the MSNBC TX guy was a moron, but from a Foucauldian perspective, he's right

[zazen]

I teared up during Obama's speech. We (agnostics that we are) thank the God/the universe for Obama during blessing at our dinner (when we have sit-down dinners). I love the guy. This has nothing to do with him.

But the point the otherwise moron brought up from Texas is actually one that ought to be made more and is supported by work in the area of "the rhetoric of therapeutic discourse" and is a research interest of mine.

I CAN'T STAND HOW SCHOOLS FORCE CHILDREN TO REVEAL PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THEMSELVES AND THEN GRADE AND/OR PUNISH THEM FOR IT.

Obama's "lesson plan" wasn't out of the ordinary. That's the problem. My girls have been constantly asked to describe all sorts of personal feelings by teachers in utterly inappropriate settings. God forbid you express a feeling like anger or rage or feeling violent or you'll be sent to the counselor or suspended, esp if you're male. My 8-year-old was told she couldn't draw blood dripping from a picture of a dragon being killed that she was illustrating related to a book she was reading, because it was too "violent." Even the "prompts" for the 4th grade end of year writing test are to write something personal about your life, and YOU'RE GRADED ON THE CONTENT, not just the grammar.

Teachers are not trained therapists. A lot of school counselors aren't even trained that well. This is a problem in college writing instruction too. I wrote my master's thesis on it, from a feminist/Foucauldian perspective. Foucault wrote 20? years ago that we've "become a singularly confessing society." Sometimes people think they're helping kids by getting them to express, express, express, but what they're doing is violating their personal boundaries and sometimes, when asking someone to recall a trauma, one is _re_ traumatizing them by forcing them to engage in public disclosure.

There's a misunderstanding that there's some core truth way deep inside that's screaming to get out, but when people--especially children--are forced to disclose something, anything, that seems personal, in order to fulfill some social expectation, that act of expressing becomes an act of disciplining discourse, of guiding in advance what's acceptable to say under the guise of providing freedom. It's like disgusting corporate retreats where you're forced to disclose something, but everyone knows if you speak the real truth you'll get hammered back in the workplace, if not outright fired.

Kids learn that they have to fake these disclosing activities, and I encourage my children too, now. I say, figure out how you personally feel, but either frame it with more distance or else make something up. Setting school and career goals is one thing, but a kid's weight, and eating, and feelings, and insecurities, are none of the school's business, unless a parent goes to the school to ask for help or children are so clearly abused that they need social services.

[villager]

1. it's an interesting perspective -- I'm just sorry the "un-rec" robots got to it first

*their* rote behavior becomes steadily more incomprehensible.

That said, yes, the mass of schools claim to want to "allow" personal expression, but, of course, are generally terrified of it in any authentic form...

[zazen]

4. you're right--they really are terrified of authentic expression & ill-equipped to handle it

Didn't know I was "unrecommended." That's so ironic. The faculty who supported my thesis and do work in this area are some of the most politically radical people I know, far more than most of the folks on this board.

[countingbluecars]

2. What would you have children

write about if not personal narratives? They write about what they know.

[zazen]

3. I'd have them use their imagination?

If they choose to write about a summer vacation, fine, but forced disclosure of personal feelings in a non-therapeutic setting, particularly of children who don't know how to set these boundaries in the first place, is a violation.

I don't see how people don't get that.

[countingbluecars]

5. How absurd!

Kids want to talk/write about themselves and their families. What a boring educational setting it would be if a teacher did not allow kids to share what is important to them. Absurd!

[zazen]

8. when did I say "disallow?" I said, do not coerce disclosure. Big difference.

[Warpy]

6. A more concrete example might be instructive

because I'm having trouble grasping just how such an assignment would be made.

[zazen]

7. "talk about a time when you had a conflict with a friend and how you resolved it"

Or, you're all required to go on a field trip that our family can barely afford. Then, you have to write stories talking about how it transformed you. If you say, it didn't--it was mismanaged and contrived and I can't change my entire life in a weekend because you think I'm supposed to have this scripted experience--you will anger the teachers and get a bad grade.

I've got dozens of examples.

A college freshman writing class asked men and women to write an essay responding to a text about rape and talk about what it would feel like if they were raped. For a rape victim, not so good.

[Warpy]

9. You're right, some of those are intrusive

but the ones about resolving conflict have a method behind the madness.

It's a good thing I was never given that particular post field trip assignment. I'd have singed the teacher's nose hair writing about a couple of the worse ones. Adults do a great job of ruining the experience, stifling curiosity and creativity and going for robotic responses on handouts. My assigned writing would have mentioned that.

I'm sure it would have earned a place in infamy along with my less than complimentary book reports on saccharine rubbish written for kids.

Schools are trying to step in for parents who work full time and are too exhausted to teach things like empathy at home. It's a laudable ambition, I guess, but you're right about its intrusive nature.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. My thoughts exactly

What a silly OP.