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liberal43110 (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:29 PM Original message |
Religion vs. Logic |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:29 PM Response to Original message |
1. munch munch... |
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liberal43110 (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Any idea why people claim this? |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:34 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Don't look at me, |
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Notary Sojac (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 09:51 AM Response to Reply #2 |
27. Many Christians admit that their beliefs are illogical... |
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Orrex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 12:08 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. Welcome to DU |
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Notary Sojac (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 08:51 PM Response to Reply #32 |
38. Thanx PA |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 02:01 AM Response to Reply #27 |
42. Deleted message |
funflower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 03:46 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Welcome to DU, gauche. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
3. If a premise or two is accepted on faith, |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:40 PM Response to Reply #3 |
8. In other words, |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:47 PM Response to Reply #8 |
13. No. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:51 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. Then what do you call accepting a premise or two on faith? |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:57 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. Cartesian. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 11:09 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Right. |
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liberal43110 (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:42 PM Response to Reply #3 |
9. That wasn't my point |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:48 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. Then you're not talking about logic. |
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khashka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:48 PM Response to Reply #3 |
15. Yes! |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:55 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. You're welcome. |
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Ready4Change (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 11:01 PM Response to Reply #3 |
22. Can it be considered valid? |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 11:11 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. As valid as the premise. |
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Orrex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 12:21 PM Response to Reply #24 |
34. Is it sound? |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 01:01 PM Response to Reply #34 |
113. Yes |
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Orrex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 12:12 PM Response to Reply #3 |
33. Feet of clay |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 01:06 AM Response to Reply #33 |
41. Especially because this God kills us off like he was swatting flies. |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 06:40 PM Response to Reply #33 |
69. Assumptions don't come in sizes, really, not for purposes of logic. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 06:53 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Assumptions are judged on their quality all the time. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 06:56 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. You beat me to it! |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:02 PM Response to Reply #70 |
74. Not for logic. To call one "big" or "small" |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:07 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. I'm sorry, what did you say? |
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bee (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:34 PM Response to Original message |
5. This isnt going to be pretty. |
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Hello_Kitty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:37 PM Response to Original message |
6. I don't care if they think they're being rational |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 11:43 PM Response to Reply #6 |
25. I'm with you, ccbombs. |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:38 PM Response to Original message |
7. Actually, I've never run across a religious person . . . |
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liberal43110 (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:43 PM Response to Reply #7 |
10. I see it here all the time |
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MrModerate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Scary . . . and heretical, too . . . |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 03:29 PM Response to Reply #12 |
64. Are we only talking about Christians? |
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CarbonDate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 03:50 PM Response to Reply #10 |
115. There's one in particular.... |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-18-06 12:06 PM Response to Reply #7 |
99. Now you have. :) n/t |
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EST (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:45 PM Response to Original message |
11. Why don't you just give it a rest? |
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CatholicEdHead (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:47 PM Response to Original message |
14. Logic is often in the symbolism of the dogma |
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Ready4Change (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:54 PM Response to Original message |
18. Well, not me, but... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 09:58 PM Response to Reply #18 |
57. It sounds like their faith is based on logic, but not necessarily truth. |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 09:06 PM Response to Reply #57 |
89. That's right: one can always dispute the premise |
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StClone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-08-06 10:55 PM Response to Original message |
19. Faith vs Logic |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-09-06 04:07 AM Response to Original message |
26. The reason religion exists |
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Zebedeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 12:27 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. This is a frequently stated canard about religious people |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:25 AM Response to Reply #28 |
30. Stop the presses - I agree with you, Zebedeo. |
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Zebedeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 02:37 PM Response to Reply #30 |
35. I can feel the love |
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CarbonDate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 12:37 AM Response to Reply #30 |
119. Yes, but.... |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 03:27 PM Response to Reply #28 |
63. I must also agree with you. |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #63 |
91. of course |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 08:01 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. Ease their minds? Not about death, surely. |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 08:34 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. Ask any religious person |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 09:49 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. The contradiction isn't resolved. |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 10:07 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Did I ever say... |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 10:56 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Then religion serves contradictory purposes? |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-17-06 11:17 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Not contradictory purposes |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-18-06 11:27 AM Response to Reply #91 |
98. I don't know about that. |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 06:17 AM Response to Reply #98 |
100. well |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 12:10 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Yes, it is, |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 07:56 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. Myself |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-20-06 10:43 AM Response to Reply #103 |
108. Not bad reasoning. :) |
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CarbonDate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 12:48 AM Response to Reply #101 |
120. Premature death bothers me. |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 02:58 AM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Well, I've already done all the passing on I'm going to, |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 09:22 AM Response to Reply #120 |
123. What bothers me is... |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-06-06 07:35 PM Response to Reply #26 |
129. Some people to come to religion because of logic |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:22 AM Response to Original message |
