The Skankees Win Would Mean A Lot More If There Were A Level Playing Field In MLB

[Dinger]

They need a league of their own. Next year all the MLB farm teams (you know who they are) will have winning streaks early on, the yankees will actually lose a few games, maybe 2 or 3 in a row!, and we will wonder if things really are that out of whack in MLB. After that nonsense wears off, reality will set in, fast. That's the way it is.

[madinmaryland]

1. Baseball has become worthless to me. $crew $elig, $teinbrenner and all the rest of them.

[Yavin4]

53. 27

[bigwillq]

2. Blame MLB.

The Yankees did nothing wrong or illegal as far as the salaries are concerned. I am a Yankees fan, but 100 percent support a salary cap.
All other teams right now are free to spend the same.

[DinahMoeHum]

3. Salary cap or not, the best players will still want to play for teams like the Yankees

just like basketball players want to play for LA Lakers, or football players want to play for the Steelers, etc.

[bigwillq]

4. I 100 percent agree with that.

If Kansas City offered A-Rod 150 mill and New York did too, he would still choose NYC. Yes, money is an issue, but so is tradition and the fame. You get the big bucks, the big fame, the big headlines in the BIG CITY!!!

[TZ]

6. How are other teams supposed to win

or compete if everyone wants to only play for the Yankees cause they are good? The Yankees (as many overly dominent sports franchises) are terrible for competitive balance. Thats part of the reason people hate. They know that their teams however hard they might try cannot compete..Its a catch 22 for the small market teams especially.

[bigwillq]

8. Screw competitive balance.

You play to win. Yes, I support a salary cap, but the Yankees can't be blamed because people want to play for them because they have a winning tradition and play out of the biggest market in the world. That's just how it is.

on edit: I think the top teams in the league are very balanced. Yankees were the best team this year. But Philly was right there. Philly was a dangerous team. But you get that in all sports. You have the top tier teams, the middle branch and then the bottom dwellers.

[TZ]

11. Hell man, my NFL team used to be the antithesis of competitive balance

But I LOVE the NFL being a anyone can win kind of league. I'm really really getting tired of the same old same old in baseball. And baseball can't survive on only the Yankees, the Phillies and the Dodgers. I was so happy to see the Rays win the AL East last year. Looks like it was a fluke.

[bigwillq]

16. Since 2000

8 different MLB teams have won the World Series

Yankees 2x, Boston 2x, Arizona, Ahaheim, Florida, Chicago, St. Louis, Philly


7 Different NFL teams have won the Super Bowl
St. Louis, Baltimore, Tampa Bay, New England (3x), Pitt (2x), Indy, NY Giants


Seems pretty even to me.

[joeglow3]

33. And yet, without those teams, New York as no one to play against.

Sports are a unique animal. If you let the balance get too far out whack, you can literally erode the sport.

[trumad]

10. Marlins do it almost every year...

It's called good management and excellent farm teams.

[TZ]

14. and then they sell off their players the next year and crash and burn

because they can't afford to keep them. Honestly, I think its teams like the Marlins that the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, Phillies and other big wealthy teams do the most damage to. I think the Marlins would have more than 2 WS victories if MLB was fair and competitive.

[trumad]

21. OK---those players go to better paying teams no doubt...

BUT---they reload through their farm team and get competitive again.... why can they do that and teams with similar payrolls can't.

It's management---period.

[joeybee12]

12. They will go to the big markets, because they can make money on

merchandising, etc. much more than in smaller markets.

[trotsky]

50. The difference being, of course...

that the Steelers can't afford to sign whomever they want. Salary cap.

[TZ]

5. But do you think many of the teams have the money to do that?

I mean seriously, three Yankees players make as much as whole teams pay! No way could my Nats afford to pay many many players like that asshole Teixera who used them to get what he wanted to play for the Yankees...

[bigwillq]

7. Not the Yankees fault.

Business is not always fair. As I said before, I totally support a cap for several reasons, but the Yankees have not broken any rules as far as the payroll department goes. They're in the biggest market in the world, it's expected that they will have a lot of money. Some of the other big city teams (LA, Boston, Philly) have a lot of money too...and they shop around too. That's the nature of the business under the current rules.

[TZ]

13. This is why KC and the other small market teams don't win much

And when they do, its not consistent. Its seriously unfair that at least 60% of MLB has no shot at being competitive every year.

