BCS vs AP

[lazarus]

So, has anyone noticed this? You now have references to the "National Championship", which is the AP poll winner, and the "BCS Title".

USC is not going for a threepeat, they didn't win 2 years ago, they won the AP. Oh, wait, it's the National Championship, so that's the AP, so they are going for a threepeat. LSU is forgotten.

Back in the old days, if the AP had one team at #1, and the Coaches' Poll had another, you had co-champions.

This is almost like boxing. If one team wins the "National Championship" via the AP, and another wins the "BCS Title", could we then have a unification bout?

Why not drop all this nonsense and just do a playoff like every other sport in the known universe does it?

[northzax]

1. what fun would that be?

no one spends hours discussing the power polls in baseball, or hockey, or the NFL, or NBA. frankly, it gives us something to talk about, year round, and complain and moan about. if everything was solved, then what's the fun in that?

[davidinalameda]

2. how would you go about getting the teams for the playoffs

I can't imagine the Sun Belt conference winner getting an automatic bid to the playoffs

[lazarus]

4. Honestly?

My solution a radical realignment of Division I football that will never happen.

First, there are WAY too many teams that purport to be Div. I schools that aren't. We cut them down to, say, 64. Split these up into 4 regional "superconferences" of 16 teams. Each superconference is split into two divisions of 8. Division champs are determined by record. They play for the conference championship.

The 4 conference champions then play in a standard 2 round tourney. Seeding can be done by a selection committee, just like the NCAA basketball tourney.

Other options? Get rid of the blasted polls altogether. The coaches' poll is a joke, everyone knows the coaches don't even watch all the games. The AP has history, but has pulled out of the BCS. This new Rasmussen or whatever poll they add to the BCS to replace the AP is hilarious, a team with no wins got votes a couple of weeks ago.

While I'm ranting, I don't like having the point spread affect rankings, either. They took it out of the BCS, sort of, this season, but it's still there in the bias of the folks doing the polls.

My main rant here, though, to start the thread was the way the AP and the BCS are being treated. The strangest? Before the Bama/LSU game, CBS was listing it as #5 LSU vs #4 Bama (AP). After the game, the graphics read #5 LSU defeated #3 Bama (BCS). Odd time to make the switch.

If the two rankings don't match, confusion reigns. One day it's the AP ranking mentioned, the next it's the BCS. Bah.

Either dump the BCS and go back to the old days, or dump the BCS and go to a tournament, the way every other sport does it, including Division 1-AA and 1-AAA.

[Awsi Dooger]

3. No one is forgetting LSU

Do you honestly believe if LSU had won the AP poll in 2003 and then done what USC has managed the last two years that LSU fans and the media wouldn't claim they were going for three straight? It's just like Gore/Bush 2000, or whether Supreme Court nominees should be required to reveal mindset on specific issues, the argument forms depending on which side you're on.

USC should not be punished due to an incompetent BCS formula. The Trojans were ranked first in BOTH polls prior to the 2003 bowl games. The current BCS formula insures a team in that position is also #1 in the BCS rankings. In 2003 the formula was so pathetic there was no such guarantee so USC dropped to 3rd in the BCS rankings. It was ridiculously weighted toward computers and supposed strength of schedule at that point as opposed to subjective logic via the voters.

Likewise, in 2000 the BCS formula elevated FSU over Miami into the title game against Oklahoma, despite Miami's lead over FSU in the polls, a straight-up victory over the Seminoles and identical record. A year later the BCS formula was changed so that Miami would have finished ahead of FSU and played in the title game.

That's all the BCS has been, a horribly conceived formula that is simply backfit to correct known mistakes. After that 2000 debacle I participated in a web chat with a BCS official. I specifically asked about three potential troubling future scenarios and whether they had been considered. One was very similar to USC/LSU 2003. The BCS official staggered and hesitated and eventually admitted none of those had been evaluated. I'm sure there are other potential land mines that will only be eliminated once one of them explodes the previous season.

[lazarus]

5. I"m not out to punish them

just to say that they're going for a threepeat of the AP poll, which I didn't think was the National Championship. I thought the NC was the winner of the BCS title game. I had no idea that we now had competing national championship bodies, like boxing.

[Awsi Dooger]

7. IMO, a much worse example occured in 1974

Oklahoma was the dominant team that year, one of the best teams in college football history.

The Sooners were a unanimous number one in the middle of the season in both polls. Then the UPI coaches poll decided to change the rules in the middle of the season and declare any team on probation was no longer eligible to be in its poll. So Oklahoma literally went from unanimous #1 one week to non-existent the following week.

That was actually the year USC benefitted, not 2003. The Trojans won the UPI poll even though they had a loss and a tie. Oklahoma finished 11-0 and won the AP poll. I give USC full credit for 2003 but no chance in hell they earned anything legit in 1974, other than a Rose Bowl victory.

The BCS came around after you had situations like 1991, when Miami and Washington were the two dominant teams but the conference tie-ins didn't allow them to meet, Miami won big in the Orange Bowl and Washington the same in the Rose Bowl. They split the polls, which was only fair. A year earlier there was a split title between Colorado and Georgia Tech so when it happened two years in a row there was fury for a change. That inspired the Bowl Coalition which turned into the BCS a few years later.

[mduffy31]

6. Just one thing

The #1 spot in the coaches poll is the one that is contractually guaranteed to the winner of the BCS championship game.

[Awsi Dooger]

8. That's exactly right

The other poll has always maintained a right to vote on merit, not a forced vote.

It's not well remembered that 2000 would have produced the same result as 2003, if double digit favorite FSU had defeated Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. Oklahoma was the only unbeaten and entered the bowls #1, but Miami at #2 was considerably ahead of #3 FSU. Once the Canes won the Sugar Bowl big over Florida, they actually had to root for FSU to defeat Oklahoma to claim a share of the national title. When Oklahoma won it became a mute point but no question Miami would have split the title with FSU had the Seminoles prevailed.

[nickgutierrez]

9. Playoffs done the easy way: Top 4 BCS teams.

#4 at #1, #3 at #2.

Winners play for the title.

One extra game added to the schedule, no ambiguity.

[Robeson]

10. Sounds simple enough to me.