Poll says U.S. majority believes in God (82% believe)

[sabra]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051225-08363900-bc-us-godpoll.xml

Poll says U.S. majority believes in God

WASHINGTON, Dec. 25 (UPI) -- An overwhelming majority of U.S. residents believes in God, miracles and life after death, results of a poll reported Sunday indicate.

The Harris poll of 889 adults found 82 percent believe in God, 73 percent believe in miracles and 70 percent believe there is life after death, the Washington Times reported.

In addition, 70 percent said heaven exists and 70 percent also cited Jesus as the son of God.

Six out of 10 said there is a devil and hell exists as well, the poll revealed.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I know the figures could never be available

but I wonder what they would be world-wide? I wonder where the US fits into the grand scheme of things?

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Here's the answer

(it ain't pretty, the US "believes" like a third-word country)

Among Wealthy Nations …
U.S. Stands Alone in its Embrace of Religion

Released: December 19, 2002



Religion is much more important to Americans than to people living in other wealthy nations. Six-in-ten (59%) people in the U.S. say religion plays a very important role in their lives. This is roughly twice the percentage of self-avowed religious people in Canada (30%), and an even higher proportion when compared with Japan and Western Europe. Americans’ views are closer to people in developing nations than to the publics of developed nations.

The 44-nation survey of the Pew Global Attitudes Project shows stark global regional divides over the personal importance of religion.<1> In Africa, no fewer than eight-in-ten in any country see religion as very important personally. Majorities in every Latin American country also subscribe to that view, with the exception of Argentina. More than nine-in-ten respondents in the predominantly Muslim nations of Indonesia, Pakistan, Mali and Senegal rate religion as personally very important. In Turkey and Uzbekistan, however, people are more divided over religion’s importance.

Secularism is particularly prevalent throughout Europe. Even in heavily Catholic Italy fewer than three-in-ten (27%) people say religion is very important personally, a lack of intensity in belief that is consistent with opinion in other Western European nations. Attitudes are comparable in former Soviet bloc countries. In the Czech Republic, fully 71% say religion has little or no importance in their lives – more than any nation surveyed – while barely one-in-ten (11%) say it is very important. And in Poland, the birthplace of the Pope and where the Catholic Church played a pivotal role during the communist era, just 36% say religion is very important.



more: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=167

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Very interesting data

thanks for researching and posting. I'm not quite sure what conclusions to draw. Have to think this one through.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Interesting results from a study by the Journal of Religion and Society.

Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies

Results

<13> Among the developed democracies absolute belief in God, attendance of religious services and Bible literalism vary over a dozenfold, atheists and agnostics five fold, prayer rates fourfold, and acceptance of evolution almost twofold. Japan, Scandinavia, and France are the most secular nations in the west, the United States is the only prosperous first world nation to retain rates of religiosity otherwise limited to the second and third worlds (Bishop; PEW). Prosperous democracies where religiosity is low (which excludes the U.S.) are referred to below as secular developed democracies.

*****

<15> A few hundred years ago rates of homicide were astronomical in Christian Europe and the American colonies (Beeghley; R. Lane). In all secular developed democracies a centuries long-term trend has seen homicide rates drop to historical lows (Figure 2). The especially low rates in the more Catholic European states are statistical noise due to yearly fluctuations incidental to this sample, and are not consistently present in other similar tabulations (Barcley and Tavares). Despite a significant decline from a recent peak in the 1980s (Rosenfeld), the U.S. is the only prosperous democracy that retains high homicide rates, making it a strong outlier in this regard (Beeghley; Doyle, 2000). Similarly, theistic Portugal also has rates of homicides well above the secular developed democracy norm. Mass student murders in schools are rare, and have subsided somewhat since the 1990s, but the U.S. has experienced many more (National School Safety Center) than all the secular developed democracies combined. Other prosperous democracies do not significantly exceed the U.S. in rates of nonviolent and in non-lethal violent crime (Beeghley; Farrington and Langan; Neapoletan), and are often lower in this regard. The United States exhibits typical rates of youth suicide (WHO), which show little if any correlation with theistic factors in the prosperous democracies (Figure 3). The positive correlation between pro-theistic factors and juvenile mortality is remarkable, especially regarding absolute belief, and even prayer (Figure 4). Life spans tend to decrease as rates of religiosity rise (Figure 5), especially as a function of absolute belief. Denmark is the only exception. Unlike questionable small-scale epidemiological studies by Harris et al. and Koenig and Larson, higher rates of religious affiliation, attendance, and prayer do not result in lower juvenile-adult mortality rates on a cross-national basis.<6>***

*****

<19> If the data showed that the U.S. enjoyed higher rates of societal health than the more secular, pro-evolution democracies, then the opinion that popular belief in a creator is strongly beneficial to national cultures would be supported. Although they are by no means utopias, the populations of secular democracies are clearly able to govern themselves and maintain societal cohesion. Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards. The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator. The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted. Contradicting these conclusions requires demonstrating a positive link between theism and societal conditions in the first world with a similarly large body of data - a doubtful possibility in view of the observable trends.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

[moggie]

38. The correlation between religious belief and crime is fascinating

Is religious belief a psychosis which carries violent tendencies, or do violent people use a god to salve their conscience?

