Matthew 6:6 What is your closet?

[ridgerunner]

Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I was having this discussion a few weeks ago with a friend and we were discussing this passage. For the record, I was raised a Southern Baptist, but have been an agnostic for over 20 years, and he is a Nazarene.

IMO your closet is your mind. No one can see into it, as far as I know, so it seems the most likely answer.

He sees a physical place and I just can't see that, especially in this day and age with technology, is there anywhere secret other than your mind?

Just wondering what yall thought about it.

[murielm99]

1. I believe it is a physical place, too.

The Bible was critical of Pharisees who prayed ostentatiously on street corners and let everyone know how holy they were. This passage tells us to pray privately and modestly. God does not like the outward show of holiness. He will hear prayers and answer them without all those trappings.

I always make references to this passage when I am accosted by boisterous born-agains in public, or within my own family. It does shut them up briefly. However, nothing shuts them up for long.

[ridgerunner]

4. I just can't see a physical place

I know Jesus was talking smack about the Pharisees and public displays, but I also know that with Jesus you have to read between the lines, you know the whole parable thing. And that's where I get your mind is your closet. I reckon the way I'm looking at it is this, you ain't got to use your mouth to communicate with God. I know we always had silent prayers in church growing up, so I reckon that's where I got the idea, but I just can't see your closet needing to be a physical place, nor could it be since there's always a chance of someone hearing you, it wouldn't make it secret.

[NMMNG]

2. Here's a take on it from ReligiousTolerance.org

What the Christian Scriptures say about public prayer:
The author of the Gospel of Matthew contrasted public and private prayer. He recorded Jesus as saying:

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

The reference to go into thy closet has been translated in other versions of the Bible as "go into your inner room." "go away by yourself," "all alone," "your private room," "enter into thy chamber," and "go into your room."

Two of the largest Jewish religious movements in 1st century Palestine were the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus is recorded as having repeatedly criticized both - often with rather hateful and vicious language. Much of Jesus' anger may have been motivated their prayer methods which were very public.

Many liberal Christians interpret Matthew 6:6 literally. Jesus believed that prayers are to be an intensely personal event between a person and God; no one else should be present. Prayer to him was a private matter. Jesus condemns prayers in situations where other people are present. For example: In religious settings like churches or synagogues,
In a private or public school,
In a legislature or municipal government meeting, or
In the street or other public place.

Most conservative Christians tend to downplay Jesus' instruction about the importance of going off by oneself and pray alone and in secret. After all, if public prayer is not permitted, then just about every Christian service is seriously in error, with the possible exception of some by the Society of Friends (Quakers). Conservatives interpret Matthew 6:5 as not condemning public prayer. Rather, it criticizes only that prayer in public that is motivated by a desire to show off. Prayer "may be offered in any circumstances, however open, if not promoted by the spirit of ostentation..."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/prayer.htm






As if most Conservatives' prayers aren't promoted by the spirit of ostentation. :sarcasm:

[Sherman A1]

3. A few weeks ago

on NPR's Sunday Morning programing, there was a former Jesuit that mentioned that passage. I don't entirely recall the surrounding conversation (at work doing a couple of things at once, as usual), but I do recall he not being to pleased with organized religion in general.
It makes perfect sense to me and I agree with the message in the passage. Organized religion is in my mind about one thing --- $$$$'s. With that said, I know also that there are good people trying to do their best within those institutions just as there are some less so, under the pretense of "religion". Can't paint everyone with a broad brush.

[ridgerunner]

5. I agree with ya

I know of a lot of good preachers who live simple lives and truly try to help others. It's just folks like Swaggart et al that nauseate me.

[saltpoint]

6. I wonder how come Fred Phelps' Bible doesn't include this passage?

[NMMNG]

7. All Bibles include it

It's just one of those passages fundies ignore--rather like "Love your neighbor as yourself", "Judge not lest ye be judged", and all of those verses about helping the poor.

[saltpoint]

8. Yep. Ol' Fred -- and other fundies like him -- have a very selective

interest in the Bible.

[NMMNG]

9. Indeed

They're mainly interested in the parts they can use as weapons against other people.

[xchrom]

10. what's the sense in being superior if can't use

slective judgement with impunity?

which is what the msm have done for conservative christians in this country.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Or the Ten Commandments even

Like that Congressman Colbert had on, who could only name 3 out of 10 and even that was a struggle.

[NMMNG]

19. Maybe that's why they want the monuments all over the place

Because they can't remember the commandments, not because others can't.