[bigwillq]

15. Boo Hoo

really not much you can do, even with a salary cap. The players will still lean towards the most desirable markets.

[DaveinMD]

32. Twins

are competitive every year. Oakland was competitive every year for a long time as well. Texas will be competitive for a while with all their talent. Tampa will be competitive for a while. This notion of a salary cap meaning competitive balance just isn't true. The NBA has had a cap forever and is the least balanced sport of any American sport. This is just about people hating the Yankees because they are jealous.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

51. Ahhhhhhhhhhh! :)

The magic word...................business. Sports ain't really sports at this level.

[Renew Deal]

9. There is a level playing field in MLB

And the Yankees have won in every era of baseball. Also, the Yankees were in 2nd and 3rd place for a while this season. It took time to warm up.

[Upton]

17. Doesn't look level to me..

1. New York Yankees $201,449,289
2. New York Mets $135,773,988
3. Chicago Cubs $135,050,000
4. Boston Red Sox $122,696,000
5. Detroit Tigers $115,085,145
6. Los Angeles Angels $113,709,000
7. Philadelphia Phillies $113,004,048
8. Houston Astros $102,996,415
9. Los Angeles Dodgers $100,458,101
10. Seattle Mariners $98,904,167
11. Atlanta Braves $96,726,167
12. Chicago White Sox $96,068,500
13. St. Louis Cardinals $88,528,411
14. San Francisco Giants $82,161,450
15. Cleveland Indians $81,625,567
16. Toronto Blue Jays $80,993,657
17. Milwaukee Brewers $79,857,502
18. Colorado Rockies $75,201,000
19. Arizona Diamondbacks $73,571,667
20. Cincinnati Reds $70,968,500
21. Kansas City Royals $70,908,333
22. Texas Rangers $68,646,023
23. Baltimore Orioles $67,101,667
24. Minnesota Twins $65,299,267
25. Tampa Bay Rays $63,313,035
26. Oakland Athletics $62,310,000
27. Nationals $59,328,000
28. Pirates $48,743,000
29. San Diego Padres $42,796,700
30. Florida Marlins $36,814,000

[joeybee12]

18. Stop making sense!!!!!

:mad:

[Renew Deal]

20. I forgot to mention that players want to play for the Yankees.

Like Boggs, Clemens, and Damon. No rule can do anything to prevent sheer desire to be with a team.

[joeybee12]

22. Sheer desire? All three were offered more money to go there

Face it, it's the money...they didn't break any rules to do it, but it comes down to money, pure and simple.

[Yavin4]

26. 27

[trumad]

23. Take off the Mets and the yanks

and we be bitching at the Red Sox for their high payroll.

[Upton]

24. Hell, the Yankee payroll was 88 million more

than the team they just beat...do you realize what you can buy for 88 million?

88 million is larger than the entire payroll of more than half of the teams in MLB.

This World Series was BOUGHT.

[madinmaryland]

28. I with you on that Upton. The W$ was bought. Plain and simple.

As much as the Yankee apologists want to blame the victims, the are plain wrong. It is the policies of $elig and $teinbrenner that are driving MLB.

[DinahMoeHum]

25. or the Phillies. . .or the Dodgers. . .or the Angels. . .

etc.

[Renew Deal]

19. What prevents the other teams from spending as much money?

Besides the Yankees outstanding fan base?

[Yavin4]

27. Don't Wate Your Time Arguing

They're haters. Pure and simple. They're not going to respond to reasoned arguments.

[DaveinMD]

29. blah blah blah

jealousy from the haters yet again.

[Arkana]

30. Salary cap would go pretty far in doing that.

I can tell you the Yanks would find themselves in a bit of a pickle.

[DaveinMD]

31. no they wouldn't

they'd just put more money into scouting and player development.

[eyepaddle]

34. Well, why don't they just do that now? Is there something stopping the Yankees from

developing enough talent within their own system from being consistently in the post-season hunt? Since money ball has only been a factor since the mid 70s--and only THE major factor recently (since when, about the mid '90s isn't it?) and the Yankees had already had a truckful of championships before the '70s at one time they knew how to do it apparently.

