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Should a tenured teacher be fired because he used candy as an incentive?

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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 10:40 AM
Original message
Should a tenured teacher be fired because he used candy as an incentive?
Edited on Sat Feb-27-10 10:51 AM by Smarmie Doofus
Should it even be a *part* ( i.e. a "specification" in legalese) of a dismissal case brought by his district? NYC DOE thinks so apparently. From the tone of the article NY Times thinks so too. ( "Progress is Slow" in getting rid of teachers; *Too* slow far as the Old Gray Lady (NYT)is concerned, one feels.)

This poor guy. Why do I get the feeling that his real crime is that he didn't sign up for the Principal's anniversary dinner, or equivalent ? Or that he he declined to BUY candy during the Parents' Association fundraiser. Or probably BOTH. And other offenses ( Social? Political?) unrelated to competency in the classroom.

Pure speculation on my part, for sure. But lets look at the second half of the article... where the specifics of three dismissal cases that actually went to hearings are discussed.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/education/24teachers.html?pagewanted=2


SNIP



>>>>>Inside a barren room near City Hall, the teacher, Michael Ebewo, sat at a table as the principal of the Manhattan middle school where he had taught for years, Isaac Newton Middle School for Math and Science, began to go through each of the many deficiencies she said she had found in his classroom.
There was a chart with misspellings and unclear instructions.>>>>>>

Mr. Ebewo should have saved his administrative memos over the years. In the actual give and take of day-in-day-out school life, there are... from time to time... "misspellings and unclear instructions." The principal knows this ( indeed, is occasionally guilty of it). One gets the sense that the "cherry picker" is being rolled out on poor Mr. Ebewo. We can only guess how egregious the lack of clarity and the consistency of the misspellings; reporter Medina offers no specifics.





>>>>There were students staring into space and doodling rather than completing their worksheet, which contained questions that the students, who were in special education, had difficulty understanding.>>>>>>


Special ed students "staring into space"!!?! "Difficulty understanding", did you say? *Special Ed* students??!

I teach Special Ed. Some days I'm like Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society. Full of "music and fire"!( Different movie, sorry). Other days my kids stare into space. * Intermittently*, I assure you. I understand my responsibility. But they DO. For some of them, it's their default position; even Robin Williams couldn't change it. This is just a *fact*; the nature of the phenomenon. It's quite possible that the Principal does not understand Special Ed. It's *obvious* that the reporter doesn't.

>>>> Rather than pressing the students for answers, Mr. Ebewo simply answered himself, making the students only more confused.>>>

OK . This went on every day? Every class? Every lesson? Reporter Medina does not say how consistently this occurred. My guess is not very often. But yes... sometimes one does find oneself providing answers to question one has posed when all efforts to elicit them from the students has failed.

Shoot one.

>>>>At the time of that visit, the principal, Lisa Nelson, criticized Mr. Ebewo, who had been teaching for 15 years,>>>>>

15 years ... eh? Starting to get up there toward top salary. Principal might be able to get a teacher and a half, maybe *two* for the same money that she pays this guy. And THEY ( i.e. the newbies) would be ever so grateful to her. And LOYAL. Unlike this old crabapple. Hmmm....

And BTW.... if this guy's so horrific, how did he get tenure? How did he *last* 15 years? Did he have a record of bad reviews over the years? Did they come from an assortment of supervisors?


>>>>>> for not having proper behavior incentives and consequences for the students. The next time she came to the classroom, Ms. Nelson said, he distributed candy to students early in the morning,>>>>

CANDY. Oh the horror.

>>>>something she said “even a layperson” would object to.>>>>>>

Not *all* laypersons. Not even all principals. My principal approved a PA candy fundraiser last month. The actual candy arrived in the classroom this week. I complained ( *NOT* to the Principal, I guarantee you; my aim is to stay OUT of a rubber room if I can) that the arrival of the candy was creating a distraction for the students... which it was. They started arguing about why some kids got it and some did not. I should be concerned about this aspect of it, don't you think? That is, the INSTRUCTIONAL aspect. I just wish the principal were.

Anyway... the DOE has me all confused about CANDY .

>>>>>Mr. Ebewo’s lawyer interrupted with objections more than two dozen times, but the arbitrator overruled him in nearly every instance. The hearing, which covered lessons dating to 2005, lasted four hours. The principal was only the first of several witnesses the Education Department would call to try to prove that Mr. Ebewo was unfit to be in any classroom.

