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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 06:56 PM
Original message
Boxing: Williams vs Martinez
November 20
At Atlantic City, N.J. (HBO): Sergio Martinez vs. Paul Williams, 12 rounds, rematch, for Martinez's Ring/WBC middleweight title.




The rematch between Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams promises to be one of the most interesting – as well as most important – bouts in 2010. The pair first met on December 5, 2009, in Atlantic City, with Williams taking a majority decision after 12 tough rounds. That decision was disputed, not only because the fight was so close that it could have gone either way, but because one judge scored it a ridiculous 119 to 110 for Williams. Another judge had it 115 to 113 for Williams, while the third had it a draw, at 114 to 114.

Williams had been frustrated earlier, in his attempts to get a shot at then-middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik. Their proposed fight had been postponed three times by the inactive champion from Ohio, reportedly due to a staph infection in Pavlik's hand. Eventually, after considering other options, HBO convinced Williams to fight Martinez.

Martinez, who turned professional in 1997, certainly deserved a shot at a top contender such as Paul Williams. He had fought his first seventeen bouts in Argentina, before coming to Las Vegas to fight a 20-3 prospect named Antonio Margarita. Martinez was TKOed in the seventh round, as a result of the taller Margarito's aggressive body attack.

Martinez returned to Argentina, where he fought soft opposition for a couple of years, and then moved to Spain. There, he continued to beat the second-tier European fighters. He also had a couple fights in England, and one in Ireland, but was unable to secure bouts against top contenders.

Martinez came back to the US in 2007, but after easily defeating a young contender, had difficulty getting any fights. He went back to Spain to fight a punching bag with a 3-34-2 record; then returned to the US. After beating some C-level opponents, he finally got a bout against former welterweight champion Kermit Cintron.

With a 50-2 record (his only loses were to Margarito), Cintron was expected to become the next junior middleweight champion. However, Martinez was too much for Cintron that night, and had the fight been in any state other than Florida, he would have had a KO victory. Martinez decked Cintron, who stayed down for the full count. However, after getting back on his feet, Cintron convinced referee Frank Santora, Jr., that he went down from a foul, and was allowed to continue. Only in boxing! Then, after twelve relatively one-sided rounds, where one honest judged scored it a 116-110 victory for Martinez, two other judges scored it 113-113, Martinez was literally robbed twice: of a KO and lop-sided decision.

Paul Williams understood what it means to be unable to secure top fights. In part, this was due to Paul's build: some sources list him as 6' 1” tall, while others have him at 6' 3”, and he has a 82” reach. No one in the top of the welterweight division was the least bit interested in getting into the ring with a guy this size, who is also fast and can average over 100 punches per round. Williams had devastated tough Sharmba Mitchell in four rounds, and then easily outpointed Antonio Margarito in 12, to take one of the welterweight titles. Both Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather, Jr., refused offers to fight Williams.

Williams took a warm-up fight against Carlos Quintana (24-1) in February of 2008. He entered the ring an over-confident and under-trained champion. After 12 rounds, he left as an ex-champion. The experience taught him a valuable lesson, however, and four months later, he knocked Quintana out in the first round. Before their first bout, Williams had compared himself to the great light heavyweight champion Bob Foster; in the second fight, he actually reminded me of the legendary knockout artist.

Williams continued to impress in his next three fights, including his convincing November 11, 2009 decision win over Ronald “Winky” Wright. One judge gave Paul all twelve rounds, while the other two gave Wright one round. It was during this period when Williams was attempting to get Pavlik into the ring. Instead, he ended up fighting Martinez.

Since that first fight, both Martinez and Williams have each had one bout. On April 17, Martinez won the middleweight title by decisioning Kelly Pavlik. And a month later, Williams was awarded a 4-round technical decision over Kermit Cintron. While Martinez looked outstanding in his fight, Williams was having difficulty against Cintron, before Kermit was injured in a freak accident.

Going into Saturday's fight, Martinez is the defending champion. Frequently, new champions gain a level of confidence that allows them to reach new heights. Sergio Martinez will need to be even better than he was a year ago, to keep his title. Likewise, Paul Williams will have to be better prepared, and far more focused, if he is to take that title from the champion. Because it is very likely that both fighters will actually be significantly better on Saturday, than they were a year ago, makes this fight a toss-up. It could also make it the Fight of the Year for 2010.
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't wait for this fight!
I would pay to see this fight. This may be the fight of the year if it's anything like their last fight. Who do you have in this fight H2O? I've got Williams by UD but i hope it's closer. It's a shame that these two fighter will fight anyone at anytime, are good ambassadors for the sport but don't get the attention they should get. I hope the casual boxing fan watches this fight because these are the two type of fighters that boxing needs to expose to the mainstream.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I visited an old pug
today .... a guy who I used to spar a lot, and who was on many of the same fight cards that I was on. He is down on his luck these days, and doesn't have the same mental capacity that he once enjoyed. But mention boxing, and he picks right up.

I asked him what he thought would happen? He said that it was one of a very few fights at that level where it was 50-50. I think that a strong case can be made for either guy winning, as well. But, I think that Paul Williams is more capable of making the adjustments he needs to, to pull out a close decision win.

Williams got tired from the unexpected difficulty last time. Martinez got tired from fighting a very big, strong fighter. Though I'm not really familiar with William's trainer, I think any qualified person could help Paul prepare to make those adjustments for this fight. Being taller, with an uncanny reach, Williams can let Sergio come at him, then follow him when he tries to move away.