29. What's wrong with saying religion is "rational"? Aristotle... |
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Exiled in America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:21 PM Response to Reply #29 |
40. well said. |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 06:56 PM Response to Reply #29 |
72. Well said. In fact, we all live for and pursuant to matters |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:01 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. You're a hoot, Inland! |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:05 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. You recognized yourself, did you? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:07 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. What's that? |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:08 PM Response to Reply #75 |
78. You never answered Zhade. |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 01:12 PM Response to Reply #29 |
124. Aquinas "quite rationally explained God"? Unbelievable. |
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Exiled in America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 12:02 PM Response to Original message |
31. Faith may not be "rational" but it is also not "irrational" |
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bee (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 04:56 PM Response to Reply #31 |
37. Can you define "justifiable foundation" ... |
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Exiled in America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 09:20 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. sure, when you define the "justifiable foundation" for poety. |
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bee (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 07:05 PM Response to Reply #39 |
47. LOL. Im Sorry... |
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Exiled in America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 11:44 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Ohh - don't you hate that when that happens? :D |
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BoneDaddy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 10:45 AM Response to Reply #39 |
60. agreed |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 11:55 AM Response to Reply #31 |
50. Well said :-) |
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Strong Atheist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-10-06 02:48 PM Response to Original message |
36. Oh, boy! |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 07:40 AM Response to Original message |
44. Greetings from the birthplace of much Xian "logic..." |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 12:49 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. So many heresies to explore, so little time! |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 06:41 AM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Can't buy the argument about "not always a good thing" |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 03:31 PM Response to Reply #48 |
55. The "Western Mind" had some ethical issues to work out... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 10:36 PM Response to Reply #44 |
58. Thanks for your post - your insights are always fascinating. |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-11-06 02:41 PM Response to Original message |
46. Logical vs. Rational |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 12:00 PM Response to Reply #46 |
51. Well said - indeed Truth can not be known, so why hurl "irrational" at |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 12:40 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Because untruth can be shown. |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 02:02 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Some dearly held beliefs can be shown to be irrational if one means by |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 02:37 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. I used Platonic to mean the ideal case. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-12-06 09:47 PM Response to Original message |
56. Religious believers can be very logical about their beliefs. |
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Dogmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 10:30 AM Response to Original message |
59. Amazed, or dismissive? |
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BoneDaddy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 02:07 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. Well said |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:12 PM Response to Reply #59 |
79. But suppose "rational" and "logical" are defined |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:06 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. Did you misplace this reply? |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:09 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. I put it here in support of the "dismissive" possibility |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:14 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. How about this box? |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:16 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. Error? Pidwidgeon's post, or mine? |
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funflower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-20-06 04:53 AM Response to Reply #59 |
107. There are better reasons to believe some things than others. |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
62. What if that religion follows the premises of science? |
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ozone_man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 04:44 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. If it follows the premises of science, |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 06:02 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. When one speaks of "ancient superstitions", |
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ozone_man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-13-06 07:59 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Philosophy is not superstition. |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-14-06 01:43 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. I agree with you. |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:15 PM Response to Original message |
80. If you want the LONG explanation |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 07:24 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. More rationality than you've put into your beliefs, that's for sure. |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:32 PM Response to Original message |
86. Hey, Look what I found: MLK's thoughts on rationality |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:35 PM Response to Reply #86 |
87. How odd that you would quote MLK after posting this: |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 08:37 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. What would King think of your dismissal of the civil rights of others? |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-16-06 10:25 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Oops, wrong link. |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 05:51 PM Response to Original message |
102. That's not true |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 07:57 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. Everyone |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-19-06 08:54 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Please... |
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onager (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-20-06 01:43 AM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Then provide some examples... |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-20-06 10:57 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. I have |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 09:42 AM Response to Reply #109 |
111. Answer his question |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 12:46 PM Response to Reply #111 |
112. I did |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 06:45 PM Response to Reply #112 |
116. No you didn't!! |
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manic expression (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 09:53 PM Response to Reply #116 |
117. ... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 03:45 AM Response to Original message |
110. Faith / Logic gap |
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WritingIsMyReligion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 03:38 PM Response to Original message |
114. I'm a logical person who's very spiritual... |
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yellowdoginGA (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-21-06 11:15 PM Response to Original message |
118. thomas aquinas said |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 03:11 AM Response to Reply #118 |
122. Arke |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 01:43 PM Response to Reply #118 |
125. Which invalidates his argument, of course. |
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yellowdoginGA (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 03:06 PM Response to Reply #125 |
126. so? |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-22-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #126 |
127. Maybe there is no chain reaction |
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Arianrhod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-23-06 10:58 AM Response to Reply #126 |
128. Since virtual particles are constantly appearing out of the void, |
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