Scouting and player development gets you the Minnesota Twins; a team that has a consistent winning record, and is usually able to stick their nose into the post season, and they get rolled. Judging from the list Upton provided, Scouting, player develpopment, and $70 million can get you to the playoffs--to go anywhere past that first cup of coffe takes around $30-50 million more. And then there is that one outlier that used scouting, player development, and then an extra $130 million dollars worth of proven major league talent just to be sure.

Seriously, how long can this go on and still be fun--even for fans of the winning team? Winning is only fun because it is hard to do. Another decade of this kind of disparity and the only competitive baseball games will be Yankee scrimmages in Florida.

bigwillq is right, the Yankees haven't broken any rules--they were just the best at working the current system. But the current system in MLB is truly fucked, and if something isn't done (despite the crying by both the players union and ownership I think it will be irretrievably fucked within a decade

[DaveinMD]

35. they are doing more of that

and that is what should be scary for baseball.

Recently home grown talent on this team in addition to the older core 4:

Cervelli
Hughes
Joba
Robertson
Coke
Cano
Melky
Gardner
Pena

Combined with the older home grown players, that makes have the roster were Yankees minor leaguers

On the way is a 19 year old catcher in AA who is rated as the 2nd best prospect in all of baseball among others.

And winning is still hard. Its been 8 years since the Yankees won a title and 6 years since they've been in the World Series. Baseball has more competitive balance than basketball, which has a cap and just as much as football.

[madinmaryland]

36. Baseball has competitive balance??

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I think that qualifies as a DUzy!!

It's competitive for the top eight teams in salary.

[DaveinMD]

37. look

at the teams in the world series over the last decade. A lot more than just those 8 teams. Just because your Pirates suck doesn't mea all small market teams do.

[madinmaryland]

40. Interesting. Taking a look at the last decade, the following are the teams in the W$.

AL
*NY Yankees – 4
*Boston Red Sox – 2
*LA Angeles – 1
*Chicago WS – 1
*Detroit – 1
Tampa Bay – 1

NL
*Philadelphia – 2
*NY Mets – 1
*St. Louis – 2
Arizona – 1
Florida – 1
*Colorado – 1
*San Francisco – 1
*Houston – 1

From what I can tell, three of the 20 teams in the world $eries this decade were "small" market teams.

[DaveinMD]

42. most of them

were mid-market

[madinmaryland]

45. OK. And four of the teams were "mid-market"

Colorado – 1
San Francisco – 1
Houston – 1

and

Detroit - 1

You argument is still failing.

BTW, you conveniently posted all of the playoff teams. How about a listing of how many times each of the 20 teams made it into the playoffs. I think that will show definitively that it is the "big market" teams that are consistently in the playoffs.

[DaveinMD]

47. why don't you

the point of the posting the list was to show that lost of different teams have a chance to make the playoffs as opposed to sports that have caps. Compare it to the nba for instance. Baseball is a lot more competitive than basketball.

[eyepaddle]

38. The NBA is just a complete mess--the saving grace there is

that I just don't care! In the mid '90s I HATED the NBA, but had to admire David Stern's seemingly infallible Midas touch. Now it is just a steaming pile of WTF?

As a personal disclaimer: my wife and stepson are from Long Island and have relatives working for the Yankees--how dominant would the Yankees have to be before even die hard Yankees fans no longer give a shit? Let's just say (hypothetically) that the Yankees rattle off an eleven-peat,you'd have to think after the 4th or 5th in a row it'd get pretty dull.

The competitive balance in MLB is pretty much restricted to the top tier teams. In the nine years since the Yanks last won a WS, how many different teams have actully made the playoffs? It's usually pretty much the same crowd with one or two scrappy underdog oddballs thrown in for good measure. Obviously, as the saying goes there is a reason you play the games, or on any given day and so on and so forth, So crushing in the post season still matters--for now, but you have to get to the post season first and that is pretty much a matter of pure payroll.

And, as much as it pains me to say this, I don't think you can really hold up my Minnesota Twins as an example of real competitive balance--look at the division we play in: Cleveland, Detroit, Knasas City and Chicago White Sox. The Twins manage to pound on some hapless rivals enough to be near the top division at the end of the year. And well, the WHite Sox, they are kind of enigmatic. Sure Chicago is a huge market, but the White Sox are largely ignored by the cash in that town (Who oddly enough root for the Cubs who ALWAYS suck).

