Religions Evolve, Part 3: Judaism

[bloom]

Interesting stuff by Dr. VIolet Socks - deconstructing The Patriarchs, etc.

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=267#more-267

"It was this literary masterstroke that ensured that the people of Israel (really just Judah by that time) would maintain a strong sense of themselves as an ethnic, religious entity, despite the inevitable death of their nation-state. It’s a remarkable story they put together. Most of it just isn’t true."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Utterly fascinating!

I knew that some scientists have said there is evidence (DNA?) that showed the Israelites were from Canaan. However, I have heard the Moses is an Egyptian name-and that there is one stele that states the Pharoah had destroyed the "Hebrewi".

It is also interesting that monotheism might have come to the fore after David and the Temple-would that mean that multiple deities were worshipped there?

What is interesting about human nature is that myths can become reality and that those myths can, indeed, shape a people.

[greyl]

2. Yes, it is interesting.

The responses are fun to read, too.

"I have no particular brief against Islam; in this series of posts I’m trying to illustrate that all three Abrahamic religions rest on shaky grounds." - Violet Socks http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=80

Well, that's an understatement.

ananymous says:

fuck u and fuck ur thinkings. any of you who thinks potraying the holy prophets is a good thing to do shuld try to potrate his father fucking a pig or his mother romancing with a striped animal. for gowssake cant u ever think of what will happen to u if u die

[Meshuga]

3. I am a Jew...

...and unless you are orthodox (less than 10% of all Jews), you know that the stories in the Torah (the first five books in the Bible) and the Tanach (AKA: the Hebrew Bible or what Christians call the Old Testament) are fiction and not supposed to be taken literally. It is only our way of expressing what God is to us. The Torah is our guide because of the moral of the stories and not because of what is on the surface.

Ask a rabbi if he believes the stories are true and you will be surprised with their answers. Because it doesn't matter what is fact or fiction in the Torah, what matter to us is what our sages, for a couple of thousand years were able to extract texts and more texts of ethical laws from the Torah. The Torah was written with the intention of teaching people ethics and teaching them how to behave in order to better our world and not as a historical account of how the world was created.

To find out how the world was created we, Jews, look into science books, not in the Torah. To us, the story of Genesis is not a literal account of how the world was created but it is a story of human dignity which tells us that we are all equal because all humanity came from the same origins.

We may look at Darwin for answers on the origin of the species but we do not look at social Darwinism as a way to behave otherwise we are going to live in a ruthless society. Instead, we use the Torah which teaches us and makes it our obligation to feeding the hungry, helping the poor, comforting the widow, welcoming the stranger, etc.

We follow a mitzvah system (system of commandments) that was extracted from the Torah and from following good deeds we find our spirituality.

We don't feel threatened if people try to debunk biblical stories because we do it ourselves. The important thing is not whether the stories are true or not, the important thing is if you are able to see the soul of the stories. The Talmud itself tells us to read the Torah like it is poetry.

(edited because I forgot to spellcheck my text)

[bloom]

4. "teaching people ethics"

And I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Some of the ethics don't exactly hold up - but I like the Jewish approach of re-examining them/questioning. And I know some people have said that Judaism is more pro-feminist than other religions.


It's my impression that Dr. Socks was raised Jewish - from some of the things she has written. (I could be wrong.)

[Meshuga]

5. Not only ethics

Questioning is a very important part of being Jewish. Jews are also known as people of Israel and Israel means "wrestling with God". We struggle with God. In Judaism, faith in God is dynamic. It is not an all-or-nothing, static state of being.

Judaism is not only about ethics but it is also about finding spirituality through ethical conduct and good deeds.

What ethics don't exactly hold up in your opinion?

[bloom]

6. There are all kinds of laws

that people wouldn't take seriously today. (At lease what shows up in the Old Testament)

Plus various inequalities between men and women - that sort of thing. "Witches should be burned" or something like that.


Maybe what you read is totally rewritten. The Bible needs some kind of rewriting IMO - it's ridiculous that some people take that stuff literally.

[Meshuga]

7. No need to re-write!

Some laws were created just to ween humans from old primitive customs, like the laws of animal sacrifice, for example, which is not a custom today because the Torah makes it impossible.

There are laws to promote humane treatment of animals (leis de Kashrut), social justice, sense of community, family, etc.

I don't know any law that states that witches should be burned. :-) That is probably from some other religion. :-)

But I think your interpretation of the Hebrew Bible is through Christian lens and that is understandable because we live in a Christian society. Christian interpretation is not the same as ours. You have to take into consideration that they interpret translations of our texts and these translations, most of the time, are not accurate.

But if you study the Torah in Hebrew like we do every week you will see that we study from a text that has not been changed since it was written and our interpretation of the original text in Hebrew gives us backing to support equal rights to women, social justice, among other things that I don't have time to go into right now because I have to leave to a doctors appointment. :-)

To us the Torah does not need to be re-written since it still supports most things you and I are for.

Take care!

[BayCityProgressive]

10. Great Post

I am currently in the process to converting to Judaism and that is one of the main reasons I love Judaism.

[Meshuga]

11. Welcome!

Welcome to the family! :-)

[dipsydoodle]

8. Her stuff

sure makes interesting reading and what's more it makes some sense as well.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Part 2 about Islam is even more interesting to me

I'd heard most of the Judaism and Christianity 'doubts' before, though this Judaism article goes into more detail than I'd seen before. But I didn't know there was a significant claim that Islam did not originate with Mohammed. Does anyone know any references that go into that in more detail?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. I just read Part 2

and I've never heard this version of things. I know that Sufi tradition says that the mystics come forth whenever a prophet emerges, stay close to the prophet until the teachings get watered down, then go into seclusion again. Sufis have always been closely allied to Christian mystics (the poet Rumi praises Christians as making the most excellent wine), and there are many stories of their collaberation.

If this information about Mohammed (pbuh) were something that haad been around for awhile, I'd say the mystics would have talked about it before now (Sufis are persecuted as heretics in parts of the Muslim world). I don't know exactly what information the good doctor would have to back this up, as the Saudi Arabian government has systematically destroyed ancient sites, such as The Prophet's house.