I was indoctrinated into religion against my will as a child. Were you?

[eeyore]

Let me start by saying that this is not an anti-Catholic or anti-religion thread.

I was a precocious young thing, and rebelled against my Catholic upbringing very early on. I never believed the teachings of the church, even when I was in grade school - it just never made sense to me. I always felt like church was punishment for something that I hadn't done, like I was repenting for sins that I hadn't committed.

When a Catholic child reaches the teen years, they are eventually asked to go through confirmation. Confirmation is basically a ceremony where all the kids of a certain age, I was 14, make a pledge to Catholicism and become an adult in the church.

As I said, I never wanted to be Catholic, and told my parents this repeatedly. When it came time for me to be confirmed, I told them that I did not want to pledge to be a Catholic adult. I told them that I would be lying by going through the process, and wouldn't that be a sin to lie in front of God and everyone? Wouldn't that be incredibly hypocritical to be lying during one of the most holy ceremonies in the Catholic church?

My parents basically told me that I could choose to do whatever I wanted as an adult, but that I was required to do this for them - a family obligation. To this day, we have never fought over something a viciously as we did my confirmation.

I finally relented, and I don't feel like I was damaged by the process, but don't think I will ever get over the hypocrisy of being told to lie in a holy ceremony. I never wanted to be an adult Catholic, and yet I stood there and bullshitted all of the vows, mainly so that my parents wouldn't have to face the humiliation of having their child reject their religious values in a public way.

I'm interested to know if other people went through this sort of thing, Catholic or otherwise.
Do you still practice the religion of your upbringing?
Do you practice any religion at all?
Are you still bitter about it, or have you come to terms with it?

-eeyore

--edit for poor spelling-- :spank:

[Rob H.]

1. Nope. Never indoctrinated.

Both of my parents had parents who forced them to attend church when they were kids and they hated it. (My maternal grandfather would take my mom and her siblings to Sunday school but sit out in the parking lot and wait for them, even.) They were forward-thinking and open-minded enough to let my brother and me make up our own minds. Thanks, mom and dad. :)

[seabeyond]

2. nope. different times my parents tried church

i remember about 11, 12 we went to a youth program church and after a couple meetings told mom they are more mean than normal kids and they are church goers. not suppose to be like that. i always became more bothered at church, the opposite of what i was suppose to receive from religion

my parents never forced it

we did talk bible and jesus and god regularly in house. and my parents set the example on how to live

[triguy46]

3. When I was a kid, if I screwed up bad...

my parents would make me go to church. Now, they didn't go to church, they made me go with the neighbors!

[Bandit]

4. and I don't feel like I was damaged by the process,

I think it obviously had quite a psychological impact upon you or you would not be discussing it now. Maybe it did not turn you into a serial murderer but I sense you still hold a bit of resentment against your parents. Religion is a very powerful force in the world and often causes folks to do things they may regret later.

[eeyore]

11. LOL!

No, I'm not a serial murderer. I have a great relationship with my parents now. We just had a parting of opinions from that point on.

What really happened is that as I took the vow of confirmation out loud, I was silently taking a vow to not become an adult that cares what conservative society thinks.

:toast:

Thanks for worrying about my state of mind, though. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Nah

My parents were pretty cool about me and religion when I got more mature and could make up my own decisions about my faith. I did have chats with grandparents and all that but it was still my own decision(s). :) I always loved going to church as a child and enjoyed reading about Jesus and spending time with friends and all that. I was brought up in a Christian home and did enjoy it. My parents aren't fundies or anything like that thank goodness. They're very open (we all love various supernatural shows even and my dad is a deacon).

[eeyore]

6. I don't regret going to church, even though I didn't want to go

I think I learned a lot about society, ceremony and the pressures of conformity from going to church. I just didn't want to formally join the club when it came time make the choice.

I learned a lot from that experience about the pressure that my parents felt to appear a certain way in the community. It may have driven me further to be the staunch non-conformist that I am today.

I'm just not a joiner.

[Yollam]

7. I went to sunday school a time or two...

... but may parents were not really serious about it, and they're not the least upset that I grew up to be an atheist.

They are Christian in name, but almost never, ever go to church. I guess they hate organized religion as I do.

I guess the whole organized religion thing is very appealing to people who like to conform and be part of a group, and be told how to think and live...

