer erotica as a hobby, and while the BF had always taken an unusually deep interest in my fics, there was one really explicit story I wrote that sort of opened the floodgates for him and forced him to really think about a lot of things. It sparked a long conversation, a really good one, and he felt a lot better. A big chunk of his problem was that he grew up in an extremely hick, rabidly conservative town in Australia, and despite having a cousin so out he marches every year in the Mardi Gras parade, never felt like he could talk to anyone about that sort of thing. And his town was the kind where everyone knew everyone else's business. He came out as bi, but it was one of those "stepping stone" deals, because I've since learned that he now happily identifies as gay. Which is fine by me. And I'm not bitter or angry, nor do I feel like he preyed on me. To the contrary, I'm glad we dated (even if the sex was shitty), because I'm glad I could help him work through his shit. And I'm relieved, because I beat myself up a lot during that relationship thinking there was something wrong with me because he was closed off emotionally, etc. Knowing it's because he had a hard time relating to women emotionally was like a weight off my shoulders. I think we're both better people for having had that relationship, and I don't regret it at all.

As an aside, to this day, my friends in fandom jokingly praise my fic as so hot it busts open closet doors and turns straight men gay. :P For the curious, if you're familiar at all with Final Fantasy 7, it was a Cloud/Sephiroth fic.

[NMMNG]

34. They're not predators

They're victims of a virulently homophobic system. One that tells them gay is bad and even encourages lying to oneself and others--including such sham marriages--through the "ex-gay" movement and even general societal pressure. Lie to yourself, lie to your family, lie to your friends and everyone else, so long as you make Baby Jesus happy by pretending to be straight. Because, you see, being gay isn't a sin, acting on it is.

So they really leave you with only three choices:
1. Deny who and what you really are and become one big lie (regardless of whom gets hurt). Become a Repressed Gay for Jesus.
2. Openly tell people you are gay, but remain celibate and un-partnered because it's evil to act on your homosexuality. You must live a lonely life without love, companionship, intimacy or a family of your own.
3. Ignore their bull and live openly and proudly as a gay person, and suffer the hideous consequences. They'll make your life a living hell. (I don't think I need to go into detail here).

[Jamastiene]

38. It's only a survival mechanism.

The "norms" in our society make it so we have to "try to be straight." It's society's fault, not ours. We do what we gotta do to survive. Anyone who wants to "fault" us for that needs to do some serious thinking twice about it.

[pnwmom]

52. As the daughter of a gay man who was married in the 50's - 70's, I think there

is much less excuse to marry a straight person today. If you're living in an area where it's too hard to be gay, you should move -- rather than marry an unsuspecting straight partner. Yes, society is wrong, and yes, things need to change -- but you need to accept responsibility for not hurting someone else in the meantime.

I have spoken to dozens of children of gay people, most of whom were brought up by mixed orientation parents, and they are often the ones who suffer the most from the parents' unhappiness. I wish you could hear from some of the teens today who are still affected by this.

(My father wasn't deceptive, by the way. He was completely inexperienced and didn't understand his sexuality -- and his religious upbringing didn't help. But his inner turmoil and the friction caused by this made for an unhappy family.)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. all children from unhappy marriages suffer. not just the ones from gay ones

i love how you give society a big pass, but not the poor oppressed gay person.

typical.

[HillbillyBob]

40. Gay people get coerced into those relationships.

I was to trying to be straight. I too told her what it was about about 6 months after we broke up. We remained friends for years and years. She got married had kids, divorced and remarried and moved so I lost track of her.
I dated one girl who it turns out was doing the same thing. This was highschool in the late 70s West Virginia. I did no sleep with them, they were both virgins, I was, but after I figured it out that I liked guys..i wasn't for long, but I did try to keep a low profile.
I had been harassed as a sissy. Though I was not particularly fem, I rode a motorcyle.
We try to force our selves to be straight like if we pretended hard enough maybe it would change us.
Now I have known some gay guys that like to seduce straight men..now that I find to be molestation.
I have known many gay men in the south that stay in marriages, too afraid to be found out and the shame and humiliation that is heaped up on them.
Not all that long ago and still sometimes we are murdered for being gay. I know that happens all over,
but seems to be especially true in the South where the fundys really put the mental in fundamental.
I know that not all fundamental Christians are that way, but too many are I like to call them Kreestians as they have more in common with KKK, hell many are members in good standing with the kkk.

[keepCAblue]

41. I've known far more "straight" (& usually married) men and women who date gays/lesbians

...are they predators or just closeted and in denial?

