Co-worker's son got rejected by an Ivy League school. He blames it on affirmative action.

[bluestateguy]

He told me how impressive his son's credentials are, and I believed him, but then I gently tried to tell him that applicants like his son are a dime a dozen at Ivy League schools. 4.0 GPA, many extracurricular activities, very strong test scores and recommendation letters from his teachers. But when you are applying to a school like Harvard or Yale or Princeton, you need something more that just those things to set you apart from the pack. Furthermore, this guy provided no evidence that affirmative action cost his son a coveted spot in the Ivy Leagues.

I also mentioned legacy admissions that swallow up many spots for the mediocre sons and daughters of elite alumni, and he then changed the subject.

[ingac70]

1. More likely bumped by a legacy preference. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

2. The legacy admissions

Yes, affirmative action for the wealthy and connected.

The Ivies also try to balance the student the population geographically. It's easier for someone from someplace like Idaho to get in than someone from NY or Massachusetts

[Xipe Totec]

3. Cognitive dissonance

We must always find a reason for our failures.

And the reason we choose will always be that which bruises our egos the least.

Affirmative action is the perfect excuse.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

4. My own nephew --

got into it with me when he stated that white, middle-class male students had it the hardest trying to get scholarships/loans for college. I threw up in my mouth a little about a white, middle-class male complaining about much of anything. But when he then told me his Dad made too much money for him to qualify for loans and admitted his Dad still took him off on his taxes even though he really didn't financially support him anymore, I told my newphew it sounded like the problem wasn't the Anti-Middle-class White Guy Systemm, but his jackass of a Dad for continuing to take him off on his taxes when he shouldn't have. :eyes:

[wtmusic]

5. 1 out of 10 accepted, and all 10 have 4.0s (or above)

Perfect grades are the floor.

[Davis_X_Machina]

13. My mom worked for years at a HS where...

...the director of undergraduate admissions at Harvard was an old boy, and he used to come speak to the faculty from time to time about admissions issues. He said, and I have no reason to doubt him, that he could fill his freshman class with nothing but valedictorians. Or nothing but students with at least one 800 SAT. Or nothing but National Merit Scholars.

The long and the short of it -- an Ivy League app is a $70 lottery ticket, unless you play that school's sport (Harvard, hockey, Brown, baseball) or are a legacy.

[lunasun]

6. I am going to assume

your coworker is white middle class. Why do they so often blame people of lower class or at least lower on the totem pole of society for their trials and tribulations but when one of power, influence or wealth are mentioned as contributing to their woes , the issue is ignored?

I'm not talking about your experience with 1 person but so often this has happened to me. Subject changed or conversation ended.

I once read an article that said it had to do with their self esteem and how it affects their outlook.

For them, it is never "the man" or big brother or old boys club sticking it to them.
Its always the welfare poor, discriminated , foreigners or illegals that are the biggest influences on their problems. (not)

As you stated, AA probably didn't have as much to do with the admissions as did being a mediocre applicant for an outstanding education opportunity.

[paulsby]

7. i didn't get a job once due to racial preferences

note: i said racial preferences.

i am FOR affirmative action

i am against racial or gender preferences

way back in the day, i applied to a large california PD. the written was pass/fail. (i passed). the next test was the oral . i got a 88. i had a college degree, no criminal background, good job experience in the summers, etc.

a sgt. (who happened to be black) said that with an 88, if i was a woman, or a black or hispanic man, i would easily get an offer. he said the cutoff was 82. for a white male at that time, it was 92

them's simply the facts.

not long after that, california passed an initiative banning racial preferences.

[bluestateguy]

8. Sounds like a quota

Indeed, California was the state that had an actual quota in the UC admissions system until Bakke v. Univ. California in 1978 made quotas unconstitutional.

[paulsby]

9. this was way after bakke

i don't want to date myself TOO much, but suffice it to say this was late 80's early 90's

there was no quote per se as far as i know. just preference given to people based on race or gender, which imo is unjust

[nealmhughes]

10. Ivy for undergrad is over rated. They are all large except for W and Mary.

That means there will be virtually no face time with the professors except when they lecture in giant halls, they will be associating with the TAs. The same in every large university. If they want quality and worry about Ivy when the time comes for grad school when they will actually work with "name" professors, then they can find plenty of "Ivy quality" and much smaller ug schools that are very prestigious. But that is not the end all and be all of getting into a good grad school. That is a combo of grades as an ug and their GRE scores as well as their essays which ought to centered towards a proposed professor and problem they wish to study.

Finally, no one at all knows why some are rejected from any particular school for whatever reason. For the most part the students are interchangeable. Appearance and heritage and tradition or lack thereof are not. Why did I get in at IU but rejected at Emory and courted at Centre and one in Ohio I do not even recall but ended up at Creighton for my undergrad? That is the way the ball bounces.

[wtmusic]

14. Yes and no.

Both of my sisters went to Ivy League schools, (Yale and Brown) and my older sister went to Harvard med.

Prestige is a big boost for job prospects, for better or worse.

[trixie]

11. You need way more than that to get in

A 4.0 is nothing. One must skip any AP classes at the high school and already be going to college classes starting in at least the 10th grade. Volunteering for local organization that frequent local news is a great key. Getting involved with the potential school prior to applying is good. You didn't mention his SATs or ACT scores. Ideally scoring top 10 on ACTs is best.

[Liberal Gramma]

12. But it's so much easier to resent someone you can also look down on

The legacy admissions are usually upper class, family money people. The affirmative action admissions are usually working class, often people of color, and usually have excelled way past expectations. Twenty years hence: which admission subject do you want to have take out YOUR gall bladder?

[Kahuna]

15. Good job on your part, reminding him about the legacy admissions..

I'm not surprised that he changed the subject. I'm sure in his own mind he was thinking, but sure..those legacy kids have a RIGHT to their slots because they were born to the "right" kind of people.