[Cleita]

8. Yeah, I was sort of. Although baptized a Catholic and

sent to Catholic school when it was available, my mother actually let me go to different churches with friends including Jewish Temple. She thought I should sample different faiths although the Church would have disapproved if they found out. Somehow it never occurred to her that no religion could be an option.

[MadHound]

9. Hell you were lucky, I was double dipped

Mom's side of the family are Roman Catholic, Dad's side are Southern Baptists. Makes me either a Southern Catholic or a Roman Baptist. Either way, when I was a bright, outspoken twelve year old, I really started getting in theology, comparative religions, etc, and started asking both the priests and ministers some very uncomfortable(for them) questions. After being told to take things on faith once too many times, I finally gave up all organized religions, and have maintained that to this day.

[eeyore]

14. Double dipped!

That's hilarious. I knew kids who were the offspring of Catholic and Jewish parents. Talk about mixed up! Whew!

[KitchenWitch]

10. Yes

I was also raised in a Catholic family.

[eeyore]

15. And are you now Pagan?

Or just really mean in the kitchen?

I assume the former. :)

[KitchenWitch]

17. Pagan - Yes,

I am also a good cook!

[eeyore]

21. Well done! (no pun intended)

You went back to roots of all of the holidays that the Catholics coopted and bastardized for their own purposes. :toast:

[KitchenWitch]

26. Precisely, although I did not know it at the time!

I loved the ritual of the Catholic church, I just hated the doctrine.

[City of Mills]

12. I'm with you

Born into a Catholic family, went to church and CCD until 3rd grade. Made my first communion and that's as far as it went. I never got religion as a child, it seemed like punishment to me as well. I never liked being told what I should or shouldn't believe. I'm still working out issues from the experience.

[Neil Lisst]

13. Yes, and I've made them pay for it ever since!!

ah, nature

self-correcting, like a river bed

[Moochy]

16. Never Confirmed

I too was raised Catholic, and from my perspective, my catechism was very honest about the sacrament of confirmation. I suppose if my family had been more socially integrated into the parish and had been more image-conscious there might have been more pressure.

I didn't want go through my confirmation for the same reason you didnt want to go through yours. It wasn't a critical issue with my family. The other sacraments were mandatory, first communion, and confession. But I only went to confession once or twice after the mandatory ceremonial first one. I think I latched on to the optionality of both confirmation and confession and decided I had free will at a young age.

Just as a reference, my church was in the SF Bay Area, and I would have been confirmed around 1983-84.

[eeyore]

19. I remember trying hard to think of sins that I could confess.

My priest would be trying to convince me that I must have sinned somehow, and I really couldn't think of anything. Sometimes I would just make things up out of whole cloth just to get them off my back.

Is it a sin to lie about sinning in confession? :rofl:

I was confirmed right around the same time, only in a conservative town in Colorado.

:toast:

[Moochy]

20. Self-fulfilling prophecy

or manifest destiny?

It is a sin to lie about sinning in confession, and you get to go to confession next time. You can't get absolution for sins committed after you enter the magic box. :)

[eeyore]

22. Aha!

The beginning of the cycle of guilt: pressure a child into lying to a priest, then hold it over them - brilliant!

[Moochy]

24. Marketing 101 :)

Create a hole in the fragile ego of the consumer and fill it with what you are selling!

[hunter]

47. I probably shouldn't say this, but...

One of my kids had a grand time confessing. Our church did these confessions out in the open, assembly line fashion, with all the parents waiting in the pews.

My kid got to the priest, and they were talking, and talking, and talking... it went on forever and the kids left waiting in line were getting all fidgety, and still it went on and on and on...

Eventually the other kids' parents were glancing nervously towards me, and my kid and our priest were LAUGHING!

Part of me wanted to crawl away and die, but part of me was sorta proud.

Okay, now I go to hell.

[Betty]

18. I went to church every week until I was out of the house

at age 18. I went thru the confrimation process as well (Presbyterian). Never have gone back unless I am paid to be there (I am a profesional musician so I do play church gigs and weddings).

That being said, I didn't feel like it was a major burden, it just never spoke to me on any level, so when I was on my own, that was the end of it.

[Dem Agog]

23. Yes, 15 years of "Christian" school...

15 years of "Christian" school taught me what Christians were really about. The experience proved to me that there is no "God" and if there is, I want no part of any "superior being" like him.

