Does faith require ritual?

[BurtWorm]

I suspect it does, and this supicion leads me to think faith is a social phenomenon.

What do you think?

[acmavm]

1. No. There are millions of us who believe but don't attend

church. But it makes most people feel secure. It reinforces something inside them.

[AverageJoe]

2. I don't think so

Charles Bukowski was talking about art in his little poem, "art," but I think it applies to faith and organized religion, too. I'm probably getting the line breaks wrong, but here's the complete text:


art

as
the
spirit
wanes
the form
appears


It seems to me that the truest faith just is. The weaker the faith, the stronger the need for ritual and for the safety of the mob.

Of course, I may be completely wrong. :-)

[badgerpup]

8. Think you hit the nail bang on the head.

As the rituals grow more and more complex and elaborate, they come to take the place of the actual spiritual element.
We see it today in the 'praying on the street corners'...the more ostentatious the praying, the greater and more devout the 'faith', apparently. :eyes:

Those who simply believe and quietly "walk the walk" as opposed to those who rant talk the talk RIGHT UP IN YOUR FACE tend to get lost in the background.

[Inland]

3. Faith in what? A deity?

Obviously not. There are plenty of secular rituals.

[BurtWorm]

4. Of course there are secular rituals.

Being secular is all about being social.

[Inland]

5. Oh, I see. I got it reversed.

Does faith *require* rituals, not equivalence.

For an individual, not. But religions are are about being social, and ritual seems to follow. I don't think any regular social activities avoid ritual, from sports to government to religion.

[feistydem]

6. No. However, I think most Americans need the rituals in order to feel

like they are being faithful.

I worked for a Buddhist org for a while and I learned that when the Shambhala Tibetan Buddhist sangha was started in the US & Canada it was created as 'ritualized' Buddhism (which annoyed His Holiness the Dalai Lama) so that American Chistians and Jews --who would turn to Buddhism, could 'grasp' it as a faith, rather than the holistic way of being that it really is.

We don't need rituals to be faithful, but we do need faith to be faithful. I suspect we also need a strong sense of self to be faithful without the rituals and to see past what is human invention (often with ulterior motivations) and what is divine (or natural).

[quisp]

7. I don't think so...

I know plenty of spiritual and faithful people who don't participate in any religious ritual. And, conversely, I have faith the size of a mustard seed (but it's big enough), but I love going to and participating in my church.

[feistydem]

9. that was a refreshingly honest response!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. Ritual is one way to access our spiritual side

or if you don't think we have one, perhaps our subconscious? It does SOMETHING, I know that.

My church uses a whole lot of ritual and it is very important to me there, and at certain special events like weddings, baptisms, funerals, etc. But my son is being married Saturday with no religious service and I'm just as excited as I was for my daughter, who was married by a priest.

One thing ritual (and music) do for me is give me a link to my past. I like thinking that certain hymns were sung by my great grandparents, and that they partook in certain rituals.

Rituals are very touch things, though. Try and change them at church and you are in for a hard time!

[JerseygirlCT]

17. I agree (no surprise). Not necessary for all, but

can be quite effective.

I like ritual, myself. It's calming and meditative for me. The ritual of our Episcopal church might very well be boring and off-putting to someone else though... in which case, it wouldn't further the person's practice of faith.

I think we tend to create our own rituals as well as the more publicly known ones.

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. More than that: rituals give shape to our lives

I had a business for several years as a civil celebrant, officiating at about 40 weddings, 3 funerals, 2 baby namings, an adoption and a retirement. All of them were secular ceremonies, with no prayers or other references to religion or religious belief.

For whatever reason, ceremony is satisfying; it fulfils a basic human need for social order and community acknowledgement. Religion and spirituality are just one way of expressing our need for ritual.

[saltpoint]

11. If ritual is archetypal and occurs across all cultures in all eras,

and if faith rises from it, then a strong case could be made for the social component in faith, yes.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Hmmm.... interesting chicken and egg proposition there

ritual begetting faith or faith creating ritual?

[amitten]

12. No. Lots of faith. No rituals. That's just me, though. n/t

[Kailassa]

13. To me, God is my best buddy.

But it's a friendship between equals, because I believe we are all God. Not that we are godly or perfect, but God is what we are made of, what we can be. And that god is closer to a happy, playful child, who just happens to to be wise, than to any biblical patriarch. So my believe is expressed simply, by feeing an inner warmth, a supporting presence, and sometimes feeling that I'm being given advice.

Rituals are fine, for other people, but I'm a loner. My faith is as undeniable as my own bones are, but it's not at all a public thing.

[davidinalameda]

14. no

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. No, being human requires ritual. Faith has nothing to do with it.

