College for all: Is Obama’s goal attainable?

[exboyfil]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29445201/

In his address to a joint session of Congress on Tuesday, President Barack Obama called for every American to pursue some form of education beyond high school.

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Is the president's goal realistic? And what would it take to attain it? Here are their responses.

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Richard Vedder, Ohio University professor and member of the Commission on the Future of Higher Education assembled by former Education Secretary Margaret Spellings:


I think it is sheer fantasy to believe we will lead the world in the percent of young adults with college degrees by 2020. More generally, the president's approach is the equivalent of dropping dollars out of airplanes over student homes and college campuses. That will not change colleges' behavior to make them less arrogant and elite — and more affordable, efficient and accountable.

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I have a 7th and 5th grader, and my most pressing concern is saving enough for them to get what my wife got from her parents (at least until I married her and took over the responsibility). My wife got all of her tuition and fees paid by her parents and about half of her room and board. That is my goal for my children, but it is much harder since college tuition has grown much faster than the inflation rate (and surely much faster than my wages).

As far as I can tell I am basically saving at 70% of par for education (between the crash taking down my already woefully inadequate 529 and college administrators talking about raising tuition 25% on those with the ability to pay and using the funds to pay for more need based scholarships). My family is just awash in cash to afford to pay between $15,000-$20,000/yr. for a state school education times two (at today's rates).

'What if we were to increase our tuition by $2,000 a year, but require that every penny go into need-based financial aid?' Iowa State University President Gregory Geoffroy said. 'Would that impact this issue of affordability and student debt? You're making those who can pay, pay more for those who can't pay.'

As part of Obama's educational improvements I would like to see him propose a national prepaid tuition plan secured by the Universities that receive Federal dollars. I don't think this is too much to ask for the middle class. Right now the Universities and states have no skin in the game in terms of holding down tuition increases especially with this additional Federal money flowing in.

[Syrinx]

1. If they can do it in Europe

I would think the United States Of America can.

[exboyfil]

4. Streaming by aptitude seems to be prevalent in Europe

In most cases your direction in life is decided at a very early age. From a selfishness standpoint I would be all for this approach because my daughters are straight A and 93+ percentile in all subjects (they will be able to gain access to any of our three public universities in any program that they wish). Actually this approach creates resentment in Germany in which recent immigrants feel they are getting the short end of the stick. Also working class families also feel the higher education system is not serving them.

In the U.S. we try to balance social concerns with access to universities. You need to look no further than UC Berkeley to see what happens. Everyone wants to go to UC Berkeley. It has the third highest ranked University program in the nation, and it has 1/6th the tuition cost of most of its peers (MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech). Its tuition is even less than half of Uof Illinois - the next highest rated public university in engineering.

It is a constant battle in the admissions process into the UC system because of its excellence and cost.

Of course Germany is now instituting tuition at some of its universities. An interesting article to consider.

Germany: New university tuition fees threaten students with poverty
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/mar2007/tuit-m10.shtml


Another interesting article. I am not sure I buy the numbers but here it is:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3633837,00.html
German Education Spending Below Other Nations: OECD Report

The United States comes out ahead of Europe as a whole, according OECD. American universities on average spent 24,370 dollars (17,200 euros) per student per year in 2005, compared with $10,474 among 19 OECD European countries, which are also EU members.
I wonder if the numbers have student/family payments included in the $24,370.

Another tidbit:

The highest spenders on educational institutions are Denmark, Iceland, Korea and the United States, with at least 7% of GDP accounted for by public and private spending on educational institutions.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

14. Which part of Europe has 100% going into further/higher education?

Here in the UK, the government has set a target of 50% attending university, which is ridiculously high.

Unless I've misunderstood what is meant by "beyond high school", 100% staying in education to that level is just fantasy, I think.

[elleng]

2. 'Some form of education beyond high school'

is NOT college.

There are HOW many fields that make use of employees with studies beyond h.s? Just about EVERYTHING a person would do for pay could benefit from advanced education, and businesses in the area should be happy to intern and employ such students.

[MrModerate]

3. I detect a wee bit of resentment . . .

That the author is going to have to pay good money to send his kids off to some "liberal" institution that will turn them from the true path of conservatism and return them to him in 4 (or 6) years as dyed-in-the-wool progressives.

His distinction between those with the ability to pay and those without is telling. If you have the ability to pay, doesn't that imply that you, well, have the ability to pay?