(Edited: 15 years = 4 years pre-k, kindergarten and then 1-11th grades... I spent Monday through Friday on the church grounds at school. Stayed Wednesdays until 9PM through Wednesday night dinner and "worship", played basketball and soccer there on Saturdays. Sunday, morning and evening worship services. I spent more time on those church grounds than many hard-time felons spent in prison. This has probably contributed to... keep reading...)

Bitter? Well, I hate Christianity, when I find out someone is a Christian I am immediately suspicious of them and think that they are at best a little dimwitted, and I get a little sick to my stomach everytime I see those brainwashed freaks "worship their lord" in song on the television at the Uber Churches.

I think Christianity is a sickness, and a cult. I think that Jesus Christ was probably a pretty good guy, who really did exist in history. I think he managed to convince a lot of people he was the "son of God" but I also think he was probably either lying or a little crazy himself.

Regardless, I believe even he'd be repulsed by the cult his existence created. I know I am.

[eeyore]

28. I think Catholic is easier than Fundie

I never had my parents burn all of my rock and roll records or any such rot.

For the most part the Catholics I knew liked to party like hell on Saturday and ask for forgiveness on Sunday.

I just never wanted to officially join the club.

[Dem Agog]

31. At least Catholicism has history and tradition... Judaism too...

I respect Catholicism and Judaism more than the fundie-Christian crap. I went to Rome this summer and was in awe at the Vatican. I don't buy the religious bits, but the history and the tradition and the sheer fervor of the worshippers and pilgrims (yes, pilgrims, one man serenading the pope's apartment very early Saturday AM, another man in a shirt and tie on his knees praying in the middle of St. Peters)...

The passion was evident. I find that in Judaism too, and in fact dated a number of Jewish guys in my 20's. I appreciate those religions for their history and tradition.

Fundie Christians? The sick trash of western religion to me...

[scarlet_owl]

25. Nope. I was baptized and confirmed as an adult, completely

by my own choice. My parents always wanted their children to find their own spiritual paths.

[windlight]

27. ex-Lutheran here

and was forced to the confirmation classes... i don't remember much but what i did remember is thinking this was all BS and then having an argument with the pastor that what he is telling us is WRONG!! (that was fun, if i remember correctly he was telling us the earth is only some 6000 years old or something)

Luckily my parents weren't too into it and only had us going to church till i was 15 or 16 weekly and then twice a year till i was 19, and i haven't been back since...

[Matariki]

29. i thank god regularly that my parents were atheists ;-)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

30. Haha--When I was younger, my mother liekd me to go to "CCD."

I told her it was BS, and I've never been back. I am a proud "nothing"--that is, I do not believe that humanity can learn anything from any type of organized religion.

[Swamp Rat]

32. NO! Thank goddess!

"Booooorn freeeee, free as the wind blows..." :)

[eeyore]

34. Aren't you from NOLA?

You weren't taken out into the Bayou and forced to become a Voodoo Chile?

[hunter]

48. That's a lovely postcard to Khephra.

Peace be with you, Swamp Rat.

[mitchum]

33. Never....my parents let me quit going to church when I was 10...

after I found it all just a bit impossible to believe

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Yes and no

Yes in that my grandfather wanted us to go to his scary baptist church when we were little, but later I sent myself to a strictish Advent Christian church simply because that was where my friends went.

And I started dating and eventually married a Nazarene pastor's son.

So, I got myself stuck in indoctrination city, but I am no longer trying desperately to squeeze my foot into their glass slipper. I understand and worship God the way I see fit these days.

[funflower]

50. Congratulations on your emancipation, GreenPartyVoter.

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. Thanks :^)

[eeyore]

36. Damn it all I got moved to the Religion forum!

I thought this was a universal enough topic to remain in GD.

Oh well.....:spank:

[Karenina]

37. Confine such discussions to the basement!!!

:wow:

We were "high Episcopalion, JV Catholics." LOVED the pageantry but was never "at home" with the indoctrination. I simply couldn't relate. At 10, I finally refused to participate further after pummelling a Sunday School teacher in debate. HE was FURIOUS and wanted me PUNISHED. Our priest INSISTED that my mother take me to the library or temple or wherever I wanted to go and LEAVE ME ALONE in my search. He kept tabs on us both. We are friends to this day.

