What changes can a public school make on it's own...

[stopschoolpaddling]

to turn around the policies that are stifling our teachers and subsequently strangling the life out of our children? What's the first change (if any) they can and should make?
What can parents do to help them?

[frazzled]

1. Learn how to spell the possessive of it?

Sorry, but the correct spelling is "its"

It's means "it is" or "it has"

[stopschoolpaddling]

6. Who the hell cares?

If that's the most important comment you can come up with and you are a teacher, your students are in serious danger.
"Teachers and experts can not only be wrong but often are the very agents by which wrongness is perpetuated in the world."
Get a grip!

[frazzled]

23. Schools should care

I mean, honestly ... this is a discussion about improving schools. That is third-grade grammar.

[stopschoolpaddling]

24. Do everyone a favor

and get over yourself.

[frazzled]

25. Well, let me just say ...

I can see what your problem is. You should not be involved in a discussion about any aspect of education. The end.

[stopschoolpaddling]

30. What is my problem?

If the insignificant misspelling of the word its (it's) is so disturbing to you and warrants the slamming of a single mother of 3 elementary children, I extend my apologies to you. I'm sure you will find more appropriate people who never slip up with imperfect grammar to discuss education with. Using check spelling now... one word changed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. What kind of policies?

[zipplewrath]

3. Class size?

I'm not sure what restrictions you want to assume. Class size would be the first thing. Personally I'd shut down every atheletic team in the place. Parents can form neighborhood teams if they want their kid to play football. Strangely, school uniforms have a positive effect as well. In alot of classes, I'd form "aide" programs where the more advanced kids help tutor the ones struggling. It actually helps both students advance. Individual "performance" plans could be written as well, for each student, identifying the weaknesses and strengths as well as the individual challenges that each student faces (place to study at home, learning disability, access to study materials, etc.).

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Individual schools don't get to determine class size

Districts decide class size and often it is based on state guidelines.

[zipplewrath]

5. Not entirely true

I understand what you mean and it's why I asked about the specific assumptions here. In some states, an individual school can create multiple class sizes within the bounds of their staff and student population. There is little if anything they can do about their total population, or generally the number of teachers they have.

[noamnety]

7. I agree with much of that.

School uniforms don't work with the atmosphere we're trying to promote at our location, but I understand the rationale behind them.

I am glad I'm at a place without athletics, that's an example of something that might work well for some students, but for others it promotes a culture that's not conducive to learning. The drain on resources is fairly large.

School layout makes a difference in behavior - not that schools can necessarily modify that after the fact, but long straight hallways promote one type of behavior, twisting passages another. (Long hallways = more yelling and running).

Class size is sometimes determined by a district, sometimes by the number and type of course offerings. Overall school size is an issue that most are ill prepared or unwilling to address, but all the same overall school size affects many aspects of a school environment.

Excessive paperwork requirements are rarely embraced by teachers, ditto for staff meetings. I'd rather have online meetings in a private forum than have to sit for hours listening to people rehash the same crap topics that get rehashed every year by new administrations. (Please for the love of god don't make the teachers spend multiple staff meetings every year obsessing over each syllable in a two sentence mission statement.)

A lot of the problems at schools are structural and systemic and (except for the "evil charters") schools just don't have the authority at their level to address those types of problems (overall school size, whether or not sports are offered, etc).

Rambling here - but also people (students and teachers) like to have ownership of their work and workspaces. Here, we have some common rules for common spaces (no food in the school outside the cafeteria), but teachers are allowed to set their own rules in the classroom - so I have a sandwich station in my room. I let kids paint my walls or glue things to them, and I don't need principal permission on that. As long as I'm doing something reasonable it's considered my own space.

[stopschoolpaddling]

8. Small class size can't be it.

Here in rural America, our class sizes are very small. I don't think we even have one class with more than 20 students. Kindergarten has 9 students and 2nd grade has 15 this year. Still, our schools are turning out more high school dropouts than ever. My state ranks 48th. Our area has twice the median average dropout rate. Why?

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. That's just your state; small class sizes work very well in some areas

Urban areas for example.

This points out the fallacy of national standards. A one size fits all approach is just not in our kids' best interest.

[stopschoolpaddling]

11. Yes, you are probably right but as a layman

and parent, how do I go about figuring out what is going so wrong? Any suggestions?

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. What is wrong? What are the problems you are most concerned about?