If one has faith in something, one will likely have some rituals pertaining to that faith.

But even without any faith, EVERYONE is imbued and participates in ritual. It's an unavoidal human activity.

[CatholicEdHead]

16. Ritual is optional, it depends on the person

Some people are more motivated by it and are refreshed by it. But as was mentioned above you have to watch out for the trap where rituals end up driving out faith. The Roman Catholic Church is moving back in this direction in many ways. Those who promote the old-time rituals and rules tend to get promoted.

[NMMNG]

19. I think some *people* require ritual,

and that high levels of ritual can feed their faith. When I was a Christian I tended to prefer less ritual in church services, and towards the end even stopped going to church and joined the ranks of the "faithful but not religious". I read the Bible and devotional/inspirational books nearly every day, often for hours at a time, but never went to church even on the typical holidays that draw infrequent churchgoers.

[Odin2005]

21. Attempts at getting rid of ritual seems to be the driving force in the...

evolution of religion, IMO.

In the first generation of civilizations (the pre-classical ancient world) world religion consisted of keeping up with the correctly doing rituals designed to keep the gods from smiting your community, religion was pretty much entirely a social thing.

When this first generation of civilization went into decline they gave rise to what became the "Eastern Cults" of the classical world (Isis and Osiris, Cybele, Orphism, etc.). This started an increase of the importance of personal salvation compared to ritual.

In the second generation civilizations the religous forces unleashed by the rise of these salvationist cults culminated in the birth of the great religions, Christanity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroasterianism, Hinduism, and Mahayana Buddhism, all of which are quite salvationist.

[indigolake]

22. Rituals Give Focus

Saying faith doesn't need ritual is like saying marriage doesn't need sex or love. Sure, some marriages blossom wonderfully without that ritual of making love or the ritual of kissing your partner, but if it never happens in a marriage, sometimes a spouse can begin to wonder about the marriage.

Here's another analogy: Are you a democrat if you never vote?

Rituals solidify a bond one has for a cause or belief and prove not only to others but to that individual that they are a part of that cause. Rituals unify people and they bring out the physical, mental and spiritual aspects of that unity.

As we go on in our daily routines to survive and live, rituals also keep the individual focused on their cause or belief so that they are able to stand for something, lest they fall for anything.

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. Very well stated.

And welcome to DU, indigolake! :hi:

[indigolake]

26. Thanks, TechBear!

I'm enjoying my time at DU!

[nemo137]

24. I don't think it does, but I prefer it.

It helps me focus on what I'm doing and thinking about.

[lvx35]

25. Faith is an internal phenomenon.

That's why the external manifestations are so weird.

[Generic Brad]

27. To each his or her own

I personally become baffled when some people confuse ritual with spirituality. Attending church services does not necessarily make one more moral or deserving of God's grace than someone who does not.

I do not presume to know what is another's heart. For some the rituals are deeply moving experiences. For others rituals seem a hollow exercise and feelings of being connected with God are experienced in more private and personal ways. I belong to the latter group. I do not make any effort to convince people who have beliefs that are contrary or different to mine that they should be following the same path I am on. There are many religions; there are many avenues to spirituality. But I do feel deeply wounded when self proclaimed people of faith tell me I am condemned to hell, unethical, and/or immoral because I do not participate in religious rituals (as if that negates every good thing done in a lifetime). Then again, that's just my personal baggage talking.

[godhatesrepublicans]

28. Probably. Faith is just philosophy that dictates a course of action, IMHO

Of course someone will argue with me on that point I'm sure.... ;-)

[LaurenG]

29. I think it doesn't

but ritual sort of invites in a state of mind so I think it helps some people to "gear up" to getting in the mood for certain activities. Like foreplay for the faithful.

[SPKrazy]

30. No, But Many Enjoy Ritual And The Company Of Others In It

but faith does not require ritual

an advantage of ritual is that it serves as a trigger to the mind to go into a state that the person associates with their worship or beliefs.

The social factor is another for many. In fact, some go for the social factor only.

[bluesbassman]

31. Ritual is a manifestation of faith.

Certainly not all rituals, as many rituals are more along the lines of ceremony or social interaction. I think it really comes down to the intent of the believer as to the relationship between the "ritual" and the believers faith. Two contrasts; John's only prayer time is parroting the prayer invoked by the pastor every Sunday morning, while Jane devotes an hour every morning to prayer, during which time she earnestly seeks God's will and inspiration for her life. Both would be considered rituals, however I think it's clear from this example which "ritual" is faith inspired and which is not.

So does faith require ritual? I don't think it does. Rather, faith produces action, be it stepping out into the unknown, or standing firm in a present circumstance.