At longer range, Paul should simply forget that fast-moving head. As Margarito demonstrated, Martinez is human, and prone to slowing down if he takes body punches. When Sergio gives those cute angles by bending, a body shot will also effect his balance.

Perhaps most important, of course, is the jab. A fast opponent requires a double jab. Feint and jab. Everything off that jab.

Sergio has a style that might be fine-tuned, but making any big change would be risky. Does he stay in the pocket more? There's an advantage of being inside those long arms, but Williams has a yunger man's physical strength and endurance. Martinez doesn't like getting hit, at all. In toe-to-toe fights, both guys take a lot of punishment.

Martinez makes really good use of the entire ring. I'm sure his people have insisted on a tight canvas, over little padding. A soft ring is much harder to move on, and tires a person out faster. He needs to come in at angles, land his punches, and move out low and to the side. Although he decked Paul in the first fight, I don't think he can afford to think he has a puncher's chance. He should try to keeping Williams spinning, and not let him get set to punch.

Like any high-quality contest, who makes the least mistakes has an advantage; while who is better able to capitalize on his opponent's mistakes has an even bigger advantage.

Good luck to both of them.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tonight's the night.
This is going to be a heck of a fight!
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Only 4 more hours
I saw on your Pacquiao post you streamed that fight. Are you streaming this fight tonight?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. My younger son
got the night off work. For over twenty years, he and I watched every fight together. His current job hasn't allowed for that. It might sound strange -- but damn! am I happy that he'll be here tonight! So, I'll probably be watching HBO and focused on the tape of Pac Man vs Margarito, then Williams vs Martinez, with him. But, if not during the fight, I'll be here right after it's over.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Their coming
into the ring.

My son got called in for work late tonight. So I'm here.

I think Martinez has an edge going in tonight.

(I agree with Manny Steward that Williams is not 6' 1" tall. He's at least 6' 3" -- I've stood near him with my son, who is a bit over six foot tall.)
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Let's get ready to RUUUUUMMMMMMBLEEEEEE!!!
Sorry about your son getting called in. Gonna be a good fight!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Strange choice for referee.
I'd prefer a larger, more experienced ref. I hope this doesn't impact the outcome.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. After he won the
title beating Margarito, Williams talked about fighting like the great Bob Foster. Bob Foster always used a double jab.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. KO in 2!
Martinez timed him perfectly!
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. First round to Martinez
Martinez landed cleaner shots
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Big 2nd round!
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. OMG!!!!!
There has gotta be a 3rd fight!!!!! I can't wait to see it. And they say Martinez doesn't have punching power, what?!?!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah.
Decked Cintron, dropped Williams, then this. The guy has power!
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Lions_fan Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Why are they talking Martinez vs Pac-Man/Mayweather?
Martinez is to big for Pac-Man, he couldn't even make a catchweight. He's to dangerous for Mayweather, Mayweather would rather protect his record. I want to see Martinez/Williams III. Both fighters aren't afraid to fight, they would fight again tomorrow if they could.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-10 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Martinez had said
before the fight that he would fight Williams in a rubber match. I assume that he will, because their third fight would be the biggest money-maker in the middleweight division. Of course, it is possible, maybe likely, that they would each look for a fight in the spring with someone else, before facing each other again.

Bob Arum has said that there is no way Pac Man would fight either Martinez or Williams. As Max K said, as great as Manny is, he has been carefully matched -- which is a good thing. But I don't think it's likely that he would fight a big, fast opponent. Margarito is an outstanding fighter, but he is a slow, stand-up, straight-forward fighter who throws wide punches. I still think he posed a serious threat .... and Manny admitted that Antonio was stronger, and hit harder, than he anticipated.

I think that right now, excepting Mayweather's legal problems (which are indeed serious), that he'll be fighting Pacquiao on the first Saturday in May. The biggest hurdle involves the PPV split. Floyd sells more, and has the right to demand and be paid more.

If that fight isn't made, Manny will probably fight Mosley. Though old, he still poses a serious threat to Manny. Styles make fights. It's hard to say how much Floyd took out of him last year. Shain's last fight doesn't mean that much to me, because the older Mosley has always had one top fight, one let down, as happens with age.

I see that Berto is being mentioned. I like Berto, and think he is very good. He has great hand-speed. But he is too easy to hit, and really doesn't have a great chin. Manny would be strongly favored, in my book. (My son thinks Berto has a better chance than Mosley. He may be right. Either way, I doubt that fight goes six rounds.)

Did you read/hear B-Hop's interview, where he said Floyd would take Pacquiao apart? While some of his racial views are incorrect, he has a valid point about styles. I think Manny peaked against Ricky Hatton, and that his physical skills are on a slight decline. His speed has been reduced. He throws the same four or five punch combination in a predictable pattern. Worse, he lifts off his left foot when he throws the straight left. No one in recent history capitalizes on the tiny mistakes of his opponents like Floyd.

"Hit-and-don't-get-hit" isn't as popular with the casual fans as Manny's dynamic style, but it really is the name of the game. Manny hasn't faced anyone in their prime in many years now. A faster fighter who can catch him coming in creates problems for him. Plus, Margarito was able to hit him with too many jabs. Obviously, Manny has the ability to beat Floyd, and very well might. It's the one fight necessary to really determine where each of them rates in the history of the sport.
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