[stopschoolpaddling]

21. Any school that feels it has to resort to hitting children with a wooden paddle

has to have some serious issues that are setting the stage for student dysfunction. As is our drop out rate is phenomenal. Less than 5% of students from our school will go on to college. The teachers scream at the children whenever they are frustrated with them. As for academics, one example is that my son who is eight and in 2nd grade can add numbers like 137 + 152 and 225 + 238 in his head in less than 30 seconds is required to do worksheets with 100 problems on it ranging from 7+0= 9+1= with the biggest answer being 17 or 18. When I asked that he do some advanced math, the teacher has him do it "on top" of the other work. The other day I found out the 2nd grade P.E. class was run entirely by two of their high school seniors. What are they running a daycare or a school? I just found out last week that if I wanted to have lunch with my children at the school I would need to make an appointment. I dropped in unannounced anyway and will continue to do so. The list could go on forever but why? What makes this school the way it is?

[noamnety]

20. Something the school should have already done:

exit polling.

We do that for students who leave us. We can be on the sidelines second guessing why they are dropping out, but the most direct way to get the answer is to do an exit poll when they leave. You could also ask the school to do an online survey for their existing students. We do those periodically - what one of my former bosses referred to as "how to you like me now? surveys."

You can ask some targeted questions: Does the curriculum feel relevant to my life? But also some open ended questions where they write out their own answer.

I grew up in a rural area where most of the graduates seemed to end up in farming. We had a strong focus in agriculture classes and an annual vo-ag fair at the school where we got out of classes to go look at everything. For me that wasn't helpful as it wasn't a field I was interested in, but for many of the kids it made sense. It certainly had more relevance to their lives than must of the NCLB material. Sample social studies test question:

Which of the following factors led the United States to declare war on Spain in 1898?
1. sinking of the Lusitania
2. Spanish violation of the Monroe Doctrine
3. yellow journalism
4. European intervention in the Caribbean

That's nice historical trivia, but the kids know that's not something they need to know in life, they are being forced to memorize and regurgitate it for the sake of making some teacher or administrator look good. Of course that's disenfranchising. I think there are groups of students who thrive on abstract knowledge and test taking - they like to prove they are the smartest and get the best GPA, and there are groups of kids who like to work with their hands and want to know how to do things. Sometimes we get kids that are really well rounded in that regard, but often the disengaged ones fall in that latter group. They might flunk out, but they can fix their uncle's computer or a lawn tractor - it's not that they are stupid or incapable of learning.

So maybe that needs to be part of the how-do-you-like-me-now survey too, what sorts of things the kids find most useful in their classes, what sorts of things do they find least useful. I found that pulling from pop culture sometimes helps me. Kids hate to take tests. Kids like to do online quizzes. I switched all my tests a few years back to computer based, no more filling in pencil bubbles, it feels more like a facebook style quiz, and as a result students didn't get the same kind of test anxiety. Some of them told me it was "fun."

[cjbgreen]

27. assess how students access information

Provide teachers with student information on present mastery levels and how students access and retain information and provide teachers with adequate time to plan lessons and provide students with supportive feedback. Wouldn't it be nice!

[YvonneCa]

10. Well, I'm curious about your name here. Is school paddling legal...

...where you live? It's illegal in California. If it's legal...I'd start there.

[mzteris]

13. states with corporal punishment

http://law.jrank.org/pages/11816/Corporal-Punishment-in-Public-Schools.html

note, however: "The following chart covers only state statutes regarding corporal punishment. It should be noted that there are also local rules that authorize the use of corporal punishment or that require parental consent before corporal punishment can be imposed upon a child. Local school districts, and even individual schools, often have their own policies and procedures for handling disciplinary problems.

Read more: Corporal Punishment in Public Schools laws - Information on the law about Corporal Punishment in Public Schools http://law.jrank.org/pages/11816/Corporal-Punishment-in-Public-Schools.html#ixzz0f4Ryqs7b

[stopschoolpaddling]

14. Yes it is legal but parents have the right to refuse it being used

on their children. My son's first Kindergarten teacher brought a paddle to the classroom in the second week of school and explained to the class what it was used for. (Here is what can happen to you if you don't behave.) When I complained, I was told first by the principle and then by the superintendent that the teacher had done nothing wrong.
I subsequently moved my children to another school district and published two editorials on corporal punishment in our local newspaper, the second of which showed that our county had not only lied in it's records of corporal punishment but that it lead the entire state in the number of incidents per capita. Sadly, I received almost no response save two parents who claimed that paddling was reducing the number of children who would later wind up in jail.
I don't know if it had anything to do with their decision but the superintendent's contract was not renewed at a school board meeting that was held one day after my letter was published. He still has another year and as far as I know the principles who commit the act are still operating in the usual manner.
Our new school doesn't have as many incidents but they still use it. I've even gone so far as to inform my children's teachers that in the unlikely event that any of my children have cause to even visit the principle, I must be called and contacted before any such meeting could take place. The reason I give is that I believe corporal punishment is a crime and anyone who is capable of committing the act should be in jail and I do not allow my children to come in contact with would-be convicts whether they are drug-pushers or principles.
Anyway, I am planning to write another editorial, this one to be published in the next county over where my children now attend school addressing corporal punishment and encouraging this county to set the right example and stop it's use. I was hoping to add something to it that would help better their schools which is where I am going with the posts but maybe I should just stick to this issue first. Thanks.