[beam me up scottie]

40. Hey there, moggie!

You ask some tough questions.

The answer to your second question is definitely yes but I'm not so sure about the first.

I think that it's easier to manipulate the consciences of religious followers-not all of them, of course, but a good percentage of them.

If you can convince them that their deity says it's okay to murder or commit other violent crimes in his name, they will never lose a wink of sleep over their acts.

It's far easier to convince yourself that god directed you than it is to examine your true motives.

And organized religion, for the most part, has never been known to reward those who question anything.

[moggie]

101. The origin of morality

I'm continually amazed and disturbed by that fraction of Christians who can't understand how atheists can be moral. It certainly appears that there are some Christians whose baser urges are kept in check only by fear of retribution. And, since they believe we're all sinners and their god is forgiving, some of them, including clergy, feel free to give in to those urges, repeatedly (I'm thinking in particular of child abuse). I'd say that there's something wrong in the heads of those people, at least.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

107. It's not just Christians

I'm an atheist, and while I try and behave in a moral fashion I have considerable difficulty answering the questions "why should one do good instead of evil" and "why do you do good instead of evil".

The only answer I have to the first one is "because that's what the word 'should' means" - the definitions of should, ought, good, moral, and so on only make sense with reference to one another.

The answer to the second one is harder - I suspect the answer is partly "evolution favours team players", partly "because of societal influences", and partly (largely) because I (and all other humans) can imagine being in someone else's shoes, and being able to do so feel bad about making other people feel bad, and vice versa, and "making other people feel good" is in essence what morality is. That's not a terribly satisfying answer.

One thing most religions have in common (although not all, by any means) is that they teach that being moral (and/or behaving in a fashion considered desirable in the society the religion has its roots in) is benefical to oneself. I don't believe, however, that that is true, which makes justifying morality a lot harder.

On the other hand, my impression (purely based on anecdotal evidence) is not that atheists are on average less moral than e.g. Christians from similar upbringings (although I don't have any statistics on e.g. charitable donations, and would like to see some if anyone has any), which suggests to me that morality is primarily instinctive rather than conscious.

[Zebedeo]

118. Since you asked,

I would be happy to oblige.

You said:

I don't have any statistics on e.g. charitable donations, and would like to see some if anyone has any

Please see the following link:

Religious Faith and Charitable Giving

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent).

The large chasm in charitable giving between secular and religious people is found both among political liberals and political conservatives.

Note that neither political ideology nor income is responsible for much of the charitable differences between secular and religious people. For example, religious liberals are 19 points more likely than secular liberals to give to charity, while religious conservatives are 28 points more likely than secular conservatives to do so.

Statistically, the major factor determining whether an individual person will be charitable is whether that person is religious. Those are the facts, not opinion.

This is not to say that all atheists are uncharitable, or that all religious people are charitable. As with any large group of people, some will be characteristic of the group and some will not. But on the whole, the best predictor of whether a person will be charitable is whether that person is religious.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

120. Thank you.

I'm somewhat depressed to see that, but it is interesting to know. I suppose I shall have to reconsider my views to some extent in the light of that.


P.S. the link seems to be broken.

[Zebedeo]

122. Trying again on link

Thank you for alerting me to the broken link. Apparently it is too late to edit my post (editing time expired).

I found the article by doing a Google search, because the question you raised inspired my own curiosity. BTW, I have a close friend who is an atheist and he is very charitable. In fact, he has been more charitable throughout his life than I have been, so I am well aware that atheists are not always uncharitable.

Anyway, in trying to fix the broken link, I discovered that the publisher of the article, Policy Review, seems to be related to the Hoover Institute, a politically conservative think tank. This provides a reason to doubt the credibility of the research, and its conclusions. The author of the piece is identified as Arthur C. Brooks, an associate professor at Syracuse. I do not know whether he has any kind of axe to grind concerning this issue. I also don't know whether similar findings have been made by other researchers. In short, I don't vouch for the accuracy of the research and I would keep an open mind on the issue and see what other research results are out there.