Mr. Ebewo, through his lawyer, declined to comment for this article. His case took years to reach a hearing because of a state law that requires the city to show evidence that it has given the teacher a chance to improve and instruction on how to do so. Any missing file could jeopardize a case, lawyers for the department said. >>>>

OK. But witnesses for this sort of thing are both easy to find and notoriously unreliable. Temps and non-tenured teachers can easily be persuaded to back-up the principal's account for obvious reasons. Principal can *do* things for them... and accused teacher cannot.
Medina's account sheds no light on the witnesses or the quality of their testimony. We are left to speculate.




>>>>>One arbitrator recently stepped down from a case after the department said he had fallen asleep during a hearing. (The arbitrator said he might have “dropped off once or twice.”) The urge is not uncommon. Alan R. Viani, another arbitrator, said he had done “one or two cases, and it made me want to put a bullet through my head.”>>>>

Careful of your language, counselor.


>>>>>>>While their cases drag on, teachers receive full pay and must report to one of the department’s so-called rubber rooms, where they spend each school day with other teachers facing charges of incompetence or misconduct. Education officials say they pay $30 million a year to such teachers.

In current contract negotiations, the city has proposed changing legal standards to make it easier to remove teachers and has said those teachers should be suspended without pay while their arbitration cases proceed. If teachers are later reinstated, the department would have to pay their salaries and an additional 50 percent in back pay.>>>>>>>


Right. What teacher is going to stay in the system for three or more years WITHOUT INCOME on the chance that they will eventually prevail at their hearing and be returned to the same hostile work atmosphere from whence they came? No one; and the city know that. What they really are looking for is the means to get rid of ANYONE they don't want... for whatever reason.


>>>>Lucienne Mohammed, the third teacher to be fired for incompetence since the advent of the Teacher Performance Unit, was found to have repeatedly failed to plan lessons properly and to correct students who gave wrong answers, and to have had a classroom that was “consistently disorganized,” according to the arbitrator’s ruling.>>>>

Don't look now but the DOE-UFT contract forbids the admins to dictate the format of the lesson plans... or to discipline teachers for lesson plan format. In other words , there is no "proper". I have a feeling Ms. Medina is just factually wrong on this one.

>>>>>>>Ms. Mohammed, who did not return phone calls seeking comment, was dismissed more than three years after the principal of Public School 65, Daisy Garcia, moved to remove her from the classroom and nearly a year after her trial began. Officials of the Education Department say that including her salary, the case cost them $230,000, in addition to the nearly $150,000 the state paid for the arbitrator and the cost of preparing more than 16,000 pages of transcripts.>>>>>

>>>>>>The department managed to get rid of one teacher, Casey A. Phillip, without waiting for the arbitrator’s ruling because his work visa was revoked.>>>>>>

This didn't copy all the way. Apparently they ( the DOE) suspended him and then dropped a dime on him, telling the INS that he violated his visa by by getting suspended.

N i i i i i c e .
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. actually, as a parent I find the use of candy or any other *incentive*, repulsive
I'm not raising my kid like the Dog Whisperer.

And if a teacher feels that is the only way they can get students to respond, perhaps it's time to think about a new profession?

My opinion - ymmv.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. do you find your paycheck *incentive* to be repulsive or do you work for free?
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. snap!
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. not even close. n/t
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. oh, so offering kids sweets which parents may not offer at home
is the same as working for a paycheck?

Treat your kids like dogs, do you?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. A) If there is a family that doesn't eat sweets then there are other options such as asking
Edited on Sat Feb-27-10 04:05 PM by GreenPartyVoter
the teacher to consider not using candy rather than just giving him/her the axe, and b) does giving sped kids candy mean they are dogs?
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Teachers employ incentives all the time
Edited on Sat Feb-27-10 11:42 AM by tonysam
It is far more acceptable to use candy or other incentives than beating the shit out of kids when they act up.

Christ, what is the matter with people?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Kickball, free time, pizza party, books, little toys... I remember all of those being used. And they
still are.