[YvonneCa]

17. Good for you! That is wonderful...corporal punishment does not belong in ...

...schools. States that haven't changed state law are operating with a 'flat-earth' policy. PrincipALs using it are caught in the middle until the law is changed. I would suggest you continue what you are doing...and give some statistics about your state being totally in the minority on this issue.

As an elementary teacher who believes our children should be taught conflict resolution skills from an early age...there is no justification for such a policy. How do you teach resolution of conflict without violence as a perpetrator of violence??? HOW???

Good luck to you...and welcome to DU. :)

[stopschoolpaddling]

18. Thanks for the support,

it hasn't been a pretty issue to address in an area where most of the parents want their children to be beaten if they misbehave. This is the reality, the parents here support it. One parent emailed me and told me to "shut the hell up" about what happened in my son's class. Needless to say, my children and I lost some friends over it but now we know who are friends are.

[YvonneCa]

22. Sometimes doing the difficult thing is doing the right...

...thing. And that takes courage...it's harder than 'going with the flow.' Kudos to you for standing up for your beliefs...ESPECIALLY ones that affect children. They can't always stand up for themselves. :toast:

[noamnety]

28. Thank you for taking a stand against corporal punishment.

I have a problem even with schools that allow parents to opt their kids out of being hit. That doesn't shield the kids from witnessing adults in authority positions using violence against children. Being a witness to it can itself be traumatic, and places the child in a position where they are required to be a passive observer of abuse. That's not good enough.

On a side note, I think you may be a small bit unrealistic in requiring that you be contacted before your child is sent to the principal's office. On the few occasions where I've had to send a kid out of my room, it's been because the student is right here and now disrupting the learning process for other students. Your children might never rise to that level of being disruptive, almost none of my students do, but the teachers do need the capability to remove a student from their room from time to time and aren't always in a position to chat on the phone while a disruption is occurring, especially if it's related to fighting or endangering other students. Additionally, my policy is that I won't call parents to discuss their child while other students are in the room listening - and I hope other teachers follow that same etiquette. That's a privacy issue. So calling while a class is going on ... that just doesn't happen.

[stopschoolpaddling]

29. This is a very small school so I think the teacher probably would

but my point in telling her that was exactly the reason you state. My daughter told me a boy in her class was sent to the principle's office where he was paddled and came back to the classroom holding his bottom and crying for close to half an hour. I told the teacher if it ever happens again that she would need to make sure that my children don't know where he's going and not be allowed back in the class until he was calm (if that's possible after being assaulted). I told her that in accordance with my beliefs it was subjecting my children to be witnesses of a crime. She then admitted that she sometimes references the principle and trips to her office as a means to control her class and she now knows not to do this either when my children are present.
Their teacher told me that their principle rarely paddles. I told her in no uncertain terms that I was not able to fathom it, much less muster even a kernel of respect for anyone who was capable of doing it even once.
Ironically, I don't spank my children and my two 2nd graders are both on the honor list, all A's, and my son who is in Kindergarten is "unbelievably well-behaved and attentive during class". None of my children have ever been in trouble. Knock on wood, LOL, I hope it stays this way!

[mzteris]

12. it's difficult for "a" school

to make changes if they're governed by a schoolboard. The district/state laws inhibit change on any scale. For an individual school under the auspices of a traditional school board, there is nothing they can do that will "cost money" because the school itself has no control over $$.

Atmosphere. Support. Encouraging/facilitating parental involvement.

For real change to occur - which most schools can't do - start with smaller classrooms and smaller schools. Get a handle on the discipline and the relationships and you can concentrate on teaching/learning.

[stopschoolpaddling]

15. I think I'm beginning to realize that the best and only action I can

take will be at home and in close monitoring of what goes on at school in regards to my children alone. With diligence and by example, I have to teach them or unteach them as the case may be what they either learn that I deem wrong or don't learn from a public education.

[mzteris]

16. to be honest -

that's what all parents should be doing anyway.

[Name removed]

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