True fact, however, that funding college educations is way out of control -- not the least because of the the sweetheart usury that private sector providers of student loans engage in, squeezing interest from students while getting huge subsidies from the government for the privilege of doing so. Another one of those conservative "the market is always right" sort of ideas (especially if you slip the market a few million simoleons under the table in the process).

[exboyfil]

5. Where do you get the resentment idea

I sacrifice for my children, and I am not talking about wanting anything from the government other than maybe having the states/universities step up to the plate in terms of out of control public education cost growth through prepaid tuition. I see the path for my children for a college education to be more difficult than my own. Do you think my desire to save for 8 years tuition and possibly half of their room and board is resentment? I do not want them to be debt slaves when they come out of college.

My greatest satisfaction is putting money into a 529 for my children. I don't have toys in my life. My hobbies are very inexpensive (I mostly run or visit on the computer like now). Any money that I spend is usually something for the children, and I try to make those expenditures matter (ie things that will improve their life like music lessons/instruments, funding for productive hobbies, or fund raisers for their groups (school, Scouts, 4H etc).

I do recognize reality, and one reality is tuition inflation. With all the Federal largesse flowing I made one modest proposal (to tie it to prepaid tuition).

I think you want to have more people like me that want to plan the best for their children.

[MrModerate]

9. I interpolated the resentment from the following statement:

"That will not change colleges' behavior to make them less arrogant and elite — and more affordable, efficient and accountable."

It seemed as if some of that was typical code for "liberal professors taking a crack at my values."

Perhaps I ran too far down a path of my own paving. If so, I take it back.

[exboyfil]

10. I did not write that - it was a quote from the article

Since I deal in the world of Engineering and my daughters are most likely both going into Science/Math, I really don't have a dog in that fight. What I do think is important is that all reasonable ideas be presented (ie not kook science or real hate speech or advocation of violence). I had significant political disagreements with my undergraduate Business Law teacher, but I respected him and he respected me. That is the way that it should be. I have no fear about the ideas being presented to my daughters. I want them to think and be challenged. I would have a problem with a professor that says you should think as such, and my daughters refuse to think as such and are punished for their independence.

We hear about the kooks - I got to think that most professors enjoy lively debate of ideas and do not feel threatened by being challenged. That is the way truth is distilled through the crucible of debate. That is the bummer about Engineering - too little opportunity to engage in hearty debate.

[MrModerate]

11. Having barely survived an engineering curriculum myself . . .

some uncounted decades ago, the bummer is that your brain might explode at any time due to overpressure.

As a father of daughters, you might at least be consoled by the fact that they're unlikely to get in trouble with their male peers -- there won't be any time for a social life!

Or maybe that's changed, too, since I was in school. Or perhaps it was just me . . .

[Riley18]

6. Florida has a prepaid tuition program for state colleges. My daughter is

enrolled, and I pay $90.00 a month. Her plan covers full tuition for a 4 year state university. I think having a national prepaid tuition plan is a great idea.

[exboyfil]

7. Florida's plan is great

I have been studying all the 529s (investment and prepaid), and Florida is the best hands down. What is happening in Florida is that the prepaid plan may be too generous. It serves a useful service of holding down the base tuitiion rate, but Florida's public universities are underpriced when compared to other state schools. That appears to be changing as the legislature starts tackling the issue. In the end somebody has got to pay. UF (24), UCF (80), and FSU (92) all have national engineering reputations and are in the top 100 schools. My mom lives about an 1 1/2 from Gainesville, and I would have no problem seeing my girls as Gators. Who knows maybe I may get a job in Florida before they start college. My wife may have something to say about that since we live in her hometown.

You are getting a great deal and access to some wonderful universities. I wish your daughter the best.

[SheilaT]

8. More to the point

you are doing what too many parents fail to consider: you are putting aside money every single month for her education.

[litlady]

12. Education can be affordable if done the right way.

Community college here is 20 dollars per credit. Two years of that and most can get into a four year without issue. And of course most state schools are affordable. The UC system is 10k or less per year if a resident. I actually regret going the private college way now and the student loans I accrued in the process.

[paulsby]

13. the question isn't only

"is it realistic?"

the other question is "is it a good idea"?

i know plenty of people who never went to school beyond high school and are perfectly happy with that.

some work with me and make 6 figures.

i think we should make sure people who want to go and who have done the preparatory work are assisted if they need financial means, etc. but why should EVERY american pursue education beyond high school? unless he is counting the military, or trades as "education"?