Belief in the government is an act of faith.

[brainshrub]

I hope this fits with the conversations going on here.

Belief in the government is an act of faith.

Let's talk about the importance of faith. Without it, civilization would not be possible.

Faith is a set of beliefs you hold to be true in the absence of hard data. For example, no amount of evidence will convince a fundamentalist that the Bible/Torah/Koran/name-your-text is not the absolute authority on the will of God.

There is another type of faith that is so deeply ingrained within us, we tend to view it differently than churches and televangelists; even though it also requires an act of faith in order for it to exist.

I'm speaking about the government. After all, if you want to be technical - a government is nothing more than a collective mental construct.

There is no United States other than what exists in your mind. You can't point to "America" anymore than you could point to God, Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It is true that you can experience the effects of the government in the form of roads, armies and taxes. However, you can also see the effects of Mickey Mouse, Elvis and Jesus. All three of them are are also nothing more than mental constructs, it doesn't mean they are alive or actually exist.

Just like the old Catholic church, the US government has a sacred text (The Constitution), a mythology (The Founding Fathers), and a zero-tolerance policy for up-start governments from within. (Google: US Civil War.)

<snip>

[SteppingRazor]

1. It's an interesting idea, but I disagree...

the analogy isn't quite complete. He points out that we can see the result of government -- roads, etc. -- the same way we see the results of Elvis or Jesus. But neither of these is necessarily God. There are no direct consequences of faith in God, or specifically from God him/her/itself. God does not result in any quantifiable change in society -- no roads, armies, etc. Unlike governments. So, while governments are a mental construct deriving from the consent of the governed, it's useless to call them an act of faith. Governments are better compared to other social constructs like class or gender roles than they are compared to God.

Just my couple o' pennies.

[Finder]

2. Agree in a sense...

both religion and nationalism depend on the tribal nature of humans. Some in the world have evolved past this but unfortunately not enough.

[bloom]

3. I think it's more than a valid comparison.

"I sometimes wonder if religious and civic faith come from the same part of the human psyche?"


Like what I quoted from Violet Socks earlier:

"It (the OT) was this literary masterstroke that ensured that the people of Israel (really just Judah by that time) would maintain a strong sense of themselves as an ethnic, religious entity, despite the inevitable death of their nation-state. It’s a remarkable story they put together. Most of it just isn’t true."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x69953

That is what nation-states do - create laws, myths, identity. (We all know how our own country is wrapped up in myths of goodness which are false).

You can have a country without the idea of "God" or not - but what government does give people is the same sort of thing that the people of Israel wrote up 700 years ago.

And part of the point is for people to believe in the group - the possibilities, the goals, the authority. The Republicans think we are undermining that authority when we criticize it (when their choice of a leader is in power) - what we want to do is to HAVE a government that we CAN believe in.

A lot of people have given up faith in the possibility of having a government that is NOT corrupt and are not people engaged solely in their own self-interest. But I think most of us desperately want to have "faith" in the possibilities of our government. The laws and the people. The common good.

edit - to add link