[pnwmom]

53. No one is a predator who is open and honest about his or her orientation. n/t

[keepCAblue]

63. Yes, but many of the straights that are married are not open and honest.

They very often tend to seek out relationships, usually just for sexual gratification, with single gay men or lesbians...and it is more often than not that it is the single gay man or lesbian who is hurt and exploited while the married straight person runs back to their wife or husband and goes on with their life of lies.

It's a two way street. Straights are just as guilty of deception, if not moreso, than are LGBTs

[pnwmom]

64. A "straight man" who repeatedly seeks out gay men for sex,

then runs back to his wife, is in denial. He isn't straight; he's either bisexual or gay.

Just because a man is living with a "beard" doesn't make him straight.

And if you think the spouse of this kind of man is less hurt than one of his extra-marital sex partners, you're wrong.

[mitchtv]

43. they are both victims, but that doesn't excuse dishonesty

I guess I'm lucky, I was always Gay and got all the toaster ovens I could acquire. I tried very hard at one time 15-16 y/o to get strate, but alas I loved men

[Toasterlad]

44. You USED Her. I Wouldn't Say You "Preyed" on Her.

"Preyed" in this context seems to imply that you took malicious enjoyment out of the fact that you deceived her, which I'm assuming you did not. But in any context, you USED her to stay in the closet because you were scared of coming out.

I am not judging you. I know very well how terrifying coming out can be. I doubt that there is a single gay person alive (older than the current generation, anyway) who didn't "use" someone at one time or another to hide who they are.

Nevertheless, we must take responsibility for our actions. It's easy to blame a homophobic society, or parents, or friends, or teachers, or whatever. But the bottom line is, deceiving someone so that we can use them as a shield between ourselves and the rest of the world is wrong.

It's good that you ended the relationship before it led to marriage, or worse, children. I've known two couples who married under such false pretenses (both times, it was a gay man marrying a straight woman) and in both cases, the women were, in fact, devastated.

Building a relationship with someone inherently demands honesty about who you are. Deliberately deceiving someone (including yourself!) is wrong.

[pnwmom]

54. I agree. n/t

[Marrah_G]

45. My birth mother was married to a gay man

It was incredibly difficult for her when he came out and asked for a divorce. To her it felt as though her whole marriage, the love she thought they shared was a lie. It was different then just having an affair. She couldn't even tell herself that he had ever been attracted to her. It hurt her self-esteem and confidence. She didn't regret it though, because they had two great kids. I never met him. He passed from aids related illness not to long after I found my mother and siblings. By then they had come to some sort of peace , thankfully, with it all.

I think the truly shitty thing is that ANYONE would feel the need to have to do that in the first place.

What he did to her was shitty.

What our culture did to him was worse.

[xchrom]

46. i was very populer with lots of straight boys who weren't

gettin it as often as they liked from girls.

i was young enough to fuck both boys and girls rather gleefully.

had relationships with women when i was older.

had multiple gender encounters for fun.

nobody was preying on anybody as far as i think of it.

but it sure was a lot of fun.

i think of those straight boys gratefully and often -- yay!!!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. i love you xchrom. your posts make me smile and remind me why i love my queer community so much

[lightningandsnow]

57. I had a "straight" girlfriend once.

In all seriousness, hell no. I mean, if the queer person in question doesn't feel attraction (keep in mind sexuality is fluid for a lot of people), then it's an unfortunate situation on all ends, but it's hardly predatorial.

[Deep13]

59. Dude, you were doing the best you could under the circumstances.

When you really understood you were gay, you broke it off. Anyway, she was with you voluntarily, so presumably she was getting something out of the relationship too.

I don't see how "predator" can possibly be an apt description. You weren't hunting straignt women with the intent to victimize them. Frankly, it sounds like a religious-right propoganda label. Apparently, gays are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Either they are sinning in gay relationships or being predators in hetero relationships.:(

[TechBear_Seattle]

60. "Predator" is a bit strong

I have known a number of gay men who married women in an effort to fit in or in response to family or social pressure to marry, and none of them fit any kind of predator profile. Most of them love/d their wives and children, and the idea of coming out and being honest to their families cause/d them a lot of pain and soulsearching (the odd use of tense is because I know one man still in this situation.)

Consider: if a straight man cheats on his wife with another woman, is he a predator too? Even if he knows before his marriage that he will be picking up anonymous women for one night stands after his wedding day?

[sui generis]

61. I've never been "in" the closet

nor have I ever made any special effort to only be friends with "gays".

Plus, "predation" works two ways. One could say that more often than not I've been propositioned by my straight friends.

The stories I can tell would make an ancient drag queen blush.

My point is we're friends and lovers with people because they fulfill something in us, intellectually, physically, emotionally.

If "predation" only has something to do with sexuality, then you've got it all wrong, or maybe "predation" isn't the right idea here.