[nemo137]

56. sounds like a decent priest.

[Chovexani]

38. Recovering Evangelical, here

Dragged to an old-timey fire and brimstone Black church every Sunday, literally kicking and screaming sometimes. I loved the singing and stuff, but I just didn't see the point of any of it, none of what they were carrying on about had any relevance to my day-to-day life. Getting smacked by my mom when my Sunday School teacher told her I always made comparisons between Bible stories and the Greek myths I was learning in school didn't help matters.

I didn't really rebel though, they just had me really cowed. I was so desperate to be a Good Kid, mostly because I experienced feelings of alienation from a young age, that I was willing to do anything to gain my family's approval. That meant when they left the Baptist church and started going to an Evangelical megachurch when I was around 11 or 12, I went up during the altar call and got born again too. I never really connected with it, but I didn't start rebelling until I really got in deep and realized they were actively condemning just about everything that made me, well, me. The final straw was when I got kicked out of my youth group for asking too many questions (I didn't have enough faith and I was "damaging other kids' walk with the Lord" according to the youth pastor in charge). I've always been naturally curious and prone to ask a lot of questions, I just have a seeking nature I guess, and my brain simply can't process the idea that there is one, narrow way of spirituality.

I found Wicca at age 15 after doing a lot of seeking, and have been practicing ever since. I admit, though, I really struggle with feelings of bitterness toward born again Christianity just because of the crap I put up with in church, and also a LOT of very cruel harassment I endured from the born agains in high school (including a teacher who went to my old church, was BFF with my mom, and made my life a living hell). I find myself having very little tolerance for self-righteousness and even the nicest, most well-meaning born again Christians can have an air of smugness at times that just makes me want to scream. I know it's not right to judge them all by the narrow-minded pricks who gave me abuse, but...man, it's hard sometimes.

All I know is, if I ever have kids, I'm going with a hands-off approach. I'll expose them to many different faiths, just to understand that there's many different ways of looking at the world (tolerance is a good thing!), but I'm not going to pressure them to pick one, or even any at all. That kind of thing is too personal to try to push on someone.

[Maat]

39. I was taken to Laguna Presbyterian Church ..

when I was 15, I told my beloved paternal grandmother that I no longer would be attending. She was a bit upset.

I should add that I stayed with her for the majority of my youth (my paternal grandparents, that is). Since Grammie went, I went. They are the reason I'm fairly functional and well-adjusted.

I spent 30 years believing generally in a God, or Universal Consciousness, but not being part of an organized spiritual belief system.

A couple of years ago, I did some intensive research. I went to various churches, part of UU, Unity, United Church of Christ, Church of Religious Science, etc. I felt that their administrative orgs. and pastors held progressive views. I decided that the Church of Religious Science was for me, although I attend a UU church several times a year. I now belong to an interfaith group, made up of these welcoming and affirming individuals who attend these churches.

I don't think I bear any scars from attending when I was little.

My parents NEVER attended any church during my lifetime - my dad considered himself an atheist (he now has an Alzheimers-type disorder and doesn't think - I've adjusted to that fact).

[barb162]

40. Weren't just about all of us?

I was raised religuous and even went to a religious grammar school and it bothered the hell out of me at the time but I overcame it very easily and don't practice anymore. Yes I have come to terms with it. Parents raise you as they think they should...they try to do their best. It's as simple as that. They meant well.

[eeyore]

41. Of course...

They only wanted to do what they thought was best for me. I just had a mind of my own!

[barb162]

44. I know, I know

For about the latter half of the religious grammar school I really wanted out. I wish the school would have spent more time teaching science, math, etc., instead of religion. But then in high school I picked up huge amounts of that . I guess as they say, what's done is done.

:hi:

[NAO]

43. see my post below #42 for the same sentiment

and how I see things these days.

My parents are both gone now but while they were living and to this day I do not fault them in the least for bringing me up a fundamentalist Baptist. They believed it, and it was only natural for them to teach me those things.