But I appreciate your post and your expressed willingness to reconsider your views. I perhaps posted too fast. I saw your question, became interested, did a quick search, and it seemed that I had found the answer, so I posted it. It may well be the correct answer, but I will also be willing to reconsider and keep an open mind on the subject.

Here's my second attempt at the link:

linky

[BlueEyedSon]

42. Religion is primarily a system for control by a an overclass... what

the members of the underclass do to each other is irrelevant .....

[moggie]

99. It's interesting that you bring up class

Crime, of course, has a strong correlation with poverty. If you're poor, you're more likely to turn to crime, either from necessity or as a reaction to the stresses resulting from your situation. In turn, poverty correlates with educational level: if you're poorly educated, you're more likely to be poor, and if you're from a poor family, you're less likely to do well at school (a vicious cycle). And, finally, it seems to me (though I haven't seen much hard data on this) that religious belief correlates with educational level: you're more likely to be religious if you're poorly educated (see, for example, the clear correlation between education and creationist belief in the US).

Reduce poverty and improve education, and you'll certainly reduce crime, and may also see a reduction in the excessive regligiosity of the US.

[Divine Discontent]

74. my answer to your ?

I use my God for salvation and reassurance that in the final count of everything, I'm with him/her.

[moggie]

100. Revealing choice of words

You use your god? Hmm (strokes chin), I thought it was supposed to be the other way around! Seems to me that Christians used to ask "what can I do for God?", while nowadays they tend to ask "what can God do for me?". Religion as just another lifestyle accessory.

[ozone_man]

109. U.S. prosperity does not commute to societal health.

From the same report. Prosperity, in the case of the U.S., doesn't commute to societal health. This is the problem. We are the most capitalistic country in the developed world, and perhaps the most backward in terms of health care, welfare, and education.

<20> The United States’ deep social problems are all the more disturbing because the nation enjoys exceptional per capita wealth among the major western nations (Barro and McCleary; Kasman; PEW; UN Development Programme, 2000, 2004). Spending on health care is much higher as a portion of the GDP and per capita, by a factor of a third to two or more, than in any other developed democracy (UN Development Programme, 2000, 2004). The U.S. is therefore the least efficient western nation in terms of converting wealth into cultural and physical health. Understanding the reasons for this failure is urgent, and doing so requires considering the degree to which cause versus effect is responsible for the observed correlations between social conditions and religiosity versus secularism. It is therefore hoped that this initial look at a subject of pressing importance will inspire more extensive research on the subject. Pressing questions include the reasons, whether theistic or non-theistic, that the exceptionally wealthy U.S. is so inefficient that it is experiencing a much higher degree of societal distress than are less religious, less wealthy prosperous democracies. Conversely, how do the latter achieve superior societal health while having little in the way of the religious values or institutions? There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms (Aral and Holmes; Beeghley, Doyle, 2002). It is the responsibility of the research community to address controversial issues and provide the information that the citizens of democracies need to chart their future courses.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

From another report, a study of education versus religion in the U.S.

In the United States, religious attendance rises sharply with education across individuals,
but religious attendance declines sharply with education across denominations. This
puzzle is explained if education both increases the returns to social connection and
reduces the extent of religious belief, and if beliefs are closely linked to denominations.
The positive effect of education on social connection is the result of both treatment and
selection: schooling creates social skills and people who are good at sitting still. And,
people who are innately better at listening have lower costs of both school and social
activities, such as church. The negative effect of education on religious belief occurs
because secular education emphasizes secular beliefs that are at odds with many
traditional religious views.

http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/glaeser/papers/Ed_and_Rel.pdf

[beam me up scottie]

112. Interesting study.

In the context of religion and education, the most natural omitted factor is the degree of religious
belief, i.e. the extent to which individuals believe that there are returns to religious activity.5
Measures of religious belief are strongly correlated with religious attendance and negatively
associated with education. Less educated people are more likely to believe in miracles, heaven,
devils, and the literal truth of the Bible. Furthermore, denominations are, to a significant extent,
defined by their beliefs, and unsurprisingly sorting across denominations on the basis of religious
beliefs is stronger than sorting across denominations on the basis of education. As such,
religious belief is a natural omitted factor that is negatively correlated with education, positively
correlated with attendance and very important for sorting across denominations.

[VegasWolf]

34. One can scare the common folk with religion only so long I guess! nt

[BlueEyedSon]

41. Or not!

[papau]

51. Here is actual data for 2002 PEW poll - 87% find religion important in US

Q.22 How important would you say religion is in your own life very important, fairly important, or not very
important?

