Is it accurate to say that Martin L. King's Christianity

[bryant69]

was an essential requirement for him to be able to do what he did. Not that it was a sufficient in and of itself (he was obviously inspired by several sources), but that it as a key and essential part of what he accomplished.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[beam me up scottie]

1. If so, then it's accurate to say Bush's and Hitler's christianity was an

essential requirement for them to be able to do what they did.

If religious beliefs can cause people to do things they wouldn't have done without them, it works both ways.

[bryant69]

2. Of course. I'm not sure I'd agree as much in the Hitler case,

but I certainly would in the George W. Bush case.

Or to put it another way, I think the evidence is more firm in the Bush case than in the Hitler case.

Bryant

[beam me up scottie]

3. Why not? He gave just as much credit to the Lord as Bush does.

Without the influence of Martin Luther, Hitler wouldn't have become what he was.

[bryant69]

4. I disagree with your assessment of Hitler's Christianity

I'm not saying he was an atheist of course.

But of course one of the funner games i've played over the years is the "hot hitler." It's like hot potatoe but more pointless. "Hitlers' in your group." "No he's not, he's in your group."

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

6. Dan Quayle LIVES! n/t

[bryant69]

8. Among the many sins of which I am capable. of

Being a poor speller and a sloppy typist is on the list. But presumably I have a lot worse sins than that.

Bryant

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Random_Australian]

14. This thread went from 62 posts to 13 from deleted responses?

My goodness gracious!

[bryant69]

15. Yeah - it was interesting

I'm hesitant to say much about it, but I think its sad that they waited until there was a sort of reproachment made - and then hacked it all out.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

17. Some lessons to be learned

1. Civility is a good thing.

2. Name calling is a bad thing.

3. Talking about Hitler is fruitless.

And you can take that to the bank.

[bryant69]

18. Thank you for that lecture

I appreciate you looking out for me.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

19. It didn't take the first couple of times,

I wonder if it will make any difference this time.

[bryant69]

20. We'll just have to see how soon you pointedly

point out that you are obeying rule three.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

21. Rule three is for the protection of all

Not just to pick on you.

[varkam]

22. Godwin's law.

As an online discussion grows in length, the probabilty of comparing such and such an issue to Hitler or the Nazis approaches one.

Such a nifty law :D

[bryant69]

24. I didn't compare anybody to the nazis incidentally,lest anybody

get the wrong idea.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

25. There should be a corollary

That says no communication of ideas is possible after Hitler is mentioned.

[varkam]

28. I think that's a good point.

Hitler is kind of like the ultimate boogeyman - bringing him into the discussion brings up a lot of extreme emotions and makes any useful discussion difficult at best.

[bryant69]

23. No you using it pick on me is just an added bonus.

But I will certainly attempt to live within the bounds of civil discourse. Thank you for the warning.

Bryant

[cosmik debris]

26. Asking you to obey the rules was really dastardly of me. n/t

[Chulanowa]

5. I can't really say

Perhaps, for MLK personally, it was essential. But other people in other places have accomplished the same feats without a Christian faith.

[nealmhughes]

9. In the sense that being a minister of very large churches in Montgomery

and Atlanta gave him a built-in mechanism to promote his message, but his own philosophy of ahimsa was straight out of Ghandi as we all know, but then Ghandi's own ahimsa and the example of Jesus are in perfect agreement, just that Jesus didn't get involved in politics, per se...evidently he felt they were all corrupt, and was more concerned with a complete moral and ethical revolution while addressing the short term needs of the poor in immediacy. Ghandi in contrast, was more interested in the longer term political questions (not that he did not address immediate questions of relief as well, of course).

The brilliance of MLK was his ability to synthasize the two messages into a coherent message of universal brotherhood and democratic socialism within a context that was understood by the majority, i.e., the traditional Christian message while using Ghandian tactics.

[Zhade]

10. How could we know?

No one - NO ONE - can honestly answer that question with certainty, either way.

But seeing as how moral people can be so without religion of any kind (like myself and others here and around the world), I doubt it was essential. If I were pressed, I'd have to say I like his cherry-picking of his holy book a LOT more than Falwell's!

[ulysses]

11. as a practical matter, yes.

People listened to Rev. Martin Luther King in a way that I doubt that they would have to, say, Martin King, attorney at law. And don't forget the oratory, honed behind the pulpit.

Was his Christianity required for the moral vision? No.

[bryant69]

12. That's just sad

Oh well.

[CarbonDate]

13. I've long been of the belief.....

...that people project their own values outward and call that "God" rather than the other way around. If someone is a racist, then they believe that God is a racist. If they believe that all men are created equal, then they believe that God meant that to be so. If they believe that eating meat is wrong, then they believe that God meant us to be vegetarians. Etc, etc.

[trotsky]

16. I think that would be a pretty accurate belief, CD.

Seems to fit what we see in reality pretty damn well.

[bryant69]

27. I can see an element to that

But when one is a member of a religion there are additional facet. You have to bounce your own ideas off of your religions holy writings and doctrine, off of your minister or cleric, and off of your fellow church-goers. So that it ends up being sythesis rather than simply your own ideas writ large.

Bryant