I don't have the figures handy, but I know damn well the AL Central pretty much got hammered by the East and West. I'd say look for that trend to continue.

[DaveinMD]

39. teams that have made the playoffs since 2000

Dodgers
Diamondbacks
Padres
Rockies
Giants
Astros
Cubs
Cardinals
Brewers
Mets
Phillies
Braves
Marlins
Yankees
Boston
Tampa
Cleveland
Twins
White Sox
Detroit
Angels
A's
Seattle

21 out of 30 teams have made playoffs in this period

[eyepaddle]

41. So, 21 teams have split 72 playoff berths--can you see where I'm heading with this?

Roughly the bottom third of the league has been shut out entirely. If you total the number of appearances by the NY teams, Boston, the Twins (who play in a shitty division, that is nevertheless assured one play-off spot) the Angels of wherever the hell that lame name is from, the Phillies and Dodgers what are you left with?

I'd look that up--but I have no idea how to do that short of googling it one season at a time, so I apologize if it looks I just foisting the work on to you.

In a nutshell, how many teams are perenial repeats, how many had one lucky year, and then you have bottom feeders like Cincy or KC or Shittsburgh, who are just hopeless?

Again, I don't mean to just throw this all back to your court, but how many teams in thoae nine years have made it to the A/NLCS? Cash matters, and having one or two token Cinderella stories a year sneak in doesn't really change that.

[DaveinMD]

43. I did all that from memory

so I would need to do actual research. But I'll say its just as good as the leagues with salary caps. The bottom feeders in every league are such because they are mismanaged.

[madinmaryland]

44. How many games have each of those teams been in playoff series.

Also, name the 10 teams that have not made any trips. You will see that the teams with the most appearances are also the "big market teams".

[Arkana]

46. ...like every other team on earth you mean?

[DaveinMD]

48. the Yankees

will always have more money than everyone else. So if you limit what they can spend on salaries, they'll find other ways to spend their money.

[Arkana]

49. Yeah, god forbid the Yankees have to homegrow their talent

like half the other friggin' teams in the league.

[DaveinMD]

52. more than

half the roster is homegrown. The roster is more homegrown than the Red Sox championship rosters were.

[Yavin4]

55. Dave, You're Wasting Your Time

Logic and reason do not work with people who have an agenda and do not open their minds to facts.

They keep crying that a salary cap is the key to a competitively balanced league, yet they fail to notice that the NBA has the most restrictive salary caps for all of the leagues.

Guess how many different teams have won the NBA Western Conference championship since 1997? FOUR!!! Over 13 seasons, FOUR teams have been Western Conference champions:

Jazz 1997 & '98
Spurs 1999, 2003, 2005, 2007
Lakers 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009
Mavs 2006


So, there's your brilliant competitive balance brought to you by a hard salary cap league.

Compare that to the AL Champions in MLB over that same period:

Indians 1997
Yankees 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2009
Red Sox 2004, 2007
Tigers 2006
Angels 2002
White Sox 2005
Rays 2008

OOOOhhhh, would you look at that! SEVEN different teams in the evil no-salary cap MLB have gone to the championship round even though the big bad satanic Yankees stand in their way. And look you have small, mid, and large market teams on that list. Golly Margaret, MLB looks far more competitive to me.

But alas, they don't let actual FACTS get into the way of their asinine thinking. They remind me of Fox News viewers. Just repeat the meme planted into their brains by the corporate owners of MLB teams who don't want to pocket their revenue instead of spending it on players.

[Yavin4]

56. Yankee Home Grown Talent on Their Post-Season Roster

Posada
Cano
Jeter
Melky Cabrera
Brett Gardner
Andy Pettitte
Phil Coke
Joba Chamberlain
Phil Hughes
Mariano Rivera
Dave Robertson
Ramiro Pena
Francisco Cervelli

But why let facts get into the way of your envy?

[Yavin4]

57. 20 of the Yankees 27 Championships Were During The Time of No Free Agency

The Yankees were far, far more dominant when there was a salary cap and players were restricted from moving from team to team.

And, if there was a salary cap, the Yankees would pour their vast resources into their farm systems and international scouting.

People just do not understand that some professional sport organizations are committed to winning, and they put the time, talent, and resources towards that goal, cap or no cap.

[HuckleB]

54. Duh.