Very Fairly Not very Don't know/
Important Important Important Refused
March, 2002 63 24 12 1=100
Mid-November, 2001 61 24 14 1=100
March, 2001 64 23 12 1=100
March, 2000 (Gallup) 61 27 12 *=100
June, 1998 (Gallup) 62 25 12 1=100
June, 1996 59 26 15 *=100
March, 1994 (Gallup) 59 29 11 1=100
March, 1988 (Gallup) 54 31 14 1=100
March, 1984 (Gallup) 56 30 13 1=100
April, 1978 (Gallup) 52 32 14 2=100
November, 1965 (Gallup) 70 22 7 1=100

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

59. interesting...ANYONE here thinks ATHEISTS may be THE MAJORITY?

God is not necessarily the same as "God" of the Southern Kristchen Rite with a rebel flag on the bumper of the pickup truck.

Most of the World believes in God by one name or another.
What's so surprising about this?

[papau]

78. 95% or more belief in God, 87% such belief is important in daily life

Where the "secular" wealthy "western" countries (Japan being one) differ from the USA is in the "important in daily life" response.

Nations (in the EU) listed as well under 50% in the "very important" question are found to be at least mid 60% Christian in other surveys.

[Warpy]

7. The US has more believers than most other places

probably because it's been so long since we've had a Depression and fought a war on our own soil. It's really easy to believe in devine benificence when you're safe and life is going well.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. But with that line of thinking

Afghanistan should have been bereft of faith.. instead they got the Taliban.

What do you think happened there?

[xchrom]

21. actually when you consider

the napoleonic wars, WWI and WWII --as well as other continuous endless colonial conflicts sapping the young of europe on a continuous basis -- plus a far heavier handed catholic church -- you have a continent that far exceeds most other countries experiences with war.

combine that with the industrial revolution ever so slowly floating more boats as it went along in terms of education -- and you have a population that is extremely skeptical of authority.

[hollowdweller]

54. Why the big push by the religious right if 82% believe in God??

I mean why do they feel they need to be in everyones face if that many people believe??

[Selteri]

73. It's called a control issue.NT

[TallahasseeGrannie]

80. Good question.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. Shows how far America has to go

On the bright side, this presumably means that 18% don't believe.

Or, gadzooks, have no opinion. The article doesn't specify.

[HereSince1628]

98. Many are called, few are chosen...you think that means 82% gets it right?

I sorta think not.

The smaller fraction more closely matches the liturgy, maybe only a few can mature to know the truth and maybe they know that what most people believe has no more meaning than belief in Santa or the Easter Bunny.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

3. In a related story

of that 82%, 30% believe Adam and Eve rode to church every Sunday on a dinosaur and that a gossipy water moccasin is the source of all our troubles.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Hell and the Devil

It is interesting to talk to a fundy about these concepts. My husband did this once this way:

What did God make everything out of?

Fundy: I dunno-

What was there in the beginning?

Fundy: God

Then doesn't that mean that God made everything out of God?"

Fundy: I guesso

Name me one thing, therefore, that isn't God.

Fundy: The Anti-Christ!

Gee, an interesting philosophical discussion was nipped in the bud by a closed and uncomprehending mind.

[Clarkie1]

5. What kind of God? male, female, neither?

[Warpy]

8. Everybody knows god is a naked Santa Claus

a bearded old white guy who writes down everything you do and holds it against you when you die.

[beam me up scottie]

12. "70 percent also cited Jesus as the son of God"

But I have a feeling more than 70% believe in the christian god.

[BlueEyedSon]

43. No way. Too many Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc etc

[beam me up scottie]

47. Look again.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

58. Whoa!

You're all fired up tonight! :evilgrin:

I tend to agree with Richard Dawkins' diagnosis myself.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

82. Well if I am insane

(I am a Christian) at least I have good company, with 87 percent of the country with me.

[KittyWampus]

86. Actually, A Slavish Adherence To Materialism Is Our Leading Mental Illness

one that Anti-Theists and many Scientists suffer from. It's also shared by the modern day Elmer Gantry incarnations and the Neo-Cons and Corporate Fascists.

Materialism has left Americans with no room for valuing and exploring those parts of the Natural World and Reality that don't immediately render itself to simple Causality and Dissection.

Millions of Americans try to stuff the holes in their lives with THINGS because the Mindset that the Material World is all there is and all that can be studied empirically.

Your post is so offensive.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

81. Anybody who can describe God

is delusional

[long_green]

9. That's actually lower than some people would have you believe

nm

[beam me up scottie]

15. Which people?

This poll backs up the data from the Pew Research Council that everyone is familiar with.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

[sonicx]

30. Gallup's polls have it in the 90s. nt

[beam me up scottie]

33. That wouldn't surprise me.

The largest survey I've ever seen was the NSRI ( National Survey of Religious Identification) conducted in 1990 with data from 113,000 people.

