Lebron James

[erpowers]

Whenever people talk about Lebron James they say how he is such a great player. Whenever they talk about him in connection with Carmelo Anthony they say he is much better than Anthony. However, Anthony's team has been to the playoffs and may go again. Anthony's team went to the playoffs last year. James' team missed the playoffs last year, but may go this year. What do DUers think about the James/Anthony issue? Do any DUers think James is overrated?

In comparison to Anthony I contend maybe people are making too much of James. Anthony and his team went to the playoffs last year. It seems that Anthony maybe helping his team more. Anthony may be more beneficial to his team. This may be that Anthony has a better team around him, or has better coaches. What do other DUers think? If Carmelo Anthony and the Nuggets make it to the playoffs and James and the Cavaliers do not will people really be able to say that James is so much better than Anthony.

[TwilightZone]

1. Simple - teams make the playoffs.

Individual players do not.

One player does not a playoff team make.

[camitche]

4. that's not true

Usually that is true. That's why teams like the Patriots and the Pistons are public favorites, because there's no superstar.

But come on, the Bulls weren't playoff contenders without Jordan, nor the Twolves without Garnett, nor were the Magic when they had McGrady.

[TwilightZone]

5. More accurately, the Bulls weren't championship contenders until Jordan

had a supporting cast. His early years were proof that one person can't win a championship.

[camitche]

8. actually, that's what I'm saying.

Jordan's first couple of years were development years. I'm not going to say that every team he ever played on was immediately a playoff contender.
But, I will say that Lebron's teams aren't immediately contenders either, but they probably will be in a few years.

"His early years were proof that one person can't win a championship"

Well, his late years were proof that one person can. Plus, this debate didn't begin about championships, but playoffs.

I challenge any of you to argue that my other statement about McGrady and the magic of 2003 isn't one man taking a team to the playoffs.

[TwilightZone]

9. No, one person cannot win a championship, not even Jordan.

You seem to be forgetting that Mr. Jordan had a teammate by the name of Scottie Pippen.

You might have heard of Mr. Pippen - he made the list of the 50 best NBA players ever. Ring a bell?

Not to mention that the Bulls had a pretty damn good supporting cast most of the championship years.

Edit: typo

[camitche]

10. Yes, I remember Mr. Pippen

I remember him well, except for those year when he floundered around the league and played like shit. Oh yes, those were the years when Mike wasn't around anymore.

[camitche]

11. Look, I'm not a Jordan fanatic here

This didn't start with me saying Jordan was the greatest ever. If you'll read my original reply, I was stating that it is possible for one player to make a team a playoff contender. I used Jordan as an example for this. He is an apt one. there are others, as I've mentioned, Tracy McGrady (Magic 2003), Wilt Chamberlain (with the sixers), etc.

[midlandsdawg]

13. 1 Man

1 Man can't win a championship, plain and simple. You claim that since Jordan came back and they won again that is proof of your claim. It isn't. He was a huge piece of the puzzle granted, but they needed other pieces. They need a small forward capable of scoring consistently, they found that in Pippen. They need a PF that could board, found that in Grant and later Rodman, and they needed a 3 point shooter, found that in Paxson, Armstrong and Kerr. If Jordan ALONE, could win, then explain to me how his best individual performance ever in the playoffs came in a loss to boston.

[camitche]

15. let's try this again

It seems impossible that I would have to explain this again all in a single thread, but...

the original argument (and point that I was making) is whether or not it is possible for a single person to make a team a playoff contender, this was related to the lebron, carmelo debate.

I insist that it is; I used several people as examples, Tracy McGrady with the Magic in 2003, Wilt in the mid and late seventies with the sixers, and jordan (apparently a mistake).

So, if were going to be completely literal then no, jordan cannot win a championship by himself, it takes five people to play the game. I was assuming (since we were talking about the NBA) that we would start with the assumption that there were four other NBA caliber players also playing. Silly me. So, you're right 1Man, someone will have to rebound and shoot a little.

With that assumption it is absolutely possible for one person to make a team a contender. I defy you to tell me that the 2002-2003 Magic with an injured Grant Hill would have even won 25 games that season without McGrady. I defy you to tell me that if Shaq went to the Bobcats next season, the wouldn't put together 40 wins and a playoff birth.

[THUNDER HANDS]

16. i agree

Jason Kidd made the New Jersey Nets instant title contenders when he came to the team. If they make it to the playoffs, even as an 8th seed, they are going to be hard to beat.

I could easily see them upsetting Miami in 7 games.

Kidd is a beast in the playoffs, just ask Will Pitt and his beloved Celtics.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. But, They ALWAYS Made The Playoffs With Jordan

Even in his rookie year, they made the playoffs. They got waxed in the first round, but they made it. I think the whole "they make the other players better" is valid.

That being said, i do completely agree that James is the real deal.
The Professor

[lazarus]

6. The year Jordan retired to play baseball

the Bulls went to the Conference Finals. Almost won, too.

Just an FYI.

[camitche]

7. actually they only made it out of the first round

they lost in the second round to the Knicks and only out of the first by beating a strong cavaliers team boasting mark price and brad daughtery.

then jordan came back and they racked up more championships. to say that jordan wasn't the heart, soul, talent, drive, coach, and everything else to that team is ignorant.

[JohnKleeb]

21. I disagree with you

Miami added Shaq and they are now one of the best teams in the east.

[nickgutierrez]

2. Even in the individualized NBA, one player does not make a team

Would anybody in their right minds say that Kobe Bryant isn't as good a player as the 12th man on the Pistons' bench? Sure, one player might be in the playoffs and the other maybe not, but Kobe's contributions to the Lakers are sure to be much greater than the aforementioned 12th man. Lebron is that team, to no small degree, and the fact that we're talking playoffs at all about the Cavs is a testament to his play.

[camitche]

3. to some degree, he is overrated

but we overrate all of our most popular players because it is more marketable and it sells.

As for Anthony, I think that if any objective person looks at the numbers, consistency of play, and ability of the two, that James is the better player by a substantial amount.

James is better in three main areas: defense, passing, drive to the hoop.

I would suggest that attitude is another reason that James is better, but it's difficult to tell.

In five years, we'll no more about this. The playoff situation is not fair, as the Cavs and the Nuggets are both rebuilding their franchises and much of it has to do with the GMs and front office staff.

[WilliamPitt]

12. Cleveland is LeBron and six days of rain

Anthony has more of a team around him.

[DaveinMD]

14. Denver

is a much better team than Cleveland. A lot of talent there. Lebron is the real deal. Much better than the very good Mello.

[bigwillq]

18. They're both young players who have

a bright future ahead of them. Originally, I thought Anthony would be the better pro player overall. However, after a great season last year, the injury bug hit him this year which hindered his performances.


I don't think James is overrated at all and I think the same about Anthony. Give them both a few years and they both will be ALl-Stars every season.

[camitche]

19. Will definitely be All-Stars every season...

but I see Lebron as the type of player that an organization builds an entire team around.

I see Carmelo as the type of player that needs that other super star on the team to be great.

[JohnKleeb]

20. James may not have made the playoffs last year

but the Cleveland Cavailers are a team much better with him, and they will make the playoffs this year unlike Denver.