I give my little cheerleaders a pizza party halfway through the season when everyone's starting to feel a little blah. We have our yearbook pics taken, then we change and play lots of games and eat pizza and ice cream. :)
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. For middle school sped I used free time on Fridays.
The kids loved it.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. again -- special ed.
:eyes:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. why in your opinion is that significant?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. big difference between a halfway party and regular sweets
And I think you know that.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. like I said -- if you feel the need to use *incentives* you need another profession.
YOU are the one taking the EASY way out. Better to bribe them with candy rather than TEACH and C-O-M-M-U-N-I-C-A-T-E?
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I just love it when non-teachers think they know how to run
a classroom in a day-to-day situation. You have no fucking clue.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. + a gazillion
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. My mother used candy and other treats with her Sped kids and it worked very well. And no, it
Edited on Sat Feb-27-10 12:09 PM by GreenPartyVoter
wasn't the only way they would respond. They absolutely loved her and that's why they worked for her.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I did, too
It's especially important for special education students to have incentives for good behavior, but teachers also do it with the general population.

LIFE is full of incentives and rewards.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. special ed students
you cannot make the distinction between special ed and regular students?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. the key here is *special ed* - isn't it?
She had to find a way to get these kids to respond.
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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Repulsive? It's a piece of candy, not a crack pipe.
I think you may be overreacting a bit.

As for incentive, I have a collection of stamps that I use. It's mind-boggling what middle schoolers who think they're cooler than cool will do to get a stamp on their paper or their hand!
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. I agree, I will stop using my approval and praise for a job well done
and for learning difficult literary concepts as incentive to get the students to do well. Instead, I will make them want to to it out of fear. I will beat the next kid that doesn't do well, and then the next kids will work hard to get it to stop from being beat......wait.....that's kind of an incentive, too.

Well, shucks, what should I do, then, oh master of education?
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. I love it when non-educators judge teachers. I think I'll...
Edited on Sat Feb-27-10 01:28 PM by YvonneCa
...run right down to the local OR and complain about the surgeon's choice of instruments. :sarcasm:
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's amazing, isn't it?
Everyone thinks a teacher's job is easy but, in reality, they have no clue what goes into the job. What makes it worse is that they refuse to even acknowledge that this might be the case, arrogantly assuming that since they went to school once upon a time, they know. They don't and we know they don't.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. It is amazing. What is worrisome to me is...
...that these folks get the national 'megaphone' at the same time teachers' voices are silenced.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Because teachers are not respected as professionals. Just
glorified babysitters.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yep. That's it. My mother had her Master's at the time of her death, and yet there
are plenty out there who don't consider educators to be educated professionals. (I only got my B.S. in Education, but believe me I still felt better prepared to teach with those classes under my belt.)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. And because everyone had a 3rd grade teacher who sucked,
all teachers suck.

That's not really true though, cause for me it was my 4th grade teacher. But you catch my drift I am sure. :)
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. It was fifth for me, but my sixth....
...grade teacher...he was the BEST! :)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. I do it every day. Does this mean I will now be fired?
Just yesterday I was worried about being half fired. What a difference a day makes!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. That's for the leaders of the inquisition to decide.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-27-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. candy should not be used as an incentive.
There are too many negatives associated with using "food" as a reward. Especially something as empty as "candy". For some kids, candy really is not only a BAD choice, but not an option at all.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. should someone be fired over it, mz. tetris?
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Is she still here?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Not on my DU
:)
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. GMTA
:evilgrin:
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
32. What's interesting to me is the story *leads* with the Ebewo case.
That fact alone telegraphs the idea that this is *THE* most egregious example.( This is a stock convention of advocacy journalism/propaganda. ( Remember: it is not labeled as advocacy OR analysis. It is simply a news article.)

Then the reporter throws a whole bunch of stuff at the reader who absorbs it as an indigestible WHOLE. The desired reaction: "Wow. This guy must be really BAD!"

But you look at the charges individually and the whole premise fails. He gave the kids candy. The special ed kids had a hard time filling out the worksheet. There were unclear instructions on a chart.

So..... "fire him".

I'm glad I'm not Mr. Ebewo and I hope they don't come after me.
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Obviously this was a case of principal retaliation.
It goes on all the time, and not just in NYC.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. You know that , I know that but apparently Ms. Medina does NOT.
Despite the fact that she's *the* education reporter for NYT.

Ergo.... I'm going to try to email this thread to her and ask her to respond here.

Currently having trouble finding her email address. Anyone?
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tonysam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. How in the hell can anybody report on education
if they don't understand the simple fact there is an enormous power imbalance between teachers and administrators?

There is NOTHING remotely like this in the private sector or in typical labor-management relations.
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