At the time, their results showed 86.2% of Americans to be christian.

They did another one, ARIS (American Religious Identity Survey), in 2001, this time with 50,000 people, which estimated the figure at 76.5%.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. People answering the survey could be untruthful.

Some would give the "right" (expected) answer because it is politically (and religiously) incorrect to come out in public and label yourself "godless" in American society. God = good and godless = bad to the majority.

[onehandle]

11. 82%? Gosh, That means that a lot of Democrats believe in God. nt

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Wow. That can't be right!

Who woulda thought? LOL

[papau]

46. LOL :-)

:-)

[The River]

17. And 3 Thousand Years Ago

99% believed that the Sun was a God.
Or the Moon or the biggest Tree in the village.
From poly-theistic, to mono-theistic to,
eventually, non-theistic.
Maybe then we will start caring for
each other in the here and now
without the promise of some defered paradise.

[xchrom]

18. but church attendance is on the decline.

[BlueEyedSon]

44. Link? Citation? Statistics?

[jody]

19. Belief in God does not mean accepting fundamentalist Christian dogma. n/t

[Bushies gotta go]

22. WHICH God?

The Christian? The Hindu? The Muslim?

I believe in God but it is not necessarily the same guy a Southern Baptist believes in.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

23. So what?

What most people believe is meaningless. Respect and consideration for all beliefs and non-beliefs is of utmost importance.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

83. I like you.

sit and have a pint with me.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

113. Cheers, Grannie!

Here's to you and yours! :toast:

[Maat]

115. I'm with you and Grannie and GoddessofGuinness!

:toast:

[moggie]

102. Respect for ALL beliefs?

Should I respect the beliefs of white supremacists, Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps? Not all beliefs are equal, and everyone should feel able to stand up and say "your beliefs are wrong and harmful", even if that may offend some people.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

111. I think it's a matter of separating the belief from the bullshit...

The hate-mongers you mention use religion as a cover for their evil work. In fact, those people ARE saying "your beliefs are wrong and harmful", aren't they?

They should be exposed for what they are, and not allowed to hijack a religion and twist it to achieve power and notoriety.

Meanwhile, those who subscribe to religions and non-religions other than Christianity should feel free to do so, and we as a society should celebrate that diversity.

[maryallen]

24. A sample size of 889 adults?

To predict the beliefs of 300 million?

[Moochy]

64. 889 adults at home, with a land-line

And dumb enough to pick up the call from "HARRIS RESEARCH CO" or whatever shows up on the caller id.

Oh wait, I guess us busy people don't get counted. :shrug:

[Lars39]

106. Ran the sampling and total population by my geek-stat husband.

He just rolled his eyes and shook his head. :D

[bemildred]

25. I don't care if they believe in God, it's Jerry Falwell that worries me.

The ones that believe they need to tell everybody what to do and when to do it.

[DIKB]

26. I doubt the accuracy

Though it's still VERY frightening.

You owe it to yourself to go to www.truthdig.com and check out an atheist's manifesto. http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/

[beam me up scottie]

28. It's actually pretty accurate

according to the research done by the PEW Research Council.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

[megatherium]

27. Please do not assume that to be a good progressive, you must

not believe in God or be religious. There is a rich tradition of involvement in social issues by conscientious believers, such as Quakers and their work for peace, or many people in many churches who worked hard for civil rights in the 1960s. People who believe in God or are religious are not necessarily superstitious, bigoted or intellectually deficient.

Of course non-believers and agnostics (or believers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster) deserve the greatest respect as well. I am a Christian (liberal Episcopalian) but I do not believe in a God that sends people to the hot place for not believing in Doctrine A or Doctrine B. Indeed, I am not sure I believe in a hot place at all (I definitely don't believe in eternal punishment).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

84. We share a denomination

and I think the "hot place" is on earth already.

My only problem with the Flying Spaghetti Monster folks is that I crave pasta whenever I ponder their god. That, and their music sucks.

[Maat]

116. I agree.

I believe that all paths lead to One, or I honor all paths (not all behavior).

I support my progressive Christian friends; I'm a non-Christian Religious Scientist who believes in Spirit, and I have PLENTY of education, I fight for human rights like many on this Board, and my law professors did not think I was intellectually deficient. I honor the non-believer's path and uncertain one's path as well. I also do not believe in eternal punishment.

[Pastiche423]

29. Bullshit

899 people do not represent the entirety of our country.