[barb162]

45. uh-huh

Yeah, they did what they thought was right. Now I "fell away" from the religious teaching I had and my mother could never figure out why, even though I told her a million times (or did it just seem like a million times). My parents are gone too for many years now. It's funny, the school "indoctrinates" you as a little kid, day in and day out, but that doesn't mean it works. A lot of the kids in that school grew up to be non-religious just like me.
There is one thing about that school I went to though that maybe others didn't do. They had us visit on our own about 5 other religions of our choosing, like about 7th grade or whatever. So I went to Lutheran, Greek Orthodox and some other religions, and went to their service and talked to their ministers about the differences in their services and beliefs from what I learned. It was a very nice and educational experience.

[nemo137]

55. We went to service at a synagogue as part of my confirmation

I learned that it's alot like Evangelical Covenant church, at least structurally (prayer, song, scripture reading, song, prayer, sermon, prayer, song), only with better food after the service.

[Inland]

57. Yes, but instead of "being raised," say "repressed" or "indoctrinated".

It just sounds so much more interesting than saying that your were stuck with parents just like everyone else.

[Dervill Crow]

58. I wasn't, but I admit that I dragged my kids to church.

In the 1980s I became a born-again perfect Christian mom, i.e., republican. Thank god/dess it was just a phase.

[NAO]

42. Yes, but I wouldn't put it that way. My parents sincerely believed it

and so neither they nor I considered it "indoctrination" any more than teaching me that 2 + 2 = 4 is "arithmetic brainwashing" or telling me that if I jumped off a building I would fall to the ground is "shoving gravity down my throat".

Now unlike eeyore, I am unapologetically anti-religion. My threads are usually very harshly critical of religion. But that's because I believe that the tenants of religion are not true. It has nothing to do with how it was presented to me as a child and everything to do with the fact that it is talking about the way the world is - and the world is not that way.

I am of course referring to religions that make statements about the world - such as "this book was written by god" or "after death, some people go to heaven and others go to hell, based on whether they call god by the correct name" or "god created the universe and he is all powerful and all knowing". I have no beef with religions that are merely poetic or aesthetic responses to the world.

[freestyle]

46. Raised Episcopalian and have freely embraced it as an adult.

I went to same church as my mother and my grandparents and attended Sunday school, and was confirmed in due course. I also served as an altar boy and lay reader. I never felt pressured, and always appreciated the intellectualism of the Episcopal Church. I never really went far from the Church, and came to appreciate it far more as I embraced the fact that I am gay. I still attend most weeks and am active in several church organizations.

I doubt that the outcome would have been the same had I been raised in a more conservative denomination.

[nemo137]

49. Yes. I was also conditioned into Midwestern, working class, Euro-American

culture. Childrearing is, in basic terms, about indoctrinating children who have no say in the matter, into a set of norms and values. A child raised by Atheist parents is indoctrinated just as much as a child raised by Presbetyrians or Sikhs.

[immoderate]

51. My situation is similar, but Jewish.

My mother required me to attend services, because she wanted me there. I never bought it, but I had to go anyway.

I wasn't bitter, but I always resented it.

--IMM

[fenderbender89]

52. I know the feeling

Being confirmed as a Catholic two years ago, I still recall the letters my grandparents wrote to me prior to the ceremony, the pride in their words on the page made me feel uncomfortable for I had always questioned many of the things taught to me all throughout childhood. It was a family obligation and I had no say in the matter, so it did not bother me in the way it may bother others. Though this is what has to be kept in mind in matters such as these, an obligation is an obligation and God cannot punish one who performs one against his will, even in His Church.

Yet over time the vows, though not made to the fullest of my conviction, started to make more sense to me. I belive the cornerstone of all organized religion, especially Catholicism, is to love your fellow man and to practice charity, regardless of any oaths or other rituals conjured up by men. You know as well as any Catholic that ritual is a big part of the Church, yet to focus solely on the ritualistic aspect of any religion as opposed to the spiritual one is missing the point of that religion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. I was a preacher's kid (Lutheran), but church was just our way of life

It is when it's your dad's job. Our family year was the church year, beginning with Advent candle lighting at dinner.

It never felt any more forced to me than milking cows or collecting eggs is to a farmer's child.

As I grew older, I rethought my views several times, but as a member of a mainstream church (first ELCA Lutheran, then Episcopalian), I felt free to do that. Now I take much of the "hard to believe" stuff as allegory, and I value my association with the church for the opportunity it presents to get in touch with the divine, for the beauty of the worship service and music, for the opportunity to join forces with like-minded people to help others, and for the sense of community.