[liberal N proud]

11. It means that prayer between you and GOD is your business

Not everyone in the church, community or world.
Only GOD needs to know if you are praying not your friends and preacher.

It means that I don't have to put a fish on my car to be called a Christian

[nosillies]

12. Perfectly said

Prayer is between you and God, whether it's in your mind or in a quiet, private place. If you're praying purposely in front of other people to show how great you are, proselytize, make people uncomfortable or mad, etc., then you are not communing with God in any good way. I think this passage and others speak more to intent than speak of any specific place.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. But in Matthew 18:20

He tells us:

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."


So I think He is asking us for a balance. Not to pray just to be seen and admired, but group worship is better than just okay...He promises to be there.

[sutz12]

14. One of my favorite quotes, actually.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them."

I've always interpreted this line to mean that Christ would most likely NOT have supported the international nature of the Catholic Church (or any like it), or the maga-churches of modern America and the world.

"2 or 3" is hardly a ringing endorsement of unlimited church growth; quite the contrary IMO. I see it as Jesus being very aware of how large organizations tend to end up being about $$$$$ and power, rather than the spirituality that he seemed to actually teach.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Yes. It is notable he didn't say "two or three thousand"

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. I never took that passage

to imply they were praying together. Just that they were people who lived in the way of christ, so of course, christ would be there when they are together. When you know christ is inside of you, then christ is always there and it's just part of everything you do.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. I never thought of that interpretation

but it sure works for me. In our church it is a scripture we say weekly. It's part of the Eucharist service. I guess "gathered in my name" made me think together specifically to worship. But in fellowship with other Christians you are always "gathered in His name."

BTW..great post in GD.

TG

[SPKrazy]

18. It's Doing It In A Private Place

could be your mind
could be your car
could be your backyard
could be a mountain top
could be your closet (come out of the closet)

but I think it is a command to be private about prayer

I don't think that prayer in worhship services is against this command, it was more to create the idea that one should not be boastful in their prayer, making others aware of it, "look how spiritual I am, I'm praying, and I'm praying for you"

funny how we can only guess what he meant, and when I say he, I mean the writer of Matthew's version as translated by...... whoever's translation of what Jesus is to have said. So while it may be close to what Jesus said, it probably is not verbatim by any means. It also could be something that was never said by Jesus and was instead something that came up after the fact.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. Maybe Jesus didn't want people

going around in public looking like they're constipated while they pretend to pray.

[NMMNG]

21. As I noted above

Most conservative Christians tend to downplay Jesus' instruction about the importance of going off by oneself and pray alone and in secret. After all, if public prayer is not permitted, then just about every Christian service is seriously in error, with the possible exception of some by the Society of Friends (Quakers). Conservatives interpret Matthew 6:5 as not condemning public prayer. Rather, it criticizes only that prayer in public that is motivated by a desire to show off. Prayer "may be offered in any circumstances, however open, if not promoted by the spirit of ostentation..."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/prayer.htm





Those pics show perfectly the conservatives prayer as a display of ostentation.

[Igel]

23. Many "Xian colleges" provide small rooms in their

dorms or on campus, 'prayer closets'. A literal place was meant. There's no reason to suspect otherwise, by either context or by language.

But while we're considering context:
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don't sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be applauded by people. I assure you: They've got their reward! But when you give to the poor, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
"Whenever you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by people. I assure you: They've got their reward! But when you pray, go into your private room, shut your door, and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. When you pray, don't babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they'll be heard for their many words. Don't be like them, because your Father knows the things you need before you ask Him."

There's a purpose behind the commandment. It's not to be proud, or allow your practice of religion to be seen as a virtue, to show yourself superior to others with an inferior worship or improper attitudes. Don't be ostentatious about your virtue.

But this doesn't imply a lack of corporate worship. But corporate worship and prayers are asking for the group, and even then aren't meant to be ostentatious.

By that measure, I've seen a fair amount of public prayer that was indeed heartfelt, it would seem, and not meant for show. I personally disagreed with it, but wasn't about to let formal adherence to what Jesus said trump the intent of what he said, since he himself also prayed in public.

I've also seen people object to public prayer, in order to make sure everybody knows how righteous *they* are.

[SPKrazy]

24. So Have The Fundies Come Out Of Their Closets?

they certainly seem to believe in praying in a boastful manner and not in secret where only God would see them.

Reminds me of the SouthPark episode about Scientology: " Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet!"

Instead we should be shouting at the fundies to go back in the closet, we liked you better there.