[Moochy]

65. Maybe they asked the same

ones that the Rasmussen poll just asked? The one showing bush at 50% approval ratings again...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

85. This is a field I know zilch about

but aren't all polls done using a smaller sample of population?

[whathappened]

31. talking to neightbor who i trust

about the word of the lord , he says to me one day , as i asked the question to him about how the politians can run around with a bible in one hand and lie on the other hand , he said no born again christain should even think about running for a polictical office , it is not possable to not lie well being in office , is he right on the mark

[PurityOfEssence]

32. It's holding fairly steady, too.

Statistics for quite some time have shown it to be around 85% or so, which doesn't seem too out of whack. We are by far and away the most religious of any industrialized nation.

This number is a tad lower than many I've heard over the years, so maybe there's hope for us: perhaps the believers are losing a bit of ground.

[VegasWolf]

35. At first I thought that this was a frightening number for an educated

nation, but then I remembered that we are 30th in the world in overall literacy, 28th in the world in science and mathematics, etc. Then it all made sense.

[powwowdancer]

36. It's misleading...

In the extreme. In the current, bass-ackward, socio-political climate, 82% of those Americans actually polled SAY they believe in God. I wonder how many thoughtful agnostics simply decided to say "yeah," rather than "no." Was the poll conducted in the bible belt? Were the pollee's all white? Frankly, I'm so sick of being bludgeoned with religion, that I'm almost, (but not quite), about to lose mine. It puts me in mind of an old saying, "When all you've got is a hammer, all your problems start to look like nails." When a braying ass talks about "god," said ass invariably makes god sound like a braying ass. When a neo-nazi or Klansman talk about god, all of a sudden, god sounds like a real stupid bigot. This is what I call "the god dilemma." i.e., we've anthropomorphized the unknowable in order to be able to relate to the concept in a culturally relative way to the point where god is now made in man's image. Reductio Ad Absurdum. By this I mean, according to whack-O, bass-ackward fundies, god's an angry, white, male (does he have a dick, or is he content just to be one?) republican who could benefit from a lengthy vacation, some anger-management and a prescription of chill pills. Leave it to rethugs to turn god into an asshole. Ordinarily, I just wouldn't care, but these wankers are currently running (and ruining) my beautiful republic.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[Celeborn Skywalker]

61. If they were all white, that would bias it toward unbelievers.

Whites are the least religious out of the three main ethnic groups in this country (the other two being black and hispanic).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

88. That is certainly my experience as well.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

87. I agree with most of your points

but I trust poll companies have this stuff down a bit better than that.

We trust them when Bush's numbers go down, so I'm going to trust them with this information.

In my personal life I would say about 95 percent of the people who are colleagues, neighbors, etc., are Christians in name at least. I life in a small city in the Bible Belt. I am from a northern industrial city and I'd guess the number there was a bit lower because of a heavy Jewish population.

I am sure that in heavily urbanized areas the number will be very different.

[kineneb]

37. it is not what you believe, but what you do

contrary to popular opinion, and Paul's spin. The Zoroastrians had it right long before the OT and NT: Think good thoughts, say good words, do good deeds. If you believe but still treat your fellow beings like crap, you have not improved the world with your existance.

So how many of those who answered yes on the poll actually do anything to assist their fellow beings and the planet? Damned few, I am willing to bet. Jesus knew about these types and railed against them.

[mmonk]

39. What's the point in these polls?

To make people that support the establishment clause of the constitution uneasy?

[papau]

49. These polls are a test of reading ability- Admitted as BS in last paragrah

of the actual poll where "Harris Interactive" talks about its "online" pannel, getting a cross section that is in line with their actual proportions in the population, with Propensity score weighting used to adjust for respondents’ propensity to be online. It notes unusual sources of error, or likely size of error, exist "including refusals to be interviewed (nonresponse), question wording and question order, and weighting. It is impossible to quantify the errors that may result from these factors."

AND THEN THE REVELATION:


"This online sample was not a probability sample."

The Gallup poll and the PEW poll on religion are real - this is not.

[powwowdancer]

114. exactly...

what is the purpose? I didn't mean to sound anti-christian in my earlier post, (I respect all those who follow the teachings of Christ, it's just that organized religion seems to have less and less to do with that these days), it's just the current junta... well, you know. They've used the concept of god and the name of christ to do some pretty evil stuff. The purpose of the poll IMHO is to try to get folks on board with W or make you feel "un-christian" if you don't feel the same way they do... or I could just be gun shy from all the evil stuff that's been done in god's name by chimpula. Good point about the polls, though... we do tend to trust 'em when it's something we wanna hear. I am duly humbled by that notion. I guess I'm tired of seeing God take the rap for all of the evil shit this fascist regime has perpetrated. Ah, well.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[BlueEyedSon]

45. EVERYBODY READ THIS (if this thread interests you)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2006491&mesg_id=2006498

[pop goes the weasel]

48. That's an increase in atheists

The last poll I saw (late 2001) said that slightly more than 14% of Americans were of "no religion," a category which could include not only atheists but also theists who did not have a specific belief. For 18% to now outright say they do not believe in God is a remarkable change in just a few short years.

[papau]

50. PEW 2002 poll says 87% religion "important" in their life

Q.22 How important would you say religion is in your own life very important, fairly important, or not very
important?

Very Fairly Not very Don't know/
Important Important Important Refused
March, 2002 63 24 12 1=100
Mid-November, 2001 61 24 14 1=100
March, 2001 64 23 12 1=100
March, 2000 (Gallup) 61 27 12 *=100
June, 1998 (Gallup) 62 25 12 1=100
June, 1996 59 26 15 *=100
March, 1994 (Gallup) 59 29 11 1=100
March, 1988 (Gallup) 54 31 14 1=100
March, 1984 (Gallup) 56 30 13 1=100
April, 1978 (Gallup) 52 32 14 2=100
November, 1965 (Gallup) 70 22 7 1=100

[Skittles]

52. I'm sure a lot of them are afraid not to

you are demonized in this counrty and most of the world if you refuse to believe in fairy tales

[TallahasseeGrannie]

89. I personally, as a Christian do not demonize

you for not being a believer.

I do believe, however, your characterizing the faith of other people as "fairy tales" shows rather bad manners.

But manners, like faith, are the prerogative of the individual who ultimately is the one to be held accountable for either.

[bluerum]

53. And how many masturbate on a regular basis? n/t

[TallahasseeGrannie]

93. No, dear...different poll

[VegasWolf]

103. ROFL! Good one! nt

:toast:

[Placebo]

55. Onward Christian Soldiers!

:patriot:

[jackpan1260]

56. I believe in some sort of God and some sort of afterlife, so what?

[Common Sense Party]

62. Apparently we're in the minority around here.

So let me get this straight: If I believe that God exists and wants me to be kind to others, serve them, help them, and try to be a good person in all that I think, do and say...

Around here, I'm a religious extremist and a nutcase?

Am I reading these other posts correctly?

[beam me up scottie]

63. No, you're just a member of the same club.

that the extremists and nutcases belong to.

Don't expect people around here to give christianity a pass when it comes to politics.

Especially those that have suffered at the hands of its followers.

[Common Sense Party]

66. "Christianity is a mental illness."

Ooookay.

[beam me up scottie]

67. Most of us are able to distinguish

between the talibornagains and the liberal christians who post here.

I try to qualify my statements and apologize when I don't.

But you will see a lot of anger here directed towards those who have hijacked your faith, and all of it is justified, IMO.

I'd like to see more of it coming from people like you, to be honest.

Who listens to .4% of the country?

[beam me up scottie]

71. Didn't mean to be rude.

Welcome to DU, CSP.:hi:

You'll find you're in the majority here.

The real brawls usually happen in the Religion and Theology Forum, but tonight it's been pretty peaceful in there.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

92. You will find that by far most of the people

on DU will either agree with your faith (there are actually a lot of Christians here) or treat you respectfully even though they disagree with you, and perhaps even bemoan the fact that your faith has been hijacked by a poltical party.

But you will find that there are a few individuals who don't do well with human interaction, (whether or not they were never taught manners and tolerance by their parents, or perhaps they are just a bit dim.) who use words like "stupid" and "insane" and "fairy tales." They appear to lack the ability to see the world in gray areas. I worry about them. Life is hard out there when you don't have people skills.

[Common Sense Party]

121. Thanks, TG. I was beginning to think I'd stepped into

a Twilight Zone.

I mean, the Talibornagain-types are annoying and dangerous with their hyper-faith.

At the same time, the anti-religion zealots are every bit as talibanesque with their kneejerk denunciations of anything related to God.

The truth is, as usual, somewhere in the middle.

[Hyernel]

60. It's safe to say you believe to a pollster...

....even if you don't.

Still...there are a lot of brainless, uneducated retards out there. Too bad. The human race could do so much better if it could only shed itself of it's absurd codependencies.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

90. But why would you lie about your beliefs to a pollster?

Tallahassee Grannie (Brainless, uneducated retard still unable to shed codependencies or any other pop psycho babble related tendancies)

[Hyernel]

95. Because you don't know who that pollster really is.

Is it a real pollster? Or is it some trouble maker trying to identify atheists for some reason. Atheism, which is a state of honest enlightenment, is one of those few opinions that is still difficult to be open about. I can do it because I'm a big, over confident s.o.b., who can verbally defend himself against any evangelical onslaught. But most people, I would guess, prefer to avoid the subject by just saying "Praise Gawd-uh!" And keep their actual beliefs private. (Which is best, of course)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

96. I guess you have a point that

perhaps some people might lie about it. I never considered that, really.

You definitely ARE confident about your belief or lack thereof.

As far as I can see, nobody knows for sure and nobody is going to know for sure until we pass on over.

[Hyernel]

97. Yes ma'am. Thank you ma'am!

[Hardrada]

68. I'm an atheist but blow off phone surveyors.

Guess that's a dumb fuck thing to do!

[beam me up scottie]

69. Yeah,

counting you might take us up to .4000001 % :evilgrin:

[papau]

76. "online" pannel result is 82%,, Pew phone survey is 87%

Here is actual data for 2002 PEW poll - 87% find religion important in US
Q.22 How important would you say religion is in your own life very important, fairly important, or not very
important?

Very Fairly Not very Don't know/
Important Important Important Refused
March, 2002 63 24 12 1=100
Mid-November, 2001 61 24 14 1=100
March, 2001 64 23 12 1=100
March, 2000 (Gallup) 61 27 12 *=100
June, 1998 (Gallup) 62 25 12 1=100
June, 1996 59 26 15 *=100
March, 1994 (Gallup) 59 29 11 1=100
March, 1988 (Gallup) 54 31 14 1=100
March, 1984 (Gallup) 56 30 13 1=100
April, 1978 (Gallup) 52 32 14 2=100
November, 1965 (Gallup) 70 22 7 1=100

[TallahasseeGrannie]

104. Answer truthfully for sure

if we're going to use these bloody polls! If we live in a world where you can't be an atheist, I want to get off and find an island somewhere.

[expatriot]

70. Wow. Aren't these numbers really low by historical measures?

I thought the number of "believers" in this country was above 90%, with self-defined "Christians" being 80-85%. These numbers seem encouraging to me given other polls I could have sworn to have seen.

[beam me up scottie]

72. I thought so.

Check out the data at this site: http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

[papau]

77. Latest Gallup is low 90's - Pew phone 2002 is 87%, "online" panel is 82%

Here is actual data for 2002 PEW poll - 87% find religion important in US
Q.22 How important would you say religion is in your own life very important, fairly important, or not very
important?

Very Fairly Not very Don't know/
Important Important Important Refused
March, 2002 63 24 12 1=100
Mid-November, 2001 61 24 14 1=100
March, 2001 64 23 12 1=100
March, 2000 (Gallup) 61 27 12 *=100
June, 1998 (Gallup) 62 25 12 1=100
June, 1996 59 26 15 *=100
March, 1994 (Gallup) 59 29 11 1=100
March, 1988 (Gallup) 54 31 14 1=100
March, 1984 (Gallup) 56 30 13 1=100
April, 1978 (Gallup) 52 32 14 2=100
November, 1965 (Gallup) 70 22 7 1=100

[Raine]

75. People are so mean, selfish and greedy

it's hard to believe that the majority of people believe in God. :-( I wish that they would take Jesus' teachings to heart and live those beliefs.

[CarbonDate]

108. Since when....

...has belief in gods ever precluded people from doing bad things?

[Trajan]

79. Count me in the 18 percent ....

Honesty keeps me in the minority .....

[Clarkansas]

91. I believe in God but I don't fault others who don't.

I hope everyone returns the same courtesy to me.

[Atman]

94. So the answer is to simply ignore the beliefs of 53,352,000 Americans

Did you catch that number? This might have made a much more interesting headline..."53,352,000 Americans do not believe in God."

That is a shitload of us. I've never heard any politician deliberately want to alienate/turn his back on that many people. Why is that? Why is it so easy to ignore 53,352,000 of your constituents? I don't get it.

[CarbonDate]

105. That means that 18% don't believe in God, yes?

Much higher than the 0.2% figure that's been bandied about....

[ozone_man]

110. And 70% is better than 89%

that believe in heaven from the other poll. I trust the PEW poll more than the ABC poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Beliefs/story?id=1422658

[Disturbed]

117. Does this mean that 82% also believe in Satan?

Hmmmm?

[ozone_man]

119. It says 60% believe in the devil.

Six out of 10 said there is a devil and hell exists as well, the poll revealed.

On the positive side, maybe it won't be so hard to convince them that